Yes, but why was he corrupted? To skimp on the more important area of plotlines! Hell, they could have invented some tribe that found a way into Minishville and corrupted him and thus added at least another level. The game was rushed, and whilst Ganon is 50mXmore a character than he was in FSGBA and HA, he's still lacking in terms of development.
How evil is Ganondorf?
Started by
Marty
, Feb 09 2005 08:47 PM
104 replies to this topic
#62
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Posted 12 February 2005 - 06:58 PM
Well no it doesn't explain why that Vaati became enchanted by the wickedness within the hearts of men, but we still know that Vaati was but a boy when Ezlo took him in. Ezlo took care of him, but the young minish Vaati was astonished, somehow infatuated with the greedy people the men above him. He must have seen these greedy men took action and used force to gain their what they wanted. This must have intrigued the spirited young minish boy, so he ended up idolizing them. Thus he used Ezlo's magical cap to do the same thing that they did. Use it as a tool to gain his own aspirations for conquest and become master of the world.
And yes I will agree that Ganon is lacking in the development terms of characterization as well. His best was in the Wind Waker I believe, but that still doesn't mean that Vaati and Ganondorf aren't interesting characters. We still get to know some things on how the act. For instance judging the character of Vaati I would say that he has a certain flair to him, and seems flamboyant in the way he moves and laughs. Ganondorf on the other hand is demanding and tries to use his imposing figure as a means to strike fear into the hearts of others. Both are interesting and I like them both, and I also like General Onox, Veran, Majora's Mask and Agahnim even though they too don't exactly have the best characterization either.
And yes I will agree that Ganon is lacking in the development terms of characterization as well. His best was in the Wind Waker I believe, but that still doesn't mean that Vaati and Ganondorf aren't interesting characters. We still get to know some things on how the act. For instance judging the character of Vaati I would say that he has a certain flair to him, and seems flamboyant in the way he moves and laughs. Ganondorf on the other hand is demanding and tries to use his imposing figure as a means to strike fear into the hearts of others. Both are interesting and I like them both, and I also like General Onox, Veran, Majora's Mask and Agahnim even though they too don't exactly have the best characterization either.
#63
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Posted 12 February 2005 - 07:03 PM
Well Vaati is clearly gay and Veran does indeed strike me as a lesbian, with her forceful mannerisms. Yes, Veran and Onox are my fave characters in Zelda ever, especially Veran. She's so cool.
As for Ganon, yes he's cool but for some reason I preferred him before they turned him into a ginger. Or a human for that matter.
Meh.
Anyone else agree that Vaati is sort of like a magician in that he has to entertain and put on a show, and that he has a womanly quality about his first sorcerer transformation and his laugh??
As for Ganon, yes he's cool but for some reason I preferred him before they turned him into a ginger. Or a human for that matter.
Meh.
Anyone else agree that Vaati is sort of like a magician in that he has to entertain and put on a show, and that he has a womanly quality about his first sorcerer transformation and his laugh??
#64
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Posted 12 February 2005 - 07:18 PM
Well I wouldn't say that Vaati is gay, just presents himself in a more flattering manner. I mean most people would suggest that Kuja from Final Fantasy IX was gay, but I don't think he was, he just took a different appearance to look different from others. Same could be said about Sephiroth from Final Fantasy VII. They think that since he has long hair and swings it to the side at times that he is feminime, but even if he was that still doesn't make him gay.
Still though just because Vaati has a sense of flair to him doesn't mean that he is gay, he would need to show some sort of signs of being attracted to the same sex which I do not see him doing in the game, though he could be gay, but then again why would he want to marry Zelda in Four Sword.
Also why do you think Veran is a lesbian? And yes she is [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] cooler than Onox in my eyes. Whenever I read her dialogue I use the voice of Maleficent in my head because she sort of reminds me of her, you know with all the darkness and shadows and stuff covering the land.
I like Onox too, but he seemed a bit dull in my eyes. Also why do you think Ganon seems more ginger as a gerudo. Sure he is more violent and ominous as the Dark Lord Ganon, but Ganondorf helps give him some character I think, but that is just my opinion.
