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Wind Waker Hylian Opening Translation


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#61 Vazor

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 05:55 PM

If Zelda and the sages (all of whom would remember because of that time-translucent memory thing) told the King and he told the people, they'd believe him. Also, there is the little matter that Link has the ToC in the end of OoT, which'd be sure to convince pretty much everyone.

#62 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 06:14 PM

I think Link having the mark of the ToC on his hand is proof enough--as for Zelda/Sages remembering that future isn't really necessary and is just silly.

#63 FDL

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 06:14 PM

Woah now! I didn't say they made everyone remember! I think that's WAY too much fanfiction. I said that the SAGES had time-transcendent memories, and knew what happened in the timeline to be, and passed that down, not used their power to make everyone think that this little boy had done something incredible in an alternate timeline. No...that's a little extreme.



These games make little sense without fanfiction. People always used to say LTTP was the direct sequel to OoT and yet Ganon has the full Triforce. As you know, Ganon had only a third of the Triforce in OoT. Explain to me without fanfiction how that was supposed to work.

#64 Guest_TanakaBros06_*

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 07:43 PM

Also, the Sages using their power so everyone remembers Link makes sense because in the backstory of TWW it says the boy was known as the Hero of Time because he traveled in time but in the "Adult timeline" that multiple timeline theorists speak of it wouldn't seem like Link was traveling through time at all. In fact, Link is called the Hero of Time because HE CAN GO BACK AND FORTH THROUGH TIME! If he could just go forward through time he wouldn't be considered a time traveler, he'd be considered a late sleeper.


I'm confused. When have multiple timeline theorists ever said that Link doesn't time travel? He most certainly does. The split isn't until Zelda sends him back.

Also, the idea of OoT's events not taking place is bad enough, but Link "convincing" the whole world that it did is idiotic.

#65 Beno

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 08:41 PM

To me, a timeline split (while definately isn't perfect either, so don't attack me) sounds much less like fanfiction than making random guesses at who remembers what and about time loops. >>;

#66 Husse

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 10:42 PM

These games make little sense without fanfiction. People always used to say LTTP was the direct sequel to OoT and yet Ganon has the full Triforce. As you know, Ganon had only a third of the Triforce in OoT. Explain to me without fanfiction how that was supposed to work.


Well, obviously, those people were ignorant and wrong. A proper theory is one that fills in the holes without adding too much or going over the top, going where you don't have to. But the people afrorementioned didn't even fill in all the holes, very obvious ones, might I add.

#67 Guest_randomthoughts_*

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 04:24 AM

To me, a timeline split (while definately isn't perfect either, so don't attack me) sounds much less like fanfiction than making random guesses at who remembers what and about time loops. >>;


No, its exactly the same. It too, is a random guess.

#68 Kairu Hakubi

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 10:36 AM

link never really time travels though.. he just makes sure things happen at certain points in his life, and if he forgot to do stuff, he's allowed to go back and 'have already done it' as a kid... but he still travels at the same speed as everyone else, so it's hardly time travel.

#69 Husse

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 02:51 PM

Yeah, I think when your mind doesn't travel at the same speed as everyone else's, and you disappear when, um, "unconscious," that's time travel. Frozen Man theorem.

#70 FDL

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 06:33 PM

Well falling asleep isn't time traveling.

#71 Zythe

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 06:54 PM

Yeah, I think when your mind doesn't travel at the same speed as everyone else's, and you disappear when, um, "unconscious," that's time travel. Frozen Man theorem.


Yes. Practical "sleep" time travel. But I think Kairu meant "Back to the Future" or Oracle of Ages time travel.

I found a good comparison for OoT's time travel. The Butterfly Effect. Sort of.

#72 SOAP

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 07:07 PM

Actually that's a very good example. In the Butterfly effect, a kid goes trough life were gaps of his memories are left unaccounted for. When he gets older, he goes through some of his old diaries and jumps back into those moments of time and fills in the blanks which causes things to change in the future. In OoT, you have one big gap where Link in mental hiatus for seven years. After waking up and seeing all the evil that had happened, he jumps back to where the gap first began to make revisions which changes things in the future which helps him progress and what not. I have no idea what I just daid. XP

But the Butterfly Effect is a good example. I love/hated that movie so much. It made my sister cry. And she never cries. Ever.

#73 Guest_TanakaBros06_*

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 07:16 PM

He never makes any changes, but yeah, it's a lot like that movie.

Randomthoughts- It's not just a random guess, it was all sparked by an Aonuma quote.

#74 SOAP

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 07:22 PM

Never makes any changes? I suppose you never went back in time to plant a Magic Bean. I know, a miniscule change, but oh well. I know what I'm talking about! ... usually.

#75 Guest_TanakaBros06_*

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 07:28 PM

More of a gameplay element. When it comes to plot elements, like draining the well, it's clear that Link's actions in the past have already been accounted for.

#76 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 08:17 PM

Um....guys? He's talking about the MOVIE! Remember how after the blanks this wierd shit was happening that no one can explain? He went back in time to smooth out those paradoxes, but inturn made more. So you're ALL wrong on that note. I loved the part where He warped back right where he was about to become prison bitch XD *just got an idea for a Zelda Butterfly Effect parody* O.O >:D

#77 Husse

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 08:23 AM

Hm. Never makes any changes. In that case, he'd just end up going around and around and around and growing up and going back, etc, as we've seen MM, that didn't happen, but man, wouldn't that be hell?

