151 replies to this topic

[martinDTanderson]

Thats right, call it a cop out if you will, but I have decided the Capcom games exist in their own timeline along with the 4 Swords games.

Until I find evidence to the contrary, I am sticking with these two timelines.

Capcom = MC, FS, Oracles, FSA, FSDS?


Nintendo = OoT, TWW, HF, AoL, Zelda05?
----------------------|- MM, ALttP, LA

Can't believe I forgot Links Awakening...

[Crazy Penguin]

No love for Link's Awakening.

[Vazor]

Alright, who prophesized the second coming of Mike Peters...

You can't just disregaurd them into their own timeline. I don't mind if you just lump them together at the end or the beginning (you could place them in LOGICAL spots, but who am I to judge?), but you can't just say they don't count in ihe regular timeline.

[D~N]

and NES LoZ is where?
good idea, I thought of this once, but didn't like the idea, why, I don't remember, but I found some problem with it.

[Crazy Penguin]

and NES LoZ is where?

HF = The Hyrule Fantasy. In Japan it was called The Legend of Zelda: The Hyrule Fantasy.

[martinDTanderson]

Alright, who prophesized the second coming of Mike Peters...

You can't just disregaurd them into their own timeline. I don't mind if you just lump them together at the end or the beginning (you could place them in LOGICAL spots, but who am I to judge?), but you can't just say they don't count in ihe regular timeline.

Don't be alarmed, I am no Mike Peters...

I have been away from the forums for a while, because I am utterly frustrated at the state of the Zelda Storyline, to the extent I am prepared to take this bold step, and seperate Capcom's "Contribution" to the Zelda Ethos.

I think my timeline makes sense, I am not ready to post detailed discussion points and reasonings until I see the release of this new Zelda game.

Search through the forums, I'm sure you will find a past timeline of mine, to see how I view the timelines, before I concluded Capcom has made a mess of everything, and why I am seperating the two developer's games.

[Ginkasa]

Completely separate timelines have already been suggested before, so I don't see why martinDTanderson's is so "the return of Mike Peters!"

Considering that the Capcom games have been so different story and gameplay wise, I don't see how separate timelines could be so far fetched.

[HarryHatMan]

Welcome back Martin, i can see why you've been away, and your proposal is perfectly logical as none of them have references to the IW or OOT as all the rest to (disregaring the NES versions)

[coinilius]

Yeah, the Capcom/FS games being seperate has been suggested before, so I don't see why people are jumping all over Martin for suggesting it here (BTW, good to hear from you again Martin:) ).

Also, unlike with the whole Mike Peters/Luigi64 thing, I think Martin suggests something more along the lines of, say how the Ultimate Mavel universe is connected to the regular Marvel universe - two valid, seperate takes on the source material, with their own unique continuities etc.

[mohammedali]

Man, whats with people being accused of being Mike Peters or Mikepeterism just for having different views. That shit is getting seriously old. 'huh? you disagree... well, your just another Mike Peters aren't you'.

martinDTanderson: It looks like a pretty good timeline, though I will add that both the box and the Japanese manuel infer that Link in aLttP is NES Link's desendant, so putting them in the same timeline might be an idea. As fpr the Capcom games being seperate... I can understand why you may say that and it's not the first time I've heard this idea. However, they don't cause that much problem that they need to discounted. As Vazor said, they can, if nothing else, go grouped together at the end of the timeline. Your call. Oh, and welcome back

Mohammed Ali

[Arutha]

Not only have you put the Capcom games in their own universe but you have a split timeline in the Nintendo universe. You were a single Timeline theorist before.

[martinDTanderson]

Well TWW caused me to split the timeline, With Link going to termina, that means MM must happen after OoT, but TWW means ALttP cannot take place in the same timeline, so splitting them is ok.

LA could also take place after AoL, but with the new Zelda, showing Link with the Birthmark, It may require re-thinking.

Link in a village outside of Hyrule, sounds very AoL to me!

[mohammedali]

You were a single Timeline theorist before.

Nothing wrong with him realising his mistakes

Mohammed Ali

[Zythe]

Heya! mDTa* is back! Anyway, I don't think there are flaws with your timeline. The only thing is the "up-in-the-air" canon status of the Capcom games, which can logically, exist in their own universe seeing as they all make way for themselves to exist.

