234 replies to this topic

[FDL]

Seems pretty clear to me that it means the adult timeline Ganon was in the Sacred Realm which effected the other timeline. And I don't get the sense he took the Ocarina in urgency, just to keep it safe while he does his own thing. Which explains why Zelda would give it to him in the first place, which MM didn't.

Also, Link technically didn't save the Zoras. He just cured Jabu Jabu and saved a Zora.

Edited by FDL, 20 December 2011 - 06:42 PM.

[Beno]

My reading of it is that yes the Triforce is now split in both timelines, but it does not imply Ganon entered the Sacred Realm, in fact it says he does't. Ganon is sealed in the Sacred Realm in the adult time but is prevented from entering the Sacred Realm on the child timeline. (little does he know there is probably no Triforce inside anyway) The MM's flashback is pretty vague (I'm sure this isn't what they intended when they wrote that scene at the time) but it still works. It doesn't actually contradict it.

Edited by Beno, 20 December 2011 - 06:45 PM.

[SOAP]

This makes me feel vindicated on several things:

1. That Link did go back to the time before he first met Zelda. And thank God that debate is over. Seriously.

2. That he DID have the ToC on the back of his hand in the ending sequence, not some oversight or error as some people thought. Another annoying debate dead and over with.

3. That Navi was the lost friend he was searching for at the beginning of MM, not Saria or Skullkid.

Now I wonder what it means that the reason Link has the ToC still is because Ganon was sealed with the ToP. Does that mean Ganon's sealing and possession of the ToP in the adult timeline transcend the timeline split? Or just his possession of it? As in, in the new timeline, it just randomly shows up inside him because taht's the moment he gained the ToP in the original timeline.

[Beno]

As in, in the new timeline, it just randomly shows up inside him because that's the moment he gained the ToP in the original timeline.

I think that's what it's implying. Hopefully the Twilight Princess page will clear this up a little.

[FDL]

Now I wonder what it means that the reason Link has the ToC still is because Ganon was sealed with the ToP. Does that mean Ganon's sealing and possession of the ToP in the adult timeline transcend the timeline split? Or just his possession of it? As in, in the new timeline, it just randomly shows up inside him because taht's the moment he gained the ToP in the original timeline.

I think it's just his possession of it, if Zelda was watching Ganondorf from the castle gardens and the Sages needed to try and execute him later on.

[Beno]

 Zelda113.jpg   632.74K   21 downloads

The Demon Thief Ganondorf's Execution

Period of the Hero of Time (Child Era):

Twilight Princess:

Dark Clouds Threaten Hyrule
Meanwhile, the Hyrule Kingdom, with Princess Zelda's knowledge of future events from Link, the Hero of Time, accused Ganondorf of allowing the destruction of Hyrule.
Several years later, Ganondorf, the dreaded demon thief who had acquired evil magic, was to be executed at last.

The Arbiter's Grounds and the Mirror of Twilight
In the Arbiter's Grounds, Ganondorf was executed by six sages. However, Ganondorf was elected to not die by the Triforce of Power, and killed one of the sages. Panicking, the sages used the Mirror of Twilight to exile Ganondorf in the Twilight Realm.
At this time the sages were given the mission by the Gods to protect the Mirror of Twilight.

However, Ganondorf's malice went with him into the Twilight Realm, which threw the Twilight Realm into disorder.

Bottom text:

History of the Twilight Realm
In ancient times, the people were deeply religious and the world had long been at peace. But, eventually there was conflict over the Sacred Realm, Hyrule. Among the people, those appeared who excelled at black magic and with their super powerful evil magic tried to govern the Sacred Realm.
The Gods sent the four Light Spirits, who then sealed away the Fused Shadows. Additionally, they used the Mirror of Twilight to exile them to the Twilight Realm so that they would never be able to interact with the World of Light. The people living in the Twilight, came to be called the Twili.

