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Storyline Article: Defense of the Split Timeline theory


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#241 LionHarted

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 10:11 AM

Yes, in the animation where Link goes out of the Forest. He crosses the bridge, and suddenly Saria appears behind him

That's not a storyline factor. That's, again, a graphical factor. Unless you see it actually referenced in-game, any storyline relevance you place on little meaningless things such as this are your own emphasis.

Should the fact that MM's monkeys disappear after leaving Koume's grotto, or that the HMS vanishes when he walks towards Clock Town, or that the Deku Scrubs in OoT's Deku Tree scamper off without using any doors, also be considered storyline-significant?

#242 Arturo

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 10:18 AM

It's not the same. Link doesn't see her because she's invisible. She suddenly appears when speaks to Link. And you can't say it's a graphical thing because that shouldn't happen during cutscenes. And it does.

#243 LionHarted

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 10:21 AM

It's not the same. Link doesn't see her because she's invisible. She suddenly appears when speaks to Link. And you can't say it's a graphical thing because that shouldn't happen during cutscenes. And it does.

The exit to the forest is on a bridge. They could have had her hide, but that'd be impossible to pull off due to the graphical and environmental limitations.

And the HMS thing I'm talking about happens during a cutscene.

#244 Hero of Legend

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 12:45 PM

Once again, I'm not saying the Kokiri can't turn invisible--I'm saying they were granted the ability for graphics reasons, and it was subsequently used as a story-telling tool.

So?

And invisibility is not a sign of not being incoporeal. Lots of very solid objects in Zelda can be invisible, and not just living things. Remember all those platforms you can only see with the Lens of Truth?

The're forest spirits. Their bodies are corporeal, but the're still effing magical beings. And faries are not ethereal, BTW. For one, Navi hits her head on a fence in the opening cutscene, not to mention all the fairy interaction in MM.

That's not a storyline factor. That's, again, a graphical factor.

That's, again, bullshit. I.e. you made it up.

Unless you see it actually referenced in-game, any storyline relevance you place on little meaningless things such as this are your own emphasis.

Oh, so now you get to deside what is canon?

The exit to the forest is on a bridge. They could have had her hide, but that'd be impossible to pull off due to the graphical and environmental limitations.

Way to ignore what I said.

And the HMS thing I'm talking about happens during a cutscene.

That's because he DOES dissapear that way. He teleports. And don't tell me that's impossible because loads of characters do it.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 15 November 2006 - 12:45 PM.


#245 LionHarted

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 01:28 PM

That's because he DOES dissapear that way. He teleports. And don't tell me that's impossible because loads of characters do it.

Prove it. Prove that this has storyline significance, and is not just a graphical factor.

Edited by LionHarted, 15 November 2006 - 01:29 PM.


#246 Sentient

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 01:46 PM

The reason the Kokiri fade away as you walk away from them is due to the N64's memory. Ocarina of Time's overworld was huge, and there was a lot of information that had to be stored on the cart, so they disappear at a certain distance to save memory and loading times. Ever wonder why Hyrule Market and Castle look the same as they did from the outside in both the child and adult bits of the game? Because the N64 didn't have the memory to change it to look like Ganon's Castle and a ruined Market as an adult.

That's, again, bullshit. I.e. you made it up.

You made up the bit about the disappearing Kokiri serving a gameplay and storyline purpose. You have yet to give ANY evidence of this, and LionHarted has the right reasons for saying that it isn't for gameplay or storyline purposes. The N64 didn't have the memory, that's all. Nothing more.

#247 Hero of Legend

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 03:30 PM

Prove it. Prove that this has storyline significance, and is not just a graphical factor.

It is a special effect applied by Nintendo to make characters 'mysteriously' appear/disappear. It is, for instance, used when the Skull Kid apparently materializes out of thin air in the beginning of the game. Furthermore, it is a part of the game, and we must assume what we see in the game is canon. The burden of evidence lies on you to prove it is not.

The reason the Kokiri fade away as you walk away from them is due to the N64's memory.

"Prove it."

