I meant that Zelda sent Link to a period of time before the events of OoT happened.
I need to know this.....just for knowing purposes
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, Dec 12 2004 05:41 PM
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#62
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Posted 22 December 2004 - 11:10 PM
I meant that Zelda sent Link to a period of time before the events of OoT happened.
um...ya posted that in the wrong thread. Is it safe to assume that by a period of time before the events of OoT you mean that he was sent back to a period of time which was a short time before the game started? Or do you mean that he was sent back to a completely different era? That's where I'm getting confused.
EDIT: Wait a sec... I could have sworn that I saw this posted in another thread...um, just disregard that first sentence there...heh...
#63
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Posted 22 December 2004 - 11:17 PM
To a short time before.
#64
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Posted 22 December 2004 - 11:25 PM
Alrighty then, that's the way I think he was sent back as well. Though really, even though he still traveled back in time, there's no way that that act would put him down in the ages as the Hero of Time, in fact, it makes it so that the whole Time element dissapears in a single timeline.
#65
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Posted 22 December 2004 - 11:27 PM
Why? OoT's events happened anyway.
#66
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Posted 22 December 2004 - 11:34 PM
I'm still confused, but I'll do my best to see if I can root out the source of my problems. I'm guessing that you mean that OoT's events happen regardless, with or without the use of the magic of the Temple of Time right? My argument is that a split timeline in this case makes the most sense because this Link is in later legends (TWW backstory) referred to as the Hero of Time because of his travel. The events may happen again, but without the use of time travel, this makes the reference to the Hero of Time in TWW completely nonsense as there would no longer be a hero to reference.
I think I'm getting at what's bothering me, but I still have this nagging feeling that it's not what you mean. Maybe you could elaborate you theory for me.
I think I'm getting at what's bothering me, but I still have this nagging feeling that it's not what you mean. Maybe you could elaborate you theory for me.
#67
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Posted 22 December 2004 - 11:41 PM
I'm afraid not, the "Link from the future" goes to Termina and never returns, then, the "Link we see in the game" starts his quest and the events of OoT happen.
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Posted 22 December 2004 - 11:46 PM
I see, that makes sense...kinda. I mean, I can understand what you're explaining to me now, and it does work and make sense as far as single timelines go (in other words, I can't prove it wrong). I don't agree with it, but I understand it. Personally I think that the whole there are two Links existing at the same time thing stinks. I'd explain, but if you've been reading this thread then you probably already know most of my views and opinions on the matter.
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Posted 22 December 2004 - 11:51 PM
It's complicated isn't it. Or so it seems. In my mind melding the two timelines wouldn't be too difficult to explain, although it wouldn't really be a melding at all, simply a sharing of the same history to a certain point, a separation at a difference in history, and a melding at the point that history once again (if ever it does) becomes the same in both lines. But that's beside the point.
A lot of that seems really really apparent to me and doesn't do much to back up a single timeline theory, as for the rest... What I really want to know is where does the legend of the Hero of Time come from if in the end, as far as the people of Hyrule see, there is no time travel? Time travel in this case does mean his sleeping in a stasis of sorts until he reappears at the time which he is old enough to wield the sword of Evil's Bane. In the case of your theory, the entire legend of the Hero of Time as told in TWW is completely incorrect and has no roots in the people of Hyrule. This is one of the reasons I tend to stick with the split timeline theory, in my opinion it best explains inconsistencies.
EDIT: Also, Darkseid, your grammar seems to be slipping (either that or I never noticed before) I would suggest being more careful with it in the future, it's hard to take even the best of arguments seriously if they're written carelessly.
I apologize for my grammar because I am not always on a clear level of thinking at times, but most of the time I do believe that I spell quite well. Though honestly I don't think it was that quite hard to read, and pretty pointless to even bring up, because I have seen worse spelling errors and I haven't had too much trouble getting the basic concept of what others (that is if they have made spelling mistaskes) were trying to imply. Nevertheless let us get back to the subject at hand.
When Link unlocked the key to the Temple of Time his spirit was imprisoned until his body aged into that of a hero. For seven years Link layed in limbo until he was awakened to challenge Ganondorf and complete his destiny.
These are events that we well know happen in Ocarina of Time. Still though Link was able to cross upstream and downstream through time's river, and even the reincarnated owl sage Kaepora Gaebora was amazed by such a compelling attribute. Time is a nonspatial continuum that is measured in terms of events which succeed one another, such as past, present, and future. However what if a certain being was able to manipulate such powers, bend them to his rule, what occurences would happen? Well no one is for sure, since no one has ever been capable of time traveling, but here is my thoughts on the subject.
When Link went to the future or remained in limbo until he was able to become a hero, he defeated the evil Ganondorf, imprisoning him in the Sacred Realm, setting a preset events in time for the future. Zelda was able to send the young lad back to the past to so that he could recover the childhood he had once lost.
So by looking at this Link was able to go through time by using the Master Sword as a key to have him move upward and downward through the flow of time. What events Link would be able change in the past, he would also be gained in the future. Also looking at it when Link gained something from the future, he could use it in the past, for he was using the Master Sword as a basis to take his new findings with him, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he would be capable of using them as a child.
This is very similar to the things that happened in the Oracle of Ages. Link could do something in the past, and he could affect the future, and much like the Hero of Time, he did similar things which affected and changed the events of time but never once shifted a disturbance in the space/time contiuum to regulate a faction of two seperate realities. The only thing Link did was change the events of what had happened in the past/future, and with this, time would eventually catch up to itself, not spawn off into two seperate timelines, causing a conjuncture in which one reality has a set timeline and another reality has another timeline.
That is what I believe. I just think that Link was able to change the events in time, when he stopped time-traveling, then time would take its natural course. The people of Hyrule realize that Link was able to breach through the forces of time itself, and even erected a monument of the hero to remember his good doings. The seal that was on Ganondorf would not last forever, and he soon broke out. The people of Hyrule who had heard of the legends of the boy who traveled through time, believed that he could travel to their timeline, and change the events, much like he had changed the events in his timeline, but this did not happen, and Ganon nearly covered the world in darkness had it not been for the goddesses.
I just see things as taking a simple course, going along with just one singularity not comprising of some mish-mash of multiple timelines, spawned by different realities. The Zelda series has dealt with time on three occasions, and that would be Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and Oracle of Ages, and I might be a bit simplistic in my thinking, but I do not see something that would suggest that Link had created alternate timelines, nor do I actually think it was creators intentions then or now to assume that Link had created a multiple timeline. I am not saying that I know exactly what they are thinking, or that I am right, but I am saying that they have not even slightly hinted in my opinion of a multiple timeline.
#70
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Posted 22 December 2004 - 11:54 PM
Maybe this will interest you. I posted it before the hack and no one seemed to be able to prove it wrong.
In my opinion, time travel in OoT is very simple, first of all, I would like to point that Link travels exactly seven years back and forth. For example, if Link is in the past, at 3.33 pm, then travels to the future, when he arrives there, it will be 3.33 pm, exactly seven years later.
