127 replies to this topic

[Vazor]

That's why I say that in the end end when Zelda sends Link back it's a different kind of time travel than TRBEToOoTTT, which makes sense, because if it was the same kind of time travel, then why would Zelda have to do it differently? I say that:

At the very end, Zelda actually sends Link, spirit AND body back to the past, turning him into a child in the process. Once again a child, he basically walks into the castle right after the first time Link and Zelda met, and he tells her what's the deal. She and Impa get ready to leave. Link goes off and does his MM thing. Meanwhile, the original Link collects the other sacred stones and returns to the castle. Impa and Zelda leave, and original Link gets stuck in the Temple of Time for seven years. Next: TRBEToOoTTT. He defeats Ganon. Return to the beginning of the paragraph.

[Fyxe]

No, Zelda sends Link back without the inconvenience of him having to go to the Temple of Time. She says she can do it because she is a sage.

That's all we know. That doesn't mean there's anything particularly special about this method of time travel.

There is also another rather big bugger problem - Zelda tells Link to close the Door of Time and the pathway between times. However, if she sent him back BEFORE Ganondorf had attacked, the DoT would be closed and the pathway between times via the Master Sword would be untouched anyway.

Also, minor point, but it takes a few months before MM happens. So the Link that's sent back would have to hang around Hyrule for awhile yet.

[SOAP]

That's why I say that in the end end when Zelda sends Link back it's a different kind of time travel than TRBEToOoTTT, which makes sense, because if it was the same kind of time travel, then why would Zelda have to do it differently? I say that:

At the very end, Zelda actually sends Link, spirit AND body back to the past, turning him into a child in the process. Once again a child, he basically walks into the castle right after the first time Link and Zelda met, and he tells her what's the deal. She and Impa get ready to leave. Link goes off and does his MM thing. Meanwhile, the original Link collects the other sacred stones and returns to the castle. Impa and Zelda leave, and original Link gets stuck in the Temple of Time for seven years. Next: TRBEToOoTTT. He defeats Ganon. Return to the beginning of the paragraph.

WRONG! The correct answer was pie.

But seriously, when Link is sent back, the Door is already opened and he steps down from the mastersword as if he was just previously touching it. Obviously it wasn't different than all the other times Link sent himself back in time.

[Showsni]

Also, the idea of one Link totally buggers up the way time travel works anyway. If Link returns to the past at the end of the game, but there's no other Link stuck in the Sacred Realm, then the future events will occur very differently, which, as shown by the in-game time travel logic, is impossible.

The Link who was sent back to the first returns to Hyrule just before Link wakes after his seven year sleep, and is possessed, as it were, by young Link's consciousness. Meanwhile, his own consciousness jumps forwards to just after Zelda has sent his child consciousness back.

[Zythe]

This is my theory, and I'm assuming quite a bit, but bear w/ me.

After Link is sent back, he either recollects the three stones, or once he collects them, he destroys them. That way,Ganondorf cannot come back, and the Master Sword is indefinately laid to 'eternal rest'. Then he goes and tells Zelda the whole story, and she gives him the OoT as well as records his story. No big paradoxes, it works out okay. Although I am assuming [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img].

Also, as shown in Majora's Mask, the Ocarina of Time rewinds and fast-forwards time, not sends back and forth through time, so no timelines should branch out.

Yep. It's not my theory but at least it's more logical than Fyxe's.

[Fyxe]

Excuse me, what's so illogical about my theory?

That theory is just fanfic. You are indeed, assuming [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img]. Too much.

Also, it isn't consistent, as I have said a million times, with the way time works in OoT. And also with the backstory of MM. He can't become a legendary hero if he hasn't actually defeated Ganon. Nobody would know, except possibly the royal family.

[MikePetersSucks]

Not to mention there's no way in all the nine hells that Link can go back in time before the opening of the Door of Time. Especially when he's coming OUT of the open door and putting the Master Sword down. That theory would leave us with two Master Swords and two Links. Then Zelda would give one of the Link's the Ocarina, causing a paradox that would keep the second one from existing, and we just get all this bullshit no one needs or wants to deal with.

[Fyxe]

Well, with his theory, he was saying that the Ocarina of Time rewound time by seven years, meaning there would just be one Link still and he did stuff differently.

However, that's not accurate. What Zelda did was different to what happens in MM (she can send him back because she's a Sage, in MM Link and Tatl call upon the Goddess of Time for help), and there's never any actual evidence of time being 'rewound' in MM, you actually see it being fast-forwarded when you first see it happen, and that's more of an effect than anything, I thought. Other than that, you see Link falling through time, items he can't keep falling away.