Right Side Column:

Demon Thief Ganondorf
Carrying the proof of the Triforce of Courage, Ganondorf acquired evil magic. This time axis's Ganondorf, who thought the Triforce of the Sacred Realm was untouched, concluded there must have been some disturbance since Link returned home with the Triforce of Courage.

The Sages
More information of this time's sages like their names are unknown. From the emblems depicted on the sage's clothing they are known to be sages of light, forest, fire, water, shadow, and spirit.

Ganondorf's Malice
Ganondorf's malice increased from his wicked heart and hatred.

[FDL]

So does this say Ganondorf figured out the Triforce had been disturbed because he interacted with Link at some point? The Demon Thief Ganondorf section seems to imply that his time as the feared "Demon Thief Ganondorf" was because of something like that.

Edited by FDL, 20 December 2011 - 10:05 PM.

[Beno]

It definitely implies that he somehow how found out about Link having the Triforce of Courage. How he did, it obviously doesn't say. But it could've have been by interacting with him.

As for the "Demon Thief Ganondorf" part, I'm reconsidering having translated it that way. I probably should have translated it just as "Evil Thief" since "Demon" sounds so strong. But I think after realizing that he had destroyed Hyrule in a parallel future that would've been enough to label him an "evil thief" or "demon thief".

[FDL]

Well, NoA translated it as Demon Thief as well. Interesting, really seems like no one person was totally right about what they had in mind for Twilight Princess' backstory...

Edited by FDL, 20 December 2011 - 10:19 PM.

[Beno]

And the last paragraph on the Majora's Mask section:



On the night of the 3rd day Clocktown celebrated safely and enjoyed the festival. The people Link had taken care of were happy.

After that in Termina, his subsequent whereabouts are unknown.



I probably wont bother translating the rest of the Majora's Mask part for a little while. I'm burned out.

[FDL]

Thanks a lot for your hard work, Beno. It's a shame they don't elaborate on Link's whereabouts after MM, I was hoping they'd go into the references to him made in TP and whether or not he's the Hero's Spirit/Shade.

[Beno]

No problem. I just can't wait til someone gets a hold of some scans for the full book, so we can figure out exactly what all this tome has to offer.

Maybe the next pages on Twilight Princess will shed a little more light on the Hero's Shade?

[Jarsh]

Well, NoA translated it as Demon Thief as well. Interesting, really seems like no one person was totally right about what they had in mind for Twilight Princess' backstory...

I argued for a series of events pretty similar to this on the Skyward Sword boards at Gamespot a little while back. Since there was little evidence, I had to cease the debate, so I couldn't be happier at all these revelations. Thank you, Beno.

[Snow]

Thanks for the great work on the translations, Beno.

Demon Thief Ganondorf
Carrying the proof of the Triforce of Courage, Ganondorf acquired evil magic. This time axis's Ganondorf, who thought the Triforce of the Sacred Realm was untouched, concluded there must have been some disturbance since Link returned home with the Triforce of Courage.

Slight correction here: shouldn't it be Triforce of Power, not Courage? Unless I'm mistaken, this is the section you're referring to:

力のトライフォースの証を持ち、
魔力を身につけた。

[Beno]

Thanks for the great work on the translations, Beno.

Demon Thief Ganondorf
Carrying the proof of the Triforce of Courage, Ganondorf acquired evil magic. This time axis's Ganondorf, who thought the Triforce of the Sacred Realm was untouched, concluded there must have been some disturbance since Link returned home with the Triforce of Courage.

Slight correction here: shouldn't it be Triforce of Power, not Courage? Unless I'm mistaken, this is the section you're referring to:

力のトライフォースの証を持ち、
魔力を身につけた。

Argh!!! Thank you, Snow! Yes, that definitely should read Triforce of Power. ><

[River Zora]

Huzzah for the knowledge of when Link was sent back to et al, but in terms of the ever raging TP Triforce debate, this bit:

Demon Thief Ganondorf
Carrying the proof of the Triforce of Power, Ganondorf acquired evil magic. This time axis's Ganondorf, who thought the Triforce of the Sacred Realm was untouched, concluded there must have been some disturbance since Link returned home with the Triforce of Courage.