EDIT: Shouldn't it be FSA-Something (zo5??)-Oracles, because he dies in FSA, though?

[Fyxe]

The problem is, there are direct links between ALttP and Four Swords, are there not?

Also, while it certainly could be possible to seperate the Capcom games (although I must point out they are collaborations between Capcom AND Nintendo) if you wanted to, as none of them are obvious sequels to any of the Nintendo own games (unlike games like OoT and MM which are direct sequels), there are plenty of reasons to link the games.

For example, in the Oracle series, Ganon is dead and is being revived. That's the main plot. This suggests it occurs after ALttP or AoL. Something must of happened before to kill Ganon in the first place, so the obvious suggestion seems to be that they *probably* occur sometime after ALttP and LA (although it is a seperate Link, as he does not know Zelda).

As for the rest of the Capcom games, I think it's a bit much to suggest they are entirely seperate from the other games, as there *are* links between the games and the rest of the timeline. However, they do all seem to occur in their own section of the timeline entirely (MC, FS, FSA). I would need to finish playing MC and FSA to judge this fully, however.

[martinDTanderson]

Heya! mDTa* is back! Anyway, I don't think there are flaws with your timeline. The only thing is the "up-in-the-air" canon status of the Capcom games, which can logically, exist in their own universe seeing as they all make way for themselves to exist.

EDIT: Shouldn't it be FSA-Something (zo5??)-Oracles, because he dies in FSA, though?

Ganon is sealed in FSA, Vaati is killed.

[Zythe]

Yeah. Sorry. What I meant was, he's sealed in FSA but he's killed before OoX.

[Masamune]

As wonderful as this all is, I'm going to maniacally destroy your theory by informing you that Four Swords Adventure was made by Nintendo EAD and NOT by Capcom.

[martinDTanderson]

Which is why I said the Capcom games go into their own timeline, with the Four Swords Games. FSA was built upon the story and gameplay introduced by capcom.

[D~N]

HF = The Hyrule Fantasy. In Japan it was called The Legend of Zelda: The Hyrule Fantasy.

Aww, crud I so knew that!! I was so tierd then, I wasn't thinking (well, that's no different)

Anyway, the fact that FSA is made by Nintendo is the 'flaw' I said I thought of when this was in my own _little_ mind. That, and the text on the lttp box, said by someone above me *points up* yeah, look up there somewhere

[MikePetersSucks]

Capcom = MC, FS, Oracles, FSA, FSDS?


Nintendo = OoT, TWW, HF, AoL, Zelda05?  
----------------------|- MM, ALttP, LA

Ok, nice theory, but first, we gotta dissect it ^^ tis the will of the lord. (me)

Capcom: This is all well and good, but shouldn't FS and FSA be clumped together? They have the same Link, and there's not much time for OOX to go in. Then there's OOX. Well, for one thing, this is the only game in this Mythos that makes reference to the Triforce and Ganon's death, so that messes a whole lotta crap up. Not to mention FSA's and OOX's obvious ties to the Nintendo plotline.

Nintendo: All well and good, but split timelines are...well I won't get into that today. But if you are going to have a split timeline, it would make sense to put LTTP/LA with LOZ/AOL because of their whole descendant thing >.> Otherwise you'll need a shitload of fanfiction, too much for any theory. Behold my timeline and compare for yourself.

[Octorok]

It seems to me that the entire point of having a separate capcom timeline would be for convenience.

[D~N]

Well, they are the sidequests, aren't they? But it is extremely convienient to do the whole seperation thing, but it works, so eh. fix the lttp/la-hf-aol thing and its OK.

[Zythe]

I don't think that FS and HA Link are the same at ALL. Oh, and strangely, the Nintendo-made game of the lot: FSA, has a lot more timeline-screwing rammifications.

[martinDTanderson]

OK Here is my Explaination, I'll try not to go to fast for you all lol Link's Awakening has several placement options,..

Capcom = MC, FS, Oracles, LA?, FSA, FSDS?


Nintendo = Zelda05? OoT, TWW, HF, AoL, LA
------------------------------------|- MM, ALttP, LA?



