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tMC and FS are the first two


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#91 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 02:08 PM

Um... no. Uh. It would make the crappiest and most redundant, pointless plot if the works of FS were undone within a few years. It makes the ending useless and the game itself, pointless if "oh look it didnt' matter anyway".


But it didn't. It didn't effect th storyline whatsoever. No new consequences were created, things went back to how they were. It was just a minigame that opened a door for FSA. Thusly, Sequel-age.

As for all this map bullshit, lighten up you guys. Are you that ornery? There's a difference between the Triforce and a map. Not even the developers are that much concerned about the timeline, and the only way to make the geography consistent would be to COMPROMISE THE GAMES, which is NOT an option for their business. People will get pissed about playing in an identical/similar enviornment all the time and Zelda won't be fun anymore. Half the fun of Zelda is discovering and exploring new areas. "And lesse, the Lost Woods? *yawn.* cool. Here's the stump Saria sings that song. Eh. The boss is probably where the Deku Tree is."

As for the reasons they don't have a drop-list and put in all these "realistic features" is obvious. EYE CANDY! that's the reason we have any graphics that are SNES-quality or higher, or we'd be playing TWW in 8 bit. (which would probably be kinda cool, but I digress)

Get the hell OVER it. The Geography is not a tool you can use to warp your theories to fit your wants and needs. It's a peice of eye candy you can use to clear up consistencies that don't contradict the timeline, like the Death Mountain in OOT and TWW. Get over yourselves. You don't know the intentions of the creators, you don't know what they are planning, and you especially don't know the significance of the geography, if you can't even accept Fyxe's reasoning. But I guess that's what we get for arguing with british dudes.

#92 Fatgoron

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 04:34 PM

Fair enough, it's come down to opinion vs opinion.
You have yours and I'll have mine.

#93 Zythe

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 04:46 PM

Not even the developers are that much concerned about the timeline, and the only way to make the geography consistent would be to COMPROMISE THE GAMES, which is NOT an option for their business.

WTF? Geography would not compromise the games. At all. You're just ignoring it to make your theories work. -leaves-

Get the hell OVER it. The Geography is not a tool you can use to warp your theories to fit your wants and needs. It's a peice of eye candy you can use to clear up consistencies that don't contradict the timeline, like the Death Mountain in OOT and TWW. Get over yourselves. You don't know the intentions of the creators, you don't know what they are planning, and you especially don't know the significance of the geography, if you can't even accept Fyxe's reasoning. But I guess that's what we get for arguing with british dudes.


Translation. "I don't care if the geography links them together, I like it my way! -pouts- And I can't believe you didn't agree with Fyxe's ramblings one hundred percent! It doesn't matter if geographically it makes sense, because my way's better because... because I say so!"

But I guess that's what we get for arguing with british dudes.


Translation. "Yeah, well... shut up! I'm American and I'm instantly better!"

Prejudiced.

#94 SOAP

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 05:04 PM

"Yeah, well... shut up! I'm American and I'm instantly better!"


Words of wisdom. :cool:

#95 Hero of Slime

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 05:05 PM

WTF? Geography would not compromise the games.

If Nintendo were to make all the Zelda games to have the exact same layout the games would become predictable and would be no fun to play.

#96 29-Year-Old-From-Georgia

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 06:14 PM

Zythe, I do believe you are the one whining. Now, then, think about it...

Give three good, non-geography reasons that FS and FSA are different Links. Just try.

#97 Fyxe

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 06:32 PM

Ramblings, eh?

Whatever. Way to totally ignore the arguements against you.

#98 Zythe

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 09:18 AM

Zythe, I do believe you are the one whining. Now, then, think about it...

Give three good, non-geography reasons that FS and FSA are different Links. Just try.


1. Link is an idiot and grabs the sword.

2. You're explained everything about the Four Sword and Vaati again.

3. Fairies are different.

#99 coinilius

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 09:35 AM

1: That isn't really a good reason - do you have any evidence to back up the assumption that Link is an idiot?

