145 replies to this topic

[Fyxe]

'Laws of the past' can mean anything. It doesn't have to mean any literal 'laws'. The king then used the word 'fate', which ties into the whole destiny thing far more than anything to do with tradition.

I'm not using any random theory. The whole Tetra/Zelda thing was a clear reference to the Sheik/Zelda thing, just played out differently in that Zelda didn't know. She changed appearance a lot. Of course her personality didn't change *much* (it did, she generally became more responsible), but her skin and hair changed dramatically, and of course her clothing did too. The whole Zelda thing is more than just some tradition. There's some serious magic going on.

Link!

I don't know how to say this...

Everything that's happened to you and
your poor sister...
It's all been my fault.

...I'm so sorry.

Link...

Be careful...

Notice her sudden knowledge? Until this moment she was oblivious to what being Zelda meant, but then she suddenly seems to understand.

[Tri-Enforcer]

(Mohammed Ali)
Even if it was just when she was born, who in the family even KNEW they were royalty, and why didn't they tell Zelda?

I don't know about anyone else, but I would imagine Tetra was not told that she was a princess for her own protection. Also, she clearly didn't know that she was a princess until Daphnes revealed this to her. I mean look at her reaction:

KING:
You are the true heir of the royal family of
Hyrule...the last link in the bloodline.
You are Princess Zelda.

ZELDA:
...Zelda? I'm...a princess?

KING:
You are confused, aren't you?
I suppose such is to be expected.

[mohammedali]

Laws of the past' can mean anything. It doesn't have to mean any literal 'laws'. The king then used the word 'fate', which ties into the whole destiny thing far more than anything to do with tradition.

Laws of the Past at the very *least* strongly suggests following traditions if not actual laws. In either case, whether taken as a tradition or an actual law, the naming thing seems to be refered to. The destiny thing still doesn't explain why a girl named Tetra is suddenly called Zelda. It has no bearing on the topic at hand.

I'm not using any random theory. The whole Tetra/Zelda thing was a clear reference to the Sheik/Zelda thing, just played out differently in that Zelda didn't know. She changed appearance a lot. Of course her personality didn't change *much* (it did, she generally became more responsible), but her skin and hair changed dramatically, and of course her clothing did too. The whole Zelda thing is more than just some tradition. There's some serious magic going on.

The transformation in clothes, and slight changes in appearences is nothing like the concious transformation into Sheik. I agree that there is a similarity between OoT and WW with a key player turing out to be Zelda, but that is pretty much where the similarities end. The key thing to remember is that Zelda turned into Sheik, and then back into Zelda at a later date. In WW she has absolutely no recollection of the name Zelda, or of being a princess. She is Tetra, daughter of a pirate (might be wrong there, can't remember). She is then told she must abide by the laws of the past and is zapped into Zelda. It couldn't be a more obvious connection to the naming law in AoL.

I don't know about anyone else, but I would imagine Tetra was not told that she was a princess for her own protection.  Also, she clearly didn't know that she was a princess until Daphnes revealed this to her.  I mean look at her reaction:

Exactly. Its clear she had no idea about her bloodline or the whole princess business. However I don't think it was done for her own protection. I believe no one actually knew. The king himself wasn't even 100% earlier in the game. In his talk with Jabun he says he believes he may have finally found her, but it's clear he had to search her out instead of just look out for her. I also very much doubt that Tetras mum knew otherwise she would have told Tetra so she could pass on the tradition. It seems clear that knowledge of the bloodline was lost to Tetras family and it's the King who restored the bloodline by finding her.

Mohammed Ali

[Fyxe]

And thus, magicness. The king seemed to know about her mother and how she had the piece of the Triforce that she then handed down to Tetra. But there was something special about Tetra herself that made *her* Zelda.

It's all very ambiguous anyway, purposely so.

[mohammedali]

And thus, magicness.  The king seemed to know about her mother and how she had the piece of the Triforce that she then handed down to Tetra.  But there was something special about Tetra herself that made *her* Zelda.

It's all very ambiguous anyway, purposely so.

lol. Using the old 'magic' getoutofjailfree card hey? (just been playing Monopoly).
The King talks about the triforce shard being handed down because this was something he knew his decendants had and knew they were told to always guard it with their life etc. When I played the game, it was clear to me that he didn't actually know Tetras mother (from his speach with Jabun), and that he was making the assumption that she was told the same things the original Zelda was told before Hyrule was flooded.
As for there being something special about Tetra. No matter how special she is, there is no reason for her to change her name. If Link was called Bob, I can't imagine the King saying "you have great courage... you are Link !!!".
The only explination for a change in name is some sort of tradition or law. We know that one exists in the Zelda universe and that is why I apply it to these quotes.

Mohammed Ali

[Hero of Slime]

If the Zelda tradition was started before TWW, then how did the was the Tradition contiued after TWW?. Tetra was the last member of the Hyrulean royal family, how could she contiue the naming tradition if she had never heard about it?

[mohammedali]

If the Zelda tradition was started before TWW, then how did the was the Tradition contiued after TWW?. Tetra was the last member of the Hyrulean royal family, how could she contiue the naming tradition if she had never heard about it?

There are a few explinations. Firstly, Tetra would have realised that this was a law considering her name was just changed to Zelda due to the laws of old or whatever. It's fairly obvious that girls have to be called Zelda from that alone. Failing that, there is every chance that there exists an Impa somewhere in the world that still knows the story, but hasn't met with the princess yet. For split timelines, it's often easy as there are no games after WW so there is no problem. In any case, the question about how there even exists a Hyrule after WW is definaately the more pertinant question. There are more likely answers for how the tradition continues to exist than there are for how Hyrule continues to exist.

