Posted 22 March 2012 - 08:49 PM
Though, given how apathetic I feel now that it's all over, I'll probably just watch a Let's Play of any DLC on youtube rather than get it myself. Or at least wait until it's reviewed. :\
Posted 22 March 2012 - 08:54 PM
Posted 22 March 2012 - 09:04 PM
As for movies, maybe not specifically for fan outrage, but director's cuts tend to hold up a lot better than theatrical cuts. Mostly because the director now has the time and resources to do what he wants without the production company imposing limits. Blade Runner is an example of one that was improved a bunch. With ME3, I think it might have been a similar situation. It sounded like they had a lot of interesting plans on their development notes, couldn't get around to doing it, so we ended up with... er... this.
Plenty of instances of other things being changed though either due to fan outrage or potential fan outrage. Sherlock Holmes was originally supposed to have died! Han Solo, too. Movies get test screenings, and things are changed before final release. Games don't usually have that.
Thus why ME3 is technically broken from the very start of the game. The face importer is broken for those who didn't make any changes to their ME1 character when importing into ME2. You'd have thought someone would have caught that.
At least Elder Scroll glitches are funny.
Posted 22 March 2012 - 09:23 PM
Posted 22 March 2012 - 10:13 PM
And let's be honest, as final as the ending might be, we all know EA will slap Bioware around until a Mass Effect 4 (and 5 and 6...) fall out of them. They could turn out fine, but it's something to tread lightly on.
Posted 22 March 2012 - 10:14 PM
Really, even if they release a new ending (or even a new game) the damage is done. Fans will remember the "actual ending," so even if Bioware pulls a "we were planning this all along" move, the best they can manage is to splinter their fanbase. My understanding of the ending is that the entire final climax needs to be re-written, so this is...for all intents and purposes, unrecoverable.
I'd say that a writer quit and went on to write novels, but that's Dragon Age. Mass Effect's got nothing.
Edited by Egann, 22 March 2012 - 10:17 PM.
Posted 22 March 2012 - 10:25 PM
It's there, SOAP. ME3 has a gay romance option.
Oh I'm well aware of that. It's why I'm stoked about ME3 and not at all bothered by the bad news about the ending. I just don't want that to be my only reason so I'm gonna have to play the first two. Once I get the money to buy any games.... D:
Posted 22 March 2012 - 11:29 PM
Edited by finbarr, 22 March 2012 - 11:29 PM.
Posted 23 March 2012 - 03:28 AM
Maybe it's a case of sequels paling in comparison to their predecessors.
Posted 25 March 2012 - 06:56 PM
my thoughts can be summed up in one phrase: haha what.
i was looking forward to playing through the trilogy again with a new shepard. not sure if i'm bothered now. maybe in a few months.
Posted 25 March 2012 - 08:06 PM
Posted 25 March 2012 - 09:26 PM
I finished the game earlier tonight. I'd say that the ending wasn't good, but was hardly the travesty that the internet made it out to be.
Thoughts in spoilers:
Edited by SteveT, 25 March 2012 - 09:40 PM.
Posted 26 March 2012 - 04:23 AM
I'm still glad I got the CE and the two games were well worth the time and investment, and honestly I probably will buy any DLC that comes out, but yeah, I probably won't bother replaying it anytime soon - I'll just Youtube the two slightly different endings. I'll write more tomorrow - erm later, for now, bed.
EDIT: All right, so after digesting it....you know, while still being disappointed and thinking it was clumsily handled to say the least, I actually don't have much of a problem with the ending.
So yeah. I really don't get the rage. I understand people not liking it and not being happy with it - I myself am not really satisfied - but all the rage and anger is ridiculous. Though I'd rather the series ends right here and right now - I really don't want to play an ME4 about Shepard...
...fighting some random new bad guy that makes no sense at all, or a multiplayer only game and doubt I ever will want it.
Ah well. Now I can go play Final Fantasy XIII-2 and get another ending that's made everyone go insane with anger!
....on second thought I'll just play Tales of Graces f instead. <.<
Edited by DarkJuno, 26 March 2012 - 01:47 PM.
Posted 26 March 2012 - 04:03 PM
Save the rachni queen? Very nice of you but doesn't matter. Let Wrex live? Whoop de doo, doesn't matter. All your squad from ME2 survived? Collector's Base destroyed? Here's two shits, try caring with them.
