151 replies to this topic

[Husse]

That's all that's important.

I'm just saying, MJ, that the way it worked in Oracles is DIFFERENT from here, and you have to mix LOGIC with magic.

[SOAP]

Time travel isn't logical. Especially when it comes to Zelda. XP

And people remember things they never experienced all the time.

[Crazy Penguin]

Husse said

YES! Tri-Enforcer FINALLY sated the obvious! People, you WON'T KNOW if someone is traveling through time and playing with your memory! Unless you came with him, or have special powers, (It IS possible, not definite, but possible, that the Sages know,) you won't know! Think back to the future. Marty drastically changed events, but no one knows the difference.

LOGIC!

I dunno, I wouldn't rule it out. Back to the Future (and most time travel stories infact) is science based fiction, Zelda is fantasy based fiction and thus open to much wilder ideas with things like this.

[Zythe]

Wow, my TBE reference actually made sense to people.

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More importantly, how did he become a legend if he hadn't saved Hyrule yet?

Obviously, people actually NOTICED all the alterations in history, which means they not only had new memories of what happened, they actually remembered how thing originally were as well (kinda like how time travel worked in OoA!). Which means, that when Link was sent back to original time for the final time, thus closing the crossroads between the two time periods forever, it erased the dark future from happening but the people still remembered it! So... ONE TIMELINE!

You just solved the largest and most complex series of time paradoxes in all of Zelda. You didn't even know how amazing that one post was. I'm shocked.

[FDL]

Are you being sarcastic about MJ's post or not? It's hard to tell.

[Zythe]

Pefectly serious. No sarcasm whatsoever. And no, this post is not sarcastic. I find it hard to tell whether I am being sarcastic or not, too. And that last line wasn't sarcastic. Or the previous one. Or that one or this one. Sheesh. I'm so confused now.

[MikePetersSucks]

He brought up an excellent point though. If the time travel in Oracles involved everyone having their memories of both times, and having events of the past effect the future in perfect syncronization, AS THEY HAPPEN, then why can't it work the same in OOT? Travelling by body or mind should make little difference. (also, with those memories, Ganondorf could catch his mistakes and get an alternate plan, causing the LTTP backstory in the Child timeline)

[Zythe]

I think his whole point was that there were no multiple timelines. I like to call what he described as the "Cat House" theory, named after the episode of Charmed. Basically, if X minutes passes after you go back in time then after X minutes passes on the other side of the time, any changes will randomly appear there, as if time is rectifying itself. Everything inbetween those changes did happen, but were anomylous.

[Hero of Winds]

Zythe said

I think his whole point was that there were no multiple timelines. I like to call what he described as the "Cat House" theory, named after the episode of Charmed. Basically, if X minutes passes after you go back in time then after X minutes passes on the other side of the time, any changes will randomly appear there, as if time is rectifying itself. Everything inbetween those changes did happen, but were anomylous.

Are you talking about relative time? Such as, if you travel back in time five years, the future won't experience any change until five years later?

[FDL]

Zythe said

Pefectly serious. No sarcasm whatsoever. And no, this post is not sarcastic. I find it hard to tell whether I am being sarcastic or not, too. And that last line wasn't sarcastic. Or the previous one. Or that one or this one. Sheesh. I'm so confused now.

Oh, good. I agree with MJ 100% so I just wanted to know what you thought.

[Zythe]

Hero of Winds said

Are you talking about relative time? Such as, if you travel back in time five years, the future won't experience any change until five years later?

Yes. Exactly. Because there's a scale of time that these chronological mishaps take place on. The world instantly changes as if there's been an error and it has to catch up with itself.

Time itself is a flawed scientific principal, but as we're debating fantasy, it's all to do with accepting fantastical rules of science.

[Husse]

Since apparently you all think that nothing has to make sense in time travel AT ALL! (There are no paradoxes solved in that theory at all, you just made more, by the way.) Then I can't argue anything. When nothing makes sense in one faction, (people's brains transcending time,) nothing can make sense in every other faction. That's ridiculous. And don't say "magic." Magic has rules, especially in Zelda, and we're always told when it's used. I can't argue anything, apparently, because no logic whatsoever is being taken into account. Good grief.

[Zythe]

Actually it does. Things happen. There's nothing you can do to stop these random changes and eventually everything corrects itself. It does actually make sense, and well, yeah. :cool:

[SOAP]

Husse, how, praytell, is that you think Time Traveling in OoT is more like Back to the Future than how it worked in another Zelda game?

Since Time Travel is not a proven science it differs depending on the book, movie, game, and so on depending on who makes them. Time Travel may be one way in a book but then another in a totally different movie. Both can be logical but the theories behind them are just theories and are just as factual as the movies they're in. There's no universial laws written somewhere on how time travel works. Just a bunch of stuff writers made up in order to better suit the story. That said, if time travel works one way in a game, I think it's a pretty safe bet that it works the same in all the same way in other games in the series. After all, you wouldn't say time travel works one way in Back to the Future but it works more like Terminator in the Back to the Future 2, would you?

[Husse]

True, however, the things you are talking about in Zelda isn't science of time travel,it's science of the mind. The people remembering someting that never happened or whatever? I don't think so. And since you're so keen on comparing it to other Zelda, look at MM instead of Oracles. That's more accurate, and people don't have collective memories.

