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#211 SwordBreaker

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 06:56 AM

Yea....about the Light Force looking like a Triforce peice.

We see an item in LA that makes you temporarily invincible called a Peice of Power. It's shaped like a triangle. OMG GANONDORF'z TRIFOCRE! -.-


lol yea...and the 'cash' in FSA which power up the Four Sword are little Triforce pieces. OMG TRIFOCRE HAS SKATTERD INTO MILLIONZ OF PEACES. lol

So yea...you make a good point with that.

#212 Vazor

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 09:01 AM

The Light Force is a little different from all the other Triangles. One, we know it has some sort of sacred power, two, only the royal family seems to know about it, and three, it was brought to Hyrule from another realm. Hmmm, I wonder what ever could it be.....

#213 Fatgoron

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 09:04 AM

Clues in the name, it's the light force. ;d

#214 Vazor

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 09:11 AM

Oh ye of little faith.

Do you honestly think they're gonna bring in ANOTHER sacred triangle from another realm? I mean come on, the Light Force fits in with being the Triforce as well as OoT being the Imprisoning War.

#215 Fatgoron

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 09:15 AM

I'd like to see the japanese translation of TMC before I take your word for that, since the japanese aLttP fit far better with OoT as a backstory than the western version.

Besides, the light force isn't neccessarily from another realm. All we know is that the minish gave it to the hero. They could have picked it up off of the floor for all we know.

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 11:49 AM

The Light Force is not the Triforce, or not in my eyes. And I don't think Hidemaro Fujibayashi even thought about the Light Force and the Triforce as being one in the same, as he seemed a bit unknowing about the question, but may answer it in the future, but probably not.

No one knows if the Minish Realm and the Sacred Realm are one in the same. The Minish Realm opens every hundred years, but the Sacred Realm does not do this as we know of. Doesn't sound like a connection to me anyways.

Melari states that the Elemental Sanctuary is strange realm trapped between two worlds. He said it was the bridge to the minish world and the human world and the doorway opens only once a century.

But of course I know others might not agree with that. Still when you think of the Triforce do you think of it as an infinite source which cannot be deplenished. Is the Triforce an omnipotent device as A link to the Past suggests in those people who think of the Light Force and the Triforce one in the same. Well if you do then you will know that Vaati had most of the Light Force in him.

When the curse is broken on Ezlo he is states that all the trouble and despair was because of the magical hat he had created but still says that there is hope. However he says something interesting about the Light Force.

Ezlo states this:
I know many have fallen, and much of the castle has been destroyed...But it is too soon to give into despair. The curse is broken, and Zelda still possesses some of the light force.

This statment makes it clear that she does not have all of the light force. Now if this was the Triforce, or a piece of the Triforce, that means that Link destroyed Vaati and the a piece of the Triforce! Do you really think that Link destroyed a piece of the Triforce? I wouldn't think so, and Vaati did have a lot of the light force's powers. As Link and Zelda leave the crumbling castle and try to find safe haven in the sanctuary Vaati stops them and states this to Link:

Heh heh heh heh...You will not escape, boy. Now you will see the true power of the light force...For I have become Vaati, the master of this world.

It is very clear that Vaati has most of the light force. And what did he mean by master of this world. Well my suggestion was that he was in the Minish Realm, as the Sanctuary was a connection to the Minish World and the Human World as stated by Melari in statements I made above. This place that you go to does not look like the Golden Land/Sacred Realm. The sky does not shine gold instead of blue, but perhaps the realm was corrupted by Vaati. Still I think the Minish Realm and the Sacred Realm are different, and let's get back to the light force.

Okay after Vaati goes on about showing him the true power of the light force, showing Link what this power can truly do, we soon find out what happens after he is destroyed, along with remanents of the light force he had inside him.

Fool! I...But the light force...My power...I had such power...

Vaati couldn't believe that he was beaten while having extracted most of the light force from Zelda. How do I know that he extracted most of it? Well if the third toll of the bell is sounded then Vaati has consumed the entire light force, but only two bells sound by the time Link gets there, meaning Vaati had 2/3 of the light force power.