2: I don't think Link is explained anything about the sword and Vaati in the game, it's just something that we get in the opening. Link apparently just knows the consequences of pulling the sword.

3: The fairies you collect are Force Fairies, which seem to be different fairies to the normal healing ones. Also, the Maidens turn into the little ball of light type fairies, so that type of fairy is seen in both games.

#100 Zythe

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 09:43 AM

1. Yes.

and grabs the sword.


He knows what it'll do. So what was his problem, Dark Link running around? A real hero who knew what the sword did would've left it and would not have cared about stupid Dark Link. If he had to, he could always let himself die down there. No need to unleash Vaati.

2. Kaepora Gaepora.

3. Yes, but no fairy queens that look like Titania and Oberon, like in FS.

EDIT: I'd like to add it makes no difference to my theory whethere it takes 1 year or 5000 years to fill the gap between the games, since it still goes FS-HA.

#101 29-Year-Old-From-Georgia

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 11:41 AM

1. Zelda and the maidens were missing. You would of grabbed the sword, too.

2. That's for the player's convience. Besides, he was told a lot that wasn't revealed in FS.

3: The fairies you collect are Force Fairies, which seem to be different fairies to the normal healing ones. Also, the Maidens turn into the little ball of light type fairies, so that type of fairy is seen in both games.



#102 Zythe

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 11:43 AM

1. Zelda and the maidens were missing. You would of grabbed the sword, too.

2. That's for the players convience.


1. No I wouldn't. If I or any "hero" knew what it did, they would have rather died to save the world.

2. So it can't be used as evidence? Pokemon Colluseum had no explanation of how things work outside the manual...

#103 29-Year-Old-From-Georgia

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 11:46 AM

You're looking too much into it. Link seemed to know about Vaati becasue of the anomynous narrator saying "You know what will happen when you pull the sword...". For the second one, how do you explain characters saying "press the A button to do this"? Player's convience.

#104 Vazor

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 11:47 AM

Edit: Wrong thread

#105 Zythe

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 11:50 AM

You're looking too much into it. Link seemed to know about Vaati becasue of the anomynous narrator saying "You know what will happen when you pull the sword...". For the second one, how do you explain characters saying "press the A button to do this"? Player's convience.


The player knows it will happen. Narration versus character descriptions. A Button? Link has no A button himself. That's different from storybased explanations.

#106 SOAP

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 11:57 AM

He would've pulled the sword because he had fought Vaati before and was confident he could seal him up once again.

#107 Fyxe

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 11:59 AM

1. No I wouldn't. If I or any "hero" knew what it did, they would have rather died to save the world.


Dying wouldn't of saved anyone.

As for the fairies looking different, that's a rubbish conclusion. Most people consider LA to be after ALttP, and the Queen Fairies in particular look different in those two games. So what if the Fairies look different?

#108 Zythe

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 01:29 PM

He would've pulled the sword because he had fought Vaati before and was confident he could seal him up once again.


What, and risk everyone's lives in the process, without any guarantee he could beat Vaati a second time? Blah! I spit at your FS-HA-In-Close-Proximity beliefs.

#109 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 01:45 PM

QUOTE]WTF? Geography would not compromise the games. At all. You're just ignoring it to make your theories work. -leaves-
[/QUOTE]

Yes, it would. If every game had the same geography to make the story work, there'd be no interesting areas except for in the Oracle, MM, LA and TWW games. Not enough to justify identical geography in Hyrule.

[quote]Translation. "I don't care if the geography links them together, I like it my way! -pouts- And I can't believe you didn't agree with Fyxe's ramblings one hundred percent! It doesn't matter if geographically it makes sense, because my way's better because... because I say so!"[/quote]Translation: "Liek....OMFG! Fyxe can never be rite becuz she's a gurl! ewww. I don't care aboot the Producer's intentions and interests, I'm omniscient and I can probably change their minds myself cuz Im-a charmed one. XPPP"

[quote]Prejudiced.[/quote]

Pfft. This coming from the guy who automatically thinks all n00bs are retards and peices of trash upon posting in the Storyline Forum.

