Selena is right, as the days went through time they would have been translated time and time again..... they could end up completely distorted from what they originally were
The Sabbath Day! (Yet again)
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, Nov 26 2004 01:55 PM
135 replies to this topic
#61
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Posted 28 November 2004 - 02:23 AM
#62
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Posted 28 November 2004 - 02:39 AM
*shrugs* I just looked this up for the hell of it, and apparently Saturday is the holy day. Not that this necessarily goes too in depth, or has to be right. http://webexhibits.o...000000000000000
Although that doesn't... really explain how most people switched over to Sunday. Ah, well, cultures and religions adapt, as always. It's unavoidable.
Although that doesn't... really explain how most people switched over to Sunday. Ah, well, cultures and religions adapt, as always. It's unavoidable.
#63
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Posted 28 November 2004 - 02:42 AM
Well it only takes one person doesn't it? One person decides "hey, sunday suits me better" and away they go... it can change a whole religion
#64
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Posted 28 November 2004 - 04:11 AM
I told you, catholics switched it over. Thats nmot an assumption, its a fact. They also had NO right.
#65
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Posted 28 November 2004 - 04:12 AM
Too late now. You go ahead and worship when you want.
#66
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Posted 28 November 2004 - 04:16 AM
Of course, but I'm trying to stop others from breaking it as well 
#67
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Posted 28 November 2004 - 11:57 AM
They're not breaking it. They still work for six days and rest on the seventh.
Anyway, another point to consider: by the way the Jews reckoned time, the Sabbath was from sunset Friday to sunset on Saturday. Thus, if you want to do things the Jewish way, all the answers in this poll are heretical.
Anyway, another point to consider: by the way the Jews reckoned time, the Sabbath was from sunset Friday to sunset on Saturday. Thus, if you want to do things the Jewish way, all the answers in this poll are heretical.
#68
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Posted 28 November 2004 - 01:26 PM
huh?
In the bible, the name "Saturday" Started sunset friday to sunset saturday, so yeah. I do follow that, I start sabbath sunset friday to sunset saturday.
In the bible, the name "Saturday" Started sunset friday to sunset saturday, so yeah. I do follow that, I start sabbath sunset friday to sunset saturday.
#69
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Posted 28 November 2004 - 02:49 PM
Windmill, what do you think about Romans 14:5? The Scripture says "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."Of course, but I'm trying to stop others from breaking it as well
#70
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Posted 28 November 2004 - 08:16 PM
Windmill, if you're out to save everyone from damnation, consider this: God probably won't count it against me that I worshipped him on Sunday if I meant it with my whole heart and mind. If I'm still going to church once a week and setting one day aside as a Sabbath, I don't think he's gonna throw a fit over the fact that it wasn't the day that was stated thousands of years ago.
#71
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Posted 28 November 2004 - 10:13 PM
Read on, tell me the rest pleaseWindmill, what do you think about Romans 14:5? The Scripture says "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."
(the next 5 or so verses after that) THEN we'll discuss that verse.All that can save us is grace. But, also, remember this verse, "If you love me you will obey my commandments". If you're presented with the facts on the sabbath and when it should be kept and you ignore it, what does that say?Windmill, if you're out to save everyone from damnation, consider this: God probably won't count it against me that I worshipped him on Sunday if I meant it with my whole heart and mind. If I'm still going to church once a week and setting one day aside as a Sabbath, I don't think he's gonna throw a fit over the fact that it wasn't the day that was stated thousands of years ago.
Also, as you keep the sabbath on sunday, how do you keep it? Do you go to church then do your own thing?
#72
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Posted 28 November 2004 - 10:15 PM
Read on, tell me the rest please (the next 5 or so verses after that) THEN we'll discuss that verse.
Says the woman who thinks the integrity of the Bible rests on one article...