Honestly does anyone truly think that Vaati could have done that to the Triforce? I think not.

#217 Guest_Terranix_*

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 12:11 PM

Clearing up the matter of the Four Sword Sanctuary's location:

Link, the sacred grounds lie within this forest.


So it's not in the Dark World. They go into the forest near the Tower of Winds, and it's there. No portals or rips in space time or anything.

#218 SOAP

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 01:19 PM

^ Well, that's all you guys need to say to change this man's mind. Though, I wish you could give a little more info on where that quote came from (like who said it would be nice).

#219 Vazor

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 02:31 PM

Is the Triforce an omnipotent device as A link to the Past suggests in those people who think of the Light Force and the Triforce one in the same. Well if you do then you will know that Vaati had most of the Light Force in him.

At this point in Hyrulean time, they didn't know that the Light Force was three in one. Vaati clearly has either one or two portions of the Triforce in him (most likely Power and Courage).

Ezlo states this:  
I know many have fallen, and much of the castle has been destroyed...But it is too soon to give into despair. The curse is broken, and Zelda still possesses some of the light force.

The part of the Light Force that Vaati didn't have: Wisdom. Moving on...

Now if this was the Triforce, or a piece of the Triforce, that means that Link destroyed Vaati and the a piece of the Triforce! Do you really think that Link destroyed a piece of the Triforce?

No, I don't think that link destroyed the Triforce. Ganon had the Triforce in LTTP, and killing him didn't destroy the Triforce, so why should it be different with Vaati? The Hylians at that time obviously didn't yet know that the Triforce/Light Force was an indestructable power.

Honestly does anyone truly think that Vaati could have done that to the Triforce? I think not.

No I don't. It just left his body. Just like in LTTP. And OoT. And LoZ. If you destroy somebody with the Triforce or even just part of it, it does not destroy the Triforce itself. So why on earth would it be destroyed with Vaati's death?

#220 SwordBreaker

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 05:33 PM

When the curse is broken on Ezlo he is states that all the trouble and despair was because of the magical hat he had created but still says that there is hope. However he says something interesting about the Light Force.

Ezlo states this:
I know many have fallen, and much of the castle has been destroyed...But it is too soon to give into despair. The curse is broken, and Zelda still possesses some of the light force.


Exactly man. I stated the same thing a page back. So I basically agree with all you said there.

I also think that the Light Force Vaati distracted will help him come back in the next FS game. It's the only explaination I can think of regarding Vaati's return.

#221 SwordBreaker

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 05:42 PM

At this point in Hyrulean time, they didn't know that the Light Force was three in one. Vaati clearly has either one or two portions of the Triforce in him (most likely Power and Courage).


Ok for the sake of your theory, let's assume the Light Force is the Triforce. In the glass-stained painting of Zelda, why is their ONE Triangle shown representing the Light Force? It should've been THREE Triangles. Also, if Zelda had THE WHOLE Light Force -which means Triforce in your theory- in her, then she could've wished for anything...she would've been invincible.

#222 Vazor

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 05:48 PM

She didn't know what it could do. There is no evidence that the Light Force had been used prior to MC, save for the Hero of Man, but it never states that they knew how it worked (as in, granting the holder's wish).

#223 Hero of Winds

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 06:58 PM

No, I don't think that link destroyed the Triforce. Ganon had the Triforce in LTTP, and killing him didn't destroy the Triforce, so why should it be different with Vaati? The Hylians at that time obviously didn't yet know that the Triforce/Light Force was an indestructable power.



First of all, Ganon didn't physically hold the Triforce, it was kept in another room. Second of all, you're ASSUMING that the Hylians are lacking knowledge regarding the Triforce and Light Force connection (or lackthereof).

No I don't. It just left his body. Just like in LTTP. And OoT. And LoZ. If you destroy somebody with the Triforce or even just part of it, it does not destroy the Triforce itself. So why on earth would it be destroyed with Vaati's death?