[quote]1. Link is an idiot and grabs the sword[/quote]Except that's Link's personality. A headstrong hero who thinks with his heart and not his head. Either way, he would've grabbed the sword to do what was right, knowing he was the only one who could make a difference.

[quote]2. You're explained everything about the Four Sword and Vaati again.[/quote]

Yea. WE'RE explained everything again. As in, the player and not us. You'd be a crappy roleplayer if you can't even hold up the fourth wall.

[/quote]3. Fairies are different[quote]Fairies aren't supremeist nazis. I'm sorry, they can have identities too.

[quote]He knows what it'll do. So what was his problem, Dark Link running around? A real hero who knew what the sword did would've left it and would not have cared about stupid Dark Link. If he had to, he could always let himself die down there. No need to unleash Vaati.[/quote]

He knows that Dark Link kidnapped the Princess and the Maidens who maintained the seal on Vaati, and that Dark Link will hurt innocent people while Vaati is breaking free like he did in FS. Either way, Vaati's getting free. Might as well take out the lesser evil while you have the chance. If he DIED down there, Vaati would still be freed, and the Maidens would all rot. Way to go, Hero.

[quote]1. No I wouldn't. If I or any "hero" knew what it did, they would have rather died to save the world.[/quote]>_> Now you're just effin' retarded. Dying doesn't save anyone. Especially if they've already been kidnapped. Not to mention there's still Dark Link and Ganon out there.

[quote]What, and risk everyone's lives in the process, without any guarantee he could beat Vaati a second time? Blah! I spit at your FS-HA-In-Close-Proximity beliefs.[/quote]

Like he EVER had any quarantee in ANY of the games of ANYTHING? He's a hero. It's about taking a risk to do what's right. If he beat him a first time, he could beat him again. Besides, he atleast has to TRY. Now STFU. You're a total dumbass with a literal Super Ego.

#110 Zythe

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 03:03 PM

Yes, it would. If every game had the same geography to make the story work, there'd be no interesting areas except for in the Oracle, MM, LA and TWW games. Not enough to justify identical geography in Hyrule.

Hence why the maps evolve over time.

Translation: "Liek....OMFG! Fyxe can never be rite becuz she's a gurl! ewww. I don't care aboot the Producer's intentions and interests, I'm omniscient and I can probably change their minds myself cuz Im-a charmed one. XPPP"



That didn't even relate to what I said. And bringing TV shows I like into this and making stuff up really makes you sound like you know what you're talking about.

Pfft. This coming from the guy who automatically thinks all n00bs are retards and peices of trash upon posting in the Storyline Forum.

Find a post where I call someone a n00b and a peice of trash.

Except that's Link's personality. A headstrong hero who thinks with his heart and not his head. Either way, he would've grabbed the sword to do what was right, knowing he was the only one who could make a difference.



Yes, because Link so regularly shows personality in all that dialogue he gives us.

Yea. WE'RE explained everything again. As in, the player and not us. You'd be a crappy roleplayer if you can't even hold up the fourth wall.

Funny, they were addressing Link. Informing us is what the manual's for.

He knows that Dark Link kidnapped the Princess and the Maidens who maintained the seal on Vaati, and that Dark Link will hurt innocent people while Vaati is breaking free like he did in FS. Either way, Vaati's getting free. Might as well take out the lesser evil while you have the chance. If he DIED down there, Vaati would still be freed, and the Maidens would all rot. Way to go, Hero.



Would this be happening in the infinite loop of Dark Link jumping side-to-side?

>_> Now you're just effin' retarded. Dying doesn't save anyone. Especially if they've already been kidnapped. Not to mention there's still Dark Link and Ganon out there.