That passage, if memory serves, is part of the Meat Clause ©
EDIT: My bad
#74
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Posted 29 November 2004 - 12:45 AM
You can read Romans 14, or any other Bible verse (in multiple versions) by going to www.gospelcom.net. Go here: http://www.biblegate...0&optional.y=0. for Romans 14.Read on, tell me the rest please
Windmill, if you're out to save everyone from damnation, consider this: God probably won't count it against me that I worshipped him on Sunday if I meant it with my whole heart and mind. If I'm still going to church once a week and setting one day aside as a Sabbath, I don't think he's gonna throw a fit over the fact that it wasn't the day that was stated thousands of years ago.
Actually Jasi, Windmill has a point. Even if the Sabbath can be held on any day of the week, we're still not keeping it simply by going to church. Technically, we've got to abstain from work, and follow various other Old Testament laws. The way I see it, Jesus' statement that "the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath," alleviates us from keeping a kosher Sabbath. Still, Windmill is right that we're not following the Old Testament laws.
#75
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Posted 29 November 2004 - 01:29 PM
Kosher sabbath? Is that just the sabbath?
Also, to answer that verse, notice that the whole chapter is on judging one another (Verses 4, 10, 13). The issue here is not over the seventh-day Sabbath, which was a part of the great moral law, but over the yearly feast days of the ceremonial law. Jewish Christians were judging Gentile Christians for not observing them. Paul is simply saying, "Don't judge each other. That ceremonial law is no longer binding."
Also, to answer that verse, notice that the whole chapter is on judging one another (Verses 4, 10, 13). The issue here is not over the seventh-day Sabbath, which was a part of the great moral law, but over the yearly feast days of the ceremonial law. Jewish Christians were judging Gentile Christians for not observing them. Paul is simply saying, "Don't judge each other. That ceremonial law is no longer binding."
#76
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Posted 29 November 2004 - 08:16 PM
Why are some ceremonial laws no longer binding, while others are? The Bible never says "follow the Ten Commandments, don't follow other commandments." The Torah is complete and holy. The apostle James says that if you follow the Law, you have to follow the entire Law. James 2:10 says, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."
If it is OK to not keep the feast days, it is also OK to not keep the Sabbath. Besides that, the Sabbath was created for man, not man for the Sabbath. God created the Sabbath to give us a day of rest. When God tells us to honor the Sabbath, he is telling farmers to give their workers a day of rest, and he is telling kings to give their servants a day without work. Keeping the Sabbath is giving others time to rest and worship the Lord. Jesus' problem with the Kohanim of his day is that they didn't recognize this. They thought the Sabbath was created for God, that he needs our services on this day.
But what does God need with a Sabbath? He doesn't need to rest, we do. To forget this misses the point of the Sabbath.
Now, I don't think there's anything wrong with SDAs keeping the Sabbath. According to Paul, a Sabbath kept in good faith is a praise to God. "Let every man be convinced in his own mind."
If it is OK to not keep the feast days, it is also OK to not keep the Sabbath. Besides that, the Sabbath was created for man, not man for the Sabbath. God created the Sabbath to give us a day of rest. When God tells us to honor the Sabbath, he is telling farmers to give their workers a day of rest, and he is telling kings to give their servants a day without work. Keeping the Sabbath is giving others time to rest and worship the Lord. Jesus' problem with the Kohanim of his day is that they didn't recognize this. They thought the Sabbath was created for God, that he needs our services on this day.
But what does God need with a Sabbath? He doesn't need to rest, we do. To forget this misses the point of the Sabbath.
Now, I don't think there's anything wrong with SDAs keeping the Sabbath. According to Paul, a Sabbath kept in good faith is a praise to God. "Let every man be convinced in his own mind."
#77
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Posted 29 November 2004 - 08:19 PM
Well said.
#78
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Posted 29 November 2004 - 08:29 PM
Oh, thank you.
#79
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Posted 29 November 2004 - 11:16 PM
Hey windmill, you can stop blaming the Catholics for the change of day now. *rolls eyes* Besides, we CHANGED it to honor of Jesus' resurection. What the heck is wrong with that? And I agree with what Arunma said about the Sabbath days too.