Now, I would like to mention that Link travels consciously (in mind.)
And, finally, I would like to point that the objects Link gets in the past, travel with him to the future (by means of the Sacred Realm, when Link's mind gets to the future the objects he collected appear with him when he emerges from the Sacred Realm.) I'm pretty sure that the pieces of hearth weren't intended to appear in the 'real story,' anyway a good way to explain it is that, since the same object cannot be in the same place, at the same time, 'the past' pieces disappear when Link travels to the past with them.
Link already did all the things you see him doing when traveling to the past. What happens is that he's only remembering them. When Link travels from the future to the past (consciously,) he takes the control of his past body (which is sleeping in the Sacred Realm,) that's why we always see him emerging from the Sacred Realm when he puts the Master Sword in the future. While his future mind is using his past body, his past mind is sleeping in the Sacred Realm of the future. When he first awoke from the Sacred Realm he didn't remember what he did, because even though, technically, he already did it, he remembers doing it later.
In my opinion, time travel in OoT is very simple, first of all, I would like to point that Link travels exactly seven years back and forth. For example, if Link is in the past, at 3.33 pm, then travels to the future, when he arrives there, it will be 3.33 pm, exactly seven years later.
Now, I would like to mention that Link travels consciously (in mind.)
And, finally, I would like to point that the objects Link gets in the past, travel with him to the future (by means of the Sacred Realm, when Link's mind gets to the future the objects he collected appear with him when he emerges from the Sacred Realm.) I'm pretty sure that the pieces of hearth weren't intended to appear in the 'real story,' anyway a good way to explain it is that, since the same object cannot be in the same place, at the same time, 'the past' pieces disappear when Link travels to the past with them.
Link already did all the things you see him doing when traveling to the past. What happens is that he's only remembering them. When Link travels from the future to the past (consciously,) he takes the control of his past body (which is sleeping in the Sacred Realm,) that's why we always see him emerging from the Sacred Realm when he puts the Master Sword in the future. While his future mind is using his past body, his past mind is sleeping in the Sacred Realm of the future. When he first awoke from the Sacred Realm he didn't remember what he did, because even though, technically, he already did it, he remembers doing it later.
#71
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 12:08 AM
Makes sense in a very confusing way. I think I remember something similar to this being posted some time in the past, it was probably the one that you posted. Anyway, that's a good theory if a bit confusing at some parts (or maybe I'm just tired, that may be what it is). heh, I have no reason to try and prove it wrong anyway, it must have taken some really nice use of your brain to figure that out.
#72
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 03:26 PM
This may sound stupid to some people and if the rumors of the "Bridle of Melancholy" are true I doubt this will happen but perhaps LOZ:2005 will have Link unifying the two timelines and having to battle Ganon once again. Then at the end he can leave Hyrule and continue his search for Navi.
This may not mean much, since there tends to be much focus on swords...then why not shields.... I was looking at the screens from the LoZ:2005 (whatever their gonna call it) and I noticed that Link is using the Hylian Shield! The same one he used in OOT. So it may have some conncection to OOT. I think this game could make or break the split timeline theory. Or it could be just another Zelda game that throws us off even further.
Also, I noticed something about the MC, TWW, and the FS games--they all use the same red/gold shield. Hmmmm....
#73
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 06:57 PM
I just think the way things turned out was influenced by the way they were supposed to be, n stuff.. Time travel was just an elaborate method to undo the big mistake, G-dorf getting the ToP.. and while they didn't actually undo that particular item, everything else was changed back to how it would have played out without him, so as to give people the 7 years as they're meant to be.. that's how i saw it..
if nothing else, other myths have stuff like this.. people get ahold of the gods' relic so they use their magic to cheat and just revert things.
if nothing else, other myths have stuff like this.. people get ahold of the gods' relic so they use their magic to cheat and just revert things.
#74
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 07:53 PM
This may not mean much, since there tends to be much focus on swords...then why not shields.... I was looking at the screens from the LoZ:2005 (whatever their gonna call it) and I noticed that Link is using the Hylian Shield! The same one he used in OOT. So it may have some conncection to OOT. I think this game could make or break the split timeline theory. Or it could be just another Zelda game that throws us off even further.
Also, I noticed something about the MC, TWW, and the FS games--they all use the same red/gold shield. Hmmmm....
I'm thinking that's because of the artstyle. The designers feel that an OoT look warrants the main OoT shield, and the same goes for TWW design. FS clearly has nothing to do with the King of Red Lions, who is depicted on the Hero of Winds' shield.
#75
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Posted 23 December 2004 - 08:24 PM
I just think the way things turned out was influenced by the way they were supposed to be, n stuff.. Time travel was just an elaborate method to undo the big mistake, G-dorf getting the ToP.. and while they didn't actually undo that particular item, everything else was changed back to how it would have played out without him, so as to give people the 7 years as they're meant to be.. that's how i saw it..
if nothing else, other myths have stuff like this.. people get ahold of the gods' relic so they use their magic to cheat and just revert things.
That's what ZELDA thoguht, but did it really happen? All the games seem to point that it didn't, even using a multiple timeline theory.
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Posted 24 December 2004 - 08:36 PM
I'm thinking that's because of the artstyle. The designers feel that an OoT look warrants the main OoT shield, and the same goes for TWW design. FS clearly has nothing to do with the King of Red Lions, who is depicted on the Hero of Winds' shield.
Maybe that is the case...just a thought.
That is not the King of Red Lions on the Hero of Wind's red/gold shield that he gets from his grandmother. It's a bird like creature, similar to the one on the Hylian shield. All you gotta do is look at the home page to Zelda Legends and tell. It's looks the same as the shields from the FS series/MC.
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Posted 26 December 2004 - 02:38 AM
1 timeline, 5 Links, 5 Zeldas. 1 vaati, 1 aghanim, 1 Ganon/Gannondorf, 1 twinrova, 1 onox, 1 verona, 1 dethl
#78
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Posted 26 December 2004 - 02:40 AM
1 timeline, 5 Links, 5 Zeldas. 1 vaati, 1 aghanim, 1 Ganon/Gannondorf, 1 twinrova, 1 onox, 1 verona, 1 dethl
And this is proved how?
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Posted 26 December 2004 - 03:01 AM
already posted that with my timeline theory
#80
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Posted 30 December 2004 - 04:57 PM
This is very similar to the things that happened in the Oracle of Ages. Link could do something in the past, and he could affect the future, and much like the Hero of Time, he did similar things which affected and changed the events of time but never once shifted a disturbance in the space/time contiuum to regulate a faction of two seperate realities. The only thing Link did was change the events of what had happened in the past/future, and with this, time would eventually catch up to itself, not spawn off into two seperate timelines, causing a conjuncture in which one reality has a set timeline and another reality has another timeline.