Ocarina of Time's overworld was huge, and there was a lot of information that had to be stored on the cart, so they disappear at a certain distance to save memory and loading times. Ever wonder why Hyrule Market and Castle look the same as they did from the outside in both the child and adult bits of the game? Because the N64 didn't have the memory to change it to look like Ganon's Castle and a ruined Market as an adult.

Nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

You made up the bit about the disappearing Kokiri serving a gameplay and storyline purpose.

I never said it was for gameplay purposes, and it is used in a storyline related event.

You have yet to give ANY evidence of this, and LionHarted has the right reasons for saying that it isn't for gameplay or storyline purposes.

WTF? Read what I say before you post.

The N64 didn't have the memory, that's all. Nothing more.

Nintendo made it part of the story, that's all. Nothing more.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 15 November 2006 - 03:34 PM.


#248 CID Farwin

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 04:19 PM

That's not a storyline factor. That's, again, a graphical factor. Unless you see it actually referenced in-game, any storyline relevance you place on little meaningless things such as this are your own emphasis.

did you seriously post this you little hypocrite!?

Regardless of why, the Kokiri dissapear when you get far enough away. This is a property of the kokiri because that's what Nintendo decided to do. If not, then they could easily have changed the "graphical limitation" on the GC version.

Prove it. Prove that this has storyline significance, and is not just a graphical factor.

If it had no significance, then the camera could have simply moved away from him walking away, and then later he's gone!

The exit to the forest is on a bridge. They could have had her hide, but that'd be impossible to pull off due to the graphical and environmental limitations.

They could have had her hide the same lame way Shiek does!

Edited by CID Farwin, 15 November 2006 - 04:34 PM.


#249 Chaltab

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 04:50 PM

Wait, when did I say the Kokiri weren't magical beings? They're immortal and stay children forever. Of course they're magical beings. I just don't think they're fairies.

#250 Arturo

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 03:23 PM

THIS IS RIDICULOUS

Kokiris disappear in a way none of the others do. They disappear in short distances and even in cut scenes. Saying that N64 didn't have the memory is just false, because none of the people from other races disappera at that distance. If it were just for memory, they wouldn't disappear in cutscenes.

#251 Raien

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 03:59 PM

THIS IS RIDICULOUS

Kokiris disappear in a way none of the others do. They disappear in short distances and even in cut scenes. Saying that N64 didn't have the memory is just false, because none of the people from other races disappera at that distance. If it were just for memory, they wouldn't disappear in cutscenes.


How is it then that the Kokiri disappear but their fairies don't? If you move just beyond the point that the Kokiri disappear, the fairies are still in full view. Surely the fairies would follow wherever the Kokiri went...

Although it could be taken as symbolic, the general fade-out at certain distances implies graphics rather than storyline. If there was a reference to the disappearance in the form of text, then we could establish it as definite.

Edited by jhurvid, 16 November 2006 - 04:05 PM.


#252 Arturo

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 04:17 PM

I don't say they move, that they teleport. I just say that they don't disappear just for technical reasons. If it was for technical reasons, the fairies would diesappear, and other people, like the ones in Kakariko would as well.

#253 Raien

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 04:30 PM

I don't say they move, that they teleport. I just say that they don't disappear just for technical reasons. If it was for technical reasons, the fairies would diesappear, and other people, like the ones in Kakariko would as well.


So, if the Kokiris disappear but the fairies don't, it makes no sense graphics wise.
But if the Kokiris disappear and the fairies don't, it makes no sense plotline wise.

Conclusion: it doesn't matter.

#254 Chaltab

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 07:54 PM

Agreed. We've spent way too long arguing a totally non-essential point.

#255 CID Farwin

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 07:12 PM

Agreed. We've spent way too long arguing a totally non-essential point.

WWWAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYY to long. Should we get back to the previous argument abandoned halfway down page 5?

So, if the Kokiris disappear but the fairies don't, it makes no sense graphics wise.
But if the Kokiris disappear and the fairies don't, it makes no sense plotline wise.

If I may, I thought Kokiri and their fairies were different. Who said the fairies have to dissapear, only the Kokiri dissapear. Anyway,

Conclusion: it doesn't matter.

I really couldn't have put it better myself.




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