302 replies to this topic

[SOAP]

STILL haven't played FSA!? You should! It's good game. I don't care what everyone else here says. They're all liars! *hugs her copy of FSA*

Edit: Anyways, I sorta get what you're saying. But of course, if you're going to do it that way then you can forget about fitting FSA in there because that can only work with Ganon never actually enterimng the Sacred realm to begin with. But of course, I bet that's no skin off your nose.

Also, my theory can still work without Ganon getting arrested.He could've left Hyrule on his own accord when following Link into the Temple of Time didn't work that time around. As for the mark appearing on Link's hand at the end of OoT,yeah there's that but Ganon and Zelda's marks still resonate even after their peices had already left them.

[Koji]

4 friends, a case of Dr. Pepper, several boxes of Hot Pockets, 1 sleepless weekend, and a copy of FSA - I swear to you that the next time you play a Zelda game solo, you will feel oh so alone.

Anyways - to the point - doesn't Zelda say something about it being Ganon's evil spirit reborn? Doesn't Ganon say that he is Ganon's spirit? I may be wrong, but I seem to remember this being the quote. So couldn't it go after Wind Waker - y'know...the game Capcom is seemingly obsessed with? (I swear if I see another wind related item, I will scream)

[mohammedali]

STILL haven't played FSA!? You should! It's good game. I don't care what everyone else here says. They're all liars! *hugs her copy of FSA*

lol. Hug *her* copy??? Is there something you're not telling us MJ?
I've would love to play FSA, but I don't even own a GBA anymore, let alone 4. Hopefully when it comes out on the DS it won't be so difficult to play.

Edit: Anyways, I sorta get what you're saying. But of course, if you're going to do it that way then you can forget about fitting FSA in there because that can only work with Ganon never actually enterimng the Sacred realm to begin with. But of course, I bet that's no skin off your nose.

I don't know, I think it could still work. Perhaps it could even help explain the whole reborn line. I really need to play the game first though.

Also, my theory can still work without Ganon getting arrested.He could've left Hyrule on his own accord when following Link into the Temple of Time didn't work that time around. As for the mark appearing on Link's hand at the end of OoT,yeah there's that but Ganon and Zelda's marks still resonate even after their peices had already left them.

This is true, which is why I still think there is the *slim* chance of Link being sent back before he took the MS. However, I'm currently taking WW ending to have a slight error based on the fact that I don't think Link had the T?riforce piece on his hand still flashing. Actually, that reminds me, does Link have the Goron Bracelet on his hand in the ending?

4 friends, a case of Dr. Pepper, several boxes of Hot Pockets, 1 sleepless weekend, and a copy of FSA - I swear to you that the next time you play a Zelda game solo, you will feel oh so alone.

Sounds like a good night in to me

Anyways - to the point - doesn't Zelda say something about it being Ganon's evil spirit reborn?  Doesn't Ganon say that he is Ganon's spirit? I may be wrong, but I seem to remember this being the quote.  So couldn't it go after Wind Waker - y'know...the game Capcom is seemingly obsessed with?  (I swear if I see another wind related item, I will scream)

Yeah it does - though no one is completely sure what to think of that quote. It really does potentially mess up the 1 Ganon theory (though not necessarily).
I also completely agree about FS, FSA, MC all being some how related to WW. With the wind references and the same art style, it definately makes me think there is a link.

Mohammed Ali

[Tri-Enforcer]

I don't know how bad you want to play FSA, Mohammed, but it's really not all that. Also, you don't need 4 people to play...you can beat it solo. It's also an easy and short game (even witrh one person), it should only take you like one weekend to beat. Like I said I don't how bad you want to play it but here's the transcript if you'd like to brush up on it:

*SPOILER http://www.zeldalege.....uotes faq.txt * SPOILER

[mohammedali]

I don't know how bad you want to play FSA, Mohammed, but it's really not all that. Also, you don't need 4 people to play...you can beat it solo. It's also an easy and short game (even witrh one person), it should only take you like one weekend to beat. Like I said I don't how bad you want to play it but here's the transcript if you'd like to brush up on it:  
 
*SPOILER http://www.zeldalege.....uotes faq.txt * SPOILER

Yeah, I was reading a bit of that, but it's hard to understand exactly what's going on when only reading the transcript and not playing the game at all. Hence, I think I might just wait for the DS version to come out. No point wasting a perfectly good Zelda game by reading all the dialog before (not that I don't know more or less what's going to happen anyway). So what's the deal with the 4 players? Do you get the exact same ending etc even if you do it single player? There must be *some* benefit of having more than just solo play surely.