#80
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Posted 30 November 2004 - 01:12 AM
Wow, I'm put in a difficult position. On one hand, it's wrong for people to attack the Catholic religion. But on the other hand, SDA beliefs include a condemnation of Catholicism (as Windmill has said), and I certainly can't stop people from talking about Adventism either. What's a mod to do?
#81
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Posted 30 November 2004 - 01:42 AM
I'm not attacking the catholics... just stating facts in history. If you can't handle that... well then... I'm NOT attacking catholics, you changed it.
Why are the 10 commandments binding? Because they are Gods law, not moses law! The 10 commandments were never ceriomonial laws. They were gods laws.
(I'm copying and pasting this from my online bible study lesson)
Moses' law was the temporary, ceremonial law of the Old Testament. It regulated the priesthood, sacrifices, rituals, meat and drink offerings, etc., all of which foreshadowed the cross. This law was added "till the seed should come," and that seed was Christ (Galatians 3:16, 19). The ritual and ceremony of Moses' law pointed forward to Christ's sacrifice. When He died, this law came to an end, but the Ten Commandments (God's law) "stand fast for ever and ever." Psalm 111:8. That there are two laws is made crystal clear in Daniel 9:10, 11.
Special Note: Please note that God's law has existed at least as long as sin has existed. The Bible says, "Where no law is, there is no transgression [or sin]." Romans 4:15. So God's Ten Commandment law existed from the beginning. Men broke that law (sinned--1 John 3:4). Because of sin (or breaking God's law), Moses' law was given (or "added"--Galatians 3:16, 19) till Christ should come and die. Two separate laws are involved: God's law and Moses' law.
MOSES' LAW GOD'S LAW (moses will come first, God's second)
Called "the law of Moses" (Luke 2:22). Called "the law of the Lord" (Isaiah 5:24).
Called "law ... contained in ordinances" (Ephesians 2:15). Called "the royal law" (James 2:8).
Written by Moses in a book (2 Chronicles 35:12). Written by God on stone (Exodus 31:18; 32:16).
Placed in the side of the ark (Deuteronomy 31:26). Placed inside the ark (Exodus 40:20).
Ended at the cross (Ephesians 2:15). Will stand forever (Luke 16:17).
Added because of sin (Galatians 3:19). Points out sin (Romans 7:7; 3:20).
Contrary to us, against us (Colossians 2:14). Not grievous (1 John 5:3).
Judges no one (Colossians 2:14-16). Judges all people (James 2:10-12).
Carnal (Hebrews 7:16). Spiritual (Romans 7:14).
Made nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:19). Perfect (Psalm 19:7).
Why are the 10 commandments binding? Because they are Gods law, not moses law! The 10 commandments were never ceriomonial laws. They were gods laws.
(I'm copying and pasting this from my online bible study lesson)
Moses' law was the temporary, ceremonial law of the Old Testament. It regulated the priesthood, sacrifices, rituals, meat and drink offerings, etc., all of which foreshadowed the cross. This law was added "till the seed should come," and that seed was Christ (Galatians 3:16, 19). The ritual and ceremony of Moses' law pointed forward to Christ's sacrifice. When He died, this law came to an end, but the Ten Commandments (God's law) "stand fast for ever and ever." Psalm 111:8. That there are two laws is made crystal clear in Daniel 9:10, 11.
Special Note: Please note that God's law has existed at least as long as sin has existed. The Bible says, "Where no law is, there is no transgression [or sin]." Romans 4:15. So God's Ten Commandment law existed from the beginning. Men broke that law (sinned--1 John 3:4). Because of sin (or breaking God's law), Moses' law was given (or "added"--Galatians 3:16, 19) till Christ should come and die. Two separate laws are involved: God's law and Moses' law.
MOSES' LAW GOD'S LAW (moses will come first, God's second)
Called "the law of Moses" (Luke 2:22). Called "the law of the Lord" (Isaiah 5:24).
