127 replies to this topic

[Fyxe]

Unfortuately MK., that pretty much just screws up the plot of *all* the later games in the series, from Majora's Mask to Wind Waker to A Link to the Past.

Plus it doesn't really coincide with Zelda's final words before she sends Link back to the past.

It also causes the massive paradoxical problem of there being TWO Triforce of Courages.

Link cannot be sent back before Ganondorf enters the Sacred Realm. It just doesn't make any sense. If he does, what happens to the other Triforce of Courage if and when Ganon touches the Triforce?

[Chaltab]

My theory for sesquence of events:

-Ganondorf chases Zelda and Impa out of the castle

-Zelda throws the OoT into the moat.

-Ganon confronts Link

-Ganon rides off, but then decides to follow Link, who leads him to the Temple of Time and opens the gate to the Sacred Realm. It is only open briefly and Ganon is trapped inside until he finds the Triforce of Power. This could take days, weeks, maybe months or years.

-Zelda and Impa learn that Ganondorf has dissapeared and return to the castle where they are relatively safe.

-Ganon leaves the sacred realm with the ability to conjur armies of the undead and attacks the castle. The king is killed, and Impa and Zelda flee.

-Seven years after he first touched the Master Sword, Link awakens and fights Ganon. When he is returned to the past, he leaves and seals the sacred realm right after Ganondorf first entered, sealing him away with nothing but his clothes and the ToP.

[Fyxe]

Chaltab, that's exactly what I'm seeing.

I must point out; if one accepts that the events of OoT are the Imprisoning War, it is said in the manual for ALttP that it took time after Ganon got the Triforce before evil started to spread from the Sacred Realm/Dark World. Therefore he did not attack instantly (for one, he had to build up an army first). Although judging by Majora's Mask, we know this already. I'm just pointing this out because it lends plenty of time for Impa and Zelda to return.

[31-Year-Old-From-Georgia]

The only problem with Chaltab's theory, which I feel is best and concurs with my own almost 7 years of pondering, is the Ocarina of Time that is taken by Link and sealed with him for the 7 years and Zelda appears to keep it at the end, but also needs to give it to Link at the beginning of Majora's Mask. I guess you could assume that child Link keeps it... though there really isn't any basis for this assumption.

But I think them's the breaks of trying to tie together all these games whose stories, as mentioned by the creators, are kind of afterthoughts.


Another trivial matters is Epona. Clearly Link leaves on Epona in Majora's Mask but also needs to be won in Ocarina of Time off of Ingo. Then again I don't think you need Epona to beat the game... correct me if I'm wrong.

It is made quite clear that Zelda gives Link the OoT and Link gets Epona between the N64 games. In the flashback, Zelda says something about the months she and Link have spent together. It's kind of obvious Link has done some things we don't know about in those months. It's more fun to use imagination with those kind of things (I assume Malon lent Link Epona as a favor).

[Hana-Nezumi]

Oi, can you believe we are still arguing about a game that came out SEVEN YEARS AGO? Oh well, I'll just throw in my two cents:
-OoT obviously was originally intended to be the imprisoning war, but now it seems Nintendo just can't make up their minds.
-WW definitely comes after MM. There are various references.
-There IS a split timeline. We see both timelines in OoT's ending! I will be happy to spell it out if you want me to.

[SOAP]

Yes. It is weird. And the series has revolved around OoT ever since. MM, sequel. TWW, sequel but 100's of years after with a different Link. FSA and TMC, prequels? And now TP which seems to go between OoT and TWW. It seems odd that most of the attention seems to be around one game in the timeline and every time Nintendo comes up with a new game, it's placement is always near OoT. I for one, think OoT should be left alone and any more OOT sequels would only make inconsistencies in it only worse.

[Zythe]

Actually, since FS on the GB, all the 2d games have revolved around it. Technically, OoT revolves around LttP.

[Fyxe]

-There IS a split timeline. We see both timelines in OoT's ending! I will be happy to spell it out if you want me to.

You see both timelines but it doesn't necessarily mean they're split. One is the future, the other is the past.

[SOAP]

Yup. When I finished OoT for the very first time, I figured there were probably two distinct possibilities. A. When Link was sent back, it erased the other future and the new future is the one where Ganon is stuck in the Sacred Realm when Link closed the door and he never rose to power. The End. Or B. Ganon is only stuck in there momentarily and escapes while Link is off to Termina and the OoT Future happens anyways. Complete Circle! 12 Monkeys.

[Kairu Hakubi]

Precisely, Jr. I prefer A.

[SOAP]

Yeah. Sure. If you want to be less poetic about it... <_<

[Fyxe]

Unfortunately, the problem with A is that if the other future didn't exist (erased, as you say), why is everyone shown dancing about clearly celebrating Ganon's downfall if that future was erased? The Sages also appear in the ending, returning from the Sacred Realm and ending up upon Death Mountain looking over Hyrule.

The game never gives any real suggestion of any kind of split, in fact it shows the past and future side-by-side, and the way time works in OoT would also suggest that there is no split.

I'm not discounting the possiblity of a split completely, it just seems that OoT did not imply a split, merely this was something people added on.

[Zythe]

Because things don't cease to exist, just cease to count. You see them dancing, but then that doesn't happen. Am I making sense? It's happening but the laws of time travel say it isn't.

