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Potential timeline reveal?


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#91 Person

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 11:36 AM


Honestly it sounds like bull to me, because there are no pages to back it up. The table of contents doesn't mention anything about ALttP at all.


It could be bull regardless, but I'm pretty sure the "Downfall of Hyrule" section is about the classic games.

I thought it was about the flood.

#92 FDL

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:03 PM

According to this guy: http://www.zeldauniv...tml#post4449307

that's not the case. But even if he's not correct or is guessing, the flood doesn't have enough to it to be a whole section in this book. Judging by how quickly TP's backstory and MM are described(four pages altogether) it's likely the flood will be covered in the section on The Wind Waker. I highly doubt we're gonna get 18 pages on the flood if the explanation of TP's backstory had so little detail comparatively, if anything the latter is more in need of elaboration than the flood is.

#93 Person

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:09 PM

I'm just waiting for someone to scan the freaking pages now.

#94 Masamune

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:16 PM

I'd say the best chance we have of getting this book is as a Club Nintendo prize. Which means I'm glad I've already reached Platinum for whatever we get next.

edit: Haha, me replying to something on the first page. Silly me. Oh well, point still stands.

Edited by Masamune, 21 December 2011 - 12:19 PM.


#95 JRPomazon

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:53 PM

These sort of books are pretty much never translated to English, unfortunately.

There were plans to bring over one of the Rockman ones (Zero series, I think), but they fell through for some reason.


That's interesting that you should say that because I saw it in English a while back:

http://www.amazon.com/Megaman-Zero-Official-Complete-Works/dp/1897376014

Edited by JRPomazon, 21 December 2011 - 01:10 PM.


#96 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:18 PM

I see absolutely nothing even implying that book is in English.

#97 River Zora

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:39 PM

I see absolutely nothing even implying that book is in English.

All the reviews say it's English, even to the point of moaning about poor Engrish and/or translation errors.

#98 Beno

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 04:25 PM

I don't think anyone in all of Japan has a scanner...

I'm totally fine with this timeline, except I just can't figure out FSA being where it is. More specifically why FS and FSA are separated. Those will be the first parts I translate when I get scans. And whatever part explains exactly how this 3rd timeline works.

#99 Nerushi

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 04:40 PM

I don't think anyone in all of Japan has a scanner...


Of course they do. As it happens they are running busy at all times scanning all those weekly and monthly manga. After all, they are endless! :whistle:

I'm totally fine with this timeline, except I just can't figure out FSA being where it is. More specifically why FS and FSA are separated. Those will be the first parts I translate when I get scans. And whatever part explains exactly how this 3rd timeline works.


I agree. I don't mind a three-pronged trident-like timeline. If they want to put the classic in their own timeline, then fine. In a way, it is adhering to the original intent more than placing it at the end on the AT or the CT. But separating FS and FSA... *shudders*

#100 Beno

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 06:17 PM

Some more nonofficial confirmation on the 3 timelines from Japanese Zelda Wikipedia Page on LttP:

『時のオカリナ』でリンクがガノンドロフとの戦いに敗北した未来の話である[13]。
In "Ocarina of Time" Link is defeated in his fight against Ganon in the future story. [13]

Citation:
13^ ハイラルヒストリア ゼルダの伝説大全92ページより
13^ Hyrule Historia Legend of Zelda Encyclopedia, page 92

http://ja.wikipedia....説シリーズ

Edited by Beno, 21 December 2011 - 06:32 PM.


#101 SOAP

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 08:50 PM


Honestly it sounds like bull to me, because there are no pages to back it up. The table of contents doesn't mention anything about ALttP at all.


It could be bull regardless, but I'm pretty sure the "Downfall of Hyrule" section is about the classic games.


Considering there's apparently a third split in the timeline and the section comes between the section on the Hero of Time and the section on TP, AND considering this section mentions the Last Hero despite mentioning other heroes in subsequent sections... I have to say you could be right.

#102 Person

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 08:53 PM

I'm laughing so hard at all the theorists getting mad over at ZU. None of them were right, so obviously Nintendo is dumb and didn't make a proper timeline. :P The entire mood over there is "LA LA LA NOT LISTENING!"

Edited by Person, 21 December 2011 - 09:19 PM.


#103 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 09:20 PM

Considering there's apparently a third split in the timeline


This hasn't been proven.

#104 SOAP

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 09:20 PM

What is Lex saying? Last time I checked he espoused a Progressive Legends Theory which this seems to vindicate. Too bad ZI's not up anymore. I wonder how the peeps over there are taking it. Are they all at ZU now?