Called "law ... contained in ordinances" (Ephesians 2:15). Called "the royal law" (James 2:8).
Written by Moses in a book (2 Chronicles 35:12). Written by God on stone (Exodus 31:18; 32:16).
Placed in the side of the ark (Deuteronomy 31:26). Placed inside the ark (Exodus 40:20).
Ended at the cross (Ephesians 2:15). Will stand forever (Luke 16:17).
Added because of sin (Galatians 3:19). Points out sin (Romans 7:7; 3:20).
Contrary to us, against us (Colossians 2:14). Not grievous (1 John 5:3).
Judges no one (Colossians 2:14-16). Judges all people (James 2:10-12).
Carnal (Hebrews 7:16). Spiritual (Romans 7:14).
Made nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:19). Perfect (Psalm 19:7).
#82
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Posted 30 November 2004 - 09:31 AM
I'm not attacking the catholics... just stating facts in history. If you can't handle that... well then... I'm NOT attacking catholics, you changed it.
Woah, OK!
Why are the 10 commandments binding? Because they are Gods law, not moses law! The 10 commandments were never ceriomonial laws. They were gods laws.
I think you misunderstand. The entire "Law of Moses" was given by God. It wasn't just the Ten Commandments.
You mentioned that the Law doesn't make anyone perfect. That's Paul's point in Romans. The Law itself is perfect (as the Psalms state), but it can only identify sin, not correct it. The point is, all parts of the Law are binding, not only the Ten Commandments.
#83
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Posted 30 November 2004 - 01:02 PM
All parts of Gods laws. Cerimonial laws arn't in tact.
#84
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Posted 30 November 2004 - 03:28 PM
Where are the ceremonial laws separated from the Ten Commandments? They're written in the same Torah.
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Posted 30 November 2004 - 09:40 PM
Arunma, whoever told you that they are the same? I suppose it must've been the person who also told you hell exsisted 
First of all, all of the 10 commandments are re-afirmed in the new testimant. Below are the verses for each commandmen. The first one/set of verse/s are the new testaments, the second is from the old testament (the 10 commandments)
THE LAW OF GOD IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THE LAW OF GOD IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
1. "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." Matthew 4:10. 1.
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Exodus 20:3.
2. "Little children, keep yourselves from idols." 1 John 5:21. "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device." Acts 17:29. 2.
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments." Exodus 20:4-6.
3. "That the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed." 1 Timothy 6:1. 3.
"Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain." Exodus 20:7.
4. "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works." "There remaineth therefore a rest ["keeping of a sabbath," margin] to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his." Hebrews 4:4, 9, 10. 4.
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:8-11.
5. "Honour thy father and thy mother." Matthew 19:19. 5.
"Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee." Exodus 20:12.
6. "Thou shalt not kill." Romans 13:9. 6.
"Thou shalt not kill." Exodus 20:13.
7. "Thou shalt not commit adultery." Matthew 19:18. 7.
"Thou shalt not commit adultery." Exodus 20:14.
8. "Thou shalt not steal." Romans 13:9. 8.
"Thou shalt not steal." Exodus 20:15.
9. "Thou shalt not bear false witness." Romans 13:9. 9. "Thou shalt not bear false winess against thy neighbour." Exodus 20:16.
10. "Thou shalt not covet." Romans 7:7. 10.
"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's." Exodus 20:17.
Below is a section I've copied and pasted from my online bible lesson.
Moses' law was the temporary, ceremonial law of the Old Testament. It regulated the priesthood, sacrifices, rituals, meat and drink offerings, etc., all of which foreshadowed the cross. This law was added "till the seed should come," and that seed was Christ (Galatians 3:16, 19). The ritual and ceremony of Moses' law pointed forward to Christ's sacrifice. When He died, this law came to an end, but the Ten Commandments (God's law) "stand fast for ever and ever." Psalm 111:8. That there are two laws is made crystal clear in Daniel 9:10, 11.