Anyway, his theory *still* wouldn't make sense, because yes, you see Link putting the Master Sword back and leaving through the open Door of Time.

Also, you see the future still there, as normal, so time *hasn't* been rewound. Link has been sent back in time. That's all.

[Mad Scrub]

The Master Sword is a sacred blade which evil ones may never touch...
Only one worthy of the title of "Hero of Time" can pull it from the Pedestal of
Time....
However, you were too young to be the Hero of Time...
Therefore, your spirit was sealed here for seven years.
And now that you are old enough, the time has come for you to awaken as the
Hero of Time!

You have yourselves another believer in TRBEToOoTTT.

[Fyxe]

Spuh? That line doesn't prove or disprove anything. Link's spirit was sealed there for seven years. So what? That's nothing to do with the actual time travel. That's just Link being stuck in the Sacred Realm in a weird kind of limbo for seven years.

[Mad Scrub]

That line makes me think that only his spirit, mind, soul or whatever was sealed for seven years not his actual body. So the whole consciousness going back and forth through time theory could be accurate. I could be reading too much into it though.

[Kairu Hakubi]

I still say they just rewinded -most- of time, leaving ganondorf right where he was but giving everyone else the chance to live the years over properly, without g-dorf. the entire point was to undo what he'd done.

[MikePetersSucks]

Kairu, that doesn't make sense. Wouldn't someone notice an important political leader's sudden dissapearance? Especially an important one like the only male to an entire species of humans? There's no proof for his evil other than the things he did to get what he wants, and those can all be written off as natural disasters. Then we'd have a war between the Gerudo and Hyrule, and suddenly we have another chick dashing to the Lost Woods with a Prophecy Child. Along with several other loopholes that would forever mess up Zelda.

it goes like this. Link goes back in time after Ganon follows him in. Link seals the door, unknowing that Ganon is in there attempting to claim the Triforce. Triforce splits, as in the the crest on Link's hand shows, Link goes to Termina for seven years. Maybe you could fanwank and say the portal between the worlds only opens when the opposite world is in trouble? meh. anyway, Ganon breaks free during those seven years and causes havoc, Link returns and repeats the events of OOT and seals Ganon, being sent back to the past and creating a loop. However, even though Link is in a loop, after Ganon's sealing, time goes forward. It could probably only be Link's child consciousness that gets sent back. OOOOoooo

[Fyxe]

Link knows Ganon is in the Sacred Realm. How the hell wouldn't he?

The thing is, he can't do anything about it. He's saved the future, the past has to be left to fate because he's seen the future and there's nothing he can do until he can be the true Hero of Time. The whole thing about him being sealed for seven years was probably for a very good reason; if he was younger, he would not of been able to beat Ganon, and would just die in vain.

Don't give me that stuff about only his consciousness being sent back. It totally fracks up the whole ending and the whole Zelda saying goodbye thing if he's still there.

As for the portal back and forth through time, it's likely a side-effect of Link being sealed for seven years, and him being the Hero of Time. It's probably not available to anyone else.

[MikePetersSucks]

But Zelda doesn't KNOW that he's not really leaving, and if you think about it, we have no choice otherwise. Because Link is doomed to repeat the same two adventures infinitely while the rest of the world goes on without him. There has to be a part where he's released: The end of OOT

[Fyxe]

He's released at the end, he gets his seven years back. Whatever he does after that is his business, and as MM/WW suggest, he leaves Hyrule.

What I mean is that it fracks the ending because, firstly, you'd think Zelda WOULD know, she's the one sending him back, and even if she didn't, it's a total anticlimax if there's this whole thing about Link leaving and then 'oh, you're still here'.

[MikePetersSucks]

but where does his Adult Body go? Link can still never go past that seven year point anyway.

[Fyxe]

Why not?

[MikePetersSucks]

Because he keeps getting thrown back into the past by Zelda o.o you know. That little problem?

[Fyxe]

The Link that gets sent back and closes the Door of Time at the end is not the same Link that gets sealed in the Sacred Realm and awakened in seven years. From Link's personal perspective, that Link is in the past. He's done that. He can do whatever he wants for seven years, although defeating Ganon is out of the question, because he knows that won't happen until his other self awakens from the Sacred Realm. Get it?