Suggests it was not to do with AT Ganon touching the Triforce, but to do with Zelda's sending Link back with the Triforce. Of course, this is still presented as Ganon's hypothesising, but it seems as good an idea as any.

[Beno]

Huzzah for the knowledge of when Link was sent back to et al, but in terms of the ever raging TP Triforce debate, this bit:

Demon Thief Ganondorf
Carrying the proof of the Triforce of Power, Ganondorf acquired evil magic. This time axis's Ganondorf, who thought the Triforce of the Sacred Realm was untouched, concluded there must have been some disturbance since Link returned home with the Triforce of Courage.

Suggests it was not to do with AT Ganon touching the Triforce, but to do with Zelda's sending Link back with the Triforce. Of course, this is still presented as Ganon's hypothesising, but it seems as good an idea as any.

AT Ganon split the Triforce and thus passed it along to Link and Zelda. When Link was sent back by Zelda's magic to the past, Link kept his part of the Triforce, thus keeping the Triforce split in the past even though the Sacred Realm had not been breached. (at least that's how I interpreted it) I think what that quote is trying to say is that Ganondorf, who would still be plotting to get into the Sacred Realm, realizes that something is up since Link has the Triforce of Courage mark on his hand. (however he finds that out) Or maybe he even realizes it when he is confronted by Hyrule with his misdeeds in the future? It's hard to know how much knowledge any of these characters really have of the working of the Triforce.

[River Zora]

AT Ganon split the Triforce and thus passed it along to Link and Zelda. When Link was sent back by Zelda's magic to the past, Link kept his part of the Triforce, thus keeping the Triforce split in the past even though the Sacred Realm had not been breached. (at least that's how I interpreted it).

Which is exactly what I said really I just disagree with the Triforce splitting in one timeline affecting the other, I see no reason why a split timeline wouldn't split the Triforce and Sacred Realm too- especially seeing as we now know that Link somehow had duplicate ToCs- one split up in the AT, the other returning to the CT with him causing presumably the infamous 'divine prank'.

[Beno]

AT Ganon split the Triforce and thus passed it along to Link and Zelda. When Link was sent back by Zelda's magic to the past, Link kept his part of the Triforce, thus keeping the Triforce split in the past even though the Sacred Realm had not been breached. (at least that's how I interpreted it).

Which is exactly what I said really I just disagree with the Triforce splitting in one timeline affecting the other, I see no reason why a split timeline wouldn't split the Triforce and Sacred Realm too- especially seeing as we now know that Link somehow had duplicate ToCs- one split up in the AT, the other returning to the CT with him causing presumably the infamous 'divine prank'.

But if Link was to take the Triforce of Courage back with him to the past then there would have been another Triforce of Courage with the rest of the Triforce in the Sacred Realm. So we would have ended up with a Tetraforce. I would rather the Triforce just remain unaffected totally in the Sacred Realm in the past and Link not brought his piece back with him, but oh well.

[Beno]

Sorry to double post, but...

Well, Kotaku is reporting on the official timeline:

http://kotaku.com/58...zelda-timeline/

Looks like someone in Korea bought it and wrote out the chart. I still would like to see a photo or scans of the chart in Japanese before I believe it myself. But very interesting, indeed...

[River Zora]

Sorry to double post, but...

Well, Kotaku is reporting on the official timeline:

http://kotaku.com/5869993/this-might-actually-be-the-official-zelda-timeline/

Looks like someone in Korea bought it and wrote out the chart. I still would like to see a photo or scans of the chart in Japanese before I believe it myself. But very interesting, indeed...

That's not bad at all... EXCEPT FOR WHAT THE HECK'S GOING ON WITH FSA??? That is surely the worst of all the places to put it? What on earth is that? On the only timeline a similar oft theorised same mirror has already been destroyed, the only timeline that doesn't need another Ganon, away from both FS AND aLttP... Hopefully that bit's a mistype and it happens pre-OoT or on the classic line. Seriously, ANYWHERE but there.

