93 replies to this topic

[FDL]

The Hero's Spirit and Faron outright say Link is the blood relative of the hero who used to have the Triforce of Courage.

Edit: Plus, I don't get why you all actually LIKE the idea that the gods are just haphazardly throwing the Triforce pieces around. Maybe it's just me who dislikes that idea.

Edited by Fierce Deity Link, 21 November 2007 - 12:34 PM.

[Fyxe]

Hoo boy, I have decided that Ricky lives in his own little dimension where the Zelda storyline bends to his whim. Thus this argument is as pointless as ever.

As usual I have no idea what you're talking about, and before you mutter something tasteless like "That doesn't surprise me" it's because you're suggesting that I'm trying to overcome my own damn theory within Zelda storyline that's laughable.

I wouldn't have muttered that, because, and I don't know why I have to keep saying this, I don't like to fling around personal insults attacking people's intelligence or whatever and I rarely ever do so. Yeah, surprising, I know. @.@

Aside from that, I don't know what you're talking about. If you're talking about your personal timeline, I don't ever keep tracks on what timeline people want or believe in or whatever. I take every argument as it comes. You were twisting logic in a fanficcy kinda way, so I say you're bending the storyline to your whim. Also you were claiming random things as fact. o.o Which is what my next comment was about. And on that note...

Oh, right, well done, thanks for telling me, y'know, because the game didn't. Tell us more mystical truths about the Zelda plot, for we merely look at the games, but thanks to you, the Oracle of Aonuma, we can learn the truth! THE TRUTH MUST BE HEARD.

Don't degrade yourself for speculation's sake Fyxe. >.> <.<

...What the fuck are you ON about? Degrade myself for speculation's sake? What the hell does that even mean? I was being sarcastic for the sake of nothing in particular. Maybe it was the vain hope of getting a sensible reply on the subject. But noooo.

FDL, I'm with you on this. I have no bloody clue why everybody is latching onto a theory that they have essentially pulled out of their collective asses.

[SOAP]

The Hero's Spirit and Faron outright say Link is the blood relative of the hero who used to have the Triforce of Courage.

Edit: Plus, I don't get why you all actually LIKE the idea that the gods are just haphazardly throwing the Triforce pieces around. Maybe it's just me who dislikes that idea.

I don't like that idea either. But that's not what this is about at all. The Triforce is split and is doing what it always has been doing. Seeking out three destined to wield each of the three pieces until three pieces can be united again. We all just assumed taht all three chosen ones get their pieces immediately and at the same time. That might not be the case. Especially since Link going back in time creates an unusual circumstance. If we go by Ricky's theory, Link goes back in time and causes the Triforce to split even though no one's touched it yet. All on account of a technicality where Link is still is the bearer of Courage. Zelda and Ganondorf aren't bearers yet though they're destined to be. They might get their pieces later.

None of this has to do with the Goddesses.

[LionHarted]

All on account of a technicality where Link is still is the bearer of Courage.

Except he's not, until sometime between returning to the past and the very last scene.

[SOAP]

All on account of a technicality where Link is still is the bearer of Courage.

Except he's not, until sometime between returning to the past and the very last scene.

And that's why exactly? It's still the same Link who did everything before Zelda sent him into the past.

[LionHarted]

And that's why exactly? It's still the same Link who did everything before Zelda sent him into the past.

Presumably because he returned to the past, and because the Triforce was left in the future (obviously).

He doesn't have the Triforce of Courage when he leaves the Temple of Time.

[Arturo]

The Triforce of Courage doesn't have to be shown all the time. It could just be resonating because of Zelda's.

[spunky-monkey]

I still think it has the least plotholes to say that Link shut Ganondorf IN the Sacred Realm when he closed the Door of Time, not out of it.

We'd then have a scenario where both past and future versions of Ganon were trapped in both timelines and since the TP Sages foiled the warlord's invasion captured the dorf-man himself this child-timeline 'sealing' is rather unnecessary.

