82 replies to this topic

[Reflectionist]

yes, and the United States have never been in a war they've lost, according to most history books, right?

*cough*Canada*Cough*

[Octorok]

Yes, there are no 'Hylian Knights' in OoT. That's true. But are you seriously suggesting that Ganon accidently discovers the Triforce and attacks Hyrule, then is sealed by the legendary Seven Sages... Twice?

Why not? There have been bigger coincidences in the series, what makes this one so implausible?

The developers of OoT have basically said it was intended to be the Imprisoning War.

Quote please.

[Fyxe]

I can't remember where the quote is, but I'm sure someone here knows what I'm talking about and maybe knows it's location. I can't seem to find it on Zelda Legends, at least not at the moment.

[Showsni]

The developers may have originally intended for OoT to be the IW, but with TWW it seems they've had a change of heart. Besides, as Octo and Zol say, there are a lot of inconsistencies between OoT and the IW. About the only consistencies are that Ganon, a leader of some thieves, enters the SR and tries to pick up the triforce before being sealed in the SR by seven sages. That's not too big a coincidence - especially if you consider that teh second time around, they would know the outcome of the first time, and so know what to do to seal Ganon away.

[Fyxe]

Except, where the hell do you find seven more Sages?

I'm not saying they didn't have a change of heart, WW causes so many problems, but WW is more consitent with OoT than ALttP.

Basically, OoT works as ALttP's backstory if you ignore WW. OoT works as WW's backstory for obvious reasons. WW does not tie in with ALttP's backstory at all.

To be honest, I do not have a decent answer. The only answer I have that doesn't leave the whole of OoT being redundant and doesn't use the 'oh, look, lets just seal him again' bit of fanfic is my concept that Ganon never actually broke the seal.

It's clean, which is always nice, and it is based on some in-game evidence from WW.

Besides, if they could of just sealed him again, what was the whole point of the gods flooding Hyrule anyway? And even the seal of the gods didn't hold him completely.

[Showsni]

Seven more sages? That's shown in the game - you find them in the various temples, and "awaken" them. They're completely different to other sages in the Zelda game, though.

Besides which, there have always been several sages in Hyrule. AoL, for example, has one in every town, making eight in total.

[Fyxe]

I'm not sure those are sages in the same sense of the word.

And there were only two Sages in WW.

[D~N]

Would it be too bad of 'fanwanking' (for some reason leia in a gold bikini comes to mind...) if the White Sword was the Four Sword (as in MC...) but was the same White Sword from LoZ?

sorry to quote such an old message, but i found something usefull. ok, a know some of you think SSBM isn't canon, but just go with me here:

"The Master Sword varies a bit between titles in the Legend of Zelda series, but it's generaly the most powerful blade Link can carry."

This can help that out.

[Crazy Penguin]

Didn't SSBM also say that the Master Sword first appeared in Ocarina of Time?

[D~N]

yes. so it's kinda iffy.

[Doopliss]

Smash Brothers Melee is too far from being canon.

I think the Imprisoning War to be separated from OoT because of the incosistences and because Ganon has wished on the Triforce at least twice. This is because he wished for the first time in OoT, then the King of Red Lions wished on the Triforce and the Dark World (at least the one that Ganon created) was destroyed, then, in ALttP the Essence of the Triforce says that Ganon's wish created the Dark World and that it will be destroyes, so he had to wish again after TWW. Now, the Imprisoning War could happen between TWW and ALttP, after all, you don't need to fanfic.

[Tri-Enforcer]

The only solid argument I have against this timeline is obviously the placement of the SP. And if you follow the flow of the Triforce and where it's been, then you should know this wouldn't be accurate. As for the rest of this timeline, it can neither be proven efficient or defective as most of our theories (for the time being at least).

I have no problem with the placement of the IW (not that I'd place there in my timeline). I don't think OOT is IW. Why? Rather simple...Ganon only had the Triforce of Power at the end of OOT, where as in LTTP Ganon has the whole Triforce to himself inside the Dark World at the start of LTTP. Also, there's no evidence showing that he ever was outside the Dark World in between the IW and LTTP. Where as in TWW, which follows OOT, we see that Ganon does already have only the ToP at his possession and not the other pieces of the Triforce, most notably he hinted at the end of OOT that as long as he has the ToP he could come back and take out the descendants of the sages--which he did--before the flood occured one of the two sages in TWW even said he was killed by Ganon and tha he was a descendant of the sages before him. It quite clear OOT is not the IW--1) Ganon had the whole Triforce at the start of LTTP; 2) Ganon ONLY had the Triforce of Power (ToP) when he was sealed in OOT; 3) Ganon broke his imprisonment after OOT as we see in TWW 4.) Try explaining how Ganon not only breaks his imprisonment with only the ToP to show up in TWW, then gets impaled by the Master Sword, he no longer has any Triforce part at this point, he gets trapped under the sea in a petrified state with Sword of Evil's Bane stuck in his head, but somehow appears in the Dark World with the whole Triforce to himself at the start of LTTP? (Oh yeah all the other stuff in between OOT and LTTP goes unmentioned as we see in LTTP) So the IW is OOT that's BS.

Then again one can't help but to think that OOT is the IW, if you over look all the fine points--which is probably what Nintendo did anyway in between all those years that LTTP and OOT came out. So I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo expects us to just accept it without correcting themselves---but then again they had a shot at clearing this all out when they re-released LTTP on the GBA. Which further makes me believe that the IW isn't OOT.

[Hero of Slime]

You guys are right about the sleeping zelda placement. Having the Triforce positions match up is a lot more Important than fanwanking to explain the zelda tradition. I will move The Aol back story so its right before LoZ.

