191 replies to this topic

[Korhend]

Heh, anyone else remember that one episode of twighlight zone where god would grant a man anything he wanted in order to punish him? Maybe thats why hes not finding pencils.

[Nevermind]

Hmm, sounds pretty good, but no. How did it work as punishment?

[Korhend]

Well anything the guy tried doing was to easy. He couldn't play craps because the number would always come up right. He would always draw a straight flush in Poker. No one would disagree with him. Easy to say its not as rich of a world that way.

[Nevermind]

Oh. Hey come to think of it, I think I've seen something like that. If it wasn't that, it may have been an Outer Limits with a similar story. Very true though. Can't appreciate the good without the bad. Even Butters knows that.

[arunma]

Not quite right, I'm not really talking about religion, but the definition of the word faith.
...
We believe in God and his son Jesus (or know God and Jesus, if you like)...
We have no faith...
If we had faith we would have the power of the Holy Spirit...and thus be able to perform miracles, exorcisms, healing people, lifting mountains, raise the dead and other such things.

Well like I said, people in impoverished nations do perform miracles. Would you say that they have faith?

I was also going to question his definition of 'false religions'

Any religion other than your own be perceived as false but you don't have to label them as false as if they truly are, there's no way you could know for sure.

By "false religions," I'm referring to such things as Hinduism, Judaism, wicca, paganism, and any other religion that denies the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the supremacy of the Father. You say that I shouldn't label religions false, since I have no way of ascertaining the truth of my assumptions. But you must remember that I take the Bible as Gospel truth (so to speak), and so in my own mind, I am convinced that all of these religions are false. Besides that, it would be blasphemous for me to confess that any non-Christian religion is true. Surely you wouldn't have me do that!

[Fyxe]

You could do it as to not be a complete jerk towards anyone who doesn't subscribe to your beliefs. If you think they're false, fine, whatever, but keep it to yourself, there's no need to throw the label 'false religions' around in such a pretentious and concieted manner.

[Nevermind]

By "false religions," I'm referring to such things as....Judaism...

Nonetheless, those who follow this religion are referred to as "God's Chosen People", and you are here calling them false.

[Showsni]

If a person doesn't believe in a religion, then, to them, it's false. Why should that insult someone? If someone tells me they don't believe in Christianity, I wouldn't be insulted.

[Nevermind]

Yeah but there's a difference between saying "I don't believe in your religion" and "your religion is a load of bull".

[Isis]

Yes, I couldn't have said it better. I'm sure Christians wouldn't like it if we went around categorizing their religion as fictional.

[Steel Samurai]

Yes, I couldn't have said it better. I'm sure Christians wouldn't like it if we went around categorizing their religion as fictional.

Hasn't that been done on this very forum? Besides, Arunma didn't directly say that all of those religions were a load of bull, she said that in her mind they were not true.

With the whole finding a pencil, help with exams, thing: God answers every prayer we offer up to him, but the answer isn't always yes. He does all things for His glory, and, although I think sometimes he does make concessions for us, will answer our prayers accordingly. For instance, I applied several months ago for a job at a supermarket, one which I have not yet gotten (on the waiting list) I was a bit frustrated at this, but then, as I went in for another interview on thursday, it came to me. I love asian people, and there was an asian girl in the interview room (it was a group interview). It came to me that maybe God didn't want me to get the job at the other supermarket because there was someone at another job that I was supposed to meet. Now, it turned out that that asian girl was applying for a job at a different store, but the idea stayed. God knows a heckuva lot more about what's good for us than we do.

[arunma]

You could do it as to not be a complete jerk towards anyone who doesn't subscribe to your beliefs. If you think they're false, fine, whatever, but keep it to yourself, there's no need to throw the label 'false religions' around in such a pretentious and concieted manner.

My aim here isn't to be pretentious or conceited. I think that the religions I mentioned are not true, and that makes them false. I'm not sure how I can make that statement less offensive.

Nonetheless, those who follow this religion are referred to as "God's Chosen People", and you are here calling them false.

That isn't an orthodox Christian belief. Christianity has always maintained that the church is God's chosen people, and that we are the faithful remnant of Israel who received the Christ. The belief that modern Jews are God's chosen people is a doctrine that was only set forth by John Darby circa 1830. It's true that Jews call themselves God's chosen people. But since I'm not a Jew, I don't believe that.

Yes, I couldn't have said it better. I'm sure Christians wouldn't like it if we went around categorizing their religion as fictional.