The one he, y'know, had. When he was revived he just smiled, he didn't seem surprised that he got the Triforce of Power.

Still didn't notice this; there was something inbetween maniacal laughter and yelling in pain when that Sage's Sword was pulled out leaving a mortal wound, at this point I assume Ganondorf knew he had been chosen and the Triforce of Power would keep him alive. We know that Ganondorf confesses this himself towards the end in Twilight Princess with Midna defying him as ruler blah blah blah. But anyway, no OMGZ smile unless there was bad animation involved.

Do you realize how flawed that is? Who am I kidding, of course you do. You probably just don't care.

Stop being so smug. Thing is, I don't care enough and you care way too much. Relax, it's just a video game.

Explain how you're reconciling this with the actually storyline, though. Honestly, the ToC shining on his hand lends more credence to the idea that they all had it rather than the idea that only one had it.

Contrary to belief Zelda's Triforce of Wisdom isn't shown - though some here argue her younger self was much too naive and inexperienced to weld it yet so the ToW may have gone to the King which may point to everyone realising Link is telling the truth thus exposing Ganon's plot even more so. Regardless, Link is the only one who has a part of the Triforce until the Mirror Chamber scene, although I can't explain why ToC isn't shown in Majora's Mask but I'll save that one for later...

I'm arguing my *theory* though. The theory you claimed was illogical. Clearly it's got more logic than you said initially considering you've done nothing to disprove it. Or are pseudo-insults your form of debate?

Except we both know I'm not debating -your- theory. Duh. You were presenting argument(s) against my theory otherwise you wouldn't have quoted it in the first place, thereby causing me to defend it with possible reasons for, and deciding whether or not the "divine prank" being plausible in the series as fact.

Actually, I was responding to the general idea that it's impossible for anyone to capture Ganondorf after he got the Triforce of Power. But, no, calling me a smartass when you have so little grasp of what you're talking about is perfectly okay.

WTF. Dude, that's what I have been arguing from the start and in previous Twilight Princess story spoiler threads. You're really starting to take the piss FDL.

It's importance was to reassure us that this wasn't the first meeting of Link and Zelda.

No, the whole intention of this final scene was to show this was their first meeting all over again, Link had gone back in time to set things right. Do me a favor and actually READ my beginning post.

I think you're slightly misunderstanding me. I'm not saying there's a duplicate ToC. I'm saying it shatters in the future as he goes into past and the ToC in the past automatically goes to him, since he's technically still chosen to weild it. Which is basically what you just said. Ganondorf and Zelda may or may not have gotten their respective pieces right away. Technically they're not the same Zelda and Ganondorf since this is a new timeline and the two haven't proven themselves yet. Hence why Zelda doesn't have her piece yet, unless it went to the King. But I also may be looking to deeply into this... Still the two other Triforce Pieces could've waited until Zelda and Ganondorf had proven themselves just as Link had. The pieces look a certian quality in a person when choosing a bearer. It could've been very well some time after Link got his piece, heck Ganondorf could've indeed gotten his piece right at the execution scene when he showed a great desire for power in his most desperate moment. Zelda and hert piece are up in the air.

I also said nothing about it being passed down lineages. Just that TP Link and and Zelda did not get their pieces because they weren't born yet. Zelda piece could've been passed down down her line but I doubt TP Link's was. We don't even know if the Link's are even related. Hell TP Link may have been born with the mark but did not actually get his piece until he went off to save Ilia and the kids and got sucked into the Twilight Realm. His extreme act of courage of flying straight into danger proved he was worthy of it's power and the ToC went to him in that scene. I think all of this only happened because the Triforce was still split.

Hmm I agree with your statement, and that's not a bad presentation of chronological events if I do say so myself. Still not sure if Triforce parts can be passed down because TP Link didn't really prove his worth but rather the ToC activated it's defenses by protecting Link in the body of a divine wolf from the netherealm Hyrule had become. Thanks btw, it helps to straighten the timeline of events out a bit.