That is what I believe. I just think that Link was able to change the events in time, when he stopped time-traveling, then time would take its natural course. The people of Hyrule realize that Link was able to breach through the forces of time itself, and even erected a monument of the hero to remember his good doings. The seal that was on Ganondorf would not last forever, and he soon broke out. The people of Hyrule who had heard of the legends of the boy who traveled through time, believed that he could travel to their timeline, and change the events, much like he had changed the events in his timeline, but this did not happen, and Ganon nearly covered the world in darkness had it not been for the goddesses.
I just see things as taking a simple course, going along with just one singularity not comprising of some mish-mash of multiple timelines, spawned by different realities. The Zelda series has dealt with time on three occasions, and that would be Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and Oracle of Ages, and I might be a bit simplistic in my thinking, but I do not see something that would suggest that Link had created alternate timelines, nor do I actually think it was creators intentions then or now to assume that Link had created a multiple timeline. I am not saying that I know exactly what they are thinking, or that I am right, but I am saying that they have not even slightly hinted in my opinion of a multiple timeline.
First off, in OoT, nothing that Link does in the past affects the future, so that first paragraph is moot. The whole time traveling thing isn't what I'm arguing, I actually believe that the whole traveling back and forth happened in much the same fashion as you have stated. Also, off topic, but since you commented... I'm concerned with your grammar, not with your spelling, they're two completely different entities.
As far as on topic goes, I think you're trying to sound much more intelligent than you actually are and making your argument much more complicated than it actually is in an attempt to confuse me off topic...and it's working. I'm a simple person Darkseid, if you would please explain what exactly it is that you're trying to get across to me in laymen's terms I would be quite appreciative. Anyway, I'll attempt to understand you. OoA time travel is quite different than OoT, not even you can argue that it's the same. MM time travel is also different, with Link being able to only travel backwards in time to the same point every time. Not forward. Anyway, I'm off for now, I'll attempt another response as time allows. Until then.
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Posted 03 January 2005 - 01:55 AM
First off, in OoT, nothing that Link does in the past affects the future, so that first paragraph is moot. The whole time traveling thing isn't what I'm arguing, I actually believe that the whole traveling back and forth happened in much the same fashion as you have stated. Also, off topic, but since you commented... I'm concerned with your grammar, not with your spelling, they're two completely different entities.
As far as on topic goes, I think you're trying to sound much more intelligent than you actually are and making your argument much more complicated than it actually is in an attempt to confuse me off topic...and it's working. I'm a simple person Darkseid, if you would please explain what exactly it is that you're trying to get across to me in laymen's terms I would be quite appreciative. Anyway, I'll attempt to understand you. OoA time travel is quite different than OoT, not even you can argue that it's the same. MM time travel is also different, with Link being able to only travel backwards in time to the same point every time. Not forward. Anyway, I'm off for now, I'll attempt another response as time allows. Until then.
Oh I am far from intelligent, infact most people would consider me a dumbass, but hey that is off topic. Still you are right about OoA and MM's time traveling being different, but I just mentioned them because they dealt with time.
On topic though I really don't know how to get across what I am trying to say, but I think I will go through this as simple as I can.
I see Ocarina of Time going through a set course. Any events that happened in the childhood era and the adulthood era are all still revelvant to each other. They all connect in a straight direction leading to the Wind Waker. In order for two timelines to exist I believe that there would have to be two seperate realities. One reality would consist of one of the events from the childhood era, and the other reality would consist of the adulthood era, thus spawning different histories for each reality. That is the way I understand the multiple timeline theory, but I don't think that is what happened. I just can't see the Ocarina of Time having such an impact that it would split time into two factions.
I hope this is more understandable. I really don't know how else to explain what it is that I am trying to say without going into a bunch of sci-fi mumbo jumbo.
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Posted 07 January 2005 - 01:22 PM
Okay simple enough, I at least see what it is that you're trying to get across to me. My big problem with it however is the fact that Zelda sent him back in time at the end of OoT. Also, you see events happening at the end in both time periods. If Link was sent back in time to relive his childhood as it was supposed to be, and if Ganon was indeed sealed in the future and the past as you say, then how would the future time period even exist any longer? Perhaps what I'm trying to say is also a bit complicated, and if you don't understand it please feel free to ask for a simpler explanation. In a nutshell, if Ganon never comes into power in the past then he never becomes a threat, he never rules for the time period that Link sleeps, everything changes, the people in the future would have no reason to be celebrating because nothing ever went wrong.
egh...I think I'm rambling once again, so I'll quit for now. Later.
egh...I think I'm rambling once again, so I'll quit for now. Later.
#83
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Posted 09 January 2005 - 05:04 AM
Okay simple enough, I at least see what it is that you're trying to get across to me. My big problem with it however is the fact that Zelda sent him back in time at the end of OoT. Also, you see events happening at the end in both time periods. If Link was sent back in time to relive his childhood as it was supposed to be, and if Ganon was indeed sealed in the future and the past as you say, then how would the future time period even exist any longer? Perhaps what I'm trying to say is also a bit complicated, and if you don't understand it please feel free to ask for a simpler explanation. In a nutshell, if Ganon never comes into power in the past then he never becomes a threat, he never rules for the time period that Link sleeps, everything changes, the people in the future would have no reason to be celebrating because nothing ever went wrong.
egh...I think I'm rambling once again, so I'll quit for now. Later.
Okay scratch the Ganondorf getting sealed in the past deal. That was a bad suggestion on my part.
Put it this way I think that Link merely altered the events of time. When he did he set a basis on how time would flow. The ending in the future that we see is the set time event that will happen when Link returns to from Termina and fights Ganon seven years later on down the road.
So this is the way I think it should go now.
Link is a child, he defeats Queen Gohma, King Dodongo, and Barinade to get the three spiritual stones needed to open the Door of Time. The prophetic dream that Zelda and Link had happens, and Ganondorf appears, and Zelda throws the Ocarina of Time in the moat. Link grabs the Ocarina of Time and plays the Song of Time to open the Door of Time. Navi is all estatic as she sees the Legendary Blade of Evil's Bane, the Master Sword. Link grabs it and is thrown into a suspended field until he is worthy to weild the mighty weapon that is the Master Sword.
So seven years have passed and Link goes and defeats Phantom Ganon, Volvagia, Morpha, and somewhere during these events he had to travel back in time to play the Song of Storms to the Windmill Man (who says that a ten year old boy played the song, so Link must be 10 as a child and 17 as an adult according to this) and he then gets the Lens of Truth at the bottom of the well. After this he completes the Shadow Temple in defeating Bongo Bongo and heads for Gerudo territory. Link gains access to the gerudo grounds and embarks on taking on the Spirit Temple, but realizes that he must be a child to do so, so he goes back again. He is confronted by Nabooru who orders him to get the Silver Gauntlets in which he does but the Gerudo witches Koume and Kotake use their black magic to suck her under the desert sands, and in the future will become a mind-controlled Ironknuckle. So Link goes back to the future to save her since he now has the gauntlets to access the second part of the temple. Link does so and defeats Twinrova the surrogate mothers of Ganondorf. Kaepora Gaebora is amazed at how the boy is able to move freely between timelines and thought it never to be possible, and so it seems evident at this point that no split has occured while he is moving up and downstream through time's river. Link goes to the Temple of Time where he meets up with Shiek and she reveals herself as Zelda. Ganondorf captures Zelda and Link goes to Ganon's Tower to rescue her. Link, Zelda, and the Six Sages defeat Ganondorf and imprison him in the tainted Sacred Realm.
