191 replies to this topic

[spunky-monkey]

I read in the New Testament that Jesus’ disciples were annoyed as to why they could not banish an evil spirit, but Jesus told them “Because you don’t have any faith. If you had a mustard seed of faith you could move mountains, nothing would be impossible for you.” I sadly realised that I, have no faith in Jesus, or in God. I’m just using that word far too loosely because who really does have faith?
We believe/know about Jesus but do we have any faith in him? We cannot say we have faith because we would be lying.
You could say that Faith and Logic are at war with each other, faith says if you believe you can plant trees on the surface of the ocean…logic says don’t be so daft. Faith says you can survive a 1,000ft drop…logic says you’ll hit the ground with such speed you’ll explode.
We see death and destruction and told that we can stop this with a little faith, yet the reality is we’re powerless to change the world around us.
Since none of us can do these miracles that defy the fundamental laws of the Universe I’m thinking that sin (or fear of death) prevents us from defeating malevolent forces or taming Nature...I'm really not sure anymore...:s:

[arunma]

Of course Christians today have very little faith. Because of this, we should be chasing after God all the more, not giving up.

[Isis]

Yeah, but we can't help it if we have bit of common sense. Faith isn't just believing in something strange happening XD It's means believing in God and knowing that he's not going to follow up every silly request you have, just the important ones, whether or not they feel important at the time.

[Flint]

I read in the New Testament that Jesus’ disciples were annoyed as to why they could not banish an evil spirit, but Jesus told them “Because you don’t have any faith. If you had a mustard seed of faith you could move mountains, nothing would be impossible for you.”

Is it not possible that sarcasm existed back then?

[Doopliss]

Flint! Remember that the ones who write the bible where inspired by the HOLY Spirit. The bible is perfect.

[Flint]

Flint! Remember that the ones who write the bible where inspired by the HOLY Spirit. The bible is perfect.

Oh yeah. Forgot. Sorry.

[Isis]

Doopliss, mocking the Bible in contro, what next?

[Korhend]

Or perhaps its more likely that Jesus meant in a figurative sense. The Boxer Rebels had a lot of faith that their prayers protected them from western bullets, and many of them charged straight into musket fire. Guess what happened?

[Goose]

To Claim that nobody has any faith is a strong claim, but a bit unfounded. We may not be able to do miracles, but that doesn't mean we dont believe all the same.

What do you define as a miracle?

[Showsni]

Something done through God?

knowing that he's not going to follow up every silly request you have, just the important ones, whether or not they feel important at the time.

Why not? If He's all powerful, then it's no skin off his nose. I pray that God will help me do well before every exam I sit, I pray that I'll find things I've lost, I pray that I won't have bad dreams before I go to sleep... And often, it works.

[Isis]

I don't pray that often, and those things don't end up happening to me. Do you honestly believe He cares about your mundane needs when there's so much more important things out there, that He doesn't even tend to either?

[spunky-monkey]

What do you define as a miracle?

Well, it’s arguably an event that contravenes the laws of physics. That's why Life isn't a miracle at all because it’s perfectly within the laws of nature, otherwise Life wouldn't exist at all.

Back to Faith, Faith is your belief or absolute trust in Jesus to God. Remember Jesus taught Peter to walk on water, he doubted himself and began to sink. Jesus said that now the Holy Spirit was given to us we could perform miracles greater than when Jesus walked the Earth!

Point to all this is: - Only the faithful will be saved.

If we can't do great things then we must assume that we are not faithful, are we missing something? Was there a method to becoming faithful that was lost in time?

[Showsni]

Responding to Isis:

God loves all of us.

Matthew 10:29-31: Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

[Isis]

What's that supposed to mean? That you are of more value to God than anyone else?

[arunma]

What's that supposed to mean? That you are of more value to God than anyone else?

Yes, actually. God certainly does value humans more than anyone else. And if he feeds even the birds, Jesus says that he will certainly take care of the needs of those who believe in his Son.

To Claim that nobody has any faith is a strong claim, but a bit unfounded. We may not be able to do miracles, but that doesn't mean we dont believe all the same.

Well, he has a point. Many cradle Christians these days are converting to false religions. If you ever come to the non-Christian religions section of Christian Forums, you'll find that there is no short supply of Christian apostates to Hinduism and Buddhism. Of course, this isn't universally true. At the same time that people in America apostize to false religion, South Koreans, Chinese, and many other people are joyfully receiving the Gospel.