Edit: Plus, I don't get why you all actually LIKE the idea that the gods are just haphazardly throwing the Triforce pieces around. Maybe it's just me who dislikes that idea.

Well, I think this sums up your perspective on the theory nicely; but you shouldn't argue against it purely because you dislike it, that's not ideal motivation to participate within Zelda Storyline and debates that follow simply result in endless bickering between either side refusing to back down; a lot of people are also guilty for jumping onto a topic they absolutely hate, turning it into a flame war when it could have been avoided. However, if you disagree with above theory instead then present a proper argument for reasons against divine pranksters.

I take every argument as it comes. You were twisting logic in a fanficcy kinda way, so I say you're bending the storyline to your whim. Also you were claiming random things as fact. o.o

Bullcrap. All I've done is post Zelda-oriented ideas and speculative threads in here, you have no right to class everything I say as 'fanfiction' purely because you disagree with my views and such arguments annoy you immensely. Bending storyline to my whim? What a load of nonsense. Let's use your wonderful logic and say Albert Einstien was bending Physics to his whim with his theory of relativity. Fucking nonsense Fyxe.

...What the fuck are you ON about? Degrade myself for speculation's sake? What the hell does that even mean? I was being sarcastic for the sake of nothing in particular. Maybe it was the vain hope of getting a sensible reply on the subject. But noooo.

Isn't it obvious? With that previous rambling you made yourself look pathetic basically. I've come to the conclusion (given the rudeness of that response) your presence so far has only served to disrupt this particular debate. If you can't stand said theory then kindly stop flaming in this topic for God's sake, you're acting so bloody childish recently. Either way I haven't got time to waste on you...

Edited by Ricky, 22 November 2007 - 06:26 AM.

[LionHarted]

We'd then have a scenario where both past and future versions of Ganon were trapped in both timelines and since the TP Sages foiled the warlord's invasion captured the dorf-man himself this child-timeline 'sealing' is rather unnecessary.

So is him getting the Triforce of Power at his execution because an artistic and really rather common metaphor is taken literally. Not to mention that people seem to think the sword that destroys darkness is needed to subdue it.

Edited by LionHarted, 22 November 2007 - 06:36 AM.

[Arturo]

Everyone, now, chill out. This is a videogame. I don't care if anyone bends logic or if you think you are right and everyone else is wrong. I don't want to see any other comments like this or else I'll start editting comments.

This not a suggestion. It's an order

How immature.

Edited by Arturo, 22 November 2007 - 09:08 AM.

[FDL]

Still didn't notice this; there was something inbetween maniacal laughter and yelling in pain when that Sage's Sword was pulled out leaving a mortal wound, at this point I assume Ganondorf knew he had been chosen and the Triforce of Power would keep him alive. We know that Ganondorf confesses this himself towards the end in Twilight Princess with Midna defying him as ruler blah blah blah. But anyway, no OMGZ smile unless there was bad animation involved.

When the Triforce shines on his hand he just smiles, he doesn't seem surprised at all. I don't think it matters that much but you were arguing that the Sages "expression"(despite the minor detail that they were wearing masks) was what proves that Ganondorf couldn't have had the ToP until his execution. And you still haven't explained to me why the Triforce would happen to appear to him at that exact time. What if he hadn't been executed? Would he just never be chosen? And you can't argue that anything you dislike was bad game design, either.

Stop being so smug. Thing is, I don't care enough and you care way too much. Relax, it's just a video game.

Actually, I don't care all that much about this. I'm just stuck at home at the moment so I came back to this forum. However, what I do care about is when people try to make me out to be a fool while they use arguments like "No, that doesn't count, it's a mistake of the designers."

Contrary to belief Zelda's Triforce of Wisdom isn't shown - though some here argue her younger self was much too naive and inexperienced to weld it yet so the ToW may have gone to the King which may point to everyone realising Link is telling the truth thus exposing Ganon's plot even more so. Regardless, Link is the only one who has a part of the Triforce until the Mirror Chamber scene, although I can't explain why ToC isn't shown in Majora's Mask but I'll save that one for later...