Now Zelda feels sorry for not realizing that she had taken away Link's childhood so unkowingly. She may be able to have prophetic dreams but she couldn't predict the future or its outcome. So she bids Link a sad farewell and he is returned to his childhood. Then we see the celebration of Ganondorf's defeat in the future part of the timeline. This has set up a fixed time in my eyes that will later have them once again celebrating in the future because of Ganondorf's defeat. Link leaves the Temple of Time, and Navi leaves his side, and Link visits Zelda and that is the end of the game.
So we move on to Majora's Mask. Link tries to look for his invaluable friend in which he gets his horse stolen from him, and he is turned into a Deku Scrub by the possessed Skull Kid. Link realizes the situation of impending doom that is breaching Termina and is willing to help. So he plays with time again and defeats Odolwa, Goht, Gyorg, and Twinmold. With them defeated Link uses the Ocarina of Time and plays the Oath to Order which summons the Four Giants who stop the moon from collapsing on the third day. Link defeats Majora's Mask and we see everyone celebrating as Link heads back home.
Now back in Hyrule time has its set progress in motion, as Ganondorf steals the Triforce of Power and Link once again has to go through his quest but this time he has to wait seven long years before he can claim the Master Sword. He knows this because of what had happened earlier. So Link waits till he becomes worthy and defeats Ganondorf once again.
Hyrule is saved and the Hyrulians build a monumental statue of the Hero of Time. His saga is recorded and soon becomes a legend to the generations later on down the road. Ganondorf who doesn't back out on his promise frees himself from the Sacred Realm and enacts vengance on the descendants of Link, Zelda, the Six Sages, and everyone else in Hyrule. The Hyrulians figured there was no reason to fear because the Hero who traveled through time would save them, but he did not, because his time traveling only dealt with a seven year peroid. After seeing that the Hero did not show up the residents of Hyrule pleaded to the Goddesses for help. So the ancient kingdom would not be destroyed a time barrier was placed within the Master Sword, which would keep Hyrule frozen in time until the blade was released from its pedestal. The world was soon flooded and the citizens moved to higher ground, or basically on the islands floating around on the Great Sea.
These legends were passed down and the events of Link defeating Ganondorf (the end of the Ocarina of Time) was remembered as was tales of Link embarking on a quest of his own (Majora's Mask a childhood era). If both the Adult and Childhood legends were remembered in the Legend of the Wind Waker, then doesn't it sound feasible that they all connect in one straight timeline.
Still it is just how I feel about the matter. Though I might also be a bit stubborn as well considering that I think that a split-timeline would dilute the legend and history of Zelda. I try to stay as open-minded as I can and should be open to all suggestions as long as they go by the games that is (meaning you couldn't have say OoS right before TWW and then have OoA follow after).
I have a pretty good feeling that I understand how your timeline works, but just incase I may have the wrong impression feel free to elaborate on it the best you can.
#84
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Posted 09 January 2005 - 01:21 PM
Oh my god, Darkseid! That was EXCELLENT! that's the best explaination of the OOT ending I have EVER seen, but there's one thing...
This is the only problem I've seen. I doubt Link would just sit around idly while people are being slaughtered. He's obviously the type of person who would sacrifice time consistency to save someone else, it's not like he's a Sage or anything. I find it more plausible that it took him seven years to get back to Hyrule from Termina. Either the Goddesses kept the gateway closed in order to keep time balanced out, or he did get home, but he got distracted by 7 years worth of saving other countries and stuff. But I have no doubt that once Link got back home, the first thing he did was get the Master Sword.
Now back in Hyrule time has its set progress in motion, as Ganondorf steals the Triforce of Power and Link once again has to go through his quest but this time he has to wait seven long years before he can claim the Master Sword. He knows this because of what had happened earlier. So Link waits till he becomes worthy and defeats Ganondorf once again.
This is the only problem I've seen. I doubt Link would just sit around idly while people are being slaughtered. He's obviously the type of person who would sacrifice time consistency to save someone else, it's not like he's a Sage or anything. I find it more plausible that it took him seven years to get back to Hyrule from Termina. Either the Goddesses kept the gateway closed in order to keep time balanced out, or he did get home, but he got distracted by 7 years worth of saving other countries and stuff. But I have no doubt that once Link got back home, the first thing he did was get the Master Sword.
#85
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Posted 09 January 2005 - 08:11 PM
That whats I always thought the end of OOT was, a restarting of time to make the future a better place since it was shown Link could defeat Ganondorf. So it makes sense that he could again, maybe even before he comes to power.
#86
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Posted 09 January 2005 - 11:49 PM
Oh my god, Darkseid! That was EXCELLENT! that's the best explaination of the OOT ending I have EVER seen, but there's one thing...
This is the only problem I've seen. I doubt Link would just sit around idly while people are being slaughtered. He's obviously the type of person who would sacrifice time consistency to save someone else, it's not like he's a Sage or anything. I find it more plausible that it took him seven years to get back to Hyrule from Termina. Either the Goddesses kept the gateway closed in order to keep time balanced out, or he did get home, but he got distracted by 7 years worth of saving other countries and stuff. But I have no doubt that once Link got back home, the first thing he did was get the Master Sword.
Well then just edit out that part and let's say he waited in Termina for seven years or whatever. The thing is suggestions like this can be revised and re-thought of but it will never come to a clear decisive answer as to what really happens. What does happen though is that there is evidence of all timelines connecting together to the Wind Waker as the Hero of Winds has stated many times. The arguement seems moot as it seems as if the creators done made their decision on how the story should go, but others are trying to connect it to A link to the Past. Ocarina of Time may have originally been about the Imprisoning War, but later down the years Miyamoto abandoned the idea, and it seems pretty clear that Ocarina of Time is not the Imprisoning War so there is no reason in trying to connect OoT to LttP. What does connect with the Ocarina of Time is the Wind Waker as evidence in the game.
#87
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Posted 12 January 2005 - 09:28 PM
Alright Darkseid, here goes. There's still a lot of stuff in your version that doesn't make sense to me, most prominently the fact that the people in TWW celebrate the Hero of Time, though in your version the people never really knew of a hero who traveled through time, only of one who didn't show up until it was too late, there's no reason in there for them to think that he would travel through time to save them. Also, if Link has to once again complete the quest only this time without the use of time travel, how would he accomplish the things that he must do as a child in between traveling? For example, the windmill, the Lense, and the gauntlets? Oh well.