Mohammed Ali

[Showsni]

You can't play the mini games on your own. And I think you can only carry one weapon...

[mohammedali]

You can't play the mini games on your own. And I think you can only carry one weapon...

But does it add anything to the storyline by having more players. Like is ther something in the mini games or whatever could be relevent to the placing of FSA in a timeline?

Mohammed Ali

[Tri-Enforcer]

I'd reckon not. It wouldn't be fair to people who don't have anyone else to play with, like me
Also, they'd still add it in the quote faq I just posted...so it's a definite no. (just like they also added every quote from every possible scenario in the Oracles quote faqs). I guess the only incentive is what Showsni pointed out and also the joy of playing a Zelda game with multiple friends.

[Koji]

I say play it. Buy it and play it. It's short and a lot more action driven than other Zelda games but (in my opinion) it's still fun. I personally liked the fact that at times there were 30-some enemies on the screen at once - that blew my mind. The only benefit from playing 4-players is that you don't have to drop your awesome bow for...a lantern. Of course, then you don't have to argue over who would get the lantern because the guy with the boomerang is being a douche! *seethes...takes a breath, and sighs* Anyways, yeah! It's a fun game! Play it! Do it! Love it!

[mohammedali]

I say play it.  Buy it and play it.  It's short and a lot more action driven than other Zelda games but (in my opinion) it's still fun.  I personally liked the fact that at times there were 30-some enemies on the screen at once - that blew my mind.  The only benefit from playing 4-players is that you don't have to drop your awesome bow for...a lantern.  Of course, then you don't have to argue over who would get the lantern because the guy with the boomerang is being a douche! *seethes...takes a breath, and sighs*  Anyways, yeah!  It's a fun game!  Play it!  Do it!  Love it!

Yeah, I think I'll play it when it come out on DS. Although I already know so much about the game (as in about the whole Ganon stuff), but I think it'll still be a good laugh. Anyone konw what day it's coming out on the DS in the UK?

Mohammed Ali

[Crazy Penguin]

I don't think it is coming out on DS any more, if it was ever supposed to.

[mohammedali]

I don't think it is coming out on DS any more, if it was ever supposed to.

That's not what it says on GameFAQs...

Mohammed Ali

[mohammedali]

Reply to a PM by SOAP... Thought I'd post it here as it's relevent to the topic...

Nononono. Even if you do it that way--and I'm assuming here you mean that Link was sent back to the point after he opened the Sacred Realm but before he managed to step back out and reek havoc on Hyrule which would better coincide with ALttP‘s BS--it would stuill be a very human Ganondorf that's imprisoned, not an Evil Demon as he didn't become anything remotely like the ganon we all know and love until the very last part of the dault half of OoT.

I don't know, I think it works fine. Ganon was stuck in the SR which he continued to take over. However, by doing so, the world made him reflect his heart. This is why when he is reserected, he is still in his Ganon form. Also, because it's the timeline where Link never killed Ganon's 'mothers', it explains why they are still around to bring him back.

Also, my problem with picking anything after Link touched the MS as the point where he was sent back for the final time is anything after that wouldn't make any sense. Like Tri said, Zelda said it was all mistake. None of that shouldn't had happened. And what was the one thing that started all that mess? Link pulling out the Master Sword and thus opening the Sacred Realm for Ganondorf. The only logical way to rectify that mistake would to have Link never pull out the MS to begin with. Even if she sent Link back to the right moment to which Ganon became trapped by the Door of Time, he'd still have the Triforce or at least some part of it and couldn't be contained for very long.

I take there to be some reason why she couldn't send Link back any time before he touched the MS. The reason I generally go for is that Zelda cannot send Link back to a point where there is already a Link running around. Hence, although she would love to sort out all her mistakes, she can't.

Which is why I put LoZ before everything. Wait. What's this? Why are a bunch of cute guys in white lab coats doing here? You're taking me to the Happy Hotel are you? And I get to wear this stylish straight jacket too? Alright! Sounds like fun! *gets carried off*

And guess who sent them heh heh heh. That's right... Until you accept that aLttP is a prequal to LoZ, you're staying locked in that cell... What do you mean you can't type in a stright jacket???

Mohammed Ali

[Hero of Slime]

Crazy Penguin is right, there have been no announcements about remaking FSA for the DS. Waht ever it says on GameFaqs is just a rumor. Why would Nintendo remake a game released last year?

[SOAP]

*breaks free from the LA Asylum* Finally! I'm free! And just in time for the admins to come back to their senses and lift that dorm lock-in. Sorry cute guys in the white labcoats. My heart only belongs to Ali.

