254 replies to this topic

[Raien]

But he just doesn't die, neither do the other Kokiri on the celebration. It was simply a lie that a Kokiri can't live outside the forest, is that so hard to accept? Look at the Koroks in TWW, do they die if they leave Forest Haven?!

Yes, it is hard to accept. After telling me that I am going against canon by suggesting that what the game tells us is not really true, you tell me that the Deku Tree lied despite him being a wise deity and with no reason to lie to the Kokiri. In other words, you are going against canon by your own rules.

The Great Deku Tree said that if a Kokiri leaves the woods, he or she will die!

However, thinking about the situation, I can accept the idea that the Great Deku Tree (or the Deku Tree Sprout) is able to grant the Kokiri the ability to walk outside of the Forest for the celebrations since it was he who gave life to the Kokiri and who ultimately controls the power of the Forest that the Kokiri were born from. If they leave the Deku Tree's protection without receiving his power, then they die.

Edited by jhurvid, 02 November 2006 - 06:58 PM.

[Jumbie]

you tell me that the Deku Tree lied despite him being a wise deity and with no reason to lie to the Kokiri.

I've already given so many reasons for the Tree telling them a fairytale (heh fairytale, how ironic). So it's necessary to quote myself? Ok then:

for their own safety! Nothing happens to a Kokiri outside the forest, except for the chance that they might be killed by a Giant Peahat or a Stalchild. Also, the Deku Tree won't have been that keen on revealing the existence of his little forest sprite helpers to the Hylian people.

Also, what about the following, feel like countering it somehow?

Look at the Koroks in TWW, do they die if they leave Forest Haven?!

You shouldn't try to pull the joker of saying Kokiri were something different from Koroks, cause if you did, you'd lose right away

However, thinking about the situation, I can accept the idea that the Great Deku Tree (or the Deku Tree Sprout) is able to grant the Kokiri the ability to walk outside of the Forest for the celebrations since it was he who gave life to the Kokiri and who ultimately controls the power of the Forest that the Kokiri were born from. If they leave the Deku Tree's protection without receiving his power, then they die.

I don't agree with this at all, but even if it was as you say, the Deku Tree would still be a big liar if he let them live although he earlier promised to let them die. Either way, you have to accept that the wooden sign is wrong!

Edited by Jumbie, 02 November 2006 - 07:19 PM.

[Fyxe]

The Great Deku Tree said that if
a Kokiri leaves the woods, he or
she will die!

It's never actually said how or why or when they will die. It's open to interpretation. Who knows, it may be down to the Deku Tree's age - and the new Deku Tree may be stronger and better able to allow them to live beyond the forest.

Who knows. Who cares. It's never explicitly stated that they would drop dead at the instant they leave, so when we see them in Lon Lon Ranch, we assume they are able to be there, else, well, they wouldn't be there.

[CID Farwin]

Approximately 17 Thank Yous have officially been sent to Jumbie for saying the exact thing that I was about to. namely:

Look at the Koroks in TWW, do they die if they leave Forest Haven?!

Anyway, has anyone considered this:

There was a time that Kokiri used to roam freely about the land of hyrule. One day, tragically, one DIED! The deku tree then ordered the Kokiri back to Kokiri forest, and the sign of question was then made.

[Raien]

I've already given so many reasons for the Tree telling them a fairytale (heh fairytale, how ironic). So it's necessary to quote myself? Ok then:

Yes you have a reason, but it requires us to dismiss literal evidence, which as you and Arturo made quite clear goes against the rules of canon. To explain the inconsistency can only, admittedly, be achieved with speculation but when you ask to ignore a specific statement without appropriate validation beyond simple speculation, that is a step too far for me.

Also, what about the following, feel like countering it somehow?

If I am arguing that the Deku Tree can grant his power to extend the reach of Forest power, then it does not need to be countered.

I don't agree with this at all, but even if it was as you say, the Deku Tree would still be a big liar if he let them live although he earlier promised to let them die. Either way, you have to accept that the wooden sign is wrong!

You have my theory wrong. As spirits of the Forest, the Kokiri are tied to the forest, so when they leave, they lose their connection to the forest and die. The Great Deku Tree tells them this to keep them from dying. However, the Great Deku Tree is the father of the Kokiri (the one who gave life to them) so it is possible that he can grant his power to let the Kokiri survive beyond the forest.