As far as my timeline goes, just so that it's known what I think:
Ocarina of Time happens exactly as you see it in the game, I don't think that I need to explain this, we all know how it goes, and if you don't just look at Darkseid's explanation up to the point that Link is sent back in time for the final time. At that point substitute the rest of what I have to say.
In the adult time period Ganon has been sealed by Link and the sages, Princess Zelda see's that what she has done to Link is unfair and so sends him back in time to actually live through that seven years that he missed out on. Because Link is the only one that is actually sent back, and the only one to experience time travel, there is a split. The adult period becomes it's own timeline, separate from the one in which Link exists, this explains the absense of a hero later on, but I'll wait until then to explain. Once sent back, Link goes off to do whatever for an unspecified amount of time, because we see him in Hyrule Castle we can suppose that Ganondorf's attack was repelled by the Hyrulean soldiers and that Ganon must find another way to get the triforce.
After these events Link goes off on his quest to find whoever it is that he's looking for and stumbles upon Termina. Those events happen exactly as depicted in the game, MM, and have no need of explanation. Afterwards we do not know what happened to him, his story is over as far as we know. Perhaps he made it back, and perhaps not, it doesn't really matter. Meanwhile, in Hyrule a craze to find the Tri-Force begins, it makes sense to say that Ganondorf may have stirred this up, but I don't have anything to prove it and I doubt there ever will be any, so it's just speculation. In the chaos Ganondorf stumbles upon an entrance to the Sacred Realm and claims the Triforce for himself with it's power he sends Hyrule into darkness. The King, with his seven sages and the Knights of Hyrule, fight off Ganon, while a hero who can wield the Master Sword is searched for, but none is found (note that the legend of the Hero of Time doesn't exist here, otherwise it's very similar to TWW except Ganon is indeed sealed here). In the end Ganon is sealed, this event came to be known as the Imprisoning War.
Back in the Adult Timeline things played out a little differently. Perhaps because of the legend of a hero who would magically appear to vanquish evil the people didn't take the same actions as in the other timeline. When Ganon broke free from his seal he wreaked havoc in Hyrule, as his vow to take revenge on those who had sealed him had foretold. In this timeline the people, who were too reliant on the legend of the Hero of Time, didn't stand a chance against Ganon, and simply waited and prayed for a savior. In the end there was none, and the Goddesses caused a great flood. The people fled to high ground as the land of Hyrule lay frozen beneath the waves. Waiting for another who could wield the Sword of Evil's Bane. Now, the legend says that the Hero left Hyrule, and yes, the picture shows him on a horse, though this isn't sufficient to say that he actually rode away on a horse. All the people knew was that he dissapeared and didn't return, it makes sense that he would have left in the same way that he appeared, suddenly and unexpectedly, and right in the middle of things.
Let's see...what else is there to explain... the above is basically what I believe happened, though I can't say for certain that I told everything there is to say. TWW continues on into nothing so far, though I'm sure that upcoming games will shed light on what comes afterwards. I know it's a bit haphazard, but hopefully it makes some sense, I'm working on a picture do illustrate my OoT timeline. Also, Darkseid, I'd be very interested in hearing your entire timeline some day, I love seeing how everybody puts the series together, and I'm sure that yours would be very well thought out.
As far as my timeline goes, just so that it's known what I think:
Ocarina of Time happens exactly as you see it in the game, I don't think that I need to explain this, we all know how it goes, and if you don't just look at Darkseid's explanation up to the point that Link is sent back in time for the final time. At that point substitute the rest of what I have to say.
In the adult time period Ganon has been sealed by Link and the sages, Princess Zelda see's that what she has done to Link is unfair and so sends him back in time to actually live through that seven years that he missed out on. Because Link is the only one that is actually sent back, and the only one to experience time travel, there is a split. The adult period becomes it's own timeline, separate from the one in which Link exists, this explains the absense of a hero later on, but I'll wait until then to explain. Once sent back, Link goes off to do whatever for an unspecified amount of time, because we see him in Hyrule Castle we can suppose that Ganondorf's attack was repelled by the Hyrulean soldiers and that Ganon must find another way to get the triforce.
After these events Link goes off on his quest to find whoever it is that he's looking for and stumbles upon Termina. Those events happen exactly as depicted in the game, MM, and have no need of explanation. Afterwards we do not know what happened to him, his story is over as far as we know. Perhaps he made it back, and perhaps not, it doesn't really matter. Meanwhile, in Hyrule a craze to find the Tri-Force begins, it makes sense to say that Ganondorf may have stirred this up, but I don't have anything to prove it and I doubt there ever will be any, so it's just speculation. In the chaos Ganondorf stumbles upon an entrance to the Sacred Realm and claims the Triforce for himself with it's power he sends Hyrule into darkness. The King, with his seven sages and the Knights of Hyrule, fight off Ganon, while a hero who can wield the Master Sword is searched for, but none is found (note that the legend of the Hero of Time doesn't exist here, otherwise it's very similar to TWW except Ganon is indeed sealed here). In the end Ganon is sealed, this event came to be known as the Imprisoning War.
Back in the Adult Timeline things played out a little differently. Perhaps because of the legend of a hero who would magically appear to vanquish evil the people didn't take the same actions as in the other timeline. When Ganon broke free from his seal he wreaked havoc in Hyrule, as his vow to take revenge on those who had sealed him had foretold. In this timeline the people, who were too reliant on the legend of the Hero of Time, didn't stand a chance against Ganon, and simply waited and prayed for a savior. In the end there was none, and the Goddesses caused a great flood. The people fled to high ground as the land of Hyrule lay frozen beneath the waves. Waiting for another who could wield the Sword of Evil's Bane. Now, the legend says that the Hero left Hyrule, and yes, the picture shows him on a horse, though this isn't sufficient to say that he actually rode away on a horse. All the people knew was that he dissapeared and didn't return, it makes sense that he would have left in the same way that he appeared, suddenly and unexpectedly, and right in the middle of things.
Let's see...what else is there to explain... the above is basically what I believe happened, though I can't say for certain that I told everything there is to say. TWW continues on into nothing so far, though I'm sure that upcoming games will shed light on what comes afterwards. I know it's a bit haphazard, but hopefully it makes some sense, I'm working on a picture do illustrate my OoT timeline. Also, Darkseid, I'd be very interested in hearing your entire timeline some day, I love seeing how everybody puts the series together, and I'm sure that yours would be very well thought out.