Still though just because Vaati has a sense of flair to him doesn't mean that he is gay, he would need to show some sort of signs of being attracted to the same sex which I do not see him doing in the game, though he could be gay, but then again why would he want to marry Zelda in Four Sword.
Also why do you think Veran is a lesbian? And yes she is [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] cooler than Onox in my eyes. Whenever I read her dialogue I use the voice of Maleficent in my head because she sort of reminds me of her, you know with all the darkness and shadows and stuff covering the land.
I like Onox too, but he seemed a bit dull in my eyes. Also why do you think Ganon seems more ginger as a gerudo. Sure he is more violent and ominous as the Dark Lord Ganon, but Ganondorf helps give him some character I think, but that is just my opinion.
#65
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Posted 12 February 2005 - 10:45 PM
Ganondorf didn't seem to like a lot the fact of being an evil creature in The Wind Waker, he even seems to be trying to inspire compassion in Zelda and Link, to make them see what he has suffered, he actually seems to be slightly mild with them. For example, when he tells Link that he won't kill him, or when he talks him about the desert.
[/size]
Notice too that he calls himself Ganondorf (his human name), and the King calls him Ganon. Ganondorf seems to want to be still a human, he still has good feelings. He seems to be wise and cultured, probably because of his age.
[size=1]Think about it, isn't it reasonable for him to get mad when the King frustrated his plans? Maybe he wanted to be a good ruler, maybe because of the experience he could have aqcuired through time.
[/size]
Notice too that he calls himself Ganondorf (his human name), and the King calls him Ganon. Ganondorf seems to want to be still a human, he still has good feelings. He seems to be wise and cultured, probably because of his age.
[size=1]Think about it, isn't it reasonable for him to get mad when the King frustrated his plans? Maybe he wanted to be a good ruler, maybe because of the experience he could have aqcuired through time.
#66
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Posted 13 February 2005 - 12:10 AM
I say all Ganondorf's WW kindness is just him trying to lure the heroes into a false sense of security. Either that or he had one of those "change of heart" things.
#67
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Posted 13 February 2005 - 02:15 AM
Ganondorf kind in the Wind Waker? Where? He told Link that he commended him for his reckless courage. If Ganondorf was so kind then Link wouldn't have been in any danger, but just by those words there, he was telling Link that he was endangering his own life. He calls him a foolish child and tells him later that he could not be harmed by a weapon that does not have the power to repel evil. He said for Link to go back and have those pathetic fools to go reforge something better if he wanted to have even the slightest chance of combating him. Not only that but he was going to execute Link had Tetra not come in.
Ganondorf then calls Tetra a pathetic little sea rat and when his Triforce resonates he tells her not to act ignorant by trying to say that she is not Zelda because it would not grant her a safe haven from him. He choked Tetra unconscious to boot no less, and this guy was kind in the Wind Waker. I highly doubt that. He may have presented himself a bit more wiser than he was in the Ocarina of Time but he was by no means any less evil.
Which usually that is not what people go by. They just go by the ending of Ganondorf and say that his presence was more compassionate and endearing, however that is not the case. He still was vile and evil at the beginning of the game and he didn't change all of a sudden at the end either.
He made an outright stated that it was foolish of the King to seal Hyrule away, and then leave behind a bunch of pathetic creatures who would one day reawaken it and grant him back his power. What could these lowlifes possibly expect to achieve to someone such as his status. And in his eyes the Gods persecuted and destroyed them, but in reality they was protecting them from Ganondorf as it was the people's prayers that led to the flooding. He tried to decieve Link in believeing in a false accusation. Then he tells him that all this time that he has been brooding away in the seas above Hyrule that he has patiently waited and yearned for one who would be able to grant him the other piece of the Triforce. The Triforce of Courage and told him not to betray his expectations, for if he did then Ganondorf would have known that he was not the one.
So after tiring the kid down for a while with the huge Puppet Ganon monster he tells him, okay so you must be the next Hero of Legend, you must be the Hero of Time reborn. Okay boy come and face me now, and we shall see how the battle ends. That was basically what he was saying.
