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Skyward Sword's ending (in spoiler tags)


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#61 SOAP

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 02:28 PM

I like the idea of Demise's curse being some sort of Dharma Ganon later inherits. It would tie Demise to all the big bads, especially Ganondorf, by being the source of evil, while at the same time give Ganon enough autonomy and retaining his own motives for becoming evil. Something like Jospeph Campbell's Hero Cycle, except a Villian Cycle where Ganon hears the Call of Conquest and responds, fulfilling the role to finish what Demise started. He could have ignored it like Link could ignore his Call to Adventure but then that wouldn't be much of a story would it?

#62 BenKelly

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 06:33 PM

Zelda kisses Link in the second game.


No she doesn't. They move closely together with a curtain in the way. I accept the implication, but that's as close as they got before Skyward sword almost 25 years later and the direct sequel moved hella far away from that fan fiction business.

All those examples of redemption are people who weren't evil to begin with, and depth of action doesn't equate to sympathy or redemption.


I'd say skullkid was more evil than Ganon, but whatever. The kingdom of Ikana got screwed as did several main characters as a result of his actions. Ganondorf is certiably not implied to be "evil to begin with" with that Wind Waker exposition.

Even dead villains are sealed in Zelda, as indicated by the many sealed ghosts or ruined dark treasures of the Twili. Either way, Demise is "ROTTING AND DISSOLVING", so he'll never be as strong as he was. He's effectively out of the picture.


Any villain in Zelda history that is noted to be sealed in game history returns for a second round.

#63 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 06:58 PM

No she doesn't. They move closely together with a curtain in the way. I accept the implication, but that's as close as they got before Skyward sword almost 25 years later and the direct sequel moved hella far away from that fan fiction business.


Either way, there's been implications since like, forever. And for years now, Zelda and Link have been in "Childhood Friend" territory, which in Japanese romanticism is essentially the same as "They're meant to be together."

I'd say skullkid was more evil than Ganon, but whatever. The kingdom of Ikana got screwed as did several main characters as a result of his actions. Ganondorf is certiably not implied to be "evil to begin with" with that Wind Waker exposition.


Skullkid was possessed. Any evil he's actually done he's completely not responsible for.

"I coveted the land of Hyrule because the desert sucks ass" doesn't make someone less evil. Hell, most religions have a thing about how coveting someone else's blessings is a sin for a damn good reason.

Any villain in Zelda history that is noted to be sealed in game history returns for a second round.


Yea, and Ganondorf is Demise's "Second round." Look, man, he's dead. His soul is sealed in a holy blade that's capable of repelling the magic of the Triforce, and he has no body to speak of. The LAST seal he was in was much easier to break out of and it STILL required Zelda DYING and having her SOUL EATEN to come back from it.

What the hell would it take to get out of this one? He doesn't even have Ghirahim to bail him out, and he's been completely forgotten in the wake of Ganon's reign(s) of terror.

#64 ZeldaZealot

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 10:52 PM

Actually, Demise's "Second round" seems to happen within SS as well as long as we view the events of the game as "predestined".

Sealing him within the MS and then somehow returning him to beneath the ground via the Sealing Spike gives way to him trying to escape in Link and Zelda's present time(This would be where his "Second round" is.) where he is defeated/resealed 3 times before finally getting obliterated by the Triforce because of Link's wish.

Edited by ZeldaZealot, 07 December 2011 - 10:53 PM.


#65 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:07 PM

Er...that doesn't actually work. The Master Sword being present implies a change in history, not a closed stable loop.

#66 joeymartin64

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 06:07 AM

So upon reviewing the scene and the wording a couple times, I'm thinking I'm going over to the "placed a curse" way of thinking. The way he says his hate "is born anew in a cycle with no end" rather than "will be born anew" makes it sort of seem like him just stating the old good vs. evil eternal blah blah I was on about before, but there's plenty of future tense after that. I'm going to say it was general up until that point, but him specifying the bloodline of the goddess and spirit of the hero later on is what makes it a new thing. To paraphrase, "Evil will always exist, and I'll make damn sure it fucks specifically with you and yours in the future."

#67 ZeldaZealot

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 10:14 AM

Er...that doesn't actually work. The Master Sword being present implies a change in history, not a closed stable loop.


How so? Ancient Impa had the bracelet(that Zelda gave her at the end of the game) from the very beginning.