And the biggest one I think from a non-plot stance: paragon or renegade? Doesn't matter. I never play a bad guy character, but how there isn't a bad guy ending is beyond me.
Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:32 PM
Agreed, the outright rage some fans have is obnoxious. I'm not furious, but I'm... very disappointed. It was a definite Wallbanger ending, as far as tvtropes goes. And you hit with significantly more force because of how generally good the series was until the last part. It was sort of an insult to the intelligence they assumed we had. I do sincerely believe that they hit a deadline and just said "throw whatever we have up there and call it good." In that respect, I wish they hadn't bothered with Kinect functionality (probably a marketing "suggestion" made by Microsoft via EA) or multiplayer. The latter is nice, but this was not a multiplayer series.
With the endings, it seemed as if they were deliberately trying to make it a no-win situation to amp up the "gritty angst." There's no real reason why all synthetics have to die if you pick Destroy. Mass relays and all Reaper tech, sure, but not all synthetics. There's no real reason why Shepard has to die in order to control the Reapers (ruling as galactic emperor with an army of Reapers would have been cool!). And Synthesis? On the surface, the ultimate paragon sacrifice, but the "good" morality path of the game is geared toward embracing diversity. Synthesis basically gives diversity the middle finger and makes everyone the same whether they want it or not. And there's still nothing to stop them from making more "pure" synthetic slave races, and, given that mother nature is inevitably more powerful than even Reaper tech, "pure" life is likely to return at some point.
And, like Vet said, your choices ultimately don't matter, because it all boils down to a number. If you lose support from one faction, you can gain it back with another. And the war assets only really give you tiny little alterations in an otherwise static ending. It's one of those things where, the more you think about it and the more plotholes you find, the more ticked off you get. But, rather than flame all over the internet, it's better to just close the book and lament the wasted potential of the series.
....And then rejoice in all the memes that have come up mocking the bad writing!
Hitler's rather succinct!
Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:04 PM
Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:20 PM
You know, the whole "Synthetics to kill organics so organics can't make synthetics that kill organics" is a little overblown. The Reapers killed the most advanced organics while leaving the piddly little living things alone to evolve and grow. The Catalyst in its "logic" thinks that this is the only solution to avoid having synthetics rebel and then try to kill all organic life from civilizations down to rats and insects. It's incredibly flawed for an allegedly all wise ascended being, at least without any sort of its logic to back it up, but that's that. For good or ill the ending really suffers because it really feels like they had this big grand crazy ending in mind, but ran out of time and rushed through it - which is kind of scary given how they had to delay the game from last Fall to polish it, so who knows how bad it was original going to come across. THe impression I got with Synthesis wasn't that i made everyone the same, it just made everyone a techno-organic being rather then just being one or the other. I mean, Turians, Krogans, Humans, Asari are all organics but they're all wildly diverse, and on the flipside, Reapers, Geth, and even AI borne from Reaper tech like EDI despite all being synthetic are also all different from one another. What I need now is clarification of whether or not the Green light just turned everyone into a hybrid or out and out rewrote reality itself so nature and existence itself is now techno organic, so even Nature itself is synthesis even with whatever evoles from now on.
Son of a bitch I sound like I'm defending it. <.<
Ah well, in the end I do agree about it being a slap in the face, not so much because it's so odd but because it's so poorly done and implemented. As for choices not mattering into the end, that's probably just Bioware wording things badly. I'm not willing to bend over backwards far enough to say the entire game is "The End" and in that regard those choices all do figure into it, but that seems to be where they put their feet into their collectiove mouths. But yeah, I'm not really all that bothered by it, it's just disappointing. I'd say I'll look forward to other Bioware games, but Dragon Age has its own set of bad choices and problems and it seems like The Old Republic is going to stay in MMO land.
Hope for Jade Empire 2.....maybe.....?
Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:46 PM
Really, even if you are going to slap an ending on the conflict, the logical choices are 1)throw at the Reapers everything you've got and hope and pray your rating is enough to handle the invasion (various good and bad endings depending on who's with you), 2) set off the mass relays to kill the reapers as well as every other life form in the galaxy (synthetic or not) so that the next creatures to evolve won't have reapers hanging over them, or 3) Combine Unobtanium and Technobable to create a few possible solutions out of side-missions no one did in the first game, thus forcing everyone to replay your entire game series to get the proper good ending.