Again, Ganon wasn't physically holding the Triforce in ALttP. And if you remember, Ganon still had the Triforce of Power after being defeated in OoT.

Now let me ask this question: can anyone else argue that the Minish Realm is the Sacred Realm? And if they can, is there any proof backing it up? I want to see if that issue is still alive and kicking.

#224 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 08:52 PM

One, we know it has some sort of sacred power, two, only the royal family seems to know about it, and three, it was brought to Hyrule from another realm. Hmmm, I wonder what ever could it be.....

1) Well dur, every plot device is sacred.

2) If only the royal family knows about it, how can it be an ancient LEGEND? A legend requires itself to be widespread.

Besides, the light force isn't neccessarily from another realm. All we know is that the minish gave it to the hero. They could have picked it up off of the floor for all we know.


Good point. Or MAYBE they made it. They made the Wishing Cap, another plot device. and the Picori Blade.

No one knows if the Minish Realm and the Sacred Realm are one in the same. The Minish Realm opens every hundred years, but the Sacred Realm does not do this as we know of. Doesn't sound like a connection to me anyways.

Exactly. The way they describe the Sacred Realm, it's a secret hiding place, devoid of life, or something like that. And if they were the same, why didn't the Minish use it to make everyone in the universe happy? That IS their goal after all. and they're not Sages. I'm sure they wouldn't care about the cosmic ramifications of their actions or whatever Zythe-style excuse someone might bring up.

This statment makes it clear that she does not have all of the light force. Now if this was the Triforce, or a piece of the Triforce, that means that Link destroyed Vaati and the a piece of the Triforce! Do you really think that Link destroyed a piece of the Triforce? I wouldn't think so, and Vaati did have a lot of the light force's powers. As Link and Zelda leave the crumbling castle and try to find safe haven in the sanctuary Vaati stops them and states this to Link:


Good points. Also, do you think a guy with a hat can steal a divine relic described as only able to be taken when the Triforce parts are gathered, the owner gives it up willingly, or the owner dies? And even if the Triforce peices weren't destroyed, they wouldn't go to the Sacred Realm unless the whole Triforce is assembled and dismissed. Otherwise they sit idly like Courage peices in TWW.

Vaati couldn't believe that he was beaten while having extracted most of the light force from Zelda. How do I know that he extracted most of it? Well if the third toll of the bell is sounded then Vaati has consumed the entire light force, but only two bells sound by the time Link gets there, meaning Vaati had 2/3 of the light force power.  

Honestly does anyone truly think that Vaati could have done that to the Triforce? I think not.

Exactly. I don't care if he has a Wishing Hat. the Triforce CAN'T be stolen. Especially if Zelda supposedly has the whole Triforce, as it's supposed to serve her as long as she LIVES. She's only stone. she isn't dead.

No, I don't think that link destroyed the Triforce. Ganon had the Triforce in LTTP, and killing him didn't destroy the Triforce, so why should it be different with Vaati? The Hylians at that time obviously didn't yet know that the Triforce/Light Force was an indestructable power.

Ganon's Triforce was in another room, in the Sacred Realm. If it was Vaati's position, the Triforce would of hovered over his ashes like the Triforce of Power did for Ganon in LOZ

She didn't know what it could do. There is no evidence that the Light Force had been used prior to MC, save for the Hero of Man, but it never states that they knew how it worked (as in, granting the holder's wish).

This is irrevelent. When someone obtains the Triforce, It tells them telepathically something along the lines of "If Thou has a desire, simply grasp the Golden Power and wish for it" I don't know what it said exactly, but it's close enough. And even if it didn't, since Zelda was born with it, Her wishes would still be granted since the Triforce grants someone's greatest desires automatically by mere contact.

Now let me ask this question: can anyone else argue that the Minish Realm is the Sacred Realm? And if they can, is there any proof backing it up? I want to see if that issue is still alive and kicking.


No, they can't. If this was the case, why would Rauru be needed to guard the Triforce? The Minish should be able to do it. and if the Minish did live in the Sacred Realm, then wouldn't they ask Link for protection againest Ganon's forces or something in LTTP? Or wouldn't there ATLEAST Be Minish scuttering around on the ground in the Four Sword palace as backround or something?