Think about it like this. Every major power in the world is symbolised by a single individual and ancestry from which the individual is descended from. Link (the Hero) possesses the power of Courage as do the Knights of Hyrule. Princess Zelda possesses the power of Wisdom as do the Sages. In this sense, the Deku Tree possesses the power of Forest and the Kokiri also possess that power in a secondary form; so if the Deku Tree extended the power of Forest beyond that which he resides in, the Kokiri/Koroks should be able to travel beyond the forest as well and plant trees to make the power even stronger. "Forests hold great power..."

I do not accept that a character lies unless this is openly stated as such through some form of quote. This explanation I hold to have greater reliability because it takes into account the power that is possessed by the Forest Spirits and it does not contradict the script.

Edited by jhurvid, 02 November 2006 - 08:48 PM.

[Fyxe]

I do not accept that a character lies unless this is openly stated as such through some form of quote.

That's foolish. Many characters are insinuated to lie or to not tell the whole truth throughout the series. Sometimes they are proved wrong through other dialogue, sometimes they are proved wrong through some sort of visual occurance. This is an issue of the latter. Actually, it's not even that, because we don't hear what the Deku Tree said, we hear it from another Kokiri.

There are also occasions where characters are strongly hinted at lying despite never being told openly that they are. Tingle, for instance, is someone who does this quite often.

[Raien]

That's foolish. Many characters are insinuated to lie or to not tell the whole truth throughout the series. Sometimes they are proved wrong through other dialogue, sometimes they are proved wrong through some sort of visual occurance. This is an issue of the latter. Actually, it's not even that, because we don't hear what the Deku Tree said, we hear it from another Kokiri.

When there is evidence of insinuation of lying, I will accept it. Give me one good reason considering that the Deku Tree is so wise and revered that he should lie to the Kokiri about death.

There are also occasions where characters are strongly hinted at lying despite never being told openly that they are. Tingle, for instance, is someone who does this quite often.

Where exactly? Tingle is incredibly greedy but he's never really lied about anything, has he?

[Showsni]

Give me one good reason considering that the Deku Tree is so wise and revered that he should lie to the Kokiri about death.

He loves the Kokiri and doesn't want to risk them going outside his protection where anything could happen to them? Try reading some fairytales. "Don't wander off the path in the forest, or a wolf will eat you." "Don't pick flowers that aren't yours, or a ferocious beast will imprison you." "Don't go too near the lake, or Jenny Greenteeth will kill you." And so on. Stories told by loving parents to protect their children. Not necessarily true, but likely to have a deeper impact.

[Jumbie]

Give me one good reason considering that the Deku Tree is so wise and revered that he should lie to the Kokiri about death.

Well, take it from Showsni, exactly what I meant.
Also, maybe the Deku Tree just said, "Kokiri cannot live outside of the Forest", which would be a very ambiguous statement. It's perfectly true, a Kokiri doesn't find any livelihood outside the forest, so they cannot live there. But this doesn't mean they are automatically dying if they leave. Possibly the Kokiri thought, "We cannot live outside? Then we'd probably die outside."

Where exactly? Tingle is incredibly greedy but he's never really lied about anything, has he?

In TWW, his whole dialogue is full of lies. "My tower rotates through a very special form of magic", when he is really keeping slaves to rotate it. Or even earlier, when he claims not to have stolen the pictograph box, although all the evidence, e.g. the former owner's account, stand against Tingle.

[Ogmios22188]

I think you guys are looking at this far too literally. As we've seen, the Kokiri don't age. At least, not while in Kokiri Forest. Kokiri Forest can be interpreted as a kind of Garden of Eden. While Adam and Eve were there, they were immortal. When they were expelled, they were doomed to die. Perhaps if the Kokiri leave the Forest, they will begin to age normally and die eventually. It doesn't have anything to die with dying instantly or being hunted and killed by monsters, but they'll die like everything else does: in time.

[Raien]

Well, take it from Showsni, exactly what I meant. Also, maybe the Deku Tree just said, "Kokiri cannot live outside of the Forest", which would be a very ambiguous statement. It's perfectly true, a Kokiri doesn't find any livelihood outside the forest, so they cannot live there. But this doesn't mean they are automatically dying if they leave. Possibly the Kokiri thought, "We cannot live outside? Then we'd probably die outside."

Look there are two ways of going about this.

1) We speculate an answer that directly contradicts what the game tells us.
2) We speculate an answer that doesn't contradict at all what the game tells us.

The explanation that I have since devised claims the high ground and actually follows the same pattern for Forest that the other main powers in Hyrule follow, such as Courage and Wisdom. When I've got the time, I'm going to make a new topic to elaborate this concept.