[Wolf O'Donnell]

The Link that gets sent back and closes the Door of Time at the end is not the same Link that gets sealed in the Sacred Realm and awakened in seven years. From Link's personal perspective, that Link is in the past. He's done that. He can do whatever he wants for seven years, although defeating Ganon is out of the question, because he knows that won't happen until his other self awakens from the Sacred Realm. Get it?

The question is, would Link sit by and let Ganon have his way, even though he knew his future self will defeat Ganon in the future?

So much suffering will happen in those seven years.

Do you think Link would go off and let it happen?

[MikePetersSucks]

The question is, would Link sit by and let Ganon have his way, even though he knew his future self will defeat Ganon in the future?

So much suffering will happen in those seven years.

Do you think Link would go off and let it happen?

I think that when Link was looking for Navi, he only expected it to take like, a few weeks or so. (Which reminds me-Would Navi have to return to Link after seven years in order to keep the flow of time consistent?) Anyway, he goes through the whole MM adventure, and he's stuck in Termina for seven years. Maybe the portal only opens when the opposite world is in peril? Thusly, he wouldn't be able to help out until Ganon has already taken over. He might exit the portal, find Navi, draw the Master Sword and get possessed by his younger self, then history repeats.

[Fyxe]

The whole point of Link being sealed for seven years is that he was too young to be the Hero of Time.

For all we know, young Link COULD of faced Ganon when he returned from his search for Navi, and may of died without anyone even knowing. Unlikely, because Ganon probably would of remembered, but still.

MPS, you are driving me CRAZY with your lack of comprehension of simple time travel basics. NO NAVI WOULD NOT HAVE TO RETURN TO LINK BECAUSE SHE WAS SEALED FOR SEVEN YEARS ALONG WITH HIM. Her reaction when they awaken proves this.

Ok, that's that out of the way.

Now to address your other point... What makes you think Link was trapped in Termina for seven years? That doesn't seem to make much sense, because both Skull Kid and the Mask Salesman seem to be able to go back and forth with little trouble, so I see no reason why Link could not return.

And Link being 'possessed by his younger self' is just... Why? WHY? It doesn't even make SENSE. Link DRAWS the Master Sword and is sealed in the Sacred Realm. He AWAKENS in the Sacred Realm. Link VANISHES from Hyrule for seven years. HOW would ANOTHER version of himself come along and draw the Master Sword when it's already been drawn and presumably there's a big portal of some kind in it's place.

You would of thought someone like Rauru would of said 'you have possessed your adult self' or something like that, but no. No. This is all just fanfic.

It's pretty damn simple. He is sealed for seven years, his body sort of... Vanishes in some sort of stasis so he can't be killed by Ganon or whatever, and his spirit is sealed. He awakens in seven years as an adult in the Sacred Realm when he is old enough to be the Hero of Time. He defeats Ganon. He gets sent back by Zelda to get back the seven years he lost. Navi leaves, and after a few months Link goes after her. Link presumably never returns, why, we don't know. Leave that to fanfics.

[Showsni]

It's because we don't like having two Links existing at once, even if one of them is sealed in the Sacred Realm.

Maybe Link did help alleviate the suffering in the seven years? But he never took on Ganon head to head. Perhaps it would have been worse without him.

[Fyxe]

It's because we don't like having two Links existing at once, even if one of them is sealed in the Sacred Realm.

Why?

IT'S BLOODY TIME TRAVEL. That sort of thing happens. What's so horrible about it?

[MikePetersSucks]

MPS, you are driving me CRAZY with your lack of comprehension of simple time travel basics. NO NAVI WOULD NOT HAVE TO RETURN TO LINK BECAUSE SHE WAS SEALED FOR SEVEN YEARS ALONG WITH HIM. Her reaction when they awaken proves this.

If we can't have two Links, how the hell can we have two Navi's? XP maybe Navi's past consciousness somehow, but not her physical body. Because not only is there a free Navi running around, but this time around, Link wasn't like...sealed. and stuff. Y'know.

Now to address your other point... What makes you think Link was trapped in Termina for seven years? That doesn't seem to make much sense, because both Skull Kid and the Mask Salesman seem to be able to go back and forth with little trouble, so I see no reason why Link could not return.

Meh. Just a theory of where Link was all these years without interrupting with the natural flow of time. >_> Frankly, it's irrevelent. Either way, he wasn't in Hyrule.

And Link being 'possessed by his younger self' is just... Why? WHY? It doesn't even make SENSE. Link DRAWS the Master Sword and is sealed in the Sacred Realm. He AWAKENS in the Sacred Realm. Link VANISHES from Hyrule for seven years. HOW would ANOTHER version of himself come along and draw the Master Sword when it's already been drawn and presumably there's a big portal of some kind in it's place.

