75 replies to this topic

[Raien]

Guys, your troll-detection equipment is seriously broken! How many times does a user registered in the last twenty-four hours have to immediately flame-bait and condescend to everyone in the forum before you realise these "debates" are designed solely to get your end up?

I mean, seriously, "Amerikkka"? You might get fooled by Selena's MilkMaidMalon, but there's no excuse for falling for this.

Edited by Raien, 16 June 2010 - 08:34 AM.

[Reflectionist]

Sweet. So it IS Picman?

I believe this post is now in effect.

[Elvenlord]

'SOAP', on 15 Jun 2010 - 11:06 PM, said:

Edit: Elvenlord, Link wears pants in TP. The same exact ones too if I'm not mistaken.

[ganonlord6000]

'SOAP', on 15 Jun 2010 - 11:06 PM, said:

'Chiaki', on 15 Jun 2010 - 10:41 PM, said:

I'm happy with it. The graphics are a nice blend between TP and WW; looks nice! I'll be interested in finding out what the premise is, but hey, its nice to see a Zelda game worth getting a little excited over for a change!

I like it too. I've been waiting for them to marry the too looks ever since TP came out. Though having seen what it looks it does seem a bit awkward looking. The toon look makes sense with young Link because we're suppose to be seeing things through the eyes of a 12 year old. As an adult Link it just makes seem gay...(and I can say that since I am gay, no one else XP). I mean look at him. He looks so pretty! LOL What's worse is taht this is suppose to be the oldest Link has been, older than TP Link. Maybe it was more a young teenage Link like 14 or 13, it'd be more believable. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving this [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img]! There's only two things I truly hate, the title logo (it just seems to blah). And the HUD. Having a huge transparent wii remote on the screen is way too distracting and takes away from the fantasy feel of the game. What I'm really hyped about is the possibility of getting to explore Hyrule in complete cell-shaded goodness. Something I've been really dying to see ever since they gave us a taste of it in TWW. That would more than make up for Link's pretty pretty PRETTY boy looks.





Pretty. Haha.

Overall, I feel pretty mixed about this. One things for sure, I'm totally surprised. Also, no one's mentioned that Link has the Master Sword in the screen shots. I thought this games was supposed to Master Sword-less till towards the end. Or was that one of the false rumors?

Edit: Elvenlord, Link wears pants in TP. The same exact ones too if I'm not mistaken.

I was refering to that sword earlier. And the Moblin didn't help. I can just feel Ganon's return. About time as well.

Quote

Okay, I don't know who this Picman is but I was never banned from this site.

Quote

Wait a minute! Picman, weren't you banned?

@ SOAP: How can anyone be confused with Picman? After what I've heard about him, that's a bad thing to mistake someone for. Do I want to know why he was banned anyway?





He was a member of this site a few years ago. That's all I know.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Look, all I know is that they need to improve the graphics a bit. Link looks rather strange.

[Toan]

'Wolf O'Donnell', on 16 Jun 2010 - 6:50 PM, said:

Look, all I know is that they need to improve the graphics a bit. Link looks rather strange.

I'm not sure he does, though - he's not much different that the TP Link:




Honestly, he looks better/more cleaned up to me.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Well, he certainly looks better in that picture (the right one) you provided. Maybe it's just that the settings on the trailer were a bit too bright.

[Selena]

Okay, yeah, I don't have the patience for this guy, even if it's slightly amusing. Bye. XD

[Egann]

Good Grief. What a way for a perfectly good discussion thread to go down the toilet. Now where were we? Oh, that's right!


Personally, I don't mind stylized graphics. So long as the content reflects the graphics style, it's cool. Sure TWW was cartoony and TP was a touch more "detailed," but TWW was a family tale about Link going

[SOAP]

@ Ganonlord. Sorry I got Zola Revolution confused with Picman. Actually when Zola first came, I thought he was Picman even then.

[Nameless_Joe]

Well, to return to the original topic,

I've watched two versions of the trailer on Youtube. Here are some observations thus far:

1) The doglike moblins have returned! Yay!
2) The graphics will doubtlessly improve by the time Skyward Sword (shall we abbreviate it SS?) is released, so I'm not worried on that front.
3) Stepping back and considering the style, I think the general color palette and style are somewhat comparable to LttP, if it had been 3D.
4) What's with the Deku Scrubs (If that's what they are)? They look really ugly, and the stubby tentacles are reminiscent of Octoroks.
5) Like the scorpion boss!