#225 Guest_Darkseid_*

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 06:10 AM

At this point in Hyrulean time, they didn't know that the Light Force was three in one.  Vaati clearly has either one or two portions of the Triforce in him (most likely Power and Courage).

In all times of the Hyrulean legend the people have known about the Triforce. And there is nothing to say that the light force is a three in one object. It isn't stated anywhere as such. I know people like to speculate on these things, but canonical facts beats assumptions, and it is canonical that the light force is just considered as one force, not a three in one force. Also according to you, you think that Vaati had two portions of the Triforce in him Power and Courage, when Hidemaro Fujibayashi said that Ganon would probably win in battle amongst the two do to him having the Triforce of Power. Oh yeah that makes sense, maybe Vaati just doesn't know how to use its powers properly:rolleyes:.


The part of the Light Force that Vaati didn't have: Wisdom.  Moving on...


Except he never had the Triforce.....moving on.

No, I don't think that link destroyed the Triforce.  Ganon had the Triforce in LTTP, and killing him didn't destroy the Triforce, so why should it be different with Vaati?  The Hylians at that time obviously didn't yet know that the Triforce/Light Force was an indestructable power.


Ganon in A link to the Past had the Triforce behind a room. Ganon in the original Legend of Zelda just held the Triforce of Power above his head, so neither of these games has Ganon having the Triforce inside of him, but with Vaati it is different. He consumed the light force inside of him. He extracted its powers from Zelda to make it become a part of him, and you can't do that with the Triforce. Also if this was the Triforce then Link would have been shown to have gotten what pieces Vaati had when he destroyed him but he didn't. Don't state that this wasn't done because of the graphical stlye of the game. The Triforce is shown in the LttP remake and the OoS and OoA so there is no reason to assume that the game was too incompetent to show the sprites.

No I don't.  It just left his body.  Just like in LTTP.  And OoT.  And LoZ.  If you destroy somebody with the Triforce or even just part of it, it does not destroy the Triforce itself.  So why on earth would it be destroyed with Vaati's death?


Once again your statements are moot. Ganon never had the Triforce in his body in LTTP, it is behind him in a room. The Triforce of Power is not in him in the Legend of Zelda, as it showed him carrying it. In the Ocarina of Time the Triforce of Power didn't leave Ganondorf's body because Ganondorf wasn't destroyed in that game, he was sealed. And the reason that the force would be destroyed with Vaati in his death was because you never seen pieces of the Triforce fling out of his body. There is no proof of it.

#226 Zythe

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 02:02 PM

YAY! I beat level 7 of FSA. I see what Hero means, and that there was indeed a teleporter to the Sanctuary inside the castle.

Ganon in A link to the Past had the Triforce behind a room. Ganon in the original Legend of Zelda just held the Triforce of Power above his head, so neither of these games has Ganon having the Triforce inside of him, but with Vaati it is different. He consumed the light force inside of him. He extracted its powers from Zelda to make it become a part of him, and you can't do that with the Triforce. Also if this was the Triforce then Link would have been shown to have gotten what pieces Vaati had when he destroyed him but he didn't. Don't state that this wasn't done because of the graphical stlye of the game. The Triforce is shown in the LttP remake and the OoS and OoA so there is no reason to assume that the game was too incompetent to show the sprites.


In OoT, it was inside him.

#227 Darunia

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 01:02 AM

Not to mention it never left him, since he was sealed with it in the Sacred Realm.

#228 MK.

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 03:15 AM

this has got to be the biggest debate we've had not involving an idiot who wouldn't leave :P

Honestly, I'm to the point that I'm just "dismissing" the following:
FS, HA, MC... I do not consider them to have been "well constructed" by Nintendo and just "created" for the sake of being "created..."