Mohammed Ali

[Fyxe]

Actually, it's not obvious at all, else we wouldn't be having this discussion.

It's just your interpretation.

[MikePetersSucks]

Maybe, just maybe, she's a reincarnation of a Zelda Daphnes knew in life? OMGWTFBBQ

[Fyxe]

Would that mean... Link is a reincarnation of the legendary Hero!?! CRAZY.

[mohammedali]

Actually, it's not obvious at all, else we wouldn't be having this discussion.

It's just your interpretation.

This has nothing to do with the discussion before. I'm saying that if the naming law is being referenced in WW, it would be obvious to Tetra that there must have been some tradition to change her name to Zelda after the King tell her to abide by the laws of the past and then changes her name. This was in responce to The Zols question about how the tradition may live on after WW. I also gave a few other possibilities in that post as well, for those that don't like the one above.

Mohammed Ali

[Nevermind]

If Tetra didn't know she was even of the royal family, what makes you so sure she'd automatically know the old laws of the royal family?

[mohammedali]

If Tetra didn't know she was even of the royal family, what makes you so sure she'd automatically know the old laws of the royal family?

I'm saying that one of the many possible explinations is that when Tetra is told that she has to 'abide by the laws of old' and is then told her name is now Zelda, she puts 2 and 2 together and gets the picture that all the princesses must have been called Zelda otherwise why did the King suddenly change her name after taking about old laws. I'm not saying this is the only way the tradition went on. In fact I'm not even saying it HAS to go on if WW is the last game. I'm just saying this is one of the possible explinations. Hope that clears it up.

Mohammed Ali

[Nevermind]

It's plausible, but it's another one of those that relies on [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of assumption.

[MikePetersSucks]

Y'know, I'm kinda surprised no one is making bullshit theories to explain why all the Links are the same or why they're all born next to Zelda's. Hey, here's one word that will solve the Zelda naming, their similarities with each other, and Link's birth: REINCARNATION! or maybe even DESTINY! LIEK LOL! My God, people. The Sleeping Zelda thing is totally ridiculous the way you're strutting around it. I'm almost tempted to omit it from the timeline entirely out of spite. "This is a good timeline, but where's SZ?" "NOWHERE! PWNED"

[Nevermind]

If it was reincarnation, then she would always have prior underlying knowledge of things, which she may, I can't remember.

Nonetheless, Destiny =/= all knowing. Destiny still requires a catalyst between the subject and their pre-destined goal.

[Fyxe]

Hold it, reincarnation doesn't mean she would have an underlying knowledge of stuff. Reincarnation is just an eternal soul being reborn over and over. So basically there's the soul of the hero, 'Link', being reborn. Each time it's a new Link, no old memories or whatever, but it's also the old Link at the same time, sharing the same basic personality and skills and destiny.

It's the same with Zelda. I suppose that might mean she would have a innate wisdom, which she does, but she doesn't have any knowledge of past lives or whatever.

Ganon's different, he seems to remember everything and knows his purpose distinctly (except in the Oracle games, but that was a botched revival), and that's because he's essentially a demon being reborn, revived from death. More than just a soul, his very personality and memories and all that are seemingly recalled when he is revived.

[Nevermind]

True that.

But as far as I'm concerned, it's the same Ganon

[Fyxe]

Well, it is.

But there's no denying he dies and needs reviving.

Maybe the series should be called 'The Legend of Ganon'.

[Nevermind]

But the thing is, when he is revived, is it the same soul going to a new body?

[Hero of Slime]

But the thing is, when he is revived, is it the same soul going to a new body?

We don't know. The Oracle games are the only games where we see Ganon return, but we don't know if the method of revival used in the Oracle games is the same method that is used before all the other games.

[Showsni]

Reincarnation wouldn't mean she's got the same name, anyway.
And we know that not every Zelda is a reincarnation, even if some are - remember at one point two different Zeldas are co-existing.

[Fyxe]

We don't know. The Oracle games are the only games where we see Ganon return, but we don't know if the method of revival used in the Oracle games is the same method that is used before all the other games.

I swore I posted a reply to this, but I was just gonna say that AoL and KnS both had different methods of revival to the Oracle games. And Four Swords Adventures seems to imply another method of revival.

Showsni, that's a good point. But is it possible that Zelda reincarnated anyway? If it's an eternal soul throughout time then it's possible that it doesn't necessarily need the previous soul to be dead to be reincarnated. It's like some cosmic force of destiny that manifests itself as human souls, rather than one individual soul.

Either that, or due to the sleeping Zelda story (if we put the story directly before TLoZ/AoL with no other games inbetween) we could just say that all the other Zeldas after the sleeping Zelda are Zelda in name only, due to the naming tradition. Otherwise we'd have loads and loads of Zeldas tied with destiny with no let up, correct?

[MikePetersSucks]

Reincarnation wouldn't mean she's got the same name, anyway.
And we know that not every Zelda is a reincarnation, even if some are - remember at one point two different Zeldas are co-existing.

Indeed. Any Zelda's that do exist before the Sleeping Zelda (whom luck out and has no destiny with all this crap) are tied to destiny and whatnot, and ONLY those Zelda's.

If it's an eternal soul throughout time then it's possible that it doesn't necessarily need the previous soul to be dead to be reincarnated. It's like some cosmic force of destiny that manifests itself as human souls, rather than one individual soul.

HEADRUSH! Way to make a good neopagan reference, Fyxe.

[Hero of Slime]

AoL and KnS both had different methods

How is Ganon revived in KnS?

[Fyxe]

Something to do with the 'ancient stone tablets' that the game is centered around.

That was a Neo-Pagan reference? Cool. I just think too much.