I don't know, I think it works fine. Ganon was stuck in the SR which he continued to take over. However, by doing so, the world made him reflect his heart. This is why when he is reserected, he is still in his Ganon form. Also, because it's the timeline where Link never killed Ganon's 'mothers', it explains why they are still around to bring him back.

I guess so. As a sidenote, yes Twinrova would still be alive in this timeline but for how long?

I take there to be some reason why she couldn't send Link back any time before he touched the MS. The reason I generally go for is that Zelda cannot send Link back to a point where there is already a Link running around. Hence, although she would love to sort out all her mistakes, she can't.

Unless you believe that Link actually ages backwards when he's sent back in time, if anything, his mind just goes back to the same child body he always goes back to when he goes back in time, only that time, Link would have been sent to the version of himself at the very point in time to before he actually pulls out the Mastersword. Obviously a new Link doesn't materialize out of nowhere. Zelda might not be able to send Link back to before the whole mess began but there's no reason to believe that Orcarina of Time can't, since the instrument itself apparantly follows it's own set of laws.

And guess who sent them heh heh heh. That's right... Until you accept that aLttP is a prequal to LoZ, you're staying locked in that cell... What do you mean you can't type in a stright jacket???

Hmmm. No. Don't think so. :cool:

[mohammedali]

*breaks free from the LA Asylum* Finally! I'm free! And just in time for the admins to come back to their senses and lift that dorm lock-in. Sorry cute guys in the white labcoats. My heart only belongs to Ali.

I bet you say that to all the forum junkies...

I guess so. As a sidenote, yes Twinrova would still be alive in this timeline but for how long?

Well, they would revive Ganon, and then I assume they get killed in FSA. If you mean how long after could FSA theoretically be to OoT, well, that's anyone's guess - unless there is something that could help place it somewhere.

Unless you believe that Link actually ages backwards when he's sent back in time, if anything, his mind just goes back to the same child body he always goes back to when he goes back in time, only that time, Link would have been sent to the version of himself at the very point in time to before he actually pulls out the Mastersword. Obviously a new Link doesn't materialize out of nowhere. Zelda might not be able to send Link back to before the whole mess began but there's no reason to believe that Orcarina of Time can't, since the instrument itself apparantly follows it's own set of laws.

I see what you're saying, but the way I see it is that in OoT, Link can only go back to points in time he has not been to yet. He can't overright things he has already done (like lifting the MS), but he can do things in points of time that he was 'missing'. I take this to be the universal law of Timetravel in OoT and hence Zelda has to abide by it. If not, then she should have sent Link into a past before he lifted the MS, but the ending suggests she didn't. This is the only reason such a decision would make sence.

Mohammed Ali

[Fatgoron]

I take there to be some reason why she couldn't send Link back any time before he touched the MS. The reason I generally go for is that Zelda cannot send Link back to a point where there is already a Link running around.  Hence, although she would love to sort out all her mistakes, she can't.

I agree, it would make the whole adult era completely redundant if Zelda could just send link back to stop it from ever happening, plus Link appears to have the ToC on the back of his hand during the end sequence, and there's the WW BS inferring that he had it, and that it was split up when he travelled to Termina.(further implying that he posessed it as a child)

[Tri-Enforcer]

I agree, it would make the whole adult era completely redundant if Zelda could just send link back to stop it from ever happening, plus Link appears to have the ToC on the back of his hand during the end sequence, and there's the WW BS inferring that he had it, and that it was split up when he travelled to Termina.(further implying that he posessed it as a child)

Actually, you don't quite agree with Mohammed, particularly on the latter half of your explanation. (hint...he's a splitter and he believes the ToC shatters when Link is sent back for the final time...and TWW BS picks up from there)

[SOAP]

Well, they would revive Ganon, and then I assume they get killed in FSA. If you mean how long after could FSA theoretically be to OoT, well, that's anyone's guess - unless there is something that could help place it somewhere.

Don't be silly. Twinrova's not in FSA at all...

I see what you're saying, but the way I see it is that in OoT, Link can only go back to points in time he has not been to yet. He can't overright things he has already done (like lifting the MS), but he can do things in points of time that he was 'missing'. I take this to be the universal law of Timetravel in OoT and hence Zelda has to abide by it. If not, then she should have sent Link into a past before he lifted the MS, but the ending suggests she didn't. This is the only reason such a decision would make sence.

Like I said, Zelda probably couldn't but there's no reason to believe the OoT can't. Also taht may be how time travel works with the pulling and replacing of the MS but like I said, the OoT follows it's own laws when it comes to time travel.