I believe the zelda continiuum is better without them :P

#229 Darunia

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 04:33 AM

this has got to be the biggest debate we've had not involving an idiot who wouldn't leave :P

Honestly, I'm to the point that I'm just "dismissing" the following:
FS, HA, MC...  I do not consider them to have been "well constructed" by Nintendo and just "created" for the sake of being "created..."

I believe the zelda continiuum is better without them :P



What makes them so poorly constructed that you don't think they should have been included in the series? And be specific...

And that's like saying that even though ants exist, we're going to categorically deny their existence, simply because they don't fit with our world. Kind of a cheap way out there, now isn't it?

#230 Zythe

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 05:36 AM

this has got to be the biggest debate we've had not involving an idiot who wouldn't leave :P

Honestly, I'm to the point that I'm just "dismissing" the following:
FS, HA, MC...  I do not consider them to have been "well constructed" by Nintendo and just "created" for the sake of being "created..."

I believe the zelda continiuum is better without them :P


I'm so proud of this debate :) .

They would work perfectly, if they has simply made a clear definition of the Light Force and the Minish Realm. Also, as we're on the subject of disregarding them, I almost feel tempted to put the "FS" and "MS" games in different timelines especially seeing as the whole Gerduo/Zuna Village thing in HA is messed up. It's LTTP era and Ganondorf is an unknown human and the Gerudoes aren't extinct? WTF.

I'm not quite there, but I'm one step away from having FS games in their own universe and simply leaving Ganon's backstory as we see it in HA. This close.

#231 Vazor

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 10:38 AM

No multiple timelines. Multiple timelines are th easy way out, used by people who don't want to think too hard.
And FSA is not necessary LTTP era, it could easily by a few centuries before LTTP, an dby then the Gerudos have not yet died out. Where were they in WW? I could ask the same question about the Zoras. They moved away, and the ones who stayed evolved into something else. The "Gerudo Island" could easily be slightly west of the Great Sea, one of the places where KORL said you couldn't go. And when the great islands grow back together, it merges in with the mainland again.
And Ganon's FSA backstory makes perfect sense when it is put a few generations after Oracles. Not many people knew who he was, and he was transformed into a pig when revived (it makes the most sense to me to have his revival as the point where he becomes a monster). And in Oracles, he just faded away, to retunr again someday. Therefore, it fits in well with the FSA idea of hardly anyone knowing who he was.

#232 Zythe

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 11:28 AM

But the ToP is what made him the pig! In HA he's treated like he's only a young man and he's going to do something unheard of. Also, the way the Zunas speak of their ancestors does indicate some OoT-era happenings.

Also, do the Zunas not look like Zora/Gerudoes or Zora-Rito missing links to you?

#233 Vazor

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 01:02 PM

Wait, I'm confused...in HA, does Ganon start off as a Gerudo or Pig Monster?

#234 Zythe

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 01:08 PM

It would seem a person as he lives in the village with the Gerudoes. The Trident makes him a pig, and indicates that there's some devil-equivalent in Hyrule.

#235 Vazor

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 01:44 PM

Oooh, spooky.
I really hope Z05 clears things up. But we all know it'll just make things worse.

#236 Zythe

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 01:46 PM

Or FSDS, which I am slightly frightened of.

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 02:13 PM

Maybe not. I assumed the Trident of Darkness belonged to the tribe that built the pyramids and was sealed in the Dark Mirror ("We grant you the power of darkness.". Plural). Maybe even the the same tribe that used Majora's Mask in hexing rituals and dissappeared (when sealed). Agahnim's "tribe of evil".

#238 Zythe

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 02:25 PM

Would you say the Zunas are the Tribe of evil? The "we" just struck me as a cult on behalf of some evil deity or perhaps one of those people who refer to themselves in the plural, like some sort of Brahma-esque deity with Avatars and stuff. I'm getting OT. I feel tempted to ask a mod to rename this "General Four Swords Discussion".

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 08:20 PM

The Zuna seem pretty nice, so I don't think they were the ones who made the Trident.

And as for the dark tribe sealed in the mirror, the game all but states that it's the Deku Scrubs.

#240 Hana-Nezumi

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 10:37 PM

who are the zuna?




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