The next phrase he stated was the one people really think that "hey this guy has changed, he has turned over a new leaf, see how sincere he is". But I say where does it even suggest that. All Ganondorf was going on about was Hyrule was a more promising land to rule than the desert was, and in that sense he was right. If anyone had their choice to rule a kingdom or a desert most would pick the kingdom. It just had a nicer setting. Then he goes on about having Wisdom and that all he needed left was the Triforce of Courage.
Next he tells Link not to fear him, because he has no reason to kill him to get the Triforce of Courage because he was finally ready to end that which had binded him, the hero, and the princess for so long. He was ready to become the supreme overlord of Hyrule and no one was going to stand in his way.
When he doesn't get his wish the man goes flippin' insane, Zelda even says so. Wish or no wish he tells them that it is foolish to oppose him, and tells them that in a roundabout way that not even the Gods could save them from his wrath. But of course as we know that is not the case. The wish comes true, and Ganondorf realizing that you cannot oppose a wish granted by the gods laughs while being turned to stone. He knows he will be back for he is the Incarnation of Evil, Rauru has even stated so. So next time he will know that you can't defy a wish granted by the Triforce and next time he knows that it is futile to stop whatever desire he wants next. To him it was a learning experience. And for every defeat he gains against the hero brings him that much closer to understanding the mechanics behind the Triforce and what his goals should be later on down the road.
The only thing that is different between Ganondorf from the Wind Waker and the one from the Ocarina of Time, is that he is not as brash as the one from the Ocarina of Time and that he is more patient, wiser, and is gaining experience each time he has to face the chosen ones of destiny. He is more collective and cunning and that in itself is more dangerous than the quick tempered Ganondorf from the Ocarina of Time.
Ganondorf then calls Tetra a pathetic little sea rat and when his Triforce resonates he tells her not to act ignorant by trying to say that she is not Zelda because it would not grant her a safe haven from him. He choked Tetra unconscious to boot no less, and this guy was kind in the Wind Waker. I highly doubt that. He may have presented himself a bit more wiser than he was in the Ocarina of Time but he was by no means any less evil.
Which usually that is not what people go by. They just go by the ending of Ganondorf and say that his presence was more compassionate and endearing, however that is not the case. He still was vile and evil at the beginning of the game and he didn't change all of a sudden at the end either.
He made an outright stated that it was foolish of the King to seal Hyrule away, and then leave behind a bunch of pathetic creatures who would one day reawaken it and grant him back his power. What could these lowlifes possibly expect to achieve to someone such as his status. And in his eyes the Gods persecuted and destroyed them, but in reality they was protecting them from Ganondorf as it was the people's prayers that led to the flooding. He tried to decieve Link in believeing in a false accusation. Then he tells him that all this time that he has been brooding away in the seas above Hyrule that he has patiently waited and yearned for one who would be able to grant him the other piece of the Triforce. The Triforce of Courage and told him not to betray his expectations, for if he did then Ganondorf would have known that he was not the one.
So after tiring the kid down for a while with the huge Puppet Ganon monster he tells him, okay so you must be the next Hero of Legend, you must be the Hero of Time reborn. Okay boy come and face me now, and we shall see how the battle ends. That was basically what he was saying.
The next phrase he stated was the one people really think that "hey this guy has changed, he has turned over a new leaf, see how sincere he is". But I say where does it even suggest that. All Ganondorf was going on about was Hyrule was a more promising land to rule than the desert was, and in that sense he was right. If anyone had their choice to rule a kingdom or a desert most would pick the kingdom. It just had a nicer setting. Then he goes on about having Wisdom and that all he needed left was the Triforce of Courage.
Next he tells Link not to fear him, because he has no reason to kill him to get the Triforce of Courage because he was finally ready to end that which had binded him, the hero, and the princess for so long. He was ready to become the supreme overlord of Hyrule and no one was going to stand in his way.