Also, one could make the arguement that Zelda didn't send Link back in Time before the whole mess began because she still felt she make things right. Then again, it could also do with the fact that she didn't have the OoT. Link did. Zelda couldn't reveal herself to Link without Ganon finding her nor woould Lihnk give the OoT to some random stranger. Obviously Zelda needs to regain Link's trust as Sheik.

The dark future is only redundant if Ganon gains any part of the Triforce and everything happens all over again.

[Hero of Slime]

How does a split timeline work without Link going back to the past and changing the future? Isn't that how the split would be caused?

[mohammedali]

Don't be silly. Twinrova's not in FSA at all...

I thought they were the ones that bring Ganon back. Is that not true?

Like I said, Zelda probably couldn't but there's no reason to believe the OoT can't. Also taht may be how time travel works with the pulling and replacing of the MS but like I said, the OoT follows it's own laws when it comes to time travel.

It's Zelda that sends Link back. She says so herself (My power as a sage can send you back). The thing that strongly suggests it's after Link first touched the MS is the ToC piece.

Also, one could make the arguement that Zelda didn't send Link back in Time before the whole mess began because she still felt she make things right. Then again, it could also do with the fact that she didn't have the OoT. Link did. Zelda couldn't reveal herself to Link without Ganon finding her nor woould Lihnk give the OoT to some random stranger. Obviously Zelda needs to regain Link's trust as Sheik.

No. I think Sheikh had ample oppertunitiy to reveal herself and send Link back if she wanted to/could. I think Ganon's defeat was of paramount importance, and before that nothing could be done like that.

The dark future is only redundant if Ganon gains any part of the Triforce and everything happens all over again.

Not necessarily. I mean firstly, he already has a piece of Triforce even in a split.

Mohammed Ali

[mohammedali]

How does a split timeline work without Link going back to the past and changing the future? Isn't that how the split would be caused?

This is the way I see it. Link goes between 2 times using the SR as a link. When changing something in the past, it effects the future. After beating Ganon however, that link had to be closed to avoid there be any changes. This meant that Link could no longer move between times and would have to remain an adult. However, Zelda sent Link back in time using her power as a sage. This was outside the set-in-stone Adult Links timeline which has a future of its own (as Zelda says herself). Hence, what Link does as a child when sent back will have a seperate future and is hence in another timeline. This is the timeline I place aLttP in.

Mohammed Ali

[Mad Scrub]

Originally Posted by mohammedali
After beating Ganon however, that link had to be closed to avoid there be any changes.

Not 100% true. Link still has some influence on the Adult Universe as we see in TWW BS as it mentions how the ToC split after Link was lured into Termina by Skull Kid. Of course this isn't an issue for you is it mohammedali?

[Showsni]

I thought they were the ones that bring Ganon back. Is that not true?

In FSA, Ganondorf is a new person, a young man who has grown up among the Gerudo but breaks there laws and is shunned. However, it seems as though he gains the power of Ganon, called an ancient demon, when he takes the trident.

[mohammedali]

Not 100% true. Link still has some influence on the Adult Universe as we see in TWW BS as it mentions how the ToC split after Link was lured into Termina by Skull Kid. Of course this isn't an issue for you is it mohammedali?

Thankfully, no, it's not a problem for me. I take the 'adventure' to be Link going to the other timeline. It doesn't specify that it was going to Termina that split the Triforce so there's no contradiction. This is why I say, split timelines are the way forwards.

Twinrova only brought Ganon back in oracles of ages/seasons in the linked game. In four swords adventures Ganon is just back because he is. I am not too sure how or why. I didnt even know he was back until after I beat Vaati. which by the way was the easiest boss fight ever, especially considering how much fight vaati put up in minish cap. it was almost like he wanted to die in FSA.

That's the one. I haven't played OoX either so I confused it with FSA. Oh well, there goes the Twinrova idea. Having said that though, they would still be alive if OoX is in aLttP timeline so I guess there's still a link there.

In FSA, Ganondorf is a new person, a young man who has grown up among the Gerudo but breaks there laws and is shunned. However, it seems as though he gains the power of Ganon, called an ancient demon, when he takes the trident.

But perhaps this could be what happens to Ganondorf in the alternate timeline. i.e. Instead of Ganon gaining the Triforce, here he finds a trident which has links to an ancient evil. He then becomes a pig, and hence in every game that is in this timeline, Ganon has the trident (i.e. LoZ, aLttP, OoX?), whilst in the other timeline, there is no trident (i.e. Adult OoT, WW). I really need to play these games to justify a position for them in the timeline. I think I'll start with Oracles when I get a chance.