In TWW, his whole dialogue is full of lies. "My tower rotates through a very special form of magic", when he is really keeping slaves to rotate it. Or even earlier, when he claims not to have stolen the pictograph box, although all the evidence, e.g. the former owner's account, stand against Tingle.

As I said, when there is evidence of lying, the lies are made clear. Tingle lied about the Pictobox and we found out the truth from the reliable Pictobox owner.

Also, Tingle is mad so you have to take that into account when he starts ejaculating about fairies.

Edited by jhurvid, 03 November 2006 - 06:11 AM.

[Arturo]

This debate is ridiculous if you ask me

If we are told that kokiris die if they go outside the forest
And we see them outside the forest

It means that they don't die if they go outside of the forest

It may be a misinterpretation by the Kokiris, a faitytale or whatever (though i prefer the afirytale option, after all, they are children)

[Ogmios22188]

I think you guys should read my previous post.

[Raien]

If we are told that kokiris die if they go outside the forest
And we see them outside the forest

It means that they don't die if they go outside of the forest

Or that the Kokiri would normally die if they leave the forest unless they had some form of protection from the Deku Tree who created them, which would not contradict the text. To claim that the text is wrong goes against your own rules of canon.

Edited by jhurvid, 03 November 2006 - 11:39 AM.

[Jumbie]

Or that the Kokiri would normally die if they leave the forest unless they had some form of protection from the Deku Tree who created them, which would not contradict the text. To claim that the text is wrong goes against your own rules of canon.

If someone said the moon was a cube, and you'd look at the night sky and see that it's really a ball, which explanation would appear more logical to you:
- that the moon had always been a ball, and the statement was simply a lie,
- or that the moon was once a cube and has now transformed into a ball?

[Raien]

If someone said the moon was a cube, and you'd look at the night sky and see that it's really a ball, which explanation would appear more logical to you:
- that the moon had always been a ball, and the statement was simply a lie,
- or that the moon was once a cube and has now transformed into a ball?

You're misunderstanding my argument. Let's say that there's a room with a cake in it, but there's a laser grid blocking you from reaching the cake. You are told that you can't get to the cake because the laser will kill you if you do. But on Christmas day, the manager decides that you deserve it, so he gives you a suit that's resistant to the laser, allowing you to step through without dying.

The Kokiri would normally die if they left the Forest, but if the Deku Tree gave them his power to leave the Forest without dying, they could then celebrate Hyrule's peace with everyone else.

Edited by jhurvid, 05 November 2006 - 05:24 PM.

[Jumbie]

You're misunderstanding my argument. Let's say that there's a room with a cake in it, but there's a laser grid blocking you from reaching the cake. You are told that you can't get to the cake because the laser will kill you if you do. But on Christmas day, the manager decides that you deserve it, so he gives you a suit that's resistant to the laser, allowing you to step through without dying.

The Kokiri would normally die if they left the Forest, but if the Deku Tree gave them his power to leave the Forest without dying, they could then celebrate Hyrule's peace with everyone else.

Now, and what actually makes you so sure that your example is at work with the Kokiri issue, and not mine?
See, mine leans towards Ockham, assuming the easiest possibility is the solution, while yours takes a plot point for granted which we're never told of, namely the Deku Sprout giving the Kokiri the ability to survive outside.

You require a fan theory, whereas I only need to claim the Deku Tree gave his children a slightly twisted image of the outside world.

[Arturo]

And also, do you think the sprout could have magic to protect his children when they are so far away? I doubt it.

[Ogmios22188]

I think you guys are looking at this far too literally. As we've seen, the Kokiri don't age. At least, not while in Kokiri Forest. Kokiri Forest can be interpreted as a kind of Garden of Eden. While Adam and Eve were there, they were immortal. When they were expelled, they were doomed to die. Perhaps if the Kokiri leave the Forest, they will begin to age normally and die eventually. It doesn't have anything to die with dying instantly or being hunted and killed by monsters, but they'll die like everything else does: in time.

I guess you guys somehow missed it or ignored it, but there it is.

[Raien]

Now, and what actually makes you so sure that your example is at work with the Kokiri issue, and not mine?
See, mine leans towards Ockham, assuming the easiest possibility is the solution, while yours takes a plot point for granted which we're never told of, namely the Deku Sprout giving the Kokiri the ability to survive outside.

You require a fan theory, whereas I only need to claim the Deku Tree gave his children a slightly twisted image of the outside world.