Special Note: Please note that God's law has existed at least as long as sin has existed. The Bible says, "Where no law is, there is no transgression [or sin]." Romans 4:15. So God's Ten Commandment law existed from the beginning. Men broke that law (sinned--1 John 3:4). Because of sin (or breaking God's law), Moses' law was given (or "added"--Galatians 3:16, 19) till Christ should come and die. Two separate laws are involved: God's law and Moses' law.
First of all, all of the 10 commandments are re-afirmed in the new testimant. Below are the verses for each commandmen. The first one/set of verse/s are the new testaments, the second is from the old testament (the 10 commandments)
THE LAW OF GOD IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THE LAW OF GOD IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
1. "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." Matthew 4:10. 1.
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Exodus 20:3.
2. "Little children, keep yourselves from idols." 1 John 5:21. "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device." Acts 17:29. 2.
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments." Exodus 20:4-6.
3. "That the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed." 1 Timothy 6:1. 3.
"Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain." Exodus 20:7.
4. "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works." "There remaineth therefore a rest ["keeping of a sabbath," margin] to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his." Hebrews 4:4, 9, 10. 4.
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:8-11.
5. "Honour thy father and thy mother." Matthew 19:19. 5.
"Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee." Exodus 20:12.
6. "Thou shalt not kill." Romans 13:9. 6.
"Thou shalt not kill." Exodus 20:13.
7. "Thou shalt not commit adultery." Matthew 19:18. 7.
"Thou shalt not commit adultery." Exodus 20:14.
8. "Thou shalt not steal." Romans 13:9. 8.
"Thou shalt not steal." Exodus 20:15.
9. "Thou shalt not bear false witness." Romans 13:9. 9. "Thou shalt not bear false winess against thy neighbour." Exodus 20:16.
10. "Thou shalt not covet." Romans 7:7. 10.
"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's." Exodus 20:17.
Below is a section I've copied and pasted from my online bible lesson.
Moses' law was the temporary, ceremonial law of the Old Testament. It regulated the priesthood, sacrifices, rituals, meat and drink offerings, etc., all of which foreshadowed the cross. This law was added "till the seed should come," and that seed was Christ (Galatians 3:16, 19). The ritual and ceremony of Moses' law pointed forward to Christ's sacrifice. When He died, this law came to an end, but the Ten Commandments (God's law) "stand fast for ever and ever." Psalm 111:8. That there are two laws is made crystal clear in Daniel 9:10, 11.
Special Note: Please note that God's law has existed at least as long as sin has existed. The Bible says, "Where no law is, there is no transgression [or sin]." Romans 4:15. So God's Ten Commandment law existed from the beginning. Men broke that law (sinned--1 John 3:4). Because of sin (or breaking God's law), Moses' law was given (or "added"--Galatians 3:16, 19) till Christ should come and die. Two separate laws are involved: God's law and Moses' law.
#86
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Posted 30 November 2004 - 09:51 PM
Am I to take it that the guy who wrote that is the same one who told you Hell doesn't exist?
I see no reason to believe there are two sets of laws here.
I see no reason to believe there are two sets of laws here.
#87
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Posted 30 November 2004 - 10:10 PM
The "restatement" of the Sabbath commandment in Hebrews seems pretty shaky. It sounds more like a statement of fact than a commandment.
#88
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Posted 30 November 2004 - 10:14 PM
Edit: Bah...I suppose I should minimize the sarcasm in here.
#89
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Posted 01 December 2004 - 01:19 PM
I wouldn't stop you.Edit: Bah...I suppose I should minimize the sarcasm in here.
Well, it was a series of direct commands from god, who isn't known for flip-flopping on such issues.Moses' law was the temporary, ceremonial law of the Old Testament.
#90
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Posted 01 December 2004 - 02:28 PM
Read my above posts.
God makes them very clearly distant from the 10 commandments.
God makes them very clearly distant from the 10 commandments.