[Hooded Warrior]

I kind of hope that is the timeline yet I also don't want it to be.

The idea that ALTTP is on a timeline where OOT Link failed worries me. And now it creates the possibility that Nintendo could create a fourth split somewhere down the line. I can easily see Nintendo come up with a timeline where the AOL gameover screen causes another split and I really don't want to see that.

Edited by Hooded Warrior, 21 December 2011 - 07:01 AM.

[Person]

Honestly it sounds like bull to me, because there are no pages to back it up. The table of contents doesn't mention anything about ALttP at all.

[Smertios]

That's not bad at all... EXCEPT FOR WHAT THE HECK'S GOING ON WITH FSA??? That is surely the worst of all the places to put it? What on earth is that? On the only timeline a similar oft theorised same mirror has already been destroyed, the only timeline that doesn't need another Ganon, away from both FS AND aLttP... Hopefully that bit's a mistype and it happens pre-OoT or on the classic line. Seriously, ANYWHERE but there.

Are you kidding? That timeline is terrible

The idea that ALTTP is on a timeline where OOT Link failed worries me. And now it creates the possibility that Nintendo could create a fourth split somewhere down the line. I can easily see Nintendo come up with a timeline where the AOL gameover screen causes another split and I really don't want to see that.

Yeah, the whole failing part seems weird. The best explanation for a third branch would be an extra adult one in which Link stayed, instead of being sent back in time by Zelda...

Honestly it sounds like bull to me, because there are no pages to back it up. The table of contents doesn't mention anything about ALttP at all.

I agree with that. And even if the source is telling the truth, there is always the possibility that they simply added the information on the classic games after they had dealt with both the CT and the AT, and the Korean guy misinterpreted it.. How he would have come up with FSA after TP would be a mystery, though..

[Person]

That timeline reminds me of the days of Zelda.com with crap like LA taking place in the middle of AoL.

[River Zora]

That's not bad at all... EXCEPT FOR WHAT THE HECK'S GOING ON WITH FSA??? That is surely the worst of all the places to put it? What on earth is that? On the only timeline a similar oft theorised same mirror has already been destroyed, the only timeline that doesn't need another Ganon, away from both FS AND aLttP... Hopefully that bit's a mistype and it happens pre-OoT or on the classic line. Seriously, ANYWHERE but there.

Are you kidding? That timeline is terrible

what's terrible about it other than FSA? The classics line is lazy on Nintendo's part, but nothing intrinsically wrong with it. I agree the 'destined' what if Link wasn't sent back works better, but a third branch whatever.

The order of the branches is fine, albeit unimaginitive... EXCEPT FOR FSA.

[Person]

If this is fake, I honestly think the Korean guy hadn't played it and stuck it there for funsies.

[SOAP]

OMG! The Progressive Legends Timeline! I feel good about this.

Also, I had a feeling SS would lead into TMC and naturally FSA would follow. But if this is fake I'll feel like an ass.

[Hooded Warrior]

Regardless of whether this is fake or not, I wouldn't be surprise if Nintendo did put some of the games on another third timeline.

I think it's clear that Nintendo has no idea what to do with the storylines of the Nes Zelda games, ALTTP, LA, and the Oracle games.

The storylines in the Nes games were made when the series first came out. LOZ story is pretty simple. AOL story on the other hand was originally meant to explain why every princess in Hyrule has the name Zelda, and the sleeping Zelda was meant to be the first princess Zelda but I don't think that Nintendo cares anymore.

ALTTP was meant to be a prequel to LOZ, and it's backstory(the Imprisoning War)was meant to be OOT, but that's clearly not the case anymore.

And I'm not going to ever bother talking about LA and OOX.

Edited by Hooded Warrior, 23 December 2011 - 12:08 AM.

[FDL]

Honestly it sounds like bull to me, because there are no pages to back it up. The table of contents doesn't mention anything about ALttP at all.

It could be bull regardless, but I'm pretty sure the "Downfall of Hyrule" section is about the classic games.