#68 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 11:49 AM

How so? Ancient Impa had the bracelet(that Zelda gave her at the end of the game) from the very beginning.


Only after Zelda gives one to her. Think about it. The Master Sword was never placed down in that temple until after Link put it there, in which case it was always there. The same thing happened with the sapling he planted to save the Thunder Dragon; The dragon was dead, and the tree was dead. But he goes back, gets the sapling, plants it in the temple, and in present day it's healthy, and Groose talks about the tree as if IT WAS ALWAYS THERE. He then takes the fruit to the Dragon in the past, which saves its life so that it was never dead in the present.

This isn't a game where time works in loops, if Link does something in the past, it changes the future from what it was before. This has been happening the whole time in Lanayru and the few times it happened in the Sealed Grounds as well.

#69 BenKelly

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 12:07 PM

Either way, there's been implications since like, forever. And for years now, Zelda and Link have been in "Childhood Friend" territory, which in Japanese romanticism is essentially the same as "They're meant to be together."


That interpretation could be based on western romanticism also. That does not mean it was the creators intent. Zelda games after AoL removed that implication, implying romance with a variety of characters that weren't even his childhood friend. Zelda became the business partner. Zelda-Link romance was simply fan-fiction wish fulfillment until now.


I'd say skullkid was more evil than Ganon, but whatever. The kingdom of Ikana got screwed as did several main characters as a result of his actions. Ganondorf is certiably not implied to be "evil to begin with" with that Wind Waker exposition.


Having played MM over the past few days, I find it doubtful that Skullkid had Majora's Mask in his possession when he caused Ikana to collapse in bloodshed. The timeline just doesn't make sense. He is portrayed as a trickster without regard for others before acquiring the mask. Indeed, his tricks have left him alone and isolated before the fairies find him in the rain. How he acquired the mask certainly doesn't portray him as a nice guy either.

"I coveted the land of Hyrule because the desert sucks ass" doesn't make someone less evil. Hell, most religions have a thing about how coveting someone else's blessings is a sin for a damn good reason.


Certainly a stronger moral justification than Skullkid causing pain and suffering purely for his own amusement.

Yea, and Ganondorf is Demise's "Second round." Look, man, he's dead. His soul is sealed in a holy blade that's capable of repelling the magic of the Triforce, and he has no body to speak of. The LAST seal he was in was much easier to break out of and it STILL required Zelda DYING and having her SOUL EATEN to come back from it.

What the hell would it take to get out of this one? He doesn't even have Ghirahim to bail him out, and he's been completely forgotten in the wake of Ganon's reign(s) of terror.


It's still entirely possible that individuals besides Ganon are in some way motivated by Demise in the Zelda canon. Ganon may not necessarily be his "second round". Ganon himself could only be revived by the blood of the hero, except in cases where they decided there were other ways as needed. If the term "sealing" had any point in Zelda history meant the baddie wouldn't show up again, or things losing power over time or diminishing in strength meant they wouldn't be restored, I guess I could agree with you.

#70 BenKelly

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 12:10 PM


Er...that doesn't actually work. The Master Sword being present implies a change in history, not a closed stable loop.


How so? Ancient Impa had the bracelet(that Zelda gave her at the end of the game) from the very beginning.


Plus, Ghirahim kidnaps Zelda in the future in order to "revive" a guy who was dead on account of "perishing" in said future (quoted from the game). Zelda likes its paradoxes.

#71 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 03:37 PM

That interpretation could be based on western romanticism also. That does not mean it was the creators intent. Zelda games after AoL removed that implication, implying romance with a variety of characters that weren't even his childhood friend. Zelda became the business partner. Zelda-Link romance was simply fan-fiction wish fulfillment until now.


Spirit Tracks...Minish Cap...Hell, for the longest time people thought that infamous "Zelda is your..." line meant certain things, too. Add on that Zelda continually claims she feels like she's known Link forever, and there's clearly some sort of spiritual relationship between the two beyond mere "allies" or "business partners." Romantic or otherwise, who the hell knows? But it's not the stretch you're making it out to be. There's been IMPLICATION, and it's completely false to claim it's never been there. What you're saying is that it's never been confirmed like in Skyward Sword, which is ENTIRELY different.