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Actually it does. Things happen. There's nothing you can do to stop these random changes and eventually everything corrects itself. It does actually make sense, and well, yeah.

Zythe, that was spam.

[Zythe]

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Zythe, that was spam.

Actually, it wasn't. I was referring to your post. Yeah. So, not spam. Yeesh.

[monique]

King daphnes isn't part of the royal family he somewhere stated that, he said that Tetra was the last one of the royal family. And that King daphnes was more a chosen king for Hyrule then really the father/son of Zelda
Atleast that's what I think, I mean Zelda's father already died a long time ago in Ocarina of time, and then this random dude shows up to be king x_x'' So I really believe that King Daphnes was chosen to be the next king of Hyrule when Zelda the first died. Because they needed a king, and they needed to protect the decendents of Zelda...

[SOAP]

Wouldn't it make more since if Zelda died leaving decendants, that one her decendants would become King not some random dude? You don't know. Maybe it's her son! Ever thought of that!?

[Husse]

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King daphnes isn't part of the royal family he somewhere stated that, he said that Tetra was the last one of the royal family. And that King daphnes was more a chosen king for Hyrule then really the father/son of Zelda

For one, he never said that...at all. For two, her father didn't die early in OoT, that past with Ganon was changed. And for three, she married and had other little kings, obviously. Since Daphnes can't yet die, apparently, Tetra is his *insert certain number of greats here* granddaughter, of course. Makes sense to me. Daphnes appears to be a quiet man of sorrow, it's a good thing he croaked at the end.

Can I say again that OoT Zelda had kids that were NOT Link's, or would that piss you beyond belief?

[MikePetersSucks]

He could be referring to the fact that he was DEAD, and Zelda was the only LIVING Royal Family member, since like, people don't listen to ghosts 20,000 leagues under the sea.

[SOAP]

I dunno if he was actually dead. Sure, he seemed pretty ghostly but how can a ghost make a wish if he had to actually touch it first. He may have been locked underwater for a long tieme, but so were Ganon's minions and they didn't seem very ghostly to me.

I really don't get why people think King Daphnes and Zeldaaren't related. Some random king isn't going to be "chosen" if the royal family's bloodline was still carried on. Also, when Ganon came, it was sudden and without warning. That's not enough time to make up some substitute King to divert attention from the real royals. Not too mention how pointless it would've been since Hyrule was going down anyways. Also, he had the other half of Zelda's Triforce of Wisdom. I don't care how good a person he may be, but some random guy isn't going to be trusted with something that vital. He had to be immediately related to OoT Zelda, either as a father, son, or even brother.

There are no quotes anywhere to suggest that Daphnes is not related to Zelda. Nor is there any reason to believe such a thing.

[Husse]

Yup. How else would such a pompous tomboy girl be so mezmerized by someone unless she flet there was something special about him. She looks pretty stoned in that cutscene.

I think, it being that it was the King's job to stay with Hyrule, he was either granted spirit life, or he died, and couldn't rest. We know he uses his spirit to inhabit the boat anyway. And he wasn't frozen in time. He roamed (able to move in time) between the surface world to watch his people and watch for Ganon, to his beloved frozen Hyrule, that he wished to rise again.

Oddly enough, I love King Hyrule. He says no more than Rauru, but he's MUCH deeper if you care to investigate his character.

WHO LOVES DAPHNES? WOO!

[SOAP]

I like the guy too. I just wish he didn't meddle so much at the end. Am I the only one that thinks TWW and Atlantis 2: Milo's Return should've swapped endings?

[Husse]

I don't know, never saw the sequel.

I saw the original just yesterday, and it SUCKED, so I probably never will.

[Zythe]

OT: What's Atlantis 2's ending since I'm too lazy to www.justfuckinggoogleit.com, msyelf.

[SOAP]

I liked the original.... I even downloaded the Atlantean font. Nintendo should've down something like that with the Wind Waker Hylian font.

Basically, in Atlantis 2, the old gang go back to Atlantis (God knows why) and get Milo to join them on a bunch of random adentures on the surface world. Actually it's three seperate stories that eventually lead up to Princess Kari getting the trident and she has to decide whether or not to bring Atlantis back to the surface. She decides what hell, "Let their be Light!" Her decision was too hasty. First off, ignoring the fact that this was still in the early 1900's, Atlantis rising again and the world be a better, brighter place after that and that's that... just doesn't sit right with me. I mean would Atlantis be recognized as it's own country? Wouldn't people try to take it over? And there's the fact that Atlantis had technology that even we're not ready ready for in the current millenium. Like the immortal-life- giving crystals for starters. The world just wasn't ready for Atlantis to come back. Especially not in the Steam Engine Age. :/

[Zythe]

Wow. I wouldn't want that for Zelda though. It was mature of it to kill Hyrule.

[Husse]

Yes, and it fit the moral. What's the moral, kids?

Sacrifice of the past. Living for the future. The King goes down with what he has preserved and forced upon Link and Zelda, and finally realizes that they can only save the world by living in the future, not in the past, giving up his lifelong dream of bringing back his kingdom for the kids. Everything about the game is young and fresh. there's your moral.

[Zythe]

Exactly, bury all attatchments to the past and move on!