#88
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Posted 13 January 2005 - 12:52 AM
Well BlackHawkA100 I am tired of trying to debate if there is or is not a split-timeline, so I won't go back into that. Infact I accept whatever you think the timeline should go, for it is your theory and you can believe however you want on how the story goes. Still though I need to define some things that you might have thought wrong about the way I think things went in the Ocarina of Time. Note I am not asking for you to believe it for the gospel, to accept it, or any of that other crap, just backing more up of what I had to say. I will comment later on your timeline. Mostly just questions, because I am not going to go around and say "well that can't happen" and "oh that sounds like crap" because I must actually commend you in stating exactly what it is you feel about the split-timeline deal. I also believe you are the only one to really explain on how the split-timeline truly works out. But like I said I will get back to you on this later and explain some stuff in my earlier post.
I stated earlier that:
Hyrule is saved and the Hyrulians build a monumental statue of the Hero of Time. His saga is recorded and soon becomes a legend to the generations later on down the road.
These generations I speak of are the generations after the Legend of the Ocarina of Time. These are the generations that are before the Wind Waker. This generation can be found in the backstory of the Wind Waker.
Backstory to the Wind Waker:
This boy who traveled through time to save the land, was known as the Hero of Time. The boy's tale was passed down through generations until it became legend.
So there was generations later after the events of the Ocarina of Time. During this time Ganondorf freed himself out of his prison. Listen to my words I had posted earlier.
Ganondorf who doesn't back out on his promise frees himself from the Sacred Realm and enacts vengance on the descendants of Link, Zelda, the Six Sages, and everyone else in Hyrule.
Now let us look and the backstory of the Wind Waker to get what I was saying here.
But then...day came when a fell wind began to blow across the kingdom. The great evil that all had thought had been forever sealed away by the hero once again crept forth from the depths of the earth, eager to resume its dark designs.
Okay next I stated this:
The Hyrulians figured there was no reason to fear because the Hero who traveled through time would save them, but he did not, because his time traveling only dealt with a seven year peroid. After seeing that the Hero did not show up the residents of Hyrule pleaded to the Goddesses for help. So the ancient kingdom would not be destroyed a time barrier was placed within the Master Sword, which would keep Hyrule frozen in time until the blade was released from its pedestal. The world was soon flooded and the citizens moved to higher ground, or basically on the islands floating around on the Great Sea.
The backstory states this:
The people believed that the Hero of Time would again come to save them...but the hero did not appear. Faced by an onslaught of evil, the people could do nothing but appeal to the gods. In the last hour, as doom drew nigh, they left their futures in the hands of fate. What became of the kingdom? None remain who know.....
Now as for the Wind Waker, I never really put it in. It happened centuries later after the generations that happened after the Ocarina of Time. I didn't really see no point in putting it down, but if I would have then I would have put that they remembered the legend of the Hero of Time because as I stated in my original post:
These legends were passed down and the events of Link defeating Ganondorf (the end of the Ocarina of Time) was remembered as was tales of Link embarking on a quest of his own (Majora's Mask a childhood era). If both the Adult and Childhood legends were remembered in the Legend of the Wind Waker, then doesn't it sound feasible that they all connect in one straight timeline.
That is what I had stated, but next time when I explain this when perhaps doing a timeline of my own, I will most certainly not forget this. Though I really didn't forget it the first time, but as I stated earlier seen no reason to put it down.
Also for the things like the windmill and stuff like that. Well Link did still have the Ocarina of Time, and he done knew the Song of Storms, so was there was no reason for him to re-learn that song. As for the Silver Gauntlets, there was no reason for Link to use them either as he couldn't as a child, and the Hero of Time's second quest took place as a child. So basically I see it as him still having all of the equipment, but still having to redo the tasks once he returns.
Now going on to the next subject at hand. I have just a few questions to ask about your split-timeline. Note I am not asking this to disprove anything in your timeline, just wondering how you make it work out and what your answers are to some. Okay here goes.
You stated this:
Meanwhile, in Hyrule a craze to find the Tri-Force begins, it makes sense to say that Ganondorf may have stirred this up, but I don't have anything to prove it and I doubt there ever will be any, so it's just speculation.
This is not actually bad since it does state that many aggresively searched for the wish-granting Triforce. My question is why would Ganondorf stir this up? If they were successful in finding it, wouldn't that leave him without having the power to upsurp his opponents. Still this is a minor note since you did say it was just making an assumption as to what could have happened.
In the chaos Ganondorf stumbles upon an entrance to the Sacred Realm and claims the Triforce for himself with it's power he sends Hyrule into darkness.
Okay I have a couple of questions here. One since Ganondorf already knows where the location of the Triforce is, why would he need to stumble on its location? Or are you implying that he just re-entered back into the Sacred Realm since he knew about its whereabouts. If so that would still leave the question as to why it states that "One day quite by accident was open by a gang of thieves skilled in the black arts, and of course the leader of this gang was Ganondorf", but still he did not know of its whereabouts according to "Gates to the Golden Land".
The King, with his seven sages and the Knights of Hyrule, fight off Ganon, while a hero who can wield the Master Sword is searched for, but none is found (note that the legend of the Hero of Time doesn't exist here, otherwise it's very similar to TWW except Ganon is indeed sealed here). In the end Ganon is sealed, this event came to be known as the Imprisoning War.
Okay so the Seven Sages or Seven Wise Men, what ever you want to call them sealed away Ganondorf. This is very true, but in the Ocarina of Time the Master Sword was done forged. In the story of the Imprisoning War it states "Suspecting that Ganon's power was based on the Triforce's magic, the people of Hyrule forged a sword resistant to magic which could repulse even powers granted by the Triforce. This mighty weapon became known as the blade of evil's bane, or the Master Sword. So my question is, if the Master Sword was just forged in the story of the Imprisoning War, then how come it was already forged in Ocarina of Time?
I might have a few other questions later on down the road, but for now this is all I have to ask you.
Oh as far as my timeline goes, as soon as I get my copy of the Minish Cap and finish it, I will think about the series for a bit, and give you my timeline. Look for something weird though that no one will agree with though, but trust me I will give it much added thought.
I stated earlier that:
Hyrule is saved and the Hyrulians build a monumental statue of the Hero of Time. His saga is recorded and soon becomes a legend to the generations later on down the road.
These generations I speak of are the generations after the Legend of the Ocarina of Time. These are the generations that are before the Wind Waker. This generation can be found in the backstory of the Wind Waker.
Backstory to the Wind Waker:
This boy who traveled through time to save the land, was known as the Hero of Time. The boy's tale was passed down through generations until it became legend.
So there was generations later after the events of the Ocarina of Time. During this time Ganondorf freed himself out of his prison. Listen to my words I had posted earlier.
Ganondorf who doesn't back out on his promise frees himself from the Sacred Realm and enacts vengance on the descendants of Link, Zelda, the Six Sages, and everyone else in Hyrule.
Now let us look and the backstory of the Wind Waker to get what I was saying here.
But then...day came when a fell wind began to blow across the kingdom. The great evil that all had thought had been forever sealed away by the hero once again crept forth from the depths of the earth, eager to resume its dark designs.