Having played MM over the past few days, I find it doubtful that Skullkid had Majora's Mask in his possession when he caused Ikana to collapse in bloodshed. The timeline just doesn't make sense. He is portrayed as a trickster without regard for others before acquiring the mask. Indeed, his tricks have left him alone and isolated before the fairies find him in the rain. How he acquired the mask certainly doesn't portray him as a nice guy either.


Yea, and Skullkid, if I recall, is never blamed for causing Ikana to collapse, but for disturbing their rest and cursing their land. Which DOES fit within the timeline.

And I don't think childish pranks and petty theft is at all equivalent to "evil." "Evil" in Zelda has been pretty much reserved for world-threatening monsters and soulless bastards, otherwise we have a HUGE problem on our hands concerning several other characters.

Certainly a stronger moral justification than Skullkid causing pain and suffering purely for his own amusement.


And, you know, he was possessed. Skullkid doesn't have nation-cursing dark magics, bro. He's a fucking Skullkid.

It's still entirely possible that individuals besides Ganon are in some way motivated by Demise in the Zelda canon.


You're right. But Ganon(dorf) is the one who is directly connected to Demise. Every other relationship with other Zelda villains is purely secondary, and my dharma model accounts for this pretty much perfectly, since other villains pretty much only seem to pop up with Ganondorf isn't available.

If the term "sealing" had any point in Zelda history meant the baddie wouldn't show up again, or things losing power over time or diminishing in strength meant they wouldn't be restored, I guess I could agree with you.


No other seal has involved killing the person outright and sealing their soul posthumously so that it would ROT AND DECAY INTO NOTHING over time. This isn't merely shoving a villain in a pocket dimension or inside an object, this is making someone no longer alive and them obstructing their ability to reincarnate or revive; breaking the seal isn't going to be sufficient to bring him back to life, and eating Zelda's Soul was necessary to even come part-way back to his old power; Which means something even more ridiculously extreme and thus unobtainable will be required to ever get that strong again. If he's not going to be even a fraction as much of a threat as he was before, what point is there in bringing him back? He's already served his full narrative purpose as the Root of All Evil.

Like, this guy is literally deader than dead.

Plus, Ghirahim kidnaps Zelda in the future in order to "revive" a guy who was dead on account of "perishing" in said future (quoted from the game). Zelda likes its paradoxes.


Well, unsealing him and restoring his true power. He wasn't using "revive" in the "bring back from the dead" sense.

#72 BenKelly

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 03:57 PM

Spirit Tracks...Minish Cap...Hell, for the longest time people thought that infamous "Zelda is your..." line meant certain things, too. Add on that Zelda continually claims she feels like she's known Link forever, and there's clearly some sort of spiritual relationship between the two beyond mere "allies" or "business partners." Romantic or otherwise, who the hell knows? But it's not the stretch you're making it out to be. There's been IMPLICATION, and it's completely false to claim it's never been there. What you're saying is that it's never been confirmed like in Skyward Sword, which is ENTIRELY different.


I'm not making any claims other than it's foolish to dismiss things as fanfiction when they're purely speculation (based on how the current writers have chosen themes) that is unrelated to the existing timeline. You can make arguments that Zelda and Link were always meant to be transcendant true loves based on the previous games, but they would be incredibly weak prior to Skyward Sword.

Yea, and Skullkid, if I recall, is never blamed for causing Ikana to collapse, but for disturbing their rest and cursing their land. Which DOES fit within the timeline.


Play it again. Skullkid is directly blamed for his meddling before it collapsed.

And I don't think childish pranks and petty theft is at all equivalent to "evil." "Evil" in Zelda has been pretty much reserved for world-threatening monsters and soulless bastards, otherwise we have a HUGE problem on our hands concerning several other characters.


Except Ganondorf is never portrayed as completely evil until he gets his hands on the Triforce.


And, you know, he was possessed. Skullkid doesn't have nation-cursing dark magics, bro. He's a fucking Skullkid.


Play the game again. He was not possessed to the point that his morals aren't in question. It is quite clear he has some abnormally long-lived spirit since he was friends with the Giants for a long time. He is not simply a "fucking skullkid".


You're right. But Ganon(dorf) is the one who is directly connected to Demise.


How?