When he doesn't get his wish the man goes flippin' insane, Zelda even says so. Wish or no wish he tells them that it is foolish to oppose him, and tells them that in a roundabout way that not even the Gods could save them from his wrath. But of course as we know that is not the case. The wish comes true, and Ganondorf realizing that you cannot oppose a wish granted by the gods laughs while being turned to stone. He knows he will be back for he is the Incarnation of Evil, Rauru has even stated so. So next time he will know that you can't defy a wish granted by the Triforce and next time he knows that it is futile to stop whatever desire he wants next. To him it was a learning experience. And for every defeat he gains against the hero brings him that much closer to understanding the mechanics behind the Triforce and what his goals should be later on down the road.
The only thing that is different between Ganondorf from the Wind Waker and the one from the Ocarina of Time, is that he is not as brash as the one from the Ocarina of Time and that he is more patient, wiser, and is gaining experience each time he has to face the chosen ones of destiny. He is more collective and cunning and that in itself is more dangerous than the quick tempered Ganondorf from the Ocarina of Time.
#68
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Posted 13 February 2005 - 02:31 AM
davogones, I understand that you personally believe in your heart the George W. Bush is evil, but, if he was evil he'd just send out a couple of nukes and declare himself ruler of the world...
The US of A is not evil, we're not perfect, but we're the best nation on the face of the earth...
-MK
The US of A is not evil, we're not perfect, but we're the best nation on the face of the earth...
-MK
#69
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Posted 13 February 2005 - 04:31 AM
davogones, I understand that you personally believe in your heart the George W. Bush is evil, but, if he was evil he'd just send out a couple of nukes and declare himself ruler of the world...
The US of A is not evil, we're not perfect, but we're the best nation on the face of the earth...
-MK
Tell me, what EXACTLY does that have to do with this topic?
*shakes head* makes no sense at all...
ANYWAY, on-topic again...
I like the more cunning Ganon(dorf) over the old one. It reminds me of the Wishmaster series of movies.
In Wishmaster 2, he was more cunning and able to get people to make a wish so he could have their souls than he was in the other 3 movies. Ganondorf has just reformed hismelf some to the point that he can better acquire what he seeks, which as well all know, is the Triforce.
Some good character development going on there.
#70
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Posted 13 February 2005 - 05:28 AM
I know that some mods would say "say it in the ____ forum" and I agree, davo however opened the dialogue and I felt I had to say "something..."
Believe me, I am aware of keeping stuff where it belongs, I just said what had to be said... I'm done with saying said statement...
Believe me, I am aware of keeping stuff where it belongs, I just said what had to be said... I'm done with saying said statement...
#71
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Posted 13 February 2005 - 10:59 AM
Ah, Demmies...so susceptable to left-wing propaganada.
Anyway, getting back on topic, I say Ganondorf probably would have ended up killing Link in the end anyway, even if he said he didn't. After all, this is the man who was able to convince an entire kingdom that he was a good guy when he was really planning to overthrow the monarchy. He's a liar, plain and simple.
Anyway, getting back on topic, I say Ganondorf probably would have ended up killing Link in the end anyway, even if he said he didn't. After all, this is the man who was able to convince an entire kingdom that he was a good guy when he was really planning to overthrow the monarchy. He's a liar, plain and simple.
#72
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Posted 13 February 2005 - 01:31 PM
Vaati's 2D character is exactly why he's the personification of evil. there's NOTHING ELSE to his character. Plus, he was a Minish, a member of a holy race, that fell into evil and became almost demonic, as Elzo calls his magic the Demon's Curse ^^ That's pretty much my idea of a Fall of Lucifer thang. I mean hell, there's nothing else to Lucifer's character except for angel gone bad=evil bastard.
#73
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Posted 13 February 2005 - 01:53 PM
Actually, a much more accurate way, is that he was a Jin, a neautral creature (Jin being the collective of angelic and demonic) who refused to bow down to adam, holding his pride. Yes it's the Islamic version, but his being punished by God in that story does relate to the 7 Deadly Sins.
Or... the other version is that on the 7th day, God rested, Lucifer thought he was a lazy fuck so attacked him and Gabriel went and protected his bossman. Neither are much like Lucifer at all.
