502 replies to this topic

[SOAP]

More people hvae seen a statue of the Virgin Mary cry tears of blood. I forget what it's called but lots of of people can see the same hallucination. The mind plays tricks on on us and it's worse witha whole crowd. That's why eyewitnesses alone aren't always reliable.

[Korhend]

Need I bring it up again? I think Jimmu can lay claim to the only miracle backed up by non-believers.

[Fyxe]

No. He got it. If I really don't accept His authority and refuse to go to hell then I miss out on paradise by default. But like I said earlier, if the rules are the way they are then I can't say the idea of heaven excites me much.

But that wasn't what he was saying, that's all. He was saying you would stick to your guns no matter what, even if God came down personally and poked you in the eye, or if you knew you were jumping into a big pit of flame or something. Conviction is one thing, but completely unwavering conviction is another, that's all I was pointing out.

Ok, I'm not gonna argue over split hairs. I know you know what I meant by those statements.

I did more than just argue over split hairs. O.o'' But, fine, ignore my comments completely if you wish.

[Doopliss]

Need I bring it up again? I think Jimmu can lay claim to the only miracle backed up by non-believers.

What is it about?

[Nevermind]

But on what basis? You believe because you want to believe? Because it makes your life (and death) easier? That's the "easy way out", and quite frankly, I have little respect for those who cannot handle the truth, or live their life’s without a "Guardian Angel" (Stop saying God did *this* for you, damnit! (PS. This last sentence was not directed at anyone specifically)).

I believe because I think it's true. That's why it's called BELIEVING. But you know what, respect me or not, I don't care, but do tell me one thing. HOW THE FUCK does it make life easier???? Am I missing something here? Is my life meant to be some kind of fake paradise because I'm a believer? Fuck no! We all go through the same bullshit in this degenerative world as anyone else does. The difference is that we believe in things that you think are crazy.

[Doopliss]

Lazurukeel, it is easy to realise that God makes your life easier. When you die you believe that God will take you with him to live forever, while we believe that we will simply cease to exist. You think that there's someone who's protecting you while we are alone. There's someone who has determined what is good and what is bad while we need to think about it and determine it basing on reason. You think that there's a God who created eveything, on the other hand, we must try to realize how everything started by ourselves. Do you really think that it's easier for us?

[Korhend]

What is it about?

The divine wind. A sudden typhoon that whiped out the Mongolian Invasion fleet heading towards Japan. Unlike Jesus's miracles, both the Shintaoists and the Mongols believe this.

[Nevermind]

Haha, that doesn't exactly make life easier. It just brings difficulty to different areas of life. I never said it was easier for you guys though. Life never is. Nothing worth having comes easy. I'm just saying...life is not any easier for me.

[SOAP]

To switch sides here, not everyone believes in God because some ancient book told them to or they're scared of ceasing to exist when die. I DO in fact believe in God (I just have a bizarre love/hate realtionship with him). I'm not afraid of death or no longer existing if I die. If that's the case, so be it. Living forever sounds like it could get boring really quick anyways. I do not believe in him "just in case he's real." I prefer facts over bedtime stories. I believe in things like logic and reason. And I hate when religious people tell me bad things happen to me cos God is testing me or whatever just as much as you do. But there are things beyond that just too much of big slap in the face from God himself that logic by itself can't explain. If there's one thing I refuse to believe in, is mere coincidences.

And what the hell? Life is not any easier for a Christian, or any one of any other religion for that matter just because they believe they'll go onto a better place after they die. They still have to live in the same cold hard reality as everyone else. They have to struggle with their beliefs. You don't think [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of them don't think it'd be easier to just not believe? To be like everyone else and believe that when you die that's just it? If anything it'd be easier just give in and join rest of secular society. You'd be surprised how many Christians wonder if they're wasting their time believing God. Why would so many hold on to their beliefs despite all that if it's just a mere "crutch."

[Goose]

I'm just saying...life is not any easier for me.

Or me. It makes things very hard, because if we do follow our religion, we have to be in this world, but not of this world. We have to be kind when we dont want to. We have to forgive when we dont want to. We have to follow all sorts of diffrerent rules, even let people insult what we believe. No its not easy, it was so easy when I could just conform to the norms of soceity, like you lot.

Would I ever stop. No.

But it aint easy.

Edited by Goose, 30 June 2006 - 09:41 PM.

[Alakhriveion]

No its not easy, it was so easy when I could just conform to the norms of soceity, like you lot.

Who the what? You cats are the majority in every country people here are from, man.

[Nevermind]

Only by name.

[Selena]

Er... what do you mean by that, exactly? XP



As far as I know, the numbers speak for themselves.

[Goose]

At least in Australia, about 10% of the population is christian, if that. Its more about 5%.