#78 Vazor

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 09:18 AM

Or try this. What if Link wasn't really asleep during the seven years like Rauru said? What if (using a complex similar to that of the Butterfly Effect) when Link pulled out the sword, he didn't stay unconscious for the entire time until the future. Suppose all the times we see Link pull out and put back the sword are just him slipping back and forth into a statre of consciousness? He doesn't remember any of it because, like in the butterfly effect, he hadn't done it yet, although to the course of time, he had. When he puts back the sword as an adult, it shifts his consciousness back seven years, and when he pulls it out again, his mind shoots forward in time. Therefore, all the tings you do when returning to the child state in OoT have already been done by the adult time, but he still needs to go back and do them, or else they will never be done.
@_@
It makes sense if you think about it.

#79 FDL

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 01:29 PM

Oh, here's another thing I forgot to mention. The Owl says this after Link gets the Silver Gauntlets: A long time in this world is almost nothing to you, is it? How mysterious!
Even I thought that the tales of a boy who could travel back and forth through
time was merely a legend.


This is the same generation that Link seals Ganon away in. If the Sages told everyone what happened and nobody believed them but it became legend over time how was it already known about in Link's time?

#80 SOAP

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 02:19 PM

More importantly, how did he become a legend if he hadn't saved Hyrule yet?

Obviously, people actually NOTICED all the alterations in history, which means they not only had new memories of what happened, they actually remembered how thing originally were as well (kinda like how time travel worked in OoA!). Which means, that when Link was sent back to original time for the final time, thus closing the crossroads between the two time periods forever, it erased the dark future from happening but the people still remembered it! So... ONE TIMELINE!

#81 Husse

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 02:20 PM

Kaepora is a messenger. He hears/sees/knows about all that goes on, we know that. He heard it probably from a Sage or whatever. And yes, the hero in green is a rumor at the time, isn't it? But it's not big knowledge or else everyone would be kissing his feet in the game, obviously.

#82 FDL

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 04:45 PM

More importantly, how did he become a legend if he hadn't saved Hyrule yet?

Obviously, people actually NOTICED all the alterations in history, which means they not only had new memories of what happened, they actually remembered how thing originally were as well (kinda like how time travel worked in OoA!). Which means, that when Link was sent back to original time for the final time, thus closing the crossroads between the two time periods forever, it erased the dark future from happening but the people still remembered it! So... ONE TIMELINE!


Thanks for agreeing with me.

#83 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 05:35 PM

YAY for Butterfly Effect for solving a major plot issue XD with an Oracle reference to boot! SWEET

#84 Husse

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 06:35 PM

What? People in the past, "Butterfly" or not, DON'T remember what they "experienced" in the future!

Put that in EXTREME basic terms for me, and we'll see if it still makes sense. :/

#85 SOAP

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 06:41 PM

Kaepora is a messenger. He hears/sees/knows about all that goes on, we know that. He heard it probably from a Sage or whatever. And yes, the hero in green is a rumor at the time, isn't it? But it's not big knowledge or else everyone would be kissing his feet in the game, obviously.


Well maybe not common knowlege. People probably noticed things were changing infront of their eyes on a daily passes and probably noticed something funny was going on with their memories. And there probaly rumors that a boy clad in green was possibly behind it all but no one knew for sure. It probably sounded like something right out of a fairy tale, even for Hyruleans. It wasn't until Ganon was killed by a hero in green that people saw the connection. Then when Link finally returned to his own time, totally changing history for the final time, seven years later, it was as if Ganon had never taken over. But everyone still remembered the boy. It was then people realized what kind of power the boy actually had. Jumping back and forth through time as if walking through a door.

#86 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 06:49 PM

You can not remember anything that you didn't experience. (Unless, someone told you about it of course.) Had those people travelled back and forth through time--like Link--then they would remember the future they travelled to. As we know Link is is the only one who travelled through time in OOT, so he would remember that future since he experienced it. Everyone else, never experienced it.

#87 Husse

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 07:01 PM

YES! Tri-Enforcer FINALLY sated the obvious! People, you WON'T KNOW if someone is traveling through time and playing with your memory! Unless you came with him, or have special powers, (It IS possible, not definite, but possible, that the Sages know,) you won't know! Think back to the future. Marty drastically changed events, but no one knows the difference.

LOGIC!

#88 SOAP

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 07:23 PM

How do we know Time Travel isn't any different in the Zelda Universe? In OoA, people in the present witness a tower being erected in real time.... in the past! Why else would they be so shocked a tower suddenly being where no tower was before if it had already been built for hundreds of years? If Time Travel works with everyone's memories still intake in Labrynna, how do we know it doesn't work like that in OoT?

#89 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 07:28 PM

Heck, I doubt if the the Sages know would know of that future if Link didn't tell them. Maybe the Triforce mark on Link's hand at the end of the game was proof enough for--first the Royal Family--then everyone else to believe his story. After all in AoL it states that if someone with no evil, a righteous heart, and had accomplished brave deeds would bear the mark of the Triforce. What Link did in his journeys across time were brave deeds and also he has no evil within him.... Although Link is now in the past that still doesn't negate the brave deeds he did (since he did them and experienced them) nor change his heart. Thus, the Triforce recognizes what Link has done, since it has the essence of the Goddesses, who are all knowing and transcend time.

#90 SOAP

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 07:40 PM

Well regardless of how you look at it, Link was remembered... somehow.




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