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Skyward Sword's ending (in spoiler tags)


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#31 SOAP

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 05:25 AM

Okay, I know the ending and the rumors are fake. All I can say it laeds into OoT pretty well, [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of the forgone conclusions people expected to happen do happen. There is only one oddball detail that bugs me that kinda makes me believe LoZ or ALttP or even TP happens next instead of OoT. As strange as that may sound and it all has to do what is shown at literally the very last second.

#32 Raien

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 07:58 AM

I just saw the final battle footage and yeah, the 4chan rumours I assumed were true were in fact fake. That said, the real ending is not much better.

Spoiler


*Sigh* I think I'm going to need a stiff drink come Friday.

EDIT: For clarification:

Spoiler

Edited by Raien, 16 November 2011 - 06:14 PM.


#33 SOAP

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:24 PM

I just saw the final battle footage and yeah, the 4chan rumours I assumed were true were in fact fake. That said, the real ending is not much better.

Spoiler


*Sigh* I think I'm going to need a stiff drink come Friday.


Spoiler

Still I would have done it differently.

Edited by SOAP, 16 November 2011 - 12:34 PM.


#34 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:38 PM

Spoiler


#35 Sir Turtlelot

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 03:10 PM

Spoiler


#36 ZeldaZealot

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 11:30 AM

Hmm, Well the only way that ZZ can see for Raien to be happy(at least partially) with the storyline would be that FSA comes before OoT so that...

Spoiler


#37 Sir Turtlelot

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 12:56 PM

Spoiler

Edited by Sir Turtlelot, 17 November 2011 - 12:56 PM.


#38 ZeldaZealot

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 11:18 PM

Possibly, but ZZ was just trying to set the games up in a way that would make Raien at least a little happier with the story progression of OoT's Ganondorf's motive.

#39 SOAP

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 04:23 AM

Possibly, but ZZ was just trying to set the games up in a way that would make Raien at least a little happier with the story progression of OoT's Ganondorf's motive.


Trust me, that's a lost cause.

#40 martinDTanderson

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 12:49 AM

I was quite happy with the ending, as it explained quite a few things, while introducing a couple more new bits of information...

Spoiler


Spoiler


All the previous knowledge of the Triforce...
Spoiler


#41 Crimson Lego

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 10:12 PM

For anyone who's seen the ending...


Spoiler


#42 FDL

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 02:19 PM

I greatly preferred this to TWW's "explanation", which I never really considered a large part of the character anyway. I don't know why the fandom placed such importance on that line from TWW anyway. Ganondorf's greed is clearly not just because the desert sucks.

#43 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 03:08 PM

The fandom liked it because it made him a three-dimensional character, I suppose. I imagined that Ganondorf had legitimate grievances, but because of his jealousy, it turned into full out greed and whatnot. Or maybe it was all something he just told himself to justify his atrocities. The madness of losing everything he tried to conquer could easily lead to him concluding, "No one should stop me because I'm SAVING Hyrule, and when I saave it I deserve to be King!"

whatever the case, being the embodiment of someone else's hatred does a great job explaining how he got so easily corrupted.

#44 FDL

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 03:30 PM

Well I'm not trying to totally devalue it, but yeah that last sentence there is sort of what I'm saying. He was always this embodiment of evil and greed and I think this is a suitably grandiose origin for that. I honestly think this new revelation doesn't retcon the other factors anyway, he was still raised in a harsh environment by two evil witches. I guess my issue with the fandom's reaction to TWW's line would especially be the way it was treated as though Ganondorf was this noble character and his embodiment of evil-ness was suddenly overlooked by many fans.

#45 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 09:55 PM

Alternatively, instead of being a supernatural being incarnated as some human, Demise's curse was a dharma, and Ganondorf just happened to inherit it, but it could fall onto other candidates, such as Vaati, so long as the successor binds the dharmas of Link and Zelda to eternal suffering and conflict.

Interestingly, as the timeline seems to go (in my interpretation anyway), Link and Zelda drift apart over the millenia, becoming less and less affectionate and more and more formal due to not knowing each other well what with their dtrifting-apart social stations and the whole Save The World thing.

Maybe that's the true curse, here. They're together forever, but it's becoming less meaningful for them to be so. Someone want to comb through all the games and see how a timeline would look like on a scale based on this idea? Like, for example, TMC has them more affectionate than OOT, so TMC comes first, etc?