[Sir Turtlelot]

'Nameless_Joe', on 17 Jun 2010 - 01:00 AM, said:

3) Stepping back and considering the style, I think the general color palette and style are somewhat comparable to LttP, if it had been 3D.

You know, I actually somewhat thought about that. This game seems like what some of the older games would look like if they were in 3D.

[Nevermind]

'Toan', on 16 Jun 2010 - 7:13 PM, said:

'Wolf O'Donnell', on 16 Jun 2010 - 6:50 PM, said:

Look, all I know is that they need to improve the graphics a bit. Link looks rather strange.

I'm not sure he does, though - he's not much different that the TP Link:




Honestly, he looks better/more cleaned up to me.

He looks fresh out of a Disney film.

[Sir Deimos]

I still don't even see the problem with The Wind Waker Link... XD So yeah, this one looks great to me too...

[Nevermind]

I thoroughly enjoyed The Wind Waker. The style matched well with the designs. It worked.

This new one, though, whilst not OVERLY bad, puts the "cartoon" look on the more standard-proportioned character designs.

[D~N]

Compare these:

Spoiler

And these:

Spoiler

Just for fun:

=/

Now, something I DO like about this game is the new official art! Check this out!

Spoiler

I think it's obvious that link is younger than TP link here.

Edited by D~N, 16 June 2010 - 11:23 PM.

[Nevermind]

Those screenshots don't look too bad there. Still.

Disney. o__o

[wisp]

I like what I've seen of this game so far. IMO it's a big improvement on the style of TWW/PH/ST. Still cute and vibrant, but just slightly more mature looking.

I'm sure it will be a long time before I'll be able to play it, since I don't own a Wii... but I think it's pretty. Of course, I'm an admitted fan of Disney movies, so...

[Sir Deimos]

'D~N', on 17 Jun 2010 - 04:18 AM, said:

Compare these:

Spoiler

And these:

Spoiler

Just for fun:

=/

Now, something I DO like about this game is the new official art! Check this out!

Spoiler

I think it's obvious that link is younger than TP link here.

And you hate the SS look..? I still don't get it...

[sdp]

My only problem and while stupid it does bother me a lot, Links design.
Its just a celshaded version of TP Link, he looks awful, at least give him different clothes designs or take away the chain mail which makes it especially obvious. Of course I'd rather see young link, not a big fan of Adult link except in a game like OOT were he starts as young link. But at I'll take anything that isn't just a celshaded of a previous link. Its already lame enough FS/A and Minish Cap all shared the same design.

The graphics gave me mixed feelings, I'm glad they aren't realistic since the Wii can't handle it and I loved seeing the return of cel shaded zelda world. However instead of a cartoony way while this one looks more like a painting.

Final nitpick, this will be the first canon right handed Link, that bothers me. I'm right handed but wouldn't mind playing left handed.

Besides that I'm pretty excited, I like 1:1 motion controls and the new Zelda controls perfectly.

[Reflectionist]

'Nameless_Joe', on 17 Jun 2010 - 01:00 AM, said:

Well, to return to the original topic,

I've watched two versions of the trailer on Youtube. Here are some observations thus far:

1) The doglike moblins have returned! Yay!
2) The graphics will doubtlessly improve by the time Skyward Sword (shall we abbreviate it SS?) is released, so I'm not worried on that front.
3) Stepping back and considering the style, I think the general color palette and style are somewhat comparable to LttP, if it had been 3D.
4) What's with the Deku Scrubs (If that's what they are)? They look really ugly, and the stubby tentacles are reminiscent of Octoroks.
5) Like the scorpion boss!

Doubtful on #2, but I wouldn't mind if they hiked up some of the clarity on the further away areas. I like the style, but it doesn't suit the bow-sniping aspect that Twilight Princess had. I rather liked that. And #4, those are Octoroks. Miyamoto-san said so himself on stage. *shrug*

[D~N]

'Synile', on 17 Jun 2010 - 05:35 AM, said:

And you hate the SS look..? I still don't get it...

...well yeah. It looks like some of the trees came right out of Mario 64. Which would be fine if the style was interesting and detailed, but no, when I mean Mario 64, I mean pixelated and flat, too. This style is fine; after all, I loved it in TWW. But just like PH and ST on the handhelds, something about this cell-shading just makes me fee like they're doing it wrong. Cell shading is a brilliant style choice because you can smooth out edges and create a detail-less world that still looks asthetically pleasing. But there inlies the rub; they're trying to blend TP, a style with details, and TWW, a style without them, and what they get is a world where trees are soft and pastel colored, which would be fine, but then they try to add details and it just falls to pieces.