Your claim that the Deku Tree told a big fat lie is also a fan theory, so you can't claim the high ground in that respect. Now let me explain why I consider my explanation in the right.

To begin with, the main inconsistency that I find with your theory is the Great Deku Tree's personality. From the script, everything suggests that he is a wise old Sage; someone who has been alive since the dawn of time. He understood that Link would be destined to defeat evil from looking upon him and that he should meet Zelda to accomplish destiny. Then we have the fact that the Kokiri trust every word he says. As the Deku Tree's children, the Kokiri obey him devotedly and rarely go against his wishes. As someone so wise and so loving to the Kokiri, the Deku Tree would have trusted that the Kokiri would not venture from the forest if he told them not to, so why should he lie to them? What reason is there to make up a complete lie when he trusts that they would follow the truth anyway? As further evidence of this, the Deku Tree in TWW trusted the Koroks not to enter the Forsaken Woods. He could have told the Koroks that they'd die if they entered the Forsaken Woods but he told them the truth. Makar broke that trust but the trust existed all the same.

Now, lets look at my interpretation. To begin with, the power of "Forest" that which the Deku Tree and his reincarnation, the Deku Tree Sprout, possesses is tremendous. The fact that he gave life to all the forest spirits and the Kokiri themselves, who are forest spirits in human form, is just one example of his power. The power has also warded against outsiders who might have come to claim that which could destroy the order of the world (i.e. my interpretation is the Spiritual Stone for which the Triforce could be claimed). It was not enough to stand up to Ganondorf but it was strong enough for others.

That's because the Great Deku Tree is our father, the forest guardian, and he gave life to all us Kokiri!

For so long, the Kokiri Forest, the source of life, has stood as a barrier, deterring outsiders and maintaining the order of the world...

Then, if we look at TWW's script, we know that the Great Deku Tree is able to build entire forests from single magical seeds, once they have been planted by the Koroks. The Great Deku Tree states that the forests will join the islands into one as they grow.

Great Deku Tree! This year you have once again produced some splendid seeds! With these seeds, we will continue to spread new forests across the Great Sea.

Every year after the Koroks perform this ceremony, they fly off to the distant islands on the sea and plant my seeds in the hopes that new forests will grow. Forests hold great power--they can change one tiny island into a much larger island. Soon, a day will come when all the islands are one, connected by earth and grove. And the people who live on that great island will be able to join hands and, together, create a better world.

Considering the magnitude of such power, and the Kokiri were created and are made of this power, then is it really so unreasonable that the Deku Tree Sprout would not grant the Kokiri the ability to join in the celebrations through his power; the power of Forest?

As a side note, the real reason why the Kokiri are not allowed to leave the forest in OoT is that if they could leave the forest as they wished, the feeling of discovering a strange new world for the first time would be subdued since undoubtedly the Kokiri would have left the forest beforehand. Taking the player's perspective into account this is the main reason why the Kokiri are not allowed to leave the forest.

Edited by jhurvid, 06 November 2006 - 12:54 PM.

[Chaltab]

It could be something like the Biblical story of the Garden of Eden--God said that if Adam and Eve partook of the fruit of the Tree, they would 'surely die'...

And they died, but not immediately. According to the Bible they continued to live for 900 something years afterwards. Perhaps similarly, the Kokiri would be immortal in the Forest, but if they left, they would SLOWLY die off.

[Jumbie]

Your claim that the Deku Tree told a big fat lie is also a fan theory, so you can't claim the high ground in that respect.

I don't consider my claim a theory. It's based on the simplest premise: a worded statement is being disproven by visual evidence. If LionHarted can argue like that, I may too.

As someone so wise and so loving to the Kokiri, the Deku Tree would have trusted that the Kokiri would not venture from the forest if he told them not to, so why should he lie to them?

Wrong. The Kokiri can't be trusted to always act reasonable, they have the minds of children after all. If he had really trusted them never to be curious, he wouldn't be wise but a blithering fool. Some good advice for raising kids: scare them and they'll behave!

He could have told the Koroks that they'd die if they entered the Forsaken Woods but he told them the truth. Makar broke that trust but the trust existed all the same.

Well these Woods are Forbidden, not Forsaken. And the name actually has a meaning. The Deku Tree forbade the Koroks to go there, seeing as there is lifedanger in there. Now the Koroks are not trapped in the bodies of children anymore, so the Tree has no need to lie to them. While it was too unsafe to kindly ask the Kokiri kids not to leave the forest, it is now a lot safer to ask the Koroks not to go to the Woods. And still Makar flies across them and falls, and it's no surprise that he turns out to be the youngest of the bunch.