Dude. Chill out. The second time around, if there IS such an event, there wouldn't BE a Link in the Sacred Realm, since like, Link put the sword DOWN at the Child Timeline Era >_> As for the Child Consciousness thing, that's just a pet theory of mine to explain how the Goddesses would compensate to keep history the same and/or making sure Link doesn't "cheat" or something with the puzzles. Or something.

IT'S BLOODY TIME TRAVEL. That sort of thing happens. What's so horrible about it?

Not when Link isn't physically traveling through time. He seals himself to go forward, and sends his soul back in time to go backward. No transfer of physical matter EVER occurs. If Link can send his consciousness backward, why not forward? LIEK OMG. >_> Like, what happens to Link's body when he goes into the past or when the game ends? I can't imagine Link's future body being in the Sacred Realm for all time >_> Thusly, we need a consciousness to control it. Insert Adult Consciousness here. Now chill out with the caps. It makes you look like a n00b or something.

[Fyxe]

Ok, I emplore you to find ONE quote from the game that says it's just his consciousness being sent back in time.

How hard is it for people to grasp the concept that when Link travels back in time, his body changes accordingly?

I hate to explain the way time travel works yet again, but just because Link puts the Master Sword down doesn't mean he never picked it up. That makes absolutely no sense. Lets look at it from a fly-on-the-wall perspective in the young Link time...

1 - The Door of Time opens, Link and Navi come in, Link draws the Master Sword, he vanishes and a gateway to the Sacred Realm opens and Ganondorf follows.
2 - The gateway vanishes and young Link reappears. He leaves the building. He returns after getting the Lens of Truth. He draws the sword again, and vanishes once more.
3 - Same thing happens again, but Link gets the Silver Guantlets.
4 - Link reappears for a final time and places the Master Sword back for good and closes the Door of Time.

Now, there NEEDS to at least be one Link sealed in the Sacred Realm when Link first reappears. There has to be. Why?

Lets look at what has occured when Link first appears as an adult...

He has no Lens of Truth, no Silver Guantlets, yet the Song of Storms has been played by his younger self, and Nabooru has been brainwashed by Twinrova.
That MEANS that all of the stuff he does when he goes back in time has already happened. Basically this means he can't change the future. With me so far?

However, when Link first awakens, he does not have the Lens of Truth or the Silver Guantlets. Now, if I pretend that Link can somehow change the future (although he can't), then by your logic and if it's just consciouness travelling back in time, logically he should have the Lens of Truth and the Silver Guantlets as soon as he wakes up. He doesn't.

But if you stop assuming that it's just his consciousness travelling back and forth, this isn't a problem. There's a Link and Navi sealed in the Sacred Realm at all times. Time travel using the Master Sword is just that. Time travel. Nothing in the game ever says otherwise. It's just time travel.

Also, the ending makes no sense by your logic. By your logic, by closing the Door of Time and leaving Hyrule, Link 'unseals' himself from the Sacred Realm. So he never awakens in seven years and saves Hyrule from Ganon. Then what's the point? What's the point of the entire game if it never happens?

I use caps because I'm trying to make people LISTEN. >.>

[SOAP]

I been thinking about this last night before I went to bed and I think that maybe it is a physical sort time travel. Maybe time traveling in OoT is supposed to be a lot simpler than we had thought. It'd be something more like a video tape that you can rewind, fast forward, and record over. It may be possible that Link ages backwards when he goes back in time as well. He doesn't have the protection of a time capsule or a Delorean so his physical body suffers the same effects as the world around him. If he rewinds time, he rewinds himself, back seven years to the very last molecule. Going foward is a different story. I still think he just gets sent back into Sacred Realm every time to sleep for seven years, allowing Ganon to take over Hyrule, yadda, yadda. But it could be possible that what he expereinces in the Temple of Light in purely spiritual and his still standing over the sword all those years, aging according to the time that passes but somehow not starving to death or having someone interrupt him while his mind is on hiatus. It's probably that his molecules are moving so fast that no one sees him there and all they see is a sword.

[Showsni]

With rewinding time, though, we know that his mind isn't rewound as he remembers what happens in the future. His brain/spirit/consciousness or whatever needs protection from being rewound. Which, effectively, results in his consciousness being "sent back in time," as it were.
It contravenes the law of entropy, but who cares about physics? Mathematically, rewinding time should work.