The whole point of TWW is to play to the Wii's stengths. Trying to compromise it with TP is foolish. Picking one or the other would have been wiser, because there styles are two different to try and blend, I feel. I hope they prove me wrong or the style grows on me over time, because I really think they did a poor job. Mario Galaxy 2 proved that cell-shading can look amazing on the Wii. TP proved that realistic graphics can look spectacular on the Gamecube! This, however...I mean, just look at some of the trees! I thought it would speak for itself...

I guess it just speaks to the kind of art I like. I enjoy whatever you'd call the WW's style every now and again. I really do. But my true favorite art style is sublimity. Epic backdrops, huge fields...basically TP. And now I guess I feel like the cell-shading is contaminating my favorite style, so to speak. It's a filter I would rather not have. It's also a lingering dissapointment after they promised us the darkest Zelda game yet, with the most mature Link, etc. And that one picture they revealed made me certain we'd be getting a sublime style. If we weren't told that in the first place, I might not be as agitated as I am now.

Edited by D~N, 17 June 2010 - 10:21 AM.

[TheAvengerLever]

The Great Debate still rages on: Cel-shaded, or epic/realism?

Zelda games: dividing their own fan community several titles at a time.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

'SuperAvengerButton', on 17 Jun 2010 - 5:04 PM, said:

The Great Debate still rages on: Cel-shaded, or epic/realism?

Zelda games: dividing their own fan community several titles at a time.

Well, it they're going for epic/realism, then Link needs a naked scene... for the fangirls... and fanboys.

Edited by Wolf O'Donnell, 17 June 2010 - 02:32 PM.

[Sir Deimos]

'D~N', on 17 Jun 2010 - 3:12 PM, said:

'Synile', on 17 Jun 2010 - 05:35 AM, said:

And you hate the SS look..? I still don't get it...

...well yeah. It looks like some of the trees came right out of Mario 64. Which would be fine if the style was interesting and detailed, but no, when I mean Mario 64, I mean pixelated and flat, too. This style is fine; after all, I loved it in TWW. But just like PH and ST on the handhelds, something about this cell-shading just makes me fee like they're doing it wrong. Cell shading is a brilliant style choice because you can smooth out edges and create a detail-less world that still looks asthetically pleasing. But there inlies the rub; they're trying to blend TP, a style with details, and TWW, a style without them, and what they get is a world where trees are soft and pastel colored, which would be fine, but then they try to add details and it just falls to pieces.

The whole point of TWW is to play to the Wii's stengths. Trying to compromise it with TP is foolish. Picking one or the other would have been wiser, because there styles are two different to try and blend, I feel. I hope they prove me wrong or the style grows on me over time, because I really think they did a poor job. Mario Galaxy 2 proved that cell-shading can look amazing on the Wii. TP proved that realistic graphics can look spectacular on the Gamecube! This, however...I mean, just look at some of the trees! I thought it would speak for itself...

I guess it just speaks to the kind of art I like. I enjoy whatever you'd call the WW's style every now and again. I really do. But my true favorite art style is sublimity. Epic backdrops, huge fields...basically TP. And now I guess I feel like the cell-shading is contaminating my favorite style, so to speak. It's a filter I would rather not have. It's also a lingering dissapointment after they promised us the darkest Zelda game yet, with the most mature Link, etc. And that one picture they revealed made me certain we'd be getting a sublime style. If we weren't told that in the first place, I might not be as agitated as I am now.

From what I've seen it doesn't look all that bad at all. And nothing says that a bright art style would clash with dark game play. Have you played Persona 3? Persona 3 is a Shin Megami Tensei game. Shin Megami Tensei games are renowned for their really dark subject matter. Persona 3 was a cel shaded game. Sure it's not as extreme and cartoonish as what has been shown for Skyward Sword, but to assume the art style will negatively impact the storyline is something that can not be accurately accounted for until the game debuts. Also there is nothing out there that says cel shading isn't allowed to be detailed.

But I personally always seem to be able to be completely open minded when it comes to radical new changes in artistic direction.

[SOAP]

'Synile', on 18 Jun 2010 - 01:51 AM, said:

'D~N', on 17 Jun 2010 - 3:12 PM, said:

'Synile', on 17 Jun 2010 - 05:35 AM, said:

And you hate the SS look..? I still don't get it...