Edited by Jumbie, 06 November 2006 - 04:50 PM.

[Raien]

I don't consider my claim a theory. It's based on the simplest premise: a worded statement is being disproven by visual evidence. If LionHarted can argue like that, I may too.

But does the visual evidence contradict the worded statement in the way that you assume it does? If an alternative explanation can be found that fits with the context of the event, then that is accepted. But if the alternative contradicts the context, then a second alternative that takes context into account should be used.

Wrong. The Kokiri can't be trusted to always act reasonable, they have the minds of children after all. If he had really trusted them never to be curious, he wouldn't be wise but a blithering fool. Some good advice for raising kids: scare them and they'll behave!

Sorry, where is the evidence that they can't be trusted? You're basing that all on your own assumptions, not on the text, where the evidence shows a responsible group of children. They were running a shop, they had houses and gardens and they helped each other out with everyday things. How can they be responsible enough to peacefully build their own society and yet not responsible enough to be trusted with stepping outside the forest? That sounds totally inconsistent. In fact, although they appear in the form of children, the Kokiri are actually Forest Spirits in human form so it cannot be assumed that their characteristics are identical to human children at all.

Well these Woods are Forbidden, not Forsaken. And the name actually has a meaning. The Deku Tree forbade the Koroks to go there, seeing as there is lifedanger in there. Now the Koroks are not trapped in the bodies of children anymore, so the Tree has no need to lie to them. While it was too unsafe to kindly ask the Kokiri kids not to leave the forest, it is now a lot safer to ask the Koroks not to go to the Woods. And still Makar flies across them and falls, and it's no surprise that he turns out to be the youngest of the bunch.

Forsaken was an error on my part, I meant Forbidden.

And also, how does the transition from human form to tree form make them any more responsible? If anything, they showed themselves as more childish than ever. They hid behind the Deku Tree when Link walked in, as children do for protection, and Makar irresponsibly got too close to the Forbidden Woods; an action that the Kokiri never imitated. This is not to say the Koroks were all irresponsible because they were able to perform the ceremony and spread the Deku Tree's seeds to far-off islands that were full of danger.

In other words, your argument that the Deku Tree would not tell the Kokiri the truth when they were obviously responsible enough to handle it is BS. The Deku Tree trusted the Koroks with the truth because he trusted them with the responsibility and they were more childish in nature than their human predecessors.

Edited by jhurvid, 06 November 2006 - 05:47 PM.

[Ogmios22188]

It could be something like the Biblical story of the Garden of Eden--God said that if Adam and Eve partook of the fruit of the Tree, they would 'surely die'...

And they died, but not immediately. According to the Bible they continued to live for 900 something years afterwards. Perhaps similarly, the Kokiri would be immortal in the Forest, but if they left, they would SLOWLY die off.

That's exactly what I said, but they seem incapable of listening to reason.

Edited by Ogmios22188, 06 November 2006 - 09:28 PM.

[LionHarted]

a worded statement is being disproven by visual evidence. If LionHarted can argue like that, I may too.

That the Kokiri will die if they leave the forest is never once contradicted by visual evidence. We see them outside of the forest, yet it can be assumed that they return there eventually--it is their home, after all. Also, the same Kokiri that delivers the idea that the Kokiri will die when they leave the forest makes the following quote after you return:

Oh, you're OK? You didn't leave the forest after all, did you?

Obviously Link left the forest--he's headed down the road that leaves the forest, and he's been gone for days. So this is probably a mistranslation--or "leaving" means leaving permanently.

The Kokiri can't be trusted to always act reasonable, they have the minds of children after all.

This is a nice assumption, but, in the end, it's only speculation.

[Jumbie]

But does the visual evidence contradict the worded statement in the way that you assume it does? If an alternative explanation can be found that fits with the context of the event, then that is accepted. But if the alternative contradicts the context, then a second alternative that takes context into account should be used.

It's just that for me there's never been a doubt about that the Deku Tree gave them an over-exaggerated warning. I wouldn't have come up with the idea of the Deku Sprout giving them new abilities in a hundred years of thinking, so you should see that this idea doesn't automatically pop up in everyone's mind, and is therefore not evident enough to be at work in OoT.
...And before you ask, yes I do think the vast majority of players realized that it was meant to be a lie that Kokiri die outside the forest.