Or... the other version is that on the 7th day, God rested, Lucifer thought he was a lazy fuck so attacked him and Gabriel went and protected his bossman. Neither are much like Lucifer at all.
#74
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Posted 13 February 2005 - 07:44 PM
Vaati's 2D character is exactly why he's the personification of evil. there's NOTHING ELSE to his character. Plus, he was a Minish, a member of a holy race, that fell into evil and became almost demonic, as Elzo calls his magic the Demon's Curse ^^ That's pretty much my idea of a Fall of Lucifer thang. I mean hell, there's nothing else to Lucifer's character except for angel gone bad=evil bastard.
Well the supposed fall of Lucifer still makes me think that he shouldn't be defined as the personification of pure evil. He was good, he went bad, and that was pretty much it, same thing with Vaati.
To me if you personify evil, you are just that, evil at its highest form. Satan would fall under that category, and not trying to get into a religious discussion but I don't believe Satan was or ever was Lucifer. The equivalent to that in Zelda terms to me would be Majora's Mask. It was evil and that was all it was. It was a personification of destruction and chaos, a sure bonafied purity of evil. It's character isn't even two dimensional, it is just one dimensional, it is evil and that is it.
Gabriel went and protected his bossman
The Archangel Michael is above Gabriel.
#75
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Posted 13 February 2005 - 07:48 PM
You don't think Satan is Lucifer? Okay..
The only bit of this convo i understand is the first 2 pages, lol
The only bit of this convo i understand is the first 2 pages, lol
#76
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Posted 13 February 2005 - 08:08 PM
You don't think Satan is Lucifer? Okay..
The only bit of this convo i understand is the first 2 pages, lol
It is a religious issue on my part and since I don't want to run down the reasons of why I don't even think there is such a being known as Lucifer, I will just leave you this link which will take you to my thoughts about Satan.
http://forums.legend...read.php?t=2365
In my next post I am going to try and defend good ol' Ganondorf.
#77
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Posted 13 February 2005 - 09:41 PM
Ah, Demmies...so susceptable to left-wing propaganada.
Anyway, getting back on topic, I say Ganondorf probably would have ended up killing Link in the end anyway, even if he said he didn't. After all, this is the man who was able to convince an entire kingdom that he was a good guy when he was really planning to overthrow the monarchy. He's a liar, plain and simple.
Why would he kill Link if Link wouldn't represent any problem if Ganondorf fulfilled his wish? We have seen that Ganondorf doesn't kill unless needed.
#78
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Posted 14 February 2005 - 02:15 AM
Well Ganondorf didn't have any reason to try and execute........gah....help......
Insolent louse! I, Darkseid, lord of Apokolips shall now take the stand and defend my client Ganondorf.
During the course of events that you mortals call the Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf established a prominent peace treaty amongst the other races of the world. Then the irascible king purged the land and conquered it, sending the gerudo race towards the desert, banishing them from the village of Kakariko and then spreading word of them being nothing but common thieves.
The gerudo king had to compensate for this loss and pledge his alligance towards the erratic king of Hyrule. His only option was to interrogate the three races of the kokiri, goron, and zora race, ordering them to give their prize possessions to him. This way he could aspire an omnipotent golden power that layed hidden in a sacred realm, but he would need another key as well held within the daughter of the royal family. It would take a great deal of asperity to reconcile with the other three races to hand over their spiritual stones, and since they would not do so by order then they were optioned themselves to be shackled into subservience.
As Ganondorf tried to will the citizens of this kingdom into the right direction of control, the idosyncratic princess of the royal family along with a boy simpleton decides to deviate a plot to attack and distort time itself. Their incomptent plan was foiled as Ganondorf entered the sacred realm and gained a portion of the power of the gods.
Ganondorf ascended to the throne of Hyrule and thus showed the kingdom the respect and loving mercy that the lice below his feet should be treated. As the gorons were cast to the dragon, and the zora's domain had been frozen, along with the forest children being sujected to a forest of monsters to aspire the fear and control the kingdom so needed. He had given them the perfect kingdom without flaws for seven years, unlike the king of the past. For without fear to supress it, the disgusting contagion of free will would spread like a plague, and the cowering slaves would become howling rebels, and his holy order would turn into anarchy.