No other seal has involved killing the person outright and sealing their soul posthumously so that it would ROT AND DECAY INTO NOTHING over time. This isn't merely shoving a villain in a pocket dimension or inside an object, this is making someone no longer alive and them obstructing their ability to reincarnate or revive; breaking the seal isn't going to be sufficient to bring him back to life, and eating Zelda's Soul was necessary to even come part-way back to his old power; Which means something even more ridiculously extreme and thus unobtainable will be required to ever get that strong again. If he's not going to be even a fraction as much of a threat as he was before, what point is there in bringing him back? He's already served his full narrative purpose as the Root of All Evil.

Like, this guy is literally deader than dead.


Like the Master Sword became useless? The developers can write in anything they want. It's fantasy to think the "Satan" of the Zelda universe is gone from a narrative perspective.



Well, unsealing him and restoring his true power. He wasn't using "revive" in the "bring back from the dead" sense.


Prove it. He says it directly after giving mocking congratulations for the heroes killing Demise. You make some extraordinary arguments I'll give you that. I thought it couldn't get any worse than saying there were no Hylians before Skyward Sword or dismissing an advanced world in the past even though that's what the developers clearly portrayed...

Edited by BenKelly, 08 December 2011 - 04:01 PM.


#73 Crazy Penguin

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 04:38 PM

You're right. But Ganon(dorf) is the one who is directly connected to Demise.


How?


Posted Image

Well, unsealing him and restoring his true power. He wasn't using "revive" in the "bring back from the dead" sense.


Prove it. He says it directly after giving mocking congratulations for the heroes killing Demise.


Link used the Triforce to kill Demise for good in the present. That's why Girahim had to go back in time to awaken Demise. If Girahim had the power to bring Demise back to life he would have done it in the present.

It's fantasy to think the "Satan" of the Zelda universe is gone from a narrative perspective.


Demise became Ganondorf, just as Hylia became Zelda.

#74 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 05:01 PM

I'm not making any claims other than it's foolish to dismiss things as fanfiction when they're purely speculation (based on how the current writers have chosen themes) that is unrelated to the existing timeline. You can make arguments that Zelda and Link were always meant to be transcendant true loves based on the previous games, but they would be incredibly weak prior to Skyward Sword.


See the bold? That's something I never claimed about anything.

Play it again. Skullkid is directly blamed for his meddling before it collapsed.


Direct quotes, please. Because the very idea of Skull Kid genociding an entire nation through indirect manipulation is blatantly against his entire characterization. He's blames for meddling with the dead and disturbing their rest, which is entirely different, and done while under Majora's influence.

Except Ganondorf is never portrayed as completely evil until he gets his hands on the Triforce.


And the first half of OOT...and the entirety of FSA...and essentially every time he's been on screen ever. Ganondorf seeks the Triforce for his evil ambitions, he doesn't become evil because of his lust for the Triforce.

Play the game again. He was not possessed to the point that his morals aren't in question. It is quite clear he has some abnormally long-lived spirit since he was friends with the Giants for a long time. He is not simply a "fucking skullkid".


Skullkids are undead, they can live for as long as they want to so long as someone doesn't kill them.

And, again, there is totally leagues between being a childish prankster and engineering the fall of an entire country. Why would the Guardians of Termina consider him a friend if he's responsible for the death of an entire quarter of the population?

How?


They look alike, they have the same voice actor and Aonuma claims that means something, Ganondorf is completely and totally iconic of the face of evil that dogs Link and Zelda throughout time, they both lust after the Triforce when no other Zelda villain seems to give a shit about it...

Like the Master Sword became useless?


Funny that, this happened in TWW and Demise still didn't show up or anything. Even if it did, he's DEAD. He is a deceased, rotting soul, and you'll still need to get around the whole coming back from the dead problem. It required the eating of the soul of a goddess for him to simply come back from a weaker form, how's he meant to come back from NO form at all?

It's fantasy to think the "Satan" of the Zelda universe is gone from a narrative perspective.


You need to brush up on your mythology, then. It happens all the time. Lords of Evil are permanently incapacitated quite frequently and can act only metaphorically via their legacy. It happens a lot in fantasy fiction, too, such as the Lone Power in the Young Wizards series, or Morgoth in the fucking Lord of the Rings.

Prove it. He says it directly after giving mocking congratulations for the heroes killing Demise.


Demise isn't dead in the past, therefore he cannot be 'revived' in the 'resurrecting from the dead' sense. He can only be 'revived' in the sense of being restored to what he was previously, as one would restore a desposed king back to the throne of his castle.