#46 FDL

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 10:53 PM

Demise's words could definitely apply to more than just Ganondorf, though I think with them being voiced by the same guy and both lusting for the Triforce, plus the fact that Aonuma described the game pre-release as touching on why Ganondorf specifically showed up, I get the sense the connection between Demise and Ganondorf is stronger than his connection to other villains, Zant and Aghanim obviously being exceptions.

#47 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 11:53 PM

I would wager the affair is something like "Ganondorf is the one who embodies the dharma of Demise's hatred, but when Ganon is incapacitated, a spiritual balance demands someone takes his place as Demon King."

#48 Hooded Warrior

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 07:17 AM

Personally I never really cared for Wind Waker's version of Ganondorf.
I didn't like the way that Nintendo tried to give him more depth. It felt forced, and it came without foreshadowing. So I'm open to another plot device that explain's Ganondorf's origins.

Edited by Hooded Warrior, 04 December 2011 - 07:20 AM.


#49 Showsni

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 12:05 PM

Maybe that's the true curse, here. They're together forever, but it's becoming less meaningful for them to be so. Someone want to comb through all the games and see how a timeline would look like on a scale based on this idea? Like, for example, TMC has them more affectionate than OOT, so TMC comes first, etc?


You'd have Spirit Tracks coming before Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass, which seems slightly problematic.


#50 BenKelly

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 03:24 PM

Really enjoyed the ending. Having an agency motivating evil in the Zelda world does interfere with the motives of the characters. Religions and philosophy that attempt to explain evil do not negate individual motivation.

I think the game itself has interesting implications on the future of the storyline. The existence of a more futuristic world in the past free of the Master Sword and Ganondorf tropes, while allowing creative freedom to the world could be explored in prequels. Alternatively, a sequel could focus on Ganondorf trying to break free of the will of Demise with a little help from his "friends". Redemption story for a Nintendo villain?


The guys taking over the Zelda creative reings are certainly more story-oriented so anything's possible.

#51 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 04:24 PM

You'd have Spirit Tracks coming before Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass, which seems slightly problematic.


Derp. Well, I don't know, Link and Tetra seemed to have a hell of a thing going on by Phantom Hourglass.

But then Spirit Tracks comes after a seemingly permanent death of Ganondorf anyway. The curse might be full-on broken by King Daphne's wish.

I think the game itself has interesting implications on the future of the storyline. The existence of a more futuristic world in the past free of the Master Sword and Ganondorf tropes, while allowing creative freedom to the world could be explored in prequels. Alternatively, a sequel could focus on Ganondorf trying to break free of the will of Demise with a little help from his "friends". Redemption story for a Nintendo villain?


I wouldn't be interested in any of these possibilities, honestly. They're way too fanfiction-y.

#52 Masamune

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 05:39 PM

Ganondorf, I feel, has too much pride to just be a puppet of Demise or destiny. If he was ever to try and 'break free' of Demise's influence, it would be so he could escape the whole "Doomed To Fail" clause.

#53 Person

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 06:12 PM

Ganon's perma-death in TWW might have just let Bellum and then Malladus take over as the main bearers of the curse.

Edited by Person, 05 December 2011 - 06:13 PM.


#54 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 06:26 PM

Or they're just big ass demons that accumulated a lot of power. Regardless of Demise's curse, there's monsters, demons, and demon lords throughout the world, along with evils that don't have Demise as the root cause, such as Majora's Mask and the Wind Fish's Nightmare.

#55 BenKelly

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 11:54 AM

I wouldn't be interested in any of these possibilities, honestly. They're way too fanfiction-y.


So is an implied Link-Zelda romance and they did that (quite well at that). It would seem to be strange to introduce a new Big Bad into the Zelda mythos, not kill him off in the end and use him to explain the source of evil in the world and then not use him again. He surely will show up again and so will Ganondorf because he's Ganondorf. The prequel addiction that the Zelda team is hooked on certainly hasn't been closed off by the Skyward Sword storyline either.

#56 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 01:45 PM

So is an implied Link-Zelda romance and they did that (quite well at that).


Zelda/Link romance has been around since the first two games, especially with the cartoon.

. It would seem to be strange to introduce a new Big Bad into the Zelda mythos, not kill him off


Errr...well, they kind of did. His body is destroyed and his soul is slowly rotting to nothing, sealed in place by Fi's slumber. That's pretty damn dead as you can expect an immortal quasi-deity Maou to get.