That's the *obvious* three choices I cooked up in four minutes. We only have loose variations of #2 here, where the writer gets the message "mass relays blow up" and misses the memo about why anybody would do that to begin with. And coloring effects I can do in Jython separate the endings. Hmm. This smells like executive involvement from EA; we tweak the ending with tools we have here, Bioware takes the PR blame, the fans get mad and (hopefully) demand more Mass Effect, thereby ratcheting up sales. If not, Bioware just takes the blame.
Posted 26 March 2012 - 09:45 PM
Posted 30 March 2012 - 10:58 PM
* The scope and pacing of the game. It was successful in making ME1 feel small, and that's quite an accomplishment. The main quest is suitably tense to keep you hooked on missions - mostly to find out what happens next.
* Likewise, sidequests are meatier. More substance, more cinematics.
* Gun customization, carrying weight and its effect on power recharge time, and the final "evolutions" of biotic/tech powers. Lifting shockwave was good fun. Biotics in general were pretty fun in this game.
* A nice marriage of ME2's combat and ME1's emphasis on story.
* Characters come full-circle and you can really sense how they've matured and progressed through the series. Especially characters like Tali, who began very low-key and innocent, then turned into a powerful leader.
* The biggest pull of the game comes from the fact that it's the third and final installment in an established franchise. You know the characters, you know the story, and you're driving forward to see how it all comes together.
* The only true RPG element to this game is pretty much skill leveling. All other RPG elements have effectively been stripped away, and only superficial remnants have been left behind to create the "illusion" of it still being an RPG. You no longer truly interact with NPCs to learn about quests - you merely eavesdrop on conversations and fetch quests are added to your (nerfed) journal automatically. Shepard butting into NPC debates and taking a side by just selecting one person and pressing a button. Tons of auto-dialogue, even with your crew. Sometimes saying things that "your" Shepard would never say.
* The biggest loss to the RPG element is your ability to free-roam. ME1 funneled into a linear plot near the end, but you were awarded the freedom to do the first half (at least) in whatever order you saw fit. They gave you a bunch of assignments and said "have at it." ME2 turned this up a notch by briefing you on a ton of big missions - as in 80% of the game - and letting you do them in whatever order you pleased, with the occasional mandatory Illusive Man mission in between. ME3 is incredibly linear. Your only free-roaming is deviating from the main quest to do sidequests. There is only one place (The Citadel) to hang out. No real exploration at all, whether on foot or in a Mako-replacement. When you land on a planet, you are in a fixed location - practically on rails - and you fight your way to the end.
* While the combat system is fine, missions are less impressive. There seems to be a lot of "survival wave" situations, where you just stand your ground against a horde of enemies until an invisible timer runs out. While a lot of the baddies (like the Banshee) are impressive, there's no real surprises or creativity in how they get used. Especially in sidequests.
* On that subject, while the sidequests are meatier in terms of story, there are also fewer of them. As in just a handful. Most of them involving cameos of your otherwise unused ME2 crew. The remaining "sidequests" just involve flying to half the planets in the galaxy and scanning them for random items to help with the war effort. No involvement other than pushing a button.
* The lack of "suicide mission" complexity in the ending stage is not only a story fault, but also a gameplay fault. Even ME1 felt more complicated and well-rounded than ME3's final level. Run through London. Defend a missile battery from a giant horde of mooks (yet another survival wave situation). Proceed to ending cutscenes and final choice. You never really get to see the army you forged in action, save for a nice cutscene of the space battle with an optional quarian cutscene spliced in. You've built up the galaxy's biggest fighting force, and you've built up your own personal crew of hardened veterans, and you never get to see things play out like you did in ME2's final stage. Which I had always assumed was a "training run" - from a developer AND player perspective - for the ultimate showdown in ME3.
* I don't mind that we lack a final boss, but, after building up Harbinger as the ultimate Reaper bad guy, it would have been nice to see him for more than a few seconds. And with no dialogue.
* As the story was the driving force behind the game, there's little replay value. Especially since decisions in previous games get wrestled into creating specific, fixed outcomes for this game. As a more minor gripe, there's also many instances of game-lore retcons. Samara's daughters were supposed to be the only ardat-yakshi in the galaxy, for example, and there are sure more than three Banshee in the game.
* The endings, but not simply because "they were sad" or because "they weren't what I wanted." The plot holes and people being completely out-of-character are lesser (but still potent) offenses to dedicated fans. The breaking of the themes established throughout the entire series is a more major offense. They could have ended it with Anderson's death and called it good, whether nor not Shepard when with him. I think there'd have been significantly less shit hitting the fans had they done that. Or went full-tilt into the indoctrination theory, which would have been a pleasant mindfuck had they not pulled out at the last minute.