You make some extraordinary arguments I'll give you that. I thought it couldn't get any worse than saying there were no Hylians before Skyward Sword or dismissing an advanced world in the past even though that's what the developers clearly portrayed...


Thanks for straight up making it clear you're not respecting a word that comes out of my mouth by comparing it to nonsense no one on this forum has claimed. That really makes me want to continue a civil conversation with you and I am absolutely not offended.

#75 ZeldaZealot

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 05:19 PM

Only after Zelda gives one to her.


Not according to this cutscene(At about 6:45.) which happens when Link meet Ancient Impa for the first time. There were also tales about a ceremony between the Goddess and her chosen hero that the people in Skyloft replay, and eventually we find out the ceremony was between Zelda(the Goddess reborn.) and Link(her chosen hero.) in the past.

Edited by ZeldaZealot, 08 December 2011 - 05:29 PM.


#76 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 05:24 PM

Ah. Well, that doesn't change issues I already brought up like the Master Sword or the Tree of Life, so chalk this one up to Zelda Time Mechanics being grossly inconsistent once again.

#77 ZeldaZealot

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 05:57 PM

Sorry, ZZ was in the middle of editing his post when his net crashed for a few seconds and when he came back he saw that you made another post. So you don't have to respond to this post, ZZ just wanted to point out a few more things that seemed to indicate that it was all predestined.


...But considering that not only is there the bracelet, but the tale about ceremony between the Goddess and her chosen hero(which is played out literately later in the game between Zelda, the Goddess reborn, and Link, her chosen hero.), the clothes the Goddess was said to wear in the ceremony(which Zelda was wearing in said ceremony.), and the tale about the Goddess(Zelda) giving her chosen hero(Link) a sailcloth.

All of that seems to indicate that the game is a Stable Time Loop, with only a few inconsistency(Mainly only the Tree of Life and Lanaryu the dragon.).

As for the Master Sword... the pedestal is not there in the past before you fight Ghirahim/Demise, so it seems to be another in game inconsistency unless someone wants to theorize that Impa is able to conceal/move it.


But it is not like Skyward Sword is the only Zelda game that had inconsistency with time traveling. There is OoT with its Song of Storm vs Spirit Temple(hacking Adult Link into the temple when he should go do the child portion and finding out that the child portion is not done at all.). MM with its ending where somehow all the events that gave you masks came true even if some of those events conflicted with each other, and then there is OoA, which had some predestined events, like the Goron section of the game, and where it if you change the past the future is also changed, pretty much the rest of the game... In fact, Hidemaro Fujibayashi was the director of the Oracle games and Skyward Sword... Maybe he just doesn't care much for time traveling consistency.

#78 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 06:37 PM

All of that seems to indicate that the game is a Stable Time Loop, with only a few inconsistency(Mainly only the Tree of Life and Lanaryu the dragon.).


Not necessarily; it really only indicates that some things are in a Stable Time Loop, but not all. Interestingly, all the things that are in a loop are related directly to Zelda, who has always had a special affinity for Time.

#79 D~N

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 06:46 PM

There were also tales about a ceremony between the Goddess and her chosen hero that the people in Skyloft replay, and eventually we find out the ceremony was between Zelda(the Goddess reborn.) and Link(her chosen hero.) in the past.

...

...But considering that not only is there the bracelet, but the tale about ceremony between the Goddess and her chosen hero(which is played out literately later in the game between Zelda, the Goddess reborn, and Link, her chosen hero.), the clothes the Goddess was said to wear in the ceremony(which Zelda was wearing in said ceremony.), and the tale about the Goddess(Zelda) giving her chosen hero(Link) a sailcloth.


This line you said here piqued my interest. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just wondering what makes you say this, because during my playthrough I dont remember establishing this ceremony in the past between Link and Zelda. Can you refresh my memory as to when Link and Zelda performed the ceremony in the past (thus making it so that they could do so again in the future) or perhaps can you show me a clip from when this occurs? Indeed I would like for this to be true, I just dont remember it happening.


So I've got a few strange theories after finishing the game last night but I need to do a bit of research first. And I'm also doing some toying around with geography because the last few games are doing a pretty ok job at remaining consistent, so I think I'll take a stab at it.(edit: it appears i'm not the only one keen on the sleeping zelda similarities. I'll post about this some time in the future, because I'm pretty sure we're in AoL territory)

Edited by D~N, 10 December 2011 - 06:55 PM.