However eight sprawling creatures beneath his rule had sinned. They had committed treason...sacrilege...and if they were to face him he would grant them suicide. For they should have surrendered to his rule and never been persuaded by the serpent of evil. They lost their fear in their king and that should never happen!
After giving the citizens of this kingdom a renowned, justified country filled with laws to fear by, they decide to expatriate their holy king into a prison within the sacred realm. These cretins made a prudent descion that would haunt their miserable bodies for the rest of their lives.
Since most of you would accomodate the events you mortals call the Wind Waker as an act of Ganondorf pertaining a moral an decent ambition for his people, then I think we have nothing more to consider in this topic.
From now on if you hear a tale of legends that echoes from the land of Hyrule, just remember that the illustrious king Ganondorf used his power to create order and discipline within the world of evil and corruption.
Insolent louse! I, Darkseid, lord of Apokolips shall now take the stand and defend my client Ganondorf.
During the course of events that you mortals call the Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf established a prominent peace treaty amongst the other races of the world. Then the irascible king purged the land and conquered it, sending the gerudo race towards the desert, banishing them from the village of Kakariko and then spreading word of them being nothing but common thieves.
The gerudo king had to compensate for this loss and pledge his alligance towards the erratic king of Hyrule. His only option was to interrogate the three races of the kokiri, goron, and zora race, ordering them to give their prize possessions to him. This way he could aspire an omnipotent golden power that layed hidden in a sacred realm, but he would need another key as well held within the daughter of the royal family. It would take a great deal of asperity to reconcile with the other three races to hand over their spiritual stones, and since they would not do so by order then they were optioned themselves to be shackled into subservience.
As Ganondorf tried to will the citizens of this kingdom into the right direction of control, the idosyncratic princess of the royal family along with a boy simpleton decides to deviate a plot to attack and distort time itself. Their incomptent plan was foiled as Ganondorf entered the sacred realm and gained a portion of the power of the gods.
Ganondorf ascended to the throne of Hyrule and thus showed the kingdom the respect and loving mercy that the lice below his feet should be treated. As the gorons were cast to the dragon, and the zora's domain had been frozen, along with the forest children being sujected to a forest of monsters to aspire the fear and control the kingdom so needed. He had given them the perfect kingdom without flaws for seven years, unlike the king of the past. For without fear to supress it, the disgusting contagion of free will would spread like a plague, and the cowering slaves would become howling rebels, and his holy order would turn into anarchy.
However eight sprawling creatures beneath his rule had sinned. They had committed treason...sacrilege...and if they were to face him he would grant them suicide. For they should have surrendered to his rule and never been persuaded by the serpent of evil. They lost their fear in their king and that should never happen!
After giving the citizens of this kingdom a renowned, justified country filled with laws to fear by, they decide to expatriate their holy king into a prison within the sacred realm. These cretins made a prudent descion that would haunt their miserable bodies for the rest of their lives.
Since most of you would accomodate the events you mortals call the Wind Waker as an act of Ganondorf pertaining a moral an decent ambition for his people, then I think we have nothing more to consider in this topic.
From now on if you hear a tale of legends that echoes from the land of Hyrule, just remember that the illustrious king Ganondorf used his power to create order and discipline within the world of evil and corruption.
#79
Darunia
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Posted 14 February 2005 - 02:44 AM
It is a religious issue on my part and since I don't want to run down the reasons of why I don't even think there is such a being known as Lucifer, I will just leave you this link which will take you to my thoughts about Satan.
http://forums.legend...read.php?t=2365
In my next post I am going to try and defend good ol' Ganondorf.
I agree with ya man; there is NO being named Lucifer. It was a simple reference to the Planet Venus in a parable in the Old Testament of the Bible.
As for this relating to Vaati being the true personification of evil, I don't hardly think so. Ganondorf would SO kick his ass in a battle that it's not even funny.