Strangely enough, the claim is often made that healing miracles, exorcisms, and other such things usually only happen in countries outside the Western world. Since faith in the West is at a low point right now, that makes sense to me. Just a few weeks ago, some college students at my campus were mocking a preacher, and a South African Christian harshly rebuked them for living in luxury and forsaking God. So when Ricky says that "we" have no faith, I would amend that statement so that it refers primarily to us Westerners.

[Flint]

"False religions"?

[Isis]

I was also going to question his definition of 'false religions'

Any religion other than your own be perceived as false but you don't have to label them as false as if they truly are, there's no way you could know for sure.

[spunky-monkey]

So when Ricky says that "we" have no faith, I would amend that statement so that it refers primarily to us Westerners.

Not quite right, I'm not really talking about religion, but the definition of the word faith.
...
We believe in God and his son Jesus (or know God and Jesus, if you like)...
We have no faith...
If we had faith we would have the power of the Holy Spirit...and thus be able to perform miracles, exorcisms, healing people, lifting mountains, raise the dead and other such things.

[Flint]

Not quite right, I'm not really talking about religion, but the definition of the word faith.
...
We believe in God and his son Jesus (or know God and Jesus, if you like)...
We have no faith...
If we had faith we would have the power of the Holy Spirit...and thus be able to perform miracles, exorcisms, healing people, lifting mountains, raise the dead and other such things.

Seriously, I think it's more pleasing to believe that the big J-man was just having a laugh, rather than telling yourself you aren't doing good enough.

Dictionary definition of "faith":
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs

You have faith if you believe. Nobody can expect you to move mountains, not even God himself.

[Flint]

sorry, double post. delete this.

[Nevermind]

But belief alone isn't faith. Like it says, it's a firm belief.

You can easily believe God is there. Believing without any doubts whatsoever, is faith. Usually accompanied by the strong belief that He'll do something, without doubting Him.

[Fyxe]

I pray that God will help me do well before every exam I sit, I pray that I'll find things I've lost, I pray that I won't have bad dreams before I go to sleep... And often, it works.

Ever considered that people who don't pray often have the same things happen anyway? Thousands of people do well in exams, find things they lost, and do not have bad dreams.

Besides, those are all terribly menial things. If God is all powerful, then should he not also aid with the big issues?

I'm sure thousands upon millions of people have prayed not to die and suffered at Death's hand anyway.

[Nevermind]

But see, that's not exactly something to pray for. No one is invincible. Things will hurt you, things will kill you. Things will make you sick, and if it doesn't get fixed, then you'll die. The only thing special about cancer and such is that there just isn't a cure yet. Nothing to do with God. In that situation, if you're gonna pray, pray for acceptance, and pray for strength to face your coming demise.

[Fyxe]

Did I say anything about cancer? I'm talking about people who pray before operations, pray before getting on a doomed aircraft, pray that the bullet in their chest doesn't kill them.
I bet people still pray to survive even if they do have cancer, anyway.

All those situations, the chance of a aircrash happening, the survival rate of a soldier, all these things are just the same sort of physical possibilities as finding a pencil you may have lost somewhere. If God is involved in one then he should logically be involved in the other. Doesn't stop those thousands of doomed souls who pray for survival from meeting their end, though.

[Nevermind]

Doesn't help passing exams, or finding pencils either. That's just a spiritual placebo.

That was my point, kind of. He may or may not save you from death, but He'll certainly help you through it, if you let Him. That's what faith is. Trust.

[Fyxe]

I generally think more people need to have some faith in themselves. Everyone always falls into the easy option in life, or feels they need a higher power to help them through such a trivial thing (in the grand scheme of things) as an exam.

[Nevermind]

Agreed. I mean, sure, pray for some guidance maybe, but don't ask to be picked up and carried unless you are in one of those situations such as imminent death or something.

[Fyxe]

Falling off a cliff springs to mind. That's definitely a 'carry me please' moment, that.

Followed by 'dude, seriously'.

Then by 'oh shit'.

[Nevermind]

Well, if it worked as it should have, it would have been.

"Carry me, please."


"Dude, seriously."


"Okay, here I come. Take this, rocks."



I didn't mean "carry" in a literal term =P

[Showsni]

If you have enough faith, though, God will send an angel to catch you - apparently. Having never fallen off any cliffs, I can't tell if I have enough faith.

“What
good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save
him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him,
"Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs,
what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.”

Faith and deeds - you need both. if I didn't even look at the exam subject, and prayed that I'd do well, I'd doubt my chances. But without faith, we're equally in trouble, as you need faith to believe in Jesus' sacrifice in order to go to heaven.