Okay next I stated this:
The Hyrulians figured there was no reason to fear because the Hero who traveled through time would save them, but he did not, because his time traveling only dealt with a seven year peroid. After seeing that the Hero did not show up the residents of Hyrule pleaded to the Goddesses for help. So the ancient kingdom would not be destroyed a time barrier was placed within the Master Sword, which would keep Hyrule frozen in time until the blade was released from its pedestal. The world was soon flooded and the citizens moved to higher ground, or basically on the islands floating around on the Great Sea.
The backstory states this:
The people believed that the Hero of Time would again come to save them...but the hero did not appear. Faced by an onslaught of evil, the people could do nothing but appeal to the gods. In the last hour, as doom drew nigh, they left their futures in the hands of fate. What became of the kingdom? None remain who know.....
Now as for the Wind Waker, I never really put it in. It happened centuries later after the generations that happened after the Ocarina of Time. I didn't really see no point in putting it down, but if I would have then I would have put that they remembered the legend of the Hero of Time because as I stated in my original post:
These legends were passed down and the events of Link defeating Ganondorf (the end of the Ocarina of Time) was remembered as was tales of Link embarking on a quest of his own (Majora's Mask a childhood era). If both the Adult and Childhood legends were remembered in the Legend of the Wind Waker, then doesn't it sound feasible that they all connect in one straight timeline.
That is what I had stated, but next time when I explain this when perhaps doing a timeline of my own, I will most certainly not forget this. Though I really didn't forget it the first time, but as I stated earlier seen no reason to put it down.
Also for the things like the windmill and stuff like that. Well Link did still have the Ocarina of Time, and he done knew the Song of Storms, so was there was no reason for him to re-learn that song. As for the Silver Gauntlets, there was no reason for Link to use them either as he couldn't as a child, and the Hero of Time's second quest took place as a child. So basically I see it as him still having all of the equipment, but still having to redo the tasks once he returns.
Now going on to the next subject at hand. I have just a few questions to ask about your split-timeline. Note I am not asking this to disprove anything in your timeline, just wondering how you make it work out and what your answers are to some. Okay here goes.
You stated this:
Meanwhile, in Hyrule a craze to find the Tri-Force begins, it makes sense to say that Ganondorf may have stirred this up, but I don't have anything to prove it and I doubt there ever will be any, so it's just speculation.
This is not actually bad since it does state that many aggresively searched for the wish-granting Triforce. My question is why would Ganondorf stir this up? If they were successful in finding it, wouldn't that leave him without having the power to upsurp his opponents. Still this is a minor note since you did say it was just making an assumption as to what could have happened.
In the chaos Ganondorf stumbles upon an entrance to the Sacred Realm and claims the Triforce for himself with it's power he sends Hyrule into darkness.
Okay I have a couple of questions here. One since Ganondorf already knows where the location of the Triforce is, why would he need to stumble on its location? Or are you implying that he just re-entered back into the Sacred Realm since he knew about its whereabouts. If so that would still leave the question as to why it states that "One day quite by accident was open by a gang of thieves skilled in the black arts, and of course the leader of this gang was Ganondorf", but still he did not know of its whereabouts according to "Gates to the Golden Land".
The King, with his seven sages and the Knights of Hyrule, fight off Ganon, while a hero who can wield the Master Sword is searched for, but none is found (note that the legend of the Hero of Time doesn't exist here, otherwise it's very similar to TWW except Ganon is indeed sealed here). In the end Ganon is sealed, this event came to be known as the Imprisoning War.
Okay so the Seven Sages or Seven Wise Men, what ever you want to call them sealed away Ganondorf. This is very true, but in the Ocarina of Time the Master Sword was done forged. In the story of the Imprisoning War it states "Suspecting that Ganon's power was based on the Triforce's magic, the people of Hyrule forged a sword resistant to magic which could repulse even powers granted by the Triforce. This mighty weapon became known as the blade of evil's bane, or the Master Sword. So my question is, if the Master Sword was just forged in the story of the Imprisoning War, then how come it was already forged in Ocarina of Time?
I might have a few other questions later on down the road, but for now this is all I have to ask you.
Oh as far as my timeline goes, as soon as I get my copy of the Minish Cap and finish it, I will think about the series for a bit, and give you my timeline. Look for something weird though that no one will agree with though, but trust me I will give it much added thought.
#89
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Posted 13 January 2005 - 01:17 AM
heh, sorry if I seem like I'm trying to disprove you, I just like to make sure that people's theories are pretty airtight, if I see something I think might be an inconsistency I generally point it out. I hope you don't feel that I'm forcing my view on you by this.
Anyway, to answer your questions, first off, seeing Ganondorf in all the stories he seems like the kind of guy who knows that he's going to win no matter what, judging by this, mere humans had no chance of beating him to the Triforce (we see that this is true by all of the transformed people in the Dark World). He generally just seems conceited, he knows he's the best and most powerful, so why not stir up a little trouble in Hyrule? By his thinking, if anybody else found a way in he'd know it and manage to take advantage of it.
Second point. By my theory, Ganondorf had never before entered the Sacred Realm in this Timeline. The Adult Timeline would be the one in which he successfully entered the Sacred Realm and claimed the Triforce of Power. In the Child Timeline I speculate that he wasn't successful in ravaging Hyrule Castle and chasing out Princess Zelda, the fact that she's not in hiding before the events of MM confirm something of the sort. Anyway, my point is this, by my theory, in the child timeline Ganondorf isn't able to get into the Sacred Realm via the Temple of Time and must find an alternate route, this he finds in the backstory of ALttP. In the Adult timeline however, Ganondorf gets in because of Link and comes to power because of it. Make sense? Sorry I didn't make this clearer before. As far as the by accident part, you put the quote there yourself, that one day quite by accident a gang of thieves finds a way into the Sacred Realm. Regardless of the fact that he knew where it was (as did everybody else in Hyrule due to the legends) he didn't know how he would manage to get there.
Third, regarding the Master Sword. For some reason I have the notion that the part about it being forged during the Imprisoning War part was changed in the new release of ALttP for GBA. I'll have to check on that later to make sure, that's what I was basing it off of. If not, then you've got me there, I'll have to look into it and get back with you.
Thanks for the questions, they really help me refine my theory, I hope to get more later on. By the way, you seem tired of this discussion, if you ever feel like ending it (I know it gets pretty repetative on both sides) just say so and I'll be glad to, a little dissapointed, but still, willing to stop.
Anyway, to answer your questions, first off, seeing Ganondorf in all the stories he seems like the kind of guy who knows that he's going to win no matter what, judging by this, mere humans had no chance of beating him to the Triforce (we see that this is true by all of the transformed people in the Dark World). He generally just seems conceited, he knows he's the best and most powerful, so why not stir up a little trouble in Hyrule? By his thinking, if anybody else found a way in he'd know it and manage to take advantage of it.