Well, I'm used to it by now, so I wouldn't be offended. As I see it, if someone says that the Gospel is fictional, and does not repent for that belief, then he will suffer for that sin in hell. I'm not allowed to add to the vengeance of God.

[Alakhriveion]

You could do it as to not be a complete jerk towards anyone who doesn't subscribe to your beliefs. If you think they're false, fine, whatever, but keep it to yourself, there's no need to throw the label 'false religions' around in such a pretentious and concieted manner.

WTD? We don't believe in things we don't believe in. Arun thinks other religions are false because he's a Christian, I believe all religions are false because I'm a Pinko, Hero of Winds (should he ever return) thinks I'm a jackass because he's a neocon. Being tolerant of other ideologies doesn't mean believing in them. And we're allowed to have opinions, no? Of course we are, because I'm in charge here and that was only phrased a question because it sounded better than a statement.

[Fyxe]

If common courtesy is that hard to understand, then forget it. This isn't a matter of word choice. You can argue that the word is technically correct or not, that doesn't change whether it's offensive or not. Like I said, if he believes all other religions to be incorrect or whatever, then fine, sure, that's his deal, but he shouldn't label them 'false' as if his word is gospel.

It's not a question of what he believes in, it's a question of throwing labels around like he somehow *knows* the truth.

[Alakhriveion]

He believes in what he believes, just like everyone here. We ALL claim to know the truth- but in reality, nobody else here does. We accept that. We deal with it. To him, all other religions are false. Argue it if you like.

[Fyxe]

I think my issue with what he said is very clear, and I don't even know what you're trying to say. Yes, he believes in what he believes. Humans are humans. The ceiling is above. The sky is blue.

If somebody here stated that all black people were criminals, would you stand up and say 'oh, that's ok for him to say that, he believes what he believes'?

[Alakhriveion]

No. But if we're not allowed to say anyone else is wrong, there is no Contro. There is no discourse.

[Emiko]

You should not judge others in their beliefs, saying that they are "False Religion" without looking at your own beliefs..

False religion is the religious beliefs that do not coinside with what God set how he wanted to be worship. More beliefs today hide what God set for his people to do..some without even knowing that they are doing it. The bible was given to us to follow as a guide; the word Christian means to be like Christ. Christ is the equivalent of the hebrew Ma-shi'ach (messiah) meaning "Anointed One"

So a true Christian would act and do as Jesus did, but since we are all imperfect, unlike Jesus, we can just do the best we can.

There are [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of things the bible doesnt say...it doesnt specifically say "Dont smoke..dont do drugs..' but it does say that our life is a gift from God...and who would destroy a precious gift? Other things it does mention specifcally. For instance Idolotry, this one no one really pays mind to...The worship of Idols. The use of an image in worship is an idol...how many religions of the world use statues of Jesus or Mary or Crosses in worship...the bible says those are wrong...

[Alakhriveion]

The bible... doesnt specifically say "Dont smoke..dont do drugs."

Some would argue it says "DO do drugs." But I won't go there right now.

[Emiko]

Some would argue it says "DO do drugs."  But I won't go there right now.

*ears perk up*
WHERE?!?!?!?

^___^ j/k

[arunma]

If common courtesy is that hard to understand, then forget it. This isn't a matter of word choice. You can argue that the word is technically correct or not, that doesn't change whether it's offensive or not.

You have said yourself that this isn't a matter of word choice; you find my very belief offensive. It surely is your right to find my belief offensive, but ought not to prevent me from expressing it anyway. As Alak said, if we never offended each other with our statement of belief, then there would be no Contro. You are here because you want to debate people who disagree with you.

Like I said, if he believes all other religions to be incorrect or whatever, then fine, sure, that's his deal, but he shouldn't label them 'false' as if his word is gospel.

I'm not making this up. The Gospel, as well as the rest of the Bible, says that non-Christian religions are false, and that adherents of these religions will perish in hell. If you believe in the Bible, then there's no way around the exclusivity of salvation through Christ. Do you want me to stop talking about my religion? If so, then I wonder why I would be in this forum to begin with.

If somebody here stated that all black people were criminals, would you stand up and say 'oh, that's ok for him to say that, he believes what he believes'?

Yes, I would defend a person's right to say that all black people are criminals. Now, we all know that racism is evil, so if this person simultaneously claimed to be a Christian, I would defend the faith and prove to him that he stands condemned. But so long as a hypothetical racist doesn't express contradictory beliefs, he's free to say whatever he wants. In fact, the ACLU, which is comprised largely of Jews, has defended the KKK's right to hold public marches. The price of freedom of speech is having to tolerate vulgur and filthy beliefs such as racism. Now, freedom of speech is not an ordinance of heaven (in fact, the Law of Moses had restrictions on one's right to free speech), so if you wish to argue that free speech is a bad idea, I'd certainly entertain such a discussion.