How can they be responsible enough to peacefully build their own society and yet not responsible enough to be trusted with stepping outside the forest? That sounds totally inconsistent. In fact, although they appear in the form of children, the Kokiri are actually Forest Spirits in human form so it cannot be assumed that their characteristics are identical to human children at all.

You have no point there. The fact that children might live together in an organized, non-chaotic way doesn't mean they aren't curious enough to disregard a warning. Although the Kokiri are of course forest spirits in truth, they are represented as children for a reason. It's not only their appearance, but their entire way of thinking and emotions. OoT makes this clear very well. We all know that children are most likely to just disregard rules that aren't connected to sufficiently threatening consequences.

And also, how does the transition from human form to tree form make them any more responsible?

In that they've assumed their true form now.

If anything, they showed themselves as more childish than ever. They hid behind the Deku Tree when Link walked in, as children do for protection,

They're not more childish, they're just more timid, which children don't necessarily have to be. Children can as well be careless and oblivious to danger, as are the Kokiri. Did you see one Kokiri hide away when Adult Link stepped into their village? Well ok, they were in their houses, but they hid from the monsters and not from a human stranger that stopped by. This has to do with typical forest spirits always hiding away, and typical children not necessarily being afraid.

Makar irresponsibly got too close to the Forbidden Woods; an action that the Kokiri never imitated.

Well, the Kokiri couldn't fly. Trust me, they would've flown off all across the Haunted Wasteland if only they could! No honestly, where could the Kokiri have trespassed? They weren't in life danger in the Lost Woods (Mido, Saria and the blonde girl entered), and they didn't leave the Kokiri Forest for the sake of the Deku Tree's warning words. Now *this* has to do with fear, and not with responsibility.

In other words, your argument that the Deku Tree would not tell the Kokiri the truth when they were obviously responsible enough to handle it is BS. The Deku Tree trusted the Koroks with the truth because he trusted them with the responsibility and they were more childish in nature than their human predecessors.

See, our understandings of the Kokiri's and Koroks' attributes are completely flipped around. I say that children are childish and plants are reliable, and you claim the complete opposite, no idea where you're taking that from...

That's exactly what I said, but they seem incapable of listening to reason.

I didn't consider this because I have my own explanation for why the Kokiri are forest spirits that look like children. An explanation that is given in TWW. Anyway, as such I don't like the Kokiri to die of old age unless it's stated in a canon source.
The Deku Tree exaggerating is the most simple and most harmless solution to why the Kokiri don't die outside the forest. Period.

Obviously Link left the forest--he's headed down the road that leaves the forest, and he's been gone for days. So this is probably a mistranslation--or "leaving" means leaving permanently.

Pff, nothing mistranslation! That kid acts in the most logical way: he knows Link disobeyed the order to stay inside the forest, for which he was assumed to die, but evidently has survived it, so he jumps to the most plausible conclusion of that Link didn't leave in the first place.
Heh, funny that I have to specifically point this out to you, but this was actually one of countless subtle comical quotes in OoT - a Kokiri assuming Link didn't leave at all just because his expected death didn't occur!

Edited by Jumbie, 07 November 2006 - 02:01 PM.

[Raien]

1) You probably made that interpretation because Link left the forest without dying and he wasn't told he was Hylian until halfway through the game. Since interpretation is so mixed however, we need to start using the in-game evidence.

2) The text never says that the Koroks are the Kokiri's "true" forms. You made that up assumption on your own. The reason that their new form can fly is to accomplish the Deku Tree's mission on the Great Sea.

3) When the Kokiri never disobey the Great Deku Tree, that implies responsibility, not irresponsibility, even with the possibility to disobey his orders. One of the Koroks, Makar, did disobey the Great Deku Tree. There is no definite connection between the forms of the Kokiri and their responsibility.

Edited by jhurvid, 07 November 2006 - 03:06 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

1) No he didn't.

2) Yes it does.

[LionHarted]

Although the Kokiri are of course forest spirits in truth, they are represented as children for a reason.

I'm kind of curious where you got this. It's not in the text dump.

2) Yes it does.

If you're going to lie, at least fabricate some evidence to go along with it.

Once upon a time, long ago, the Koroks
took on human forms, but when they came
to live on the sea, they took these shapes.

The Koroks once had human forms. They take tree forms because they came to live on the sea.

[Raien]

I'm kind of curious where you got this. It's not in the text dump.

It's in the exact same quote in TWW that says the Koroks were once human.