Granted, Vaati has part of the Light Force, but Ganondorf has ALL of the ToP. That means that Vaati would do well to get into Ganondorf's better graces before he was swiftly put under by him. Plus, if they were to combine their powers, I think they might be able to get farther.
#80
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Posted 14 February 2005 - 03:08 AM
Well not everyone would agree with that, but I am glad at least one person does.I agree with ya man; there is NO being named Lucifer. It was a simple reference to the Planet Venus in a parable in the Old Testament of the Bible.
As for this relating to Vaati being the true personification of evil, I don't hardly think so. Ganondorf would SO kick his ass in a battle that it's not even funny.
Yeah, even Hidermaro Fujibayashi said that Ganon would probably win!
#81
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Posted 14 February 2005 - 03:46 PM
Taking control over the world is not the only thing that is truly evil. I'm not saying that you think that its just...davogones, I understand that you personally believe in your heart the George W. Bush is evil, but, if he was evil he'd just send out a couple of nukes and declare himself ruler of the world...
The US of A is not evil, we're not perfect, but we're the best nation on the face of the earth...
-MK
Anyway, about Ganondorfs character it seems that he does change from time to time. The point has been made that he is evil, but I would like to go over some more points. (not knowing which side they'll go on.)
Ganondorf may have cared about his people at one time, but it seems when he tried to get the triforce he only cared about one person, himself. It was greed. He tried to get the triforce for his own benefit. He only cared about taking control of the world and making it bow down to him. He did not care about helping others, or helping the world once he got the triforce.
Yet is this truly evil? It depends on what you are looking at. It is natrual for everyone to think about themselves first. Everyone thinks about there own needs. It is natrual instincts for human to take care of themselves, and this is why it may not seem evil. However, one can also stop and think about others, and help them along the way. People have a chance to control their thoughts and actions and judge what is right.
Did we ever see Ganondorf helping someone without thinking of his own benefit? I certainly did not.
So selfishness is bad, but most would not call it evil.
Ganondorf is run over by greed, but as time passes it goes to far and he is commiting evil acts. He wants to be feared so he kills others. That is the worst act you can commit.
He knows what he is doing. He knows he is doing wrong, otherwise he would not call himself the kind of evil.
#82
MikePetersSucks
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Posted 14 February 2005 - 08:15 PM
As for this relating to Vaati being the true personification of evil, I don't hardly think so. Ganondorf would SO kick his ass in a battle that it's not even funny.
Since when did fighting strength have anything to do with evil? You'd probably agree that a worm who has no remorse in killing children and drinking their blood while their parents watch with their limbs cut off is more evil than a god robbing a bank successfully.
#83
Vazor
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Posted 14 February 2005 - 10:21 PM
Good point. After all, sometimes the most evil is the most weak. Just look at Hitler: one of the most vile men in history, yet he was so weak that he couldn't stand the thought of defeat and killed himself.Since when did fighting strength have anything to do with evil?
Vaati is definitely more evil than Ganondorf. It always seemed to me like Ganon was playing some sort of game that Link was just another pawn in his metaphoric chess game (unfortunately for him, the pawn checkmated the king). Vaati, though...it seems to me that he truly loves evil more than anything else, even power, which we know is what Ganon valued most.
In short: they're both ridiculously evil, but Vaati is moreso, but Ganon makes up for it in having such greater strength.
#84
Black Knight
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Posted 14 February 2005 - 11:14 PM
In degree of evilness, I guess that comparing him to Bush would be fairly accurate. Ganondorf brainwashed his people and controlled them, robbed a nation, killed innocent people, wanted world conquest etc. See the resemblance?
#85
Darunia
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Posted 15 February 2005 - 12:50 AM
In degree of evilness, I guess that comparing him to Bush would be fairly accurate. Ganondorf brainwashed his people and controlled them, robbed a nation, killed innocent people, wanted world conquest etc. See the resemblance?
Since when did this become an American-bashing topic? I fail to see the relevance here... Bush did not brainwash anyone that didn't want brainwashed. Now, as for the rest of that, well, I must admit that it looks that way, now doesn't it?
