151 replies to this topic

[mohammedali]

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As I said, I'm not going to go over this again. I've said what I had to say, and it was not to be taken as offensive or partonising. As you are new, I imagine the term fanwanking must have been a bit odd, but I did stipulate that it wasn't meant as an insult at least 3 times before this post. Anyway, lets just leave that behind now.

Firstly, in Wind Waker, we see that Ganon can somehow manifest himself beyond the seal of the GODS (gods being important) before it is broken.  The seal is still as intact as ever, so no he did not weaken it, but he can slowly regain his strength.  However, it isn't until Link breaks the seal that he regains his remaining strength.

Could you provide quotes for the following as my memory isn't too good with WW.
1) Where does it mention the Seal of the Gods, and what is this seal supposed to be on exactly.
2) Where does it say that the seal was imposed on Ganon as well (and not just Hyrule).
3) Where does it suggest the seal wasn't weakened in the slightest.

Secondly, in ALttP, Ganon could curse the land while remaining in the Sacred Realm, before the seal was broken in the slightest.  He also had an alter-ego in the form of Agahnim.  Agahnim pretends to halt the disasters plaguing Hyrule, gains the king's trust and proceeds with his plan to break the seal on the Sacred Realm, which, up until this point, has apparently remained intact.

But in WW we see that Ganon managed to come back to Hyrule in his true form, and reaked havoc. I can accept that Agahnim could do Ganons dirty work without the seal breaking, but how did Ganon escape completely in true form before the events of aLttP. Surely this would make the seal redundant.

Now, logically, if Ganon can manifest himself beyond the seal of the GODS as Ganondorf, albeit weakened, then it's not too much to suggest that he can manifest himself beyond the seal of the Sages in some form.  Remember the art at the start of Wind Waker was just a depiction, so he didn't necessarily appear in his pig form, although he may have.

So why are there picture of a pig? If it was human form, then surely we would have seen the human form in the pictures.

If Ganon's attack on Hyrule was simply him managing to influence the world beyond the seal in such a way that he can revive himself beyond the seal, that allows the seal to remain intact.  But the question arises of why he doesn't do this in ALttP.  Three possiblities...

1 - It's just too difficult.  Too fanficcy so I don't like that one.
2 - His defeat at the end of Wind Waker meant he was no longer able to revive himself beyond the seal.  Possible.
3 - He just wanted to break the seal for good so his full strength would rage, and so he used the guise of Agahnim to do it subtly and carefully.  With the quotes stating that he is weakened beyond the seal of the gods (and thus weakened when influencing the world beyond the Sages), this seems like a likely option.

Agahnim is confirmed as just being a puppet, so we know that Ganon and Agahnim are 2 different people. Also, this seems inconsistant with Ganon having been able to come in person before in true form. Firstly, if he wants to break the seal, then why not do it himself. Secondly, why bother breaking a seal if you can come back in full form without having to break it at all. Thirdly, how did he end up back behind the seal after WW and before aLttP without the seal being touched. Finally, why have a seal if it doesn't keep Ganon out?

Now this theory isn't perfect.  It relies on a bit of fanfic yes, but if you look at it from the perspective that the split-timeline theory doesn't exist, then it's no different from your theory that Tingle can travel from timeline to timeline.  We're both just trying to come up with possiblities of how the theories will work.

As I said, every theory requires fanfic, but I honestly don't see this being resolvable given the major problems. Having said that, maybe you can prove me wrong and provide a viable alternative to a timeline split, but as yet, I just don't see a single timeline working without a lot more fanfic than a split.

I base mine on the existence of Agahnim and the existence of Ganon beyond the seal of the gods (and when you think about it, the seal of the gods themselves should of been much stronger than the seal of the Sages) with neither seal being broken.  Therefore, why would he of needed to break the seal when he attacked Hyrule in WW's backstory?  Why did the gods have to resort to sealing Hyrule itself, surely they could of just forced Ganon back into the seal of the Sages?  My theory actually explains that by saying that the seal of the Sages was still intact but Ganon could STILL attack Hyrule.  So the gods took drastic measures.

All good and well, but if Ganon could bypass the seal in WW BS without breaking it, then there is no canon reason that he can't do it again in aLttP. Hence, why break the seal? also, how did he get 'resealed' without the seal being touched?

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Once again, let's not get into all this. I almost feel you enjoy this 'bickering'. I'm not being aggressive towards you, nor do I consider myself 'holier' than you (whatever you mean by that), so don't worry too much about it. And yes I did get your joke, and yes I am British.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, that this time I actually won't be replying too often, as I really have a lot of work to do.

Mohammed Ali

[Fyxe]

Well, ok, I apologise for me acting overly ticked off if I was, thank you muchly for being reasonable this time. I don't enjoy the bickering at all, arguing on message boards ticks me off to no end, really. Maybe I was overly sensitive, maybe I misread your tone, I don't know. Things are all bleh for me personally right now and I'm sick to top it off, so yes, lets leave all that behind.

I will edit this post to address the points you made about my timeline a little later. Good luck with your revision.