(TMC)-(OoT-MM)-(TWW)-(FS-FSA)-(ALttP-LA)-(OoA-OoS)-SZ-(LoZ-Aol)

[Doopliss]

But you forget one thing, The Zol, remember that Fyxe quoted Jabun, who already knows that the woman who carries the bloodline of the princess must be named Zelda, so it would be a good idea to place it after OoT. AoL's backsotory says that the king ruled with the Triforce, but it never mentions if he used all the pieces, so maybe he used only the Triforce of Wisdom, then, the prince could only inherit it in part, so he only inherited the Triforce of Wisdom, but the Triforce of Courage was shattered and Ganon had the Triforce of Power.

[MikePetersSucks]

[quote][quote]Well, was he? We know that in WW, until Link removes the sword, Ganon is sealed by the seal of the Gods that keeps him in the flooded Hyrule. But somehow he's not, somehow he's out of the seal. This is never explained. He just starts regaining his power faster afterwards.

In ALttP, he manifests himself as Agahnim beyond the seal.

Maybe he never truely broke free from the Sacred Realm. The Ganon you face in WW is 'part' of Ganon, but not his true form or true power.

This is just a possiblity. We don't know. It is never explained. But the fact is that Ganon *can* somehow bypass the 'Seal of the Gods' and the 'Seal of the Sages', at least in part.

Also remember, *why* did the gods flood Hyrule? Couldn't they of just resealed Ganon in the Sacred Realm? Maybe this was impossible, because maybe the seal was still intact.[/quote]

[quote]Link was not the one who sealed Ganon. It was the Seven Sages with the *aid* of Link.

Yes, there are no 'Hylian Knights' in OoT. That's true. But are you seriously suggesting that Ganon accidently discovers the Triforce and attacks Hyrule, then is sealed by the legendary Seven Sages... Twice?

The backstory of ALttP is legend.

The developers of OoT have basically said it was intended to be the Imprisoning War. [/quote]Oh my God. You've renewed my respect for you. Those points are like, spot on. *adopts that Ganondorf theory* o.o

[quote]Except, where the hell do you find seven more Sages?[/quote]

Um....Find their descendants? Wait for destiny to haul them over? use the Triforce? In Zelda, there's infinite possibilities. "ROFL! There R 4 setz of Sages cuz they used teh 4sword"

[quote](TMC)-(OoT-MM)-(TWW)-(FS-FSA)-(ALttP-LA)-(OoA-OoS)-SZ-(LoZ-Aol) [/quote]Your theory is now acceptable. There's nothing to dissect.

[quote]But you forget one thing, The Zol, remember that Fyxe quoted Jabun, who already knows that the woman who carries the bloodline of the princess must be named Zelda[/quote]

There's a difference between being named Zelda, and MUST being Zelda. We went over this in ANOTHER thread. Don't bring it here. Jesus.

[quote]AoL's backsotory says that the king ruled with the Triforce, but it never mentions if he used all the pieces, so maybe he used only the Triforce of Wisdom, then, the prince could only inherit it in part, so he only inherited the Triforce of Wisdom, but the Triforce of Courage was shattered and Ganon had the Triforce of Power.[/quote]

No, because the Kingdom of Hyrule was confirmed to have both Wisdom and Power, and the dissapearance of Courage is directly related to the King's Letter, while the fragmentation of Courage was because the Hero of Time departed Hyrule. SZ can't go before TWW anyway because then we wouldn't have a Zelda for any future games, by your logic.

[Reflectionist]

I think that there is a can of worms here.

If the SZ story is before Wind Waker, then the Triforce of Courage itself would have to be Hidden again, the stage would be set for LttP, but, then the SZ story couldn't have any meaning, the ToC has to be hidden between the SZ story and AoL,

The only logical place for that is right before LoZ.

[Doopliss]

MikePetersSucks, it was never stated how many pieces the king used to rule over Hyrule.

[Showsni]

It's probably pretty accurate to say the kinghad the whole triforce, though, since he mentions all of it in his letter.

I agree with Reflectionist - SZ come right before LoZ, with the possible exception of the Four Sword games since they don't involve the triforce. Maybe FSA sets up Ganon in LoZ?

[SOAP]

This timeline is perfect.

[Reflectionist]

whoa.

Master Sword... in the Oracle Games...should that be counted? I'm not sure, since, the situation is in the game, whichever one... :-( but it is randomized between three other scenarios, isn't it?

Other than that, yes, it is perfect.

This is big.

[SOAP]

whoa.

Master Sword... in the Oracle Games...should that be counted? I'm not sure, since, the situation is in the game, whichever one... :-( but it is randomized between three other scenarios, isn't it?

[Mystic Kitsune]

I heard according to Nintendo that OoT came first...then again that news might have been out dated

[Reflectionist]

What's that look for?

it is mostly a minor thing, although it has been used to back up storylines before.... it can't help this one. But since it is so minor, it doesn't have to be used.

[SOAP]

The Mastersword? Minor? In a ZELDA GAME!?

[Crazy Penguin]

It was minor in the Oracle games.

[SOAP]

How so?

[Showsni]

In that you didn't have to get it if you didn't want to. But then, I don't think you have to get Epona, and it's shown in MM that in the actual storyline you do...

[Doopliss]

Yes, we shouldn't ignore that fact.

[Crazy Penguin]

How so?

You don't need to get it to finish the game, it doesn't play into the story very much, and it serves no purpose other than being a slightly stronger sword. I'm not saying it doesn't "count" or anything, just that it wasn't important to the Oracle games.

But then, I don't think you have to get Epona

Don't you need her to get over to Gerudo Valley?

[D~N]

no, your really "supposed to" use the longshot, but they threw it in so the trade-for-biggoron-sword-thingy could be completed.