So, in summary, most of the game's pull came from it being the conclusion to a series. Once the story was said and done with, I've found little desire to go back and play it again. The game itself isn't nearly as solid or amusing without the mystery there. ME2 remains the best "go back and play just for shits and giggles" game in the series. ME1 is good too, but now feels a little clunky in comparison. And I think it's more than fair to say that Bioware dropped the "RPG" aspects of their RPG series, only keeping the label to appease older fans, and turned it into a full-fledged third person shooter.
ME2 was a game I didn't like at first, then it grew on me after a while. ME3's sort of the opposite so far - getting a little worse with age.
Posted 30 March 2012 - 11:33 PM
Oh, my yes. I was playing Vangaurd and didn't even bother with pull after I unlocked liftwave. The main problem was not enough buttons. My usual loadout was Charge, Shockwave, and Energy Drain, so Lift and Nova got no love.
I pretty much agree with your assessment, especially how the Earth assault should have felt more like the suicide mission. The suicide mission in ME2 was one a brilliant sequence, and really rewarded you for investing in and learning about your party. It was a terrible decision not to do the same, only on a galactic scale. Do you want the Turians in the sky or on the ground? Do you regret choosing the quarians over the geth? Can Jack's team hold together in a battle of this scale, or should you let Grunt handle it? So much lost potential for meaningful decisions.And of course I agree with you about the ending. My biggest fear (and this is partially based on Bioware's response) is that they think people are upset that the Reapers didn't turn into ice cream cones while Krogans baked you a cake*. People who play Mass Effect knew that a purely happy ending wasn't likely. All we asked for was a well-written ending that was respectful of everything that came before it. Supposedly, they're announcing some kind of fix in early April. It's probably too late to fix this PR sh*tstorm they've been dealing with lately.
Edited for WTF is my post invisible?
*Image courtesy of Penny Arcade
Edited by SteveT, 31 March 2012 - 11:37 PM.
Posted 31 March 2012 - 06:22 AM
Edited by fluttershep, 05 April 2012 - 03:03 PM.
Posted 05 April 2012 - 03:44 PM
Posted 05 April 2012 - 03:57 PM
Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:36 PM
I hate the "artistic integrity" defense by the way. Any ending so disconnected from the themes and events of the story before it has none to defend.
Also annoyed that Bioware keeps getting the wrong message from fans. Closure is nice. Clarification will only go so far to fix plot holes. People can handle a downer ending. But "Yo I hear you hate being killed by synthetics, so I created synthetics to kill you so you wont' be killed by synthetics. Now destroy civilization for me. I can't reach the button on account of I'm a stupid little hologram" just does not fly.
Edited by SteveT, 05 April 2012 - 06:40 PM.
Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:45 PM
Ugh. Bioware..... that ending was so bad.... and now they say they aren't going to fix it, instead just releasing more cutscene to try to explain what just happened? I think they just missed the point of the complaints. Explaining an ending that nobody likes isn't going to make them like it more. It'll just give them more fodder to feed the complaint cannon. What they really needed to do was revise what they already had. Take the three endings, fill in the plot holes, and possibly add a fourth choice where you get to argue with the supposed all knowing possible figment of your imagination. That things arguments were full of more holes than a sieve, and in a normal conversation anywhere else in the game Shepherd would have been all over those. This ending, however, Shepherd appears to take the unknowns words at face value, not questioning why it gets to decide what Shepherd can/cannot do. I think that was what pissed me off most about the ending. It didn't feel like I was making a choice, I felt like I was just doing as the creepy little mind rape creature was telling me to do. Why should I trust anything from the mouth of a creature that has obviously read my mind to take it's current form? Meh.
Btw, I totally want a Garrus body pillow now.
Posted 05 April 2012 - 10:18 PM
Posted 05 April 2012 - 11:04 PM
"Basically what happens is that shut the fuck up."
I mistakenly went through six pages of that link that fluttershep posted earlier and I kid you not, I loaded a gun and was prepared to shoot
the computer screen.
But has anyone noticed a growing trend of people complaining about various bullshitty things? First Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Deathly Hallows, Mass Effect, even movie directors people once hailed are being dashed to the ground by the internet mob. It's getting quite annoying.