Back onto topic, yet again...
Vaati expresses nothing, in my opinion, that qualifies him for any kind of title as the king of evil. He is no more evil than any random dungeon boss. True, he got a bit over-zealous and went on a rampage, but so what? Ganon(dorf) has the whole King of Evil look to him, while Vaati just looks (and sounds) like a wussy. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens next.
#86
MK.
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Posted 15 February 2005 - 09:06 AM
Once again, I don't want this to turn into a Bush Bashing, real life political thing either, but since other people have already started going there I'll explain why they are...
Some people in their hearts 100% believe that the current President of the USA is evil. They believe all the propaganda and cannot be convinced otherwise...
So, they compare Ganondorf/evil to the leader of the free world! Talk about ironic
Here's why you're wrong:
Ganondorf brainwashed his people and controlled them, robbed a nation, killed innocent people, wanted world conquest etc. See the resemblance?
Brainwashed his people? The government does not brainwash us! Robbed a nation? We're liberating a nation that was controlled by an evil dictatorship! Killed innocent people? Perhaps, but that is the way of ALL war, there are always casualties, we did not go over there with the "intent" of "HEY LET'S GO KILL SOME INNOCENET PEOPLES!!!"
World conquest!? Get real! If we wanted world conquest we wouldn't waste our time with Iraq! We'd go invade something worth while, like, I dunno, Switzerland or something...
please let's not compare this debate with the current admininstration...
-MK
Some people in their hearts 100% believe that the current President of the USA is evil. They believe all the propaganda and cannot be convinced otherwise...
So, they compare Ganondorf/evil to the leader of the free world! Talk about ironic
Here's why you're wrong:
Ganondorf brainwashed his people and controlled them, robbed a nation, killed innocent people, wanted world conquest etc. See the resemblance?
Brainwashed his people? The government does not brainwash us! Robbed a nation? We're liberating a nation that was controlled by an evil dictatorship! Killed innocent people? Perhaps, but that is the way of ALL war, there are always casualties, we did not go over there with the "intent" of "HEY LET'S GO KILL SOME INNOCENET PEOPLES!!!"
World conquest!? Get real! If we wanted world conquest we wouldn't waste our time with Iraq! We'd go invade something worth while, like, I dunno, Switzerland or something...
please let's not compare this debate with the current admininstration...
-MK
#87
Guest_lord of illusion_*
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Posted 15 February 2005 - 11:10 AM
I agree that Vaati is better and more evil than ganomdorf, he is a true evil villian in my heart. any way it revials in WW that ganondorf wasn't selfish, he stole the triforce for the gerudos, they were dying.
#88
Kairu Hakubi
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Posted 15 February 2005 - 12:05 PM
hooray for topics that degenerate into controversial stuff about demonic nomenclature and presidential morality! makes-a me so happy. '_' see how happy? '_' <--
#89
MK.
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Posted 15 February 2005 - 01:39 PM
I agree that Vaati is better and more evil than ganomdorf, he is a true evil villian in my heart. any way it revials in WW that ganondorf wasn't selfish, he stole the triforce for the gerudos, they were dying.
NO! NO! NO!!!
Ganondorf is just trying to "justify" what he's done...
So you believe he cared about his people? Seven years in the future and his tribe was still living in the desert! He 100% forgot about them because he never cared about them in the first place!
If he was true to his words, he would have given them Hyrule Castle Town instead of just "destroying it"
-MK
#90
Vazor
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Posted 15 February 2005 - 03:19 PM
First off, I want to thank MK for doing something that I was too lazy to do.Once again, I don't want this to turn into a Bush Bashing, real life political thing either, but since other people have already started going there I'll explain why they are...
So Ganondorf wasn't selfish? Come on, people. He was evil and you know it. Ganon is the king of evil. You can't honestly sympathize with him.I agree that Vaati is better and more evil than ganomdorf, he is a true evil villian in my heart. any way it revials in WW that ganondorf wasn't selfish, he stole the triforce for the gerudos, they were dying.