[SOAP]

He means that are [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] people who claim to be Christian but don't even know what it means to be Christian. These are people who think as long as they're not gay and say "Praise Lord" Halileuh" a thousand times they'll get into Heaven. Those aren't real Christians. They're posers. That'll be like counting metrosexuals into the number of homosexuals in the US.

Edited by SOAP, 30 June 2006 - 10:07 PM.

[Alakhriveion]

No True Scotsman fallacy.

[Nevermind]

It also includes people who go "Well....I was baptised as a Christian, so..." and then they put that down on the census, and that's where the numbers come from.

[Alakhriveion]

Doesn't matter. When you say Christians are the minority, and only count as Christians people who conform to your stardards for ideology and orthodoxy, what you're really saying is you're not exactly like everyone else. This is true for everyone, everywhere, ever.

[Nevermind]

Yeah that's true. But saying I'm black don't make me black.

Dawg.

[SOAP]

Doesn't matter. When you say Christians are the minority, and only count as Christians people who conform to your stardards for ideology and orthodoxy, what you're really saying is you're not exactly like everyone else. This is true for everyone, everywhere, ever.

Well I guess I'm heterosexual then. Even though I find men more sexuallly attractive and the reproductive organs of a woman scare the bejeezus outta me, I'm heterosual since all I have to do is say I'm straight to be counted as one. Anyone who says differently is just forcing their ideology and orthodoxy of what a heterosual is on me.

[Selena]

Well, you can always go door to door and interrogate people about how much they believe and decide 'if they count' or not, buuut that might make things a bit more complicated. Especially since some sects of Christianity itself sometimes condemn other sects and claim they're wrong anyway.


Yeah, let's just stick to what data we have, for sanity's sake.

[Nevermind]

Well, yeah I could. But honestly, I couldn't really care any less. I mean, I've got my morals, and my perceived outcome. What's in my head is what matters to me.

[Korhend]

Yeah that's true. But saying I'm black don't make me black.

Dawg.

Yes but saying someones not black does not make them so either.

Well I guess I'm heterosexual then. Even though I find men more sexuallly attractive and the reproductive organs of a woman scare the bejeezus outta me, I'm heterosual since all I have to do is say I'm straight to be counted as one. Anyone who says differently is just forcing their ideology and orthodoxy of what a heterosual is on me.

The alternative is that your not gay because you don't go to work wearing a pride flag as a cape and assless pants. Just because someone doesn't conform to someones standard as a christian, doesn't mean they're not a christian anymore.

[Nevermind]

I guess it all comes down to personal standards then. I mean, I know white african guys who would be "blacker" than any afro-american I've ever seen. Ever.

[SOAP]

Dude, we know what you guys are saying but don't you think you guys are being a little harsh accusing me and Laz trying to narrow Christianity to our ideal of what a Christian is. Neither Laz or I are hardly what you call orthodox Christians ourselves. What we're talking about is people who say they're Christian just because they go to church or because they're raised in a Christian upbringing. They're not Christian in heart. They're more Christian than if I were to say I was Muslim but never really bother to even find out what Islam is in the first place.

[Korhend]

I guess it all comes down to personal standards then. I mean, I know white african guys who would be "blacker" than any afro-american I've ever seen. Ever.

no it comes down to self-classification. Thats why you fill out your own census form rather then a jury of your peers. Let me put it this way, would you except it if Arunma was to decide for you that your not christian? After all, you might not live up to his standards. This is why things are done by self classification.

[Nevermind]

No, but if I said I was but didn't act like it, and assuming I wasn't too stubborn to see it, I would probably admit that maybe I was not Christian.

[Alakhriveion]

Well I guess I'm heterosexual then. Even though I find men more sexuallly attractive and the reproductive organs of a woman scare the bejeezus outta me, I'm heterosual since all I have to do is say I'm straight to be counted as one. Anyone who says differently is just forcing their ideology and orthodoxy of what a heterosual is on me.

But sexuality isn't a matter of belief. You're gay because you have sex with men or want to, you're a Christian because you believe in the Christian god. If you can show these hordes of people claiming to be Christians don't really believe, we've got a case, and if you could show that everyone who eats porridge with sugar holds Mongolian citizenship, we've got another one. But as long as they believe (and I can't see them claiming to if they don't, at least not in such numbers), you can't say the majority aren't Christians.

Edited by Alakhriveion, 30 June 2006 - 11:06 PM.

[TheAvengerLever]

Well I guess I'm heterosexual then. Even though I find men more sexuallly attractive and the reproductive organs of a woman scare the bejeezus outta me, I'm heterosual since all I have to do is say I'm straight to be counted as one. Anyone who says differently is just forcing their ideology and orthodoxy of what a heterosual is on me.

Well...one can be homosexual and be a christian too.

Edited by TheAvengerButton, 30 June 2006 - 11:14 PM.

[Nevermind]

There are ways to test peoples' faith. However they're none too.....ethical...


And would certainly result in a worldwide manhunt and one's jailing or death sentence.