#105 Sir Turtlelot

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 09:37 PM

Well now, the "official" timeline certainly is... interesting? I'm not quite sure how to feel about it just yet, honestly. I wouldn't of really considered OoT Link, or any Link for that matter, with a canonical option of failing...

I'm with MPS on this, I'm going to wait until some actual evidence shows up before I start accepting this. Afterall, this is posted on the webpage.

Be warned: there may be errors, given the nature of the transcribing, and Nintendo may later own up and say this isn't the super-secret official timeline they've been guarding with their lives for decades. This may be just an "interpretation". Or something. Got that? OK, read on!



#106 Chaltab

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 10:03 PM

I actually like this timeline a lot, if it's accurate. Well, aside Four Swords Adventure not following immediately after Four Sword, and the :huh: of a third Timeline being contingent on treating 'Game Over' as a potential branch.

Timeline A
A Link to the Past
Oracle of Seasons/Oracle of Ages
Link's Awakening
The Legend of Zelda
Adventure of Link

I've long thought that the identical raft at the end of the Oracle games was meant as an implication that they immediately preceded Link's Awakening. Granted, my crazy theory about A Link to the Past being last in that cycle didn't play out (I still think it makes more sense, just based on Link apparent age in the official art, as well as the fact that Link clearly first meets Zelda in Oracle while there's some ambiguity about whether they've met in ALTTP. By that I mean, she immediately knows his name and that he can help her when he arrives at her cell, and doesn't who he is or why a kid and not a knight has showed up.)

Timeline B
Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures

The first two aren't really controversial or remarkable, that connection is well known. But notice this: in Wind Waker, Ganondorf is understood to be a man. In all the games in the supposed 'Hero of Time failed' timeline, Ganon is referred to as an Evil King or Prince Evil, but never as a demon. He's only understood as a demon in Ocarina, TP, and FSA.

Timeline C is, obviously, completely explicit in its connections and nobody disagrees with it.

#107 FDL

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 10:33 PM

I'm not crazy about it in some ways, mainly because I think certain games could easily work on the child timeline and having game overs be canon alternate timelines opens up a whole new can of worms that defies the need for any official timelines at all. For instance, I really think OoX would make sense after Twilight Princess because there's no need to explain where the Twinrova came from and the state of Ganondorf and the Triforce make sense with it. Perhaps I was wrong to be supportive of them revealing a full timeline. However, either way I'm glad it seems to be shedding light on some of the vaguer plot points in the series and these timelines aren't really any worse than most fan timelines are.

#108 sdp

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 11:03 PM

The only thing I don't like about the triple split is it doesn't make much sense when you analyze the game, think of OOT, what you do in the past affects the future timeline, and you travel a few times to the past so that means that he created multiple timelines, not just three if you go by that logic that three were created from it.

Besides that, it's irrelevant to this timeline reveal but I always liked placing the story of Zelda II first, not familiar with Skyward sword but is it impossible for it to happen pre-OOT or post-Skyward Sword?

It'd be interesting if we get a future game that involves multiple timeline switching and making it one again, that's an interesting concept I think.

#109 joeymartin64

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 11:12 PM

Assuming this is legit:

Awesome, awesome trolling on Nintendo's part. I hate this timeline, and I will never adhere to it (I like fanon, deal with it*), but it puts a huge grin on my face. And it does answer some things in a way I don't think anyone ever considered. There was a time, oh so long ago, when the biggest question about the Zelda timeline was how Ganon ended up with the whole Triforce pre-ALttP. If memory serves, nobody ever, ever posited that he ever straight-up defeated a Hero. Could also lead into how nobody was able to take up the Master Sword, since the Hero's bloodline got wiped out.

*On that note, we can still speculate and put together timelines and such just for shiggles without people acting like assholes and going "NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT ANYMORE NOT ALLOWED AAARGH," right?

Edited by joeymartin64, 21 December 2011 - 11:21 PM.


#110 Beno

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 12:09 AM

Here's the first page of the Majora's Mask section. I didn't feel like editing the picture in paint, but it's pretty obvious where everything goes, I think. Nothing new unfortunately. Just a summary of the first part of the game. My only hope is that once we have all the pages of this together it will actually form one long coherent narrative of the whole Zelda story.

Period of the Hero of Time (Child Era):

Ocarina of Time:

Turmoil in Termina, the Parallel Universe

A World Destroyed After 3 Days
In Termina, the moon was gradually falling and in 3 days would destroy Termina. The child spirit called Skull Kid had stolen "Majora's Mask" from the traveling mask salesman, but the mask's terrible power was beyond the scope of a prank and it had an effect all over Termina.
Skull Kid mischievously stole the Ocarina of Time and Epona from Link and Link was changed into the form of a Deku.