Capcom Storyline

We begin with the Hero of Man, he fought great evil (Ganon) and saved the world with the help of gifts from the Picori. The Light Force and a Mighty Sword. This gifts passed into the hands of Princess Zelda, who kept them guarded within the royal family.

Then the Events of The Minish Cap take place:

• The Release of Evil
• The Rise of Vaati
• The Forging of the Four Sword
• The Next Hero Emerges
• Vaati's Imprisonment

Generations pass, and the present Princess Zelda meets her childhood friend Link to investigate the seal on Vaati in the Four Sword Shrine (The Elemental Sanctuary overgrown)

Then the Events of Four Swords take place:

• Vaati's release
• Zelda's Capture and Rescue
• Vaati's Re-Sealing

More time passes, A traveler named Link travels through Hyrule, before being chosen by the Triforce to go on a quest to protect the Oracles of the Gods.

Then the Events of Oracle of Seasons and Ages take place:

• Zelda and Impa meets this New Hero
• Zelda is Captured
• Link rescues the Oracles
• Link disrupts Zelda's Sacrifice
• Ganon's Resurection is Foiled
• Link Sails Away, Zelda Returns to Hyrule

In time Link returns from his adventures out at sea (LA Possibility 1 - As he is seen leaving on a boat) And once again Trouble is a foot at the Four Swords Shrine

The Events of Four Swords Adventures take place:

• Vaati's Release by Dark Link
• The Shrine Maidens are Captured
• A Dark Force is Being Revived, and Creatures are Falling Under his Influence
• The Maidens are Rescued
• Zelda is Captured
• Vaati is Finally Defeated
• Ganon Rises Again
• Ganon is Sealed Within the Four Sword and the Prism Seal

Then we come to the upcoming Four Swords DS game, which could go at the end, or in between the other Four Swords Games.



Nintendo Storyline

This timeline has two branches, and so I will begin with detailing the events which split into two destinies...

The World was created, and the Triforce was formed with the essence of the three godesses. Ancient Hylian sages built a temple to house and protect this artifact, and a gateway was formed between Hyrule and the Sacred Realm.

Fierce Wars spread throughout the races of Hyrule. For 50 years the fighting split the land apart, and brought destruction to all parts of the land. The King of Hyrule finally brought peace to the land, and united all the regions into one country.

Rumours and speculation suggest this may be where the upcoming Zelda 2005 game takes place, so it goes here for now...

A widow, who's partner was a soldier during the wars, fled into the forests and entrusted her only child to the Kokiri. This child would become a great hero, and would initiate the events which would begin The Legend of Zelda.

The Events of Ocarina of Time take place:

• Link Finally Recieves a Fairy
• Link Meets Zelda
• They Realise Ganondorf was Seeking the Gateway to the Sacred Realm
• Link Finds the Keys to the Gateway
• Zelda Flees the Castle Town
• Ganondorf Gets the Triforce, but it Seperates
• Link Travels 7 years into the Future
• Link Rescues the Sages
• Zelda Reveals Herself, and the fact they Hold pieces of the Triforce
• Ganondorf Kidnaps Zelda
• Link Confronts Ganondorf
• Ganondorf Defeated, uses his Triforce to Become Ganon (His First Appearence in the Saga)
• Link Travels Back in Time, The Fairy Leaves
• Link Closes the Gateway, Sealing Ganondorf In

Then this is where the Timeline Seperates...


Child Timeline

This is where the Events of Majora's Mask take place:

• Link leaves Hyrule to set off in Search of his Fairy Companion
• He Stumbles on Termina
• Using his Ocarina, he Manipulates Time
• He Awakens the 4 Giants
• Link Saves the World, and Returns on his Search

This Link then disappears from the Timeline, Generations pass, and after drought and pestilence, a mysterious man emerges to quell these disasters, Aghanim

Then the Events of A Link to the Past take place:

• Zelda and the 7 Sages are Imprisoned and begin Vanishing
• Zelda contacts Link's Uncle
• Link follows his Uncle to Find him Dead
• Link Meets Zelda
• They Travel through the Sewers to the Sanctuary
• Link goes off in Search of the Master Sword
• Link gets it to Find Zelda Captured
• Zelda Vanishes, and Link Defeats Aghanim
• Link is Drawn into the Sacred Realm now a Dark World
• Link rescues the 7 Sages
• Link defeats Aghanim a Second Time, to find it is Ganon in Disguise
• Link battles Ganon with the Triforce and Defeats Him

As this timeline ends, its possible Link's Awakening takes place now


Adult Timeline

After defeating Ganon with Zelda's Help, the Hero of Time, vanishes, as he travels back 7 years. Ganon sealed away, the world proclaims Link a great hero.