The prequel addiction that the Zelda team is hooked on certainly hasn't been closed off by the Skyward Sword storyline either.


I'd wager that it is; atleast it should be for a good decade, given the significance of Skyward Sword's release.

I mean, there's not much further back they could GO.

#57 BenKelly

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 02:07 PM

So is an implied Link-Zelda romance and they did that (quite well at that).


Zelda/Link romance has been around since the first two games, especially with the cartoon.

. It would seem to be strange to introduce a new Big Bad into the Zelda mythos, not kill him off


Errr...well, they kind of did. His body is destroyed and his soul is slowly rotting to nothing, sealed in place by Fi's slumber. That's pretty damn dead as you can expect an immortal quasi-deity Maou to get.

The prequel addiction that the Zelda team is hooked on certainly hasn't been closed off by the Skyward Sword storyline either.


I'd wager that it is; atleast it should be for a good decade, given the significance of Skyward Sword's release.

I mean, there's not much further back they could GO.


There was no romance implied except on the part of the fans. When on earth did the cartoon impact the games? Now that's fan-fiction!

As for implications based on Zelda traditions if we were to go there, redemption has been a prominent zelda theme since the new guard started taking over circa MM. Skullkid, Staven/Byrne, WW King of Hyrule, Midna are all examples of this, even Ganondorf starts showing depth to his actions in WW. Zelda has been away moving from black and white/good and evil for a while now. And Demise is "sealed", a surefire indication he is indeed alive.

They certainly can go back further if Lanayru desert is populated by robots and moblins carry tazer swords in the past that they don't carry in the present.

#58 joeymartin64

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 10:09 PM

So I guess I'm the only one that didn't see Demise place a curse. It read more to me like he was stating the old "good and evil will always exist" deal. Fi's analysis says he's the "source of all monsters," so maybe the guy we saw really was the source of evil in the Zeldaverse given form. That would mean that him saying his hate never perishes, and that he would rise again is simply him saying that evil will never be totally eradicated.

As for the prequel addiction, hey, with the robots and tech we saw, maybe they can do that sci-fi Zelda some people were wanting, just in the far past instead of the far future. Hell, maybe setting that up was the whole point of including it, you think? Eh? Ehhh? Yeah, me neither.

#59 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 11:51 PM

There was no romance implied except on the part of the fans. When on earth did the cartoon impact the games? Now that's fan-fiction!


Zelda kisses Link in the second game.

As for implications based on Zelda traditions if we were to go there, redemption has been a prominent zelda theme since the new guard started taking over circa MM. Skullkid, Staven/Byrne, WW King of Hyrule, Midna are all examples of this, even Ganondorf starts showing depth to his actions in WW. Zelda has been away moving from black and white/good and evil for a while now. And Demise is "sealed", a surefire indication he is indeed alive.


All those examples of redemption are people who weren't evil to begin with, and depth of action doesn't equate to sympathy or redemption.

Even dead villains are sealed in Zelda, as indicated by the many sealed ghosts or ruined dark treasures of the Twili. Either way, Demise is "ROTTING AND DISSOLVING", so he'll never be as strong as he was. He's effectively out of the picture.

They certainly can go back further if Lanayru desert is populated by robots and moblins carry tazer swords in the past that they don't carry in the present.


Yea, and there's also no Hylians living on the surface, and the sky barrier had never been penetrated before the events of Skyward Sword. The marvelous adventures of Tazer Moblin, I guess.

So I guess I'm the only one that didn't see Demise place a curse. It read more to me like he was stating the old "good and evil will always exist" deal. Fi's analysis says he's the "source of all monsters," so maybe the guy we saw really was the source of evil in the Zeldaverse given form. That would mean that him saying his hate never perishes, and that he would rise again is simply him saying that evil will never be totally eradicated.


Eh, yes and no. He literally said they'd be dogged by an incarnation of his hatred; that was pretty specific wording and I would give it significance. I like to think that Hylia's plans only called for one Link and Zelda, but Demise bound them with eternal dharmas so that they, and Hyrule, would suffer forever.

#60 joeymartin64

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 06:35 AM

Eh, yes and no. He literally said they'd be dogged by an incarnation of his hatred; that was pretty specific wording and I would give it significance. I like to think that Hylia's plans only called for one Link and Zelda, but Demise bound them with eternal dharmas so that they, and Hyrule, would suffer forever.

Could be. It still read more to me like he was stating an established fact, as if something like this had happened before, rather than enacting something, though.




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