A New Friend
After retrieving the Ocarina of Time, Link was able to return to his original form by the mask salesman who asked for Link to retrieve Majora's Mask in return. Concerned by Skull Kid's demeanor, Tatl also decided to help stop his excessive mischief.

Right Column Text:

Termina
In this strange different world, there are many people who look similar to the people of Hyrule.

The Sisters Cremia and Romani resemble Hyrule's Malon

Majora's Mask
This ominous mask was used in ancient magic.

The Fairy Tatl
Together with her brother Tael, this fairy hung around the mischievous Skull Kid. After being left behind after Skull Kid fled from Link, Link and she worked together.

Lower text:

Termina's 4 Regions
There was a central town called Clocktown with a clock tower, and there were different regions in each cardinal direction: the swamp of the Woodfall Region, the mountain of the Snowhead Region, the sea of the Great Bay region, and the valley of the Ikana Region. The Ikana Kingdom having been destroyed, each region was ruled by a different tribe.

The Dead of the Ikana Region

The Deku Tribe of the Woodfall Region

The Goron Tribe of the Snowhead Region

The Zora Tribe of the Great Bay Region
(The Zora Band, The Indigo-Go's)

#111 FDL

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 12:17 AM

Thanks again, Beno.

#112 SOAP

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 01:12 AM

The only thing I don't like about the triple split is it doesn't make much sense when you analyze the game, think of OOT, what you do in the past affects the future timeline, and you travel a few times to the past so that means that he created multiple timelines, not just three if you go by that logic that three were created from it.

Besides that, it's irrelevant to this timeline reveal but I always liked placing the story of Zelda II first, not familiar with Skyward sword but is it impossible for it to happen pre-OOT or post-Skyward Sword?

It'd be interesting if we get a future game that involves multiple timeline switching and making it one again, that's an interesting concept I think.


That depends. Even if he created hundreds or tens of hundreds of splits in the timeline for each time he traveled to the past, they'd all end up the same result: a Hyrule without Link to stop Ganon. For all intents and purposes, we could treat them all as one timeline.

#113 Beno

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 01:59 AM

I'm going to take a leap and say this almost completely confirmed for the following reasons:

Here are the headings under the the timeline chapter in the book:
神の国ハイラルの年代記 68
Chronology of God's Country Hyrule
神々の伝承と時の勇者 70
Traditions of the Gods and Hero of Time
ハイラルの衰退と最後の勇者 92
Decline of Hyrule and Last Hero
影の世界と勇者の末裔 110
Twilight Realm and Hero's Descendants
風の勇者と新しい世界 122
Hero of Wind and the New World

We have confirmed pages stating that the child ending of Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and Twilight Princess all take place during "Twilight Realm and Hero's Descendants",

And we have confirmed pages showing the Legend of Zelda and Adventure of Link under "Decline of Hyrule and Last Hero".

I assume that since the "Chronology of God's Country Hyrule" is only 2 pages it has a chart of the timeline that is later gone into detail in the subsequent sections. Of which there happen to be 4 which correspond with what the Korean dude has posted is the timeline, corroborated by talk on Japanese message boards.

This is 99% proof. The only thing we are missing are the (probably 1 paragraph long) explanations between each game bridging the gaps, like we saw between OoT and MM in the pages I translated.

There would have to be an Asian conspiracy otherwise.

#114 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 03:32 AM

So...what's the current timeline looking from this? I'm lost.

#115 eruntalon

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 03:36 AM

So...what's the current timeline looking from this? I'm lost.


This illustrates it nicely.

Posted Image

#116 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 03:57 AM

That's....really fucking dumb.

#117 eruntalon

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 04:21 AM

That's....really fucking dumb.


Other than the... odd placement of FSA, I fail to see anything that qualifies as "fucking dumb".

#118 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 04:37 AM

Oracles is also rally problematic in my personal opinion, and the third timeline has no explanation and is completely arbitrary. Honestly the whole thing seems so fanfiction-y I feel like they threw it together at the last minute.

#119 SOAP

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 05:01 AM

Three prong timelines have existed for a while, the PLT being a very notable one. Not sure if Nintendo is aware of such timelines but it's not like it's unheard of. A third split actually solves how ALttP, TP, and TWw all relate to OoT without concretely relating to each other. And in ay event, it's consistent with ALttP's backstory which pretty much demands that Link not be present so the Knights of Hyrule can take his place.

The only thing that's really kooky is FSA being split from FS and placed after TP. My guess it was done simply for "symetry" or something dumb like that, which is the only part that seemed really lazy. Heck, a pre-OoT FSA would have made more sense to me.

#120 Raien

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 05:32 AM

That's....really fucking dumb.


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