Time passes, and as the Seal on the Dark World weakens, Ganon is able to escape, but his Power is still trapped by the seal. He begins his plan to take revenge on Link, Zelda and the Maidens.

He begins his attack on Hyrule, and the people prayed that the Hero of Time would return to save them, they were wrong... In a last ditch effort to protect their world, they pray to the Gods, who freeze the land of Hyrule in Time, and flood the world above them.

Islands form, and a new land begins, and almost all knowledge of the Past is lost.

The Events of The Wind Waker take place:

• Link's Sister is Kidnapped
• A Band of Pirates Arrive
• Link goes with the Pirates to Rescue his Sister
• Link arrives at Forsaken Fortress, and finds his Sister
• Link is Taken to a Dark Man at the top of the Fortress
• After being Flung into the Ocean, Link is Recued by a Talking Boat
• Link Learns the Dark Man is Ganondorf, and is Told about his Past
• Link Agrees to Help Defeat Him
• Link Opens a Passage down into Old Hyrule Beneath the Waves
• There He Finds the Master Sword, and Takes It
• The Time Freeze is Lifted, and Hyrule comes to Life
• Link Agrees to Find Princess Zelda who is Somewhere on the Surface
• Link confronts Ganondorf, and finds the Master Sword is Powerless
• Link Travels to Hyrule with the Pirate Leader, who turns out to be Zelda
• She learns she Holds one the Triforce of Wisdom
• Link goes off to Find the Sage's Decendants, to Restore the Master Sword
• Link also Reunites the Scattered Fragments of the Triforce of Courage
• Link takes the Restored Master Sword and Triforce to Zelda in Hyrule
• But Ganon Has Restored his Power, and has Taken Her to his Tower Below the Waves
• Link goes to Defeat Ganondorf
• Ganondorf takes Link and Zelda's Pieces of the Triforce, and unites all three
• The King of Hyrule appears and Takes the Whole Triforce
• Link defeates Ganondorf, and turns him to Stone
• The King Wishes Old Hyrule away, and Link and Zelda return to the Surface
• Link and Zelda sail off North in search of a new Land to call Hyrule

A Long time passes, Somehow the waters have washed away, and Old Hyrule returns to the Surface. A wastland of underground labyrinths, and ruined buildings, The Master Sword has washed away, and Ganondorf has returned. After stealing the Triforce of Power, and attempting to steal the Triforce of Wisdom, Ganondorf has transformed into Ganon permanently and has kidnapped Princess Zelda.

The Events of Hyrule Fantasy take place:

• The Triforce of Wisdom is scattered into 8 fragments, hidden in Underground Labyrinths
• Zelda's Nursemaid, Impa, Stumbles upon a Traveler called Link
• Link agrees to Reunite the Triforce, and Rescue Zelda
• Link Fights Ganon and Kills Him, turning him into Ash
• Link gives the Triforces of Wisdom and Power to Zelda

Several Years have passed, and as Old Hyrule is being restored, and rebuilt, Northern Hyrule continues to florish. On Link's 16th birthday, a strange birthmark appears on his hand. Like the previous Heros before, the mark is in the shape of the Triforce. Impa takes Link to an abandoned castle, and tells him about a Princess Zelda (from Wind Waker Perhaps?) who was placed into a cursed sleep, when she wouldnt hand the Triforce of Courage over to he brother, who was to be crowned King.

Then the Events of The Adventure of Link take place:

• Ganon's Followers, are Planning His Revival, by getting The Blood of Link
• Link Sets off in Search for the Triforce of Courage to be used to Awaken Zelda
• Link has to place Crystals in 6 Palaces to open the Valley of the Dead
• Once Open, Link passes through to the Great Palace
• There Link defeats the final Guardian set to Test the Hero's Courage
• Then Link has to Fight his Own Dark Shadow
• Once Defeated, Link Recieves the Triforce of Courage, as is his Destiny, because he bears the mark of the Hero on his Hand
• Link Awakens Zelda

With Zelda awake, and Hyrule on the road to recovery, This is the most Ideal place for Link's Awakening to be placed. The Instruction Manual does say, Link set off to search for any threats which may arise from Ganon's Ashes. As it is only in HF and AoL that Ganon's Ashes are mentioned, this is my basis for the idea.