...well yeah. It looks like some of the trees came right out of Mario 64. Which would be fine if the style was interesting and detailed, but no, when I mean Mario 64, I mean pixelated and flat, too. This style is fine; after all, I loved it in TWW. But just like PH and ST on the handhelds, something about this cell-shading just makes me fee like they're doing it wrong. Cell shading is a brilliant style choice because you can smooth out edges and create a detail-less world that still looks asthetically pleasing. But there inlies the rub; they're trying to blend TP, a style with details, and TWW, a style without them, and what they get is a world where trees are soft and pastel colored, which would be fine, but then they try to add details and it just falls to pieces.

The whole point of TWW is to play to the Wii's stengths. Trying to compromise it with TP is foolish. Picking one or the other would have been wiser, because there styles are two different to try and blend, I feel. I hope they prove me wrong or the style grows on me over time, because I really think they did a poor job. Mario Galaxy 2 proved that cell-shading can look amazing on the Wii. TP proved that realistic graphics can look spectacular on the Gamecube! This, however...I mean, just look at some of the trees! I thought it would speak for itself...

I guess it just speaks to the kind of art I like. I enjoy whatever you'd call the WW's style every now and again. I really do. But my true favorite art style is sublimity. Epic backdrops, huge fields...basically TP. And now I guess I feel like the cell-shading is contaminating my favorite style, so to speak. It's a filter I would rather not have. It's also a lingering dissapointment after they promised us the darkest Zelda game yet, with the most mature Link, etc. And that one picture they revealed made me certain we'd be getting a sublime style. If we weren't told that in the first place, I might not be as agitated as I am now.

From what I've seen it doesn't look all that bad at all. And nothing says that a bright art style would clash with dark game play. Have you played Persona 3? Persona 3 is a Shin Megami Tensei game. Shin Megami Tensei games are renowned for their really dark subject matter. Persona 3 was a cel shaded game. Sure it's not as extreme and cartoonish as what has been shown for Skyward Sword, but to assume the art style will negatively impact the storyline is something that can not be accurately accounted for until the game debuts. Also there is nothing out there that says cel shading isn't allowed to be detailed.

But I personally always seem to be able to be completely open minded when it comes to radical new changes in artistic direction.

My beef is mainly with Link himself. I think what was shown of the game's enviroments is absolutely gorgeous and the enemies look cool (except for the Moblin looking guys but they'll grow on me). But Link himself just looks like a slightly edited TP Link with a texture pallete swap. Number one, it clashes but that's not really the point. What really bugs me, now that I think of it, is that it shows a lack of creativity. They go through all that trouble to build a beautiful landscape taht looks like ALttP Hyrule brought to life as a moving painting. Where did that creativity go when it came to designing Link? One thing I always loved about the series is how everytime a new Link appears, he's a totally different person while still keeping same overall theme. When TWW Link came out, some were outraged but I found him very unique from the rest and at the same time almost a homage to LoZ Link. But then after that, the Links after him were just carbon copies of him which made a fresh, new style old and played out really quick. Then TP Link comes out with a new look was a breath a of fresh air compared to FS, TMC, and ST Link. Making SS Link a clone of TP Link with MC Hammer pants is repeating the same mistakes that the TWW styled Links. I don't know about you but when they said this game will be unlike all the rest I was not expecting them to reuse the same character models from TP. A part of me hopes this is just a stand-in until they can make the real SS Link.

Also, I don't think anyone has said anything about the storyline. We know nothing about the story other than Link lives on a floating island and for him that's pretty ordinary, We're just talking visuals now. I'm sure it could have a dark story to it. TWW's story is very dark, darker than TP's if you think about it.

Edit: Actually, looking at the screenshots for the OoT 3DS remake, it would make more sense to use OoT Link as a reference for SS Link's design. OoT Link's proportions actually are kinda cartoony and would fit better for this world.

Edited by SOAP, 17 June 2010 - 09:44 PM.

[Sir Deimos]

'D~N', on 17 Jun 2010 - 3:12 PM, said:

It's also a lingering dissapointment after they promised us the darkest Zelda game yet, with the most mature Link, etc.

I took 'darkest Zelda game yet' to mean dark story content. That was why I brought that up.


You do have a very good point about the surprising lack of creativity involved in the Link model they made for Skyward Sword, SOAP.

[SOAP]

Oh ok. I just took 'darkest Zelda yet' as in it's mood and presentation not it's story content. I just know SS will be pretty dark in story even if it's more subtle like it was in TWW. Which I kinda like.

[Nevermind]

Though if you want "darkest Zelda yet" you kind of need to have the dark atmosphere as well as story content. Visual aesthetics are the entry level attractions for our immersive experience with video games. To completely suck people into feel the morbidity of a "dark game", you need the visual atmosphere.

[TheAvengerLever]

Which I'm sure that SS will not disappoint in the graphics department.