EDIT: This is now the largest thread on this board...

Mohammed Ali

[Doopliss]

One question, mohammedali, do you think, that a split timeline is created then, each time that Link travels to the past and changes the future and the events that we see happening in the game belong to a keystone timeline that is based on Link's sublective experience?

Since this topic is becoming a little fancy, I will post my own views on what I think to happen with OoT's time travel, so tell me what you think, please:

Fine, then, I think that Link can just travel forth and back in time exactly seven years. When Link travels back in time his adult mind switches bodies with his young self's mind, then, after he does what he needs to and he returns to the future the minds swap places again and the items that Link collects in the past travel with him by the Sacred Realm (and appear seven years later so he can use them). In this way, the events that happen when Link travels to the past don't affect the future because they had already happened when Link arrived to the future for the first time, plus, this also solves the problem of Link remembering what he did as a child when he travelled to the past later, when he wakes up seven years after he pulled the Master Sword for the first time. And, it also solves the problem of there being two Links at the same time.

Now, after Link defeats Ganon Zelda sends Link seven years exactly to the past again, then he goes to Termina and lives his ultra exciting adventure for finding a friend we never really know who is and returns to Hyrule, there he opens again the Door of Time and goes seven years forward where he can continue with his life in his adult body with Ganon being defeated.

So there you have it: a sinlge timeline theory without mayor pradoxes.

[mohammedali]

One question, mohammedali, do you think, that a split timeline is created then, each time that Link travels to the past and changes the future and the events that we see happening in the game belong to a keystone timeline that is based on Link's sublective experience?

That's not quite how I see it working. During OoT, Link uses the MS to travel between two times. If Link would do things in the past, they would affect the connected future in the normal way one would expect - i.e. without a new timeline being created. This is because at this point there is a connection between these 2 times. However, when Link leaves the MS for the final time, it is clear something has changed. That link has been closed. This is why only Zelda can send him back to being a child and leaving the MS is not enough. He can no longer keep traveling between times. The Adult timeline has been set in stone now and is no longer 'fluid' with the past. He is supposed to stay an adult, and if he did, there would only be 1 timeline. However, Zelda sends him back anyway. He then goes back to being a child - but as this is seperate from the Adult timeline, all the events that occur here will be different to the ones in the other timeline. This is why there are 2 timelines and only 2. Sorry if I didn't explain it well.

Now, after Link defeats Ganon Zelda sends Link seven years exactly to the past again, then he goes to Termina and lives his ultra exciting adventure for finding a friend we never really know who is and returns to Hyrule, there he opens again the Door of Time and goes seven years forward where he can continue with his life in his adult body with Ganon being defeated.

So there you have it: a sinlge timeline theory without mayor pradoxes.

A few problems with that.
1) It seems that at the end of OoT, Link can no longer use the MS for moving between time. Zelda even speaks to him as though they will never meet again after she sends him back. It's clear that Link is not supposed to come back to this future.
2) It defeats the whole point of Zelda sending Link back 7 years to relive his childhood, if he comes back about 6 months down the line. The whole sending Link back thing would be redundant.

Mohammed Ali

[Doopliss]

1) It seems that at the end of OoT, Link can no longer use the MS for moving between time. Zelda even speaks to him as though they will never meet again after she sends him back. It's clear that Link is not supposed to come back to this future.
2) It defeats the whole point of Zelda sending Link back 7 years to relive his childhood, if he comes back about 6 months down the line. The whole sending Link back thing would be redundant.

Zelda mentions, that, by returning the Master Sword and closing the Door of Time he will close the paths between time, but I think she meant with that that no one eslse could open it nor use the Master Sword. I also think that Link could have returned much time later to the future according to my theory, since he practically had 7 years to do it until he woke in the future.

But then, if you believe time travel to work that way, how can you solve the paradoxes that it implies?

[Tri-Enforcer]

If you consider that time can split at one point of time travel. Then why shouldn't there be splits everytime a time travel occurs? In my split theory, I believed there were multiple futures where Ganon reigned for 7 years, and multiple timelines where Link prevented the 7 year rule. In essence they each have the same premise, so there's no need to focus on all of them.

Each time Link went into the future, it was perhaps different a little, but to Link it's still a Ganon dominate future until he gets everything right. Each time he returns to the past, it a little different, but to Link Ganon has not begun his conquest yet. Each time Link does something different in the past it creates a split. All that's needed is to focus on one of the timelines where Ganon ruled for 7 years and also focus on only one of the timelines where Link prevents Ganon's 7 year reign.