Neither Link's nor Zelda's is shown in the scene right before Link goes back, though. The Triforce of Courage being there is more important then Zelda's not being there, as it's not consistently there even when we know he has it.

Except we both know I'm not debating -your- theory. Duh. You were presenting argument(s) against my theory otherwise you wouldn't have quoted it in the first place, thereby causing me to defend it with possible reasons for, and deciding whether or not the "divine prank" being plausible in the series as fact.

So you believe I was arguing against it solely because I wanted to mess with you? It's theory against theory here. As for the "divine prank", shouldn't use the wording of "some sort of prank" instead, as we now have the original way it was written?

WTF. Dude, that's what I have been arguing from the start and in previous Twilight Princess story spoiler threads. You're really starting to take the piss FDL.

I mean that I'm against it. Which is why I said Dorf's magic wasn't neccessarily able to instantly destriy castles just because of the Triforce. If that were true, why didn't he just blow up the Arbiter's Grounds right when he got the ToP?

No, the whole intention of this final scene was to show this was their first meeting all over again, Link had gone back in time to set things right. Do me a favor and actually READ my beginning post.

The Triforce of Courage says otherwise. As well as several other things(like more people than just Zelda being aware of Link's heroic deeds).

Well, I think this sums up your perspective on the theory nicely; but you shouldn't argue against it purely because you dislike it, that's not ideal motivation to participate within Zelda Storyline and debates that follow simply result in endless bickering between either side refusing to back down; a lot of people are also guilty for jumping onto a topic they absolutely hate, turning it into a flame war when it could have been avoided. However, if you disagree with above theory instead then present a proper argument for reasons against divine pranksters.

I argue against it because I dislike the theory and I think that there is very little actual evidence for it. As well as the fact that I believe there is a good deal of things that make my theory work.

Everyone, now, chill out. This is a videogame. I don't care if anyone bends logic or if you think you are right and everyone else is wrong. I don't want to see any other comments like this or else I'll start editting comments.

This not a suggestion. It's an order

How immature.

I'm not sure what I did. The post Ricky did before this was more or less him implying Fyxe and I were blathering idiots, so I'm not sure why I shouldn't respond to that in some way.

[Fyxe]

I take every argument as it comes. You were twisting logic in a fanficcy kinda way, so I say you're bending the storyline to your whim. Also you were claiming random things as fact. o.o

Bullcrap. All I've done is post Zelda-oriented ideas and speculative threads in here, you have no right to class everything I say as 'fanfiction' purely because you disagree with my views and such arguments annoy you immensely. Bending storyline to my whim? What a load of nonsense. Let's use your wonderful logic and say Albert Einstien was bending Physics to his whim with his theory of relativity. Fucking nonsense Fyxe.

...What the fuck are you ON about? Degrade myself for speculation's sake? What the hell does that even mean? I was being sarcastic for the sake of nothing in particular. Maybe it was the vain hope of getting a sensible reply on the subject. But noooo.

Isn't it obvious? With that previous rambling you made yourself look pathetic basically. I've come to the conclusion (given the rudeness of that response) your presence so far has only served to disrupt this particular debate. If you can't stand said theory then kindly stop flaming in this topic for God's sake, you're acting so bloody childish recently. Either way I haven't got time to waste on you...

Relax, it's just a video game.

It's like some kind of wonderful irony.

You think I look pathetic, Ricky? Eheh. I'm not the one flaming, by the way. Seriously, you can pretend I'm some kind of demonic presence all you like but you're the one who appears to be throwing a bizarre hissy fit. Try treating me like a human being next time you respond to me, please. And that's all I've got to say on the matter.

Sorry Artuno, I couldn't just let those wild insults he threw at me hang there without some kind of reply. I'm done anyway, I'm not going to respond any further.