I'm retarded? I would say "Go **** yourself", if we're going to get into swearwords, but I'll leave that to you since you're sooo good at it. And Dark Link's right in front of Link. And Link has no idea Ganon's out there. Just like he has no damn idea about the damn sword.

Like he EVER had any quarantee in ANY of the games of ANYTHING? He's a hero. It's about taking a risk to do what's right. If he beat him a first time, he could beat him again. Besides, he atleast has to TRY. Now STFU. You're a total dumbass with a literal Super Ego.



Yes, but Link never actively caused the problem in the other games intentionally, as you're proposing. More swearwords. Nice.

Never once have I shown an ego or acted like I'm omniscient. We're not going to agree on this, so it's really a stalemate untill the thread gets closed. What swearwords will you come up with now, oh great one.

#111 Fyxe

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 03:32 PM

Zythe, sorry, you do have an ego, not kidding here. For one thing, just a few posts ago in this topic you said I was rambling away and just dismissed me.

The maps do more than 'evolve'. They outright change.

Zythe, just so you know, NOT EVERYONE READS THE MANUALS. In fact, many gamers don't bother. That's why characters in Zelda games often end up telling you what buttons to press. There's always an introductory sequence.

And yes, Shadow Link was jumping to side to side, but what do you want Link to do? Leave the Maidens and Zelda to their imprisonment, let Shadow Link free Vaati anyway (and grab the Four Sword for himself, for that matter)? And as far as Link knew, it was Vaati who kidnapped the Maidens so he would assume Vaati was nearing release anyway (and he probably was), as seen in FS, Vaati can free himself.

#112 Zythe

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 03:36 PM

Isn't it clear Shadow Link needed Link to draw the sword, which is why he danced around it? Link could have stood there and as games go, he would've danced forever and ever and ever, technincally. And if it was so close to FS, the seal wouldn't be breaking since the FS intro established that the seals last a long time.

#113 Fyxe

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 03:50 PM

Well, you too might assume that until six Maidens and Zelda suddenly disappear while checking the seal and a dark version of yourself suddenly shows up. In that situation, you might go 'hey, wait a frickin' second'.

And besides, if Shadow Link had tried to grab the sword, Link probably would of attacked him.

The whole point is that Link was being tricked into pulling the sword. He knows what will happen, but he was fooled into thinking it would happen anyway (and hey, it very easily could of done. What do you want Link to do, go out and find another sword while Ganon opens the seal anyway?).

#114 Zythe

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 03:52 PM

[not being mean or evil sounding]So, Link was just stupid but that's more the writers at fault?[/not being mean or evil sounding]

#115 Fyxe

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 03:55 PM

Why was he stupid? When I saw the intro, *I* thought Vaati was breaking out anyway. And besides, if he grabs that sword, he ends up with four of himself to fight Vaati rather than one.

#116 Zythe

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 03:56 PM

Well, I still don't agree but I'll make a compromise. I'll play the intro again and watch from your perspective. If it changes my mind, fine. If it doesn't, fine.

Either way, my timeline stays exactly the same.

#117 Chikara Nadir

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 04:04 PM

Okay, kids, enough with the mud and rocks.

How about we keep this thread open on the condition that all SCREAMING ends immediately and everyone tries to think calmly? Yeeees. (and not just coming in here randomly- someone asked me to do so because of the arguement). Yeah..moving on. *pets Link's hair*

#118 Fyxe

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 04:05 PM

To be quite frank, I need to give the intro another look myself. But still, the fact that they mention Link by name when talking about FS and then, hey, we see Link again, that's very damning in my eyes. There's no reason to believe they're seperate Links, most casual gamers wouldn't, it's just that we're in many cases overwhelmed by the whole storyline thing that we think it might be a different one.

#119 Zythe

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 04:06 PM

I understand what you mean Fyxe. I'm like two steps away from putting every single game in their own continuum.

#120 SOAP

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 05:48 PM

I understand what you mean Fyxe. I'm like two steps away from putting every single game in their own continuum.


Youi can do that if you want. But it still won't save you money on car insurance.




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