I could so explain this with Charmed references.

[MikePetersSucks]

Please do, Zythe. You're not making any sense. Are you saying like, the future is overwritten, like a computer document, instead of being erased and then replaced? or...something?

[Fyxe]

Charmed.

Charmed. Give me a break. Like that's the authority on time travel, now? O.o'' I should point out there ARE no laws of time travel, only theories.

You see them dancing, but they don't?

...The hell. Why show them dancing if they don't dance?

Why should Link have done ANYTHING if saving the world didn't matter?

[SOAP]

I don't know if you were around when I used OoA to explain how that future could be erased but people still remembered what happened anyways and the celebration you see is seven years later... in the alternate timeline.

[Zythe]

Charmed.

Charmed.  Give me a break.  Like that's the authority on time travel, now? O.o''  I should point out there ARE no laws of time travel, only theories.

You see them dancing, but they don't?

...The hell.  Why show them dancing if they don't dance?

Why should Link have done ANYTHING if saving the world didn't matter?

Of course there aren't but it's like layers in a photoshop document... they're still there even if the opacity's at 0. Argh. Well, my reference had to do with alternate planes and how time continued to flow but offset from a mainstrem. Technically, you could use that for multiple timelines anyway.

What I mean is, the OoT future is either still connected to the MM past and Link never leaves Termina or they're seperate and nothing follows the OoT future ending because it's peace at last.... for them.

[Hana-Nezumi]

What I mean is, the OoT future is either still connected to the MM past and Link never leaves Termina or they're seperate and nothing follows the OoT future ending because it's peace at last.... for them.

YES! That's what I've been trying to say all along! But the first option of them still being connected is not possible. Zelda says so:

All the tragedy that has befallen
Hyrule was my doing...
I was so young...I could not
comprehend the consequences of  
trying to control the Sacred Realm.
I dragged you into it, too.
Now it is time for me to make up  
for my mistakes...
You must lay the Master Sword to  
rest and close the Door of Time...  

However, by doing this, the road
between times will be closed...  

Link,
give the Ocarina to me...
As a Sage, I can return you
to your original time with it.  

When peace returns to Hyrule...
It will be time for us to say  
good-bye...  

Now, go home, Link.
Regain your lost time!
Home...  
where you are supposed to be...
the way you are supposed to be...  

See! The road is closed, so the timelines are no longer connected, and what happens in the past will no longer affect the future as it did throughout the whole game, making a split timeline possible!

[Fyxe]

...Assuming a bit much, aren't you?

Just because the connection between times isn't open doesn't mean anything. It just means nobody can go back and forth through the times. It doesn't mean a split timeline is possible at all. It doesn't mean anything. It just means a big door is closed.

[Hana-Nezumi]

But, if the big door is closed, it means no one can go between the future and the past anymore. And if no one can go to the future, then what happens to it? It is either re-written, or it branches off to create a new timeline. It MUST be the second, because we see the people partying and the sages awakened, someting that can only happen if the future is still there as another timeline.

[SOAP]

The door is closed because the revisions are done. Link needn't do any more for Hyrule in fututre so back in the past with him. Of course Ganon breaks out and the adult portion of the future happens again anyways. A Link arises from the past to stop him but for the version of Link that in MM it was over and done with.

[Zythe]

Well, DBZ logic dictates that time can't be erased and will continue if only theoretically in that from a linear perspective it never happened (not like MP's "The Wind Waker is a What If"). I like to say since Ganon is dead and things are all square in the OoT future, nothing interesting follows it. Of course, you can argue differently.

What your t/l, toast?

[Hana-Nezumi]

t/l? Ooooh, timeline! Well actually... I don't have one! XD It is my belief that a number of timelines is possible, and there is no one that is perfect!

[Fyxe]

But, if the big door is closed, it means no one can go between the future and the past anymore. And if no one can go to the future, then what happens to it? It is either re-written, or it branches off to create a new timeline. It MUST be the second, because we see the people partying and the sages awakened, someting that can only happen if the future is still there as another timeline.

Again, just because THE DOOR IS CLOSED, why does the future have to be overwritten or split into a different timeline?

Why?

It's really hard to argue this with people who don't understand basic time travel theories.

And don't bring Dragon Ball Z logic into this. Are you kidding me? All Dragon Ball Z is...

http://www.vgcats.co...s/?strip_id=148

See second panel.

[Zythe]

http://www.vgcats.co...s/?strip_id=148

See second panel.

Yeah. I saw that this morning. It's so true. And yes, DBZ does suck.

[Hana-Nezumi]

Because SOMETHING has to happen to Zelda after she sends Link back to the past! She either stays there and lives the rest of her life with Ganondorf sealed in the sacred realm, or she is erased. What else could happen to her?

[Fyxe]

What happens to Zelda? She lives her life with Ganondorf sealed in the Sacred Realm. What's the problem? That was the future ending. What has that got to do with Link closing the Door of Time?

[Hana-Nezumi]

Yes, it is the future ending! It has to go on and branch into another timeline! It doesn't just stop right there!

[Fyxe]

...But what makes it seperate from the ending in the past? What has closing the door got to do with making any kind of split?