By the way, I'm not white, so I'm well aware of the ramifications of racism (not that white people can't also be aware of the negative consequences).

So a true Christian would act and do as Jesus did, but since we are all imperfect, unlike Jesus, we can just do the best we can.

Jesus harshly criticized the leaders of the scribes and the Pharisees, and he condemned polytheism. He also said that whoever did not believe in his Name would be condemned. Even if we take his words absolutely literally, I am still right to say that Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, and all polytheistic religions are false. You just might be able to get away with saying that Islam isn't a false religion, but that is another story.

*ears perk up*
WHERE?!?!?!?

^___^ j/k

My guess is that Alak will tell you that Jews in Jesus' day smoked marijuana. But Alak is a pinko commie, so what does he know?

*Hides the fact that I sympathize with Alak's economic views*

[Alakhriveion]

*ears perk up*
WHERE?!?!?!?

^___^ j/k

http://www.ccguide.org.uk/bible.php has some stuff on that.

[Emiko]

yea but can you really be to sure about things you read online? have you asked others about the meaning of the word used? even go to a dictionary-translator?

[Fyxe]

I'm not making this up.  The Gospel, as well as the rest of the Bible, says that non-Christian religions are false, and that adherents of these religions will perish in hell.  If you believe in the Bible, then there's no way around the exclusivity of salvation through Christ.  Do you want me to stop talking about my religion?  If so, then I wonder why I would be in this forum to begin with.

Again, expressing your belief is not the issue. The issue is speaking as if you *know* what you are saying is true. In fact, mentioning 'false religions' in the first place was not required, but you did it anyway. You could of simply said 'religions which I, as a Christian, personally consider to be incorrect', or *something* like that. Or not said it at all, and instead just saying 'non-Christian religions'. Your belief was not the issue, it was the fact that you stated your belief as if it were true, in a needless manner.

[Cendamooose]

I only know one religous truth in this universe: All of Fyxe's avatars have titanic boobs.

[Showsni]

Now, we all know that racism is evil,

You've done it again arunma!! Won't all the racists on this site be offended???
And yet Fyxe et al aren't jumping on this quote...
If arunma believes that those religions are false, it's hypocritical of him not to say so, but to instead try and make it seem as if he thinks anyone might be alright with another religion. Pussy footing around the words, denying your beliefs, to make others more comfortable, isn't really very good. If he'd said "false (IMO) religions" then would you be happier? We can just assume that anything he says is in his opinion, though.

[Fyxe]

I only know one religous truth in this universe: All of Fyxe's avatars have titanic boobs.

Oh, but you forget...



Non-titanic. Perky, but not titanic.

Showsni, I would of jumped on the whole evil thing but that would of opened up a whole new discussion about the concept of 'evil', most likely.

Also, I've already said that this isn't just 'pussy footing' around words, the whole thing didn't need to be said in the first place but he said it anyway. That's more than just word choice.

[Cendamooose]

Okay so 99% of the time!
But whats it with you kids and thinking?

Back in my days we'd just run around in circles and pretend we were headless chickens..

[Showsni]

How do you know we're not all grizzled 90 year olds?

[Doopliss]

Ever considered that people who don't pray often have the same things happen anyway? Thousands of people do well in exams, find things they lost, and do not have bad dreams.

Besides, those are all terribly menial things.  If God is all powerful, then should he not also aid with the big issues?

I'm sure thousands upon millions of people have prayed not to die and suffered at Death's hand anyway.

Proably he passess because he unconsciously acquires confidence in him self.

If you have enough faith, though, God will send an angel to catch you - apparently. Having never fallen off any cliffs, I can't tell if I have enough faith.

curiously people just have enough faith when they really didn't fall.

He believes in what he believes, just like everyone here. We ALL claim to know the truth- but in reality, nobody else here does. We accept that. We deal with it. To him, all other religions are false. Argue it if you like.

Not exactly, I don't believe in god, but I can't firmly state he doesn't exist. I just believe it's highly, highly probable that he dpesn't exist.

I'm not making this up. The Gospel, as well as the rest of the Bible, says that non-Christian religions are false, and that adherents of these religions will perish in hell. If you believe in the Bible, then there's no way around the exclusivity of salvation through Christ. Do you want me to stop talking about my religion? If so, then I wonder why I would be in this forum to begin with.

That's why the bible is almost as dangerous as the Constitution.