Second point. By my theory, Ganondorf had never before entered the Sacred Realm in this Timeline. The Adult Timeline would be the one in which he successfully entered the Sacred Realm and claimed the Triforce of Power. In the Child Timeline I speculate that he wasn't successful in ravaging Hyrule Castle and chasing out Princess Zelda, the fact that she's not in hiding before the events of MM confirm something of the sort. Anyway, my point is this, by my theory, in the child timeline Ganondorf isn't able to get into the Sacred Realm via the Temple of Time and must find an alternate route, this he finds in the backstory of ALttP. In the Adult timeline however, Ganondorf gets in because of Link and comes to power because of it. Make sense? Sorry I didn't make this clearer before. As far as the by accident part, you put the quote there yourself, that one day quite by accident a gang of thieves finds a way into the Sacred Realm. Regardless of the fact that he knew where it was (as did everybody else in Hyrule due to the legends) he didn't know how he would manage to get there.
Third, regarding the Master Sword. For some reason I have the notion that the part about it being forged during the Imprisoning War part was changed in the new release of ALttP for GBA. I'll have to check on that later to make sure, that's what I was basing it off of. If not, then you've got me there, I'll have to look into it and get back with you.
Thanks for the questions, they really help me refine my theory, I hope to get more later on. By the way, you seem tired of this discussion, if you ever feel like ending it (I know it gets pretty repetative on both sides) just say so and I'll be glad to, a little dissapointed, but still, willing to stop.
#90
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Posted 13 January 2005 - 02:10 AM
I am not really tired of discussing this particular subject, just tired of trying to prove or disprove something. I am like you in a way. If I see an inconsistency of something I usually like to ask a question about it and see how they respond to it. I am just saying that I am no longer going to say that there can not be a split-timeline, that is the only thing I am tired of. Not really sure if you and I really got into that, but I may have with others. Still the point is I no longer care about that anymore. Until something is truly surfaced up as a canon timeline, then the only thing we fans can do is speculate, and my speculations of a single-timeline are no different than your speculations of a split-timeline. They are both just theories, so why no just have fun with them and see what others have to say.
Now back to the subject you have explained yourself wonderfully. The Master Sword deal may have been cleared up in its re-release. Sorry I am still working with the old manual. But I do have another question to ask you.
You stated that Ganondorf never entered the Sacred Realm in the Childhood Timeline, but we see Ganondorf behind Link as he grabs the Master Sword, and Ganondorf says "I owe it all to you kid". Still though that isn't my question.
My question is that you still say Ganondorf did not know how to get into the Sacred Realm, but I believe that he clearly did. As you have stated Ganondorf is an arrogant being full of confidence and pride, and he proves that he knew [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] more in the Ocarina of Time that what some may think.
He infected the Great Deku Tree with an Armored Parasitic Arachnid named Gohma, so that it could eventually feed on the tree and in the end kill it. Why would Ganondorf do such a thing? Because he likes being evil. Well that might be it, but I have a feeling he was more after the Kokiri's Emerald. Then we have Darunia clearly state that he was met by Ganondorf, and that the gerudo man demanded the Goron's Ruby to be given to him, and in return he would destroy the rock blocking Dodongo's Cavern. Darunia wouldn't give it to him because of Ganondorf's ill mannered behaviour of demanding the stone. So right there is two key elements that are needed in breaking the seal to the Temple of Time where a gate to the Sacred Realm lies. Does Ganondorf stop there? No, he also infects Lord Jabu-Jabu with a Bio-Electirc Anemone called Barinade. King Zora even stated that the gerudo man had been snooping around, and after his presence their prized deity fish had been acting a little green around the gills. Seems evident to me that Ganondorf was looking for the last Spiritual Stone, Zora's Sapphire. So if Ganondorf succeeded in getting these three stones, what last key thing did he need to get into the Sacred Realm. Why the Ocarina of Time? Who did he chase to try and get this? Why Impa and Zelda, of course. Even though he completely failed at his attempt, Ganondorf is no fool, he soon realized who had the keys to open the Door of Time, and as soon as Link pulled the Master Sword out of its pedestal who was right behind him? Yep, you guessed it, Ganondorf.
This is one of the reasons as to why I can't see how Ganondorf would just stumble up on something that he knows, or it seems like he knows where it clearly is. Unless he finds an alternate route, but why would he since he already knows what to do to get there.
I know this really isn't a big deal, but I would like to know on how you feel about the matter.
Also, like I said I will put my timeline in as soon as my Minish Cap game gets shipped to me and I beat it. If you have already played the Minish Cap would you care to share me your timeline theory. I will not invoke any critisim whatsoever.
Now back to the subject you have explained yourself wonderfully. The Master Sword deal may have been cleared up in its re-release. Sorry I am still working with the old manual. But I do have another question to ask you.
You stated that Ganondorf never entered the Sacred Realm in the Childhood Timeline, but we see Ganondorf behind Link as he grabs the Master Sword, and Ganondorf says "I owe it all to you kid". Still though that isn't my question.
My question is that you still say Ganondorf did not know how to get into the Sacred Realm, but I believe that he clearly did. As you have stated Ganondorf is an arrogant being full of confidence and pride, and he proves that he knew [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] more in the Ocarina of Time that what some may think.
He infected the Great Deku Tree with an Armored Parasitic Arachnid named Gohma, so that it could eventually feed on the tree and in the end kill it. Why would Ganondorf do such a thing? Because he likes being evil. Well that might be it, but I have a feeling he was more after the Kokiri's Emerald. Then we have Darunia clearly state that he was met by Ganondorf, and that the gerudo man demanded the Goron's Ruby to be given to him, and in return he would destroy the rock blocking Dodongo's Cavern. Darunia wouldn't give it to him because of Ganondorf's ill mannered behaviour of demanding the stone. So right there is two key elements that are needed in breaking the seal to the Temple of Time where a gate to the Sacred Realm lies. Does Ganondorf stop there? No, he also infects Lord Jabu-Jabu with a Bio-Electirc Anemone called Barinade. King Zora even stated that the gerudo man had been snooping around, and after his presence their prized deity fish had been acting a little green around the gills. Seems evident to me that Ganondorf was looking for the last Spiritual Stone, Zora's Sapphire. So if Ganondorf succeeded in getting these three stones, what last key thing did he need to get into the Sacred Realm. Why the Ocarina of Time? Who did he chase to try and get this? Why Impa and Zelda, of course. Even though he completely failed at his attempt, Ganondorf is no fool, he soon realized who had the keys to open the Door of Time, and as soon as Link pulled the Master Sword out of its pedestal who was right behind him? Yep, you guessed it, Ganondorf.
This is one of the reasons as to why I can't see how Ganondorf would just stumble up on something that he knows, or it seems like he knows where it clearly is. Unless he finds an alternate route, but why would he since he already knows what to do to get there.
I know this really isn't a big deal, but I would like to know on how you feel about the matter.
Also, like I said I will put my timeline in as soon as my Minish Cap game gets shipped to me and I beat it. If you have already played the Minish Cap would you care to share me your timeline theory. I will not invoke any critisim whatsoever.