Link has been away for some time, and is on his way back to Hyrule across the Great Hyrulean Sea. Suddenly a Storm brews, and Link finds himself unconcious out at sea.

In his dream-like state, Link then begins a quest within himself to fight to awaken from his 'coma' or weather he stays asleep, and possibly drowns to death. Dreams happen at very fast speeds, so it is possible the events of this game happen in a matter of seconds or minutes.

The Events of Link's Awakening take place:

• Link Washes up on the Shores of Koholint Island
• Link Finds his Sword and Shield and Starts to Find a way off the Island
• Link Learns the only way to leave is to Wake the Wind Fish
• Link sets off to find the 8 Instruments of the Sirens
• Marin, the girl who Found Link falls in Love with him
• Link Learns the Island doesnt Exist and that it is all a Dream
• If Link Wakes Up, everyone will Vanish, including Marin
• Link Decides to Wake the Wind Fish with the Instruments
• Link Fights Shadows Representing the Enemies, previous incarnations of Heros have Fought
• Link Awakens
• He sees, a Sillohette of the Wind Fish Floating in the Sky, but is it real?

Link remains at Sea, and nothing more is known about him.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So there is my storyline, I dont think there is any fan fiction there, and I am happy to explain in more details any parts you dont understand or dont see where I am coming from.

[Crazy Penguin]

So Twinrova go through a whole lot of trouble trying to revive Ganon, and fail, but then he's revived within a few months whilst nobody's watching?

We know for a fact that LttP takes place before the NES games, it says so on the back of the box.

Link's Awakening's prologue says that Link had "fulfilled the Hyrulian prophecy of the Legendary Hero and destroyed the evil tyrant Ganon". This is an obvious reference to LttP.

[Showsni]

You haven't put the Four Swords backstory anywhere.

[martinDTanderson]

So Twinrova go through a whole lot of trouble trying to revive Ganon, and fail, but then he's revived within a few months whilst nobody's watching?

We know for a fact that LttP takes place before the NES games, it says so on the back of the box.

Link's Awakening's prologue says that Link had "fulfilled the Hyrulian prophecy of the Legendary Hero and destroyed the evil tyrant Ganon". This is an obvious reference to LttP.

Though you fufilled the Hyrulian prophecy of the Legendary Hero and destroyed
the evil tyrant Ganon, the land of Hyrule enjoyed only a precarious peace. "Who
knows what threats may arise from Ganon's ashes?"

[Zythe]

Capcom Storyline

We begin with the Hero of Man, he fought great evil (Ganon) and saved the world with the help of gifts from the Picori. The Light Force and a Mighty Sword. This gifts passed into the hands of Princess Zelda, who kept them guarded within the royal family.

Then the Events of The Minish Cap take place:

   * The Release of Evil
   * The Rise of Vaati
   * The Forging of the Four Sword
   * The Next Hero Emerges
   * Vaati's Imprisonment

Generations pass, and the present Princess Zelda meets her childhood friend Link to investigate the seal on Vaati in the Four Sword Shrine (The Elemental Sanctuary overgrown)

Then the Events of Four Swords take place:

   * Vaati's release
   * Zelda's Capture and Rescue
   * Vaati's Re-Sealing

More time passes, A traveler named Link travels through Hyrule, before being chosen by the Triforce to go on a quest to protect the Oracles of the Gods.

Then the Events of Oracle of Seasons and Ages take place:

   * Zelda and Impa meets this New Hero
   * Zelda is Captured
   * Link rescues the Oracles
   * Link disrupts Zelda's Sacrifice
   * Ganon's Resurection is Foiled
   * Link Sails Away, Zelda Returns to Hyrule

In time Link returns from his adventures out at sea (LA Possibility 1 - As he is seen leaving on a boat) And once again Trouble is a foot at the Four Swords Shrine

Vaati's killed in TMC. How can he become freed from the sword in FS? Also, Ganon is dead before OoA? Explain.