#80 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 12:01 AM

This line you said here piqued my interest. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just wondering what makes you say this, because during my playthrough I dont remember establishing this ceremony in the past between Link and Zelda. Can you refresh my memory as to when Link and Zelda performed the ceremony in the past (thus making it so that they could do so again in the future) or perhaps can you show me a clip from when this occurs? Indeed I would like for this to be true, I just dont remember it happening.


The ceremony re-enacts when the Goddess gave her Chosen Hero the sailcloth, but before Link's adventure, the land below had been unspoiled, and furthermore the Goddess Sword went directly from the Goddess's hands to Link's, with no owner inbetween. He's not saying the ceremony was performed in the past, he's implying that the ceremony is re-enacting ITSELF, like a timeloop based on a faded, slightly misremembered memory.

#81 D~N

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 12:39 AM

Ooooooh. Well, yeah. So what he's saying, in a sense, is that what was supposed to be Link and Zelda putting on a make-belive ceremony turned out to be literally another ceremony because - surprise! - Zelda is the goddess, and Link is the hero? Is that what he's saying? Or put another way, instead of the events of the game being a re-enactment, it's more of an enactment? (I thought ZZ meant that when link goes back in time he enacts the "first" of the ceremonies or something, like Zelda passes a sailcloth in the past, which would have been interesting, but never happened so i was confused.)

Edited by D~N, 11 December 2011 - 12:44 AM.


#82 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 01:44 AM

Yes, that's basically what he's saying. The story of the sailcloth is actually telling itself because of the mechanics of Zelda's memory. It's one of those weird loopy things her status as the Goddess causes in this game.

#83 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 11:16 AM

Just like any other Zelda game all SS did is simply add another adventure to the timeline and bring up more questions. It was a nice touch explaining the source of evil that has plagued Hyrule, but was that an explanation we ever asked for or wondered about? If anything we just want to know how all the games piece together. SS like so many other Zelda games, does not do that other than establishing itself as yet another prequel--only this time as the 'original' prequel.

What I noticed (other than what's already been discussed):

1.) The Silent Realm is the Sacred Realm since you can find the TriForce pieces there and the Master Sword is used as a key to get there, just like in OOT.

2.)I think Groose may be the forefather of the Gerudo tribe as he has red hair and yellow eyes. I thought a clear reference to to him and Ganon would be made by games end, but that didn't happen. So this could just be fan fiction, but still very plausible.

3.) Girahim is not only Demise's servant, but also the sentient force of Demise's blade just like Fi is to the Master Sword.

Edited by Tri-Enforcer, 11 December 2011 - 11:18 AM.


#84 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 03:13 PM

2.)I think Groose may be the forefather of the Gerudo tribe as he has red hair and yellow eyes. I thought a clear reference to to him and Ganon would be made by games end, but that didn't happen. So this could just be fan fiction, but still very plausible.


Groose is such a boss that his genes can only spawn sexy women who can also give birth to only sexy women. Trufax.

Just like any other Zelda game all SS did is simply add another adventure to the timeline and bring up more questions. It was a nice touch explaining the source of evil that has plagued Hyrule, but was that an explanation we ever asked for or wondered about? If anything we just want to know how all the games piece together. SS like so many other Zelda games, does not do that other than establishing itself as yet another prequel--only this time as the 'original' prequel.


Aside from the admittedly minor time paradox at the end of the game, I don't think this game really brought up any hard or significant questions. Everything pretty much clicks together perfectly. And the game does give pretty much the best explanation for "The Legend of Zelda" herself so far.

#85 joeymartin64

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 08:32 PM

Groose is such a boss that his genes can only spawn sexy women who can also give birth to only sexy women. Trufax.

We need to make this the next "Gary Motherfucking Oak."

Aside from the admittedly minor time paradox at the end of the game, I don't think this game really brought up any hard or significant questions. Everything pretty much clicks together perfectly. And the game does give pretty much the best explanation for "The Legend of Zelda" herself so far.

I've got one. Why does OoT-era Hyrule seem more aware of the Golden Trio, the deities SS calls the "old gods," than the more recently-relevant goddess Hylia? It's not a huge thing, but it did stand out to me.

#86 SOAP

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 09:34 PM

I've got one. Why does OoT-era Hyrule seem more aware of the Golden Trio, the deities SS calls the "old gods," than the more recently-relevant goddess Hylia? It's not a huge thing, but it did stand out to me.


Technically they're not more aware in OoT. Aside from the Great Deku Tree, who is an age-old spirit himself, no one refers to the goddesses by name. Zelda refers to them as the goddesses when recounting how they hid the Triforce and the way she tells the story to Link, it's as if it's esoteric knowledge. Average people just refer to "the gods" in a general polytheistic sense like the Man on the Ledge. Any other time the Goddess are referred to by name, it's on items or magic related to them like Din's Fire or Farore's Wind. Pretty much the same as it is SS where you have Din's Power, Farore's Flame, ect and provinces named after the Golden Goddesses but other than Hylia, any other deity is refered to as the "Old Gods." And even in Hylai's case, she's more commonly reffered to as The Goddess or Her Grace. Perhaps it's blasphemous to refer to the gods by name.

Edited by SOAP, 11 December 2011 - 09:36 PM.


#87 joeymartin64

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 09:41 PM

It was actually the Deku Tree's (and, to an extent, ALttP's) recounting of the creation myth that I was thinking about, in that the creator deities are known by name, but the deity responsible for the founding of the kingdom isn't mentioned at all though. Upon further reflection, though, I realize that he was just giving Link a primer on the Triforce, not the history of Hyrule or anything, so mentioning Hylia wouldn't have been relevant. And with ALttP's, there's a shitload of stuff that happens between the creation story and the events leading up to that game that the manual skips over anyway, so that doesn't matter.

EDIT: Actually, it just hit me that Zelda mentions the Triforce's Sacred Realm location as being where the Trio put it, but that doesn't gel with what happened in SS, where it starts having been given to Hylia, and ends in the possession of the MCs. I wonder how it ended up (back?) in the Sacred Realm prior to OoT.

Edited by joeymartin64, 11 December 2011 - 09:45 PM.


#88 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 11:14 PM

I've got one. Why does OoT-era Hyrule seem more aware of the Golden Trio, the deities SS calls the "old gods," than the more recently-relevant goddess Hylia? It's not a huge thing, but it did stand out to me.


The awareness was always there, but Hylia worship created an APATHY for the other Gods. Remove knowledge of Hylia and the other goddesses regain prominence.

Actually, it just hit me that Zelda mentions the Triforce's Sacred Realm location as being where the Trio put it, but that doesn't gel with what happened in SS, where it starts having been given to Hylia, and ends in the possession of the MCs. I wonder how it ended up (back?) in the Sacred Realm prior to OoT.


Hylia IS the Sacred Real-no that's stupid.

#89 joeymartin64

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 11:18 PM

The awareness was always there, but Hylia worship created an APATHY for the other Gods. Remove knowledge of Hylia and the other goddesses regain prominence.

Why would knowledge of Hylia have been removed, though. You'd think the royal family having literally been descended from divinity wouldn't be something they'd hide. Or maybe they would.

Hylia IS the Sacred Real-no that's stupid.

Eh, I'll break out my speculator hat for this one. Zelda/Hylia can access the Sacred Realm because she's a goddess, and she stashes it there to hide it from mortal history. It's back where it originally was, and nobody outside the MCs is the wiser. Bam.

#90 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 11:48 PM

Why would knowledge of Hylia have been removed, though. You'd think the royal family having literally been descended from divinity wouldn't be something they'd hide. Or maybe they would.


"Hey so uh that incarnation of hatred guy is going to come after us, and if it knows who I am they may or may not try to sacrifice me or my next incarnation to revive their true self as Demise or something?"

"Yea, let's do some MIB shit and remove Hylia from the records. Everyone'll think she's a lake lol"

Eh, I'll break out my speculator hat for this one. Zelda/Hylia can access the Sacred Realm because she's a goddess, and she stashes it there to hide it from mortal history. It's back where it originally was, and nobody outside the MCs is the wiser. Bam.


Ehhh...I liked TP's implication that the Sacred Realm was physically part of Hyrule until the Twili War thing caused the Goddesses to hide it in a new manner, dividing the world. Maybe the "Sacred Realm" is defined as "Wherever the Triforce is" until said split occured?




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