Edited by Fyxe, 22 November 2007 - 11:06 AM.

[SOAP]

Oh Fyxe... I thought have flinging insults was supposed to be our thing.

I feel so cheated on... *sniffles*

[Fyxe]

Oh Fyxe... I thought have flinging insults was supposed to be our thing.

I feel so cheated on... *sniffles*

XP Sowwie, I've moved on... I like you now. I know, it hurts. ;-;

[spunky-monkey]

So is him getting the Triforce of Power at his execution because an artistic and really rather common metaphor is taken literally. Not to mention that people seem to think the sword that destroys darkness is needed to subdue it.

At first glance I thought this scene was originally a series of unfortunate events but once the Sages mentioned 'divine prank' I reflected upon it and watched the cutscene again until the meaning sunk in, then realized Ganon getting the ToP was more than a coincidence; from a gameplay perspective definitely, because its de-facto as every Zelda game requires a villain.

When the Triforce shines on his hand he just smiles, he doesn't seem surprised at all. I don't think it matters that much but you were arguing that the Sages "expression"(despite the minor detail that they were wearing masks) was what proves that Ganondorf couldn't have had the ToP until his execution. And you still haven't explained to me why the Triforce would happen to appear to him at that exact time. What if he hadn't been executed? Would he just never be chosen?

Its obvious the Sage's reaction was pure horror because the guy they executed essentially came back to life; they could never predict or anticipate this wicked man would be one of the chosen ones destined to weld power. Denying the horrible timing of this incident is futile because this was clearly the storywriter's own intentions Ganon would get ToP and be banished at that specific moment for dramatic effect (also would serve to keep him alive throughout TP's story despite being impaled by the Sage's sword). If Ganondorf wasn't executed the outcome he would have been still chosen at some point or other; as SOAP said, when his desire for power was at its strongest the ToP comes; after all 'power' is all he knows and the Triforce part would eventually find its way to him regardless of his failed invasion and/or being brought to justice.

Actually, I don't care all that much about this.

I'm cool with that.

Neither Link's nor Zelda's is shown in the scene right before Link goes back, though. The Triforce of Courage being there is more important then Zelda's not being there, as it's not consistently there even when we know he has it.

Well Zelda isn't even in the Temple of Time so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here; not forgetting there's an indeterminable amount of time for each scene to take place; Link doesn't instantly arrive at the castle courtyard so what transpires inbetween then isn't crystal clear, and strengths the possible argument the Triforce split on its own accord and Link's ToC doesn't appear yet.

I mean that I'm against it. Which is why I said Dorf's magic wasn't neccessarily able to instantly destriy castles just because of the Triforce. If that were true, why didn't he just blow up the Arbiter's Grounds right when he got the ToP?

Arbiter's Grounds and TP's Ancient Sages aren't shown in OoT, so...

The Triforce of Courage says otherwise. As well as several other things(like more people than just Zelda being aware of Link's heroic deeds).

The Triforce in this child timeline inexplicably split without someone touching it; for the last time READ my post properly. In fact the ToC glowing can be taken that the child timeline events determine this version of Hyrule cannot, and will not share the future's fate thanks to Link's actions, nor will they result in the flooded Hyrule shown in TWW - that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I argue against it because I dislike the theory and I think that there is very little actual evidence for it. As well as the fact that I believe there is a good deal of things that make my theory work.

Or rather, you dislike the theory and completely ignored every shred of evidence given because you oppose the very idea of a divine prank. You're not very open-minded when dealing with speculative discussions.

Edited by Ricky, 23 November 2007 - 08:31 AM.

[LionHarted]

At first glance I thought this scene was originally a series of unfortunate events but once the Sages mentioned 'divine prank' I reflected upon it and watched the cutscene again until the meaning sunk in, then realized Ganon getting the ToP was more than a coincidence; from a gameplay perspective definitely, because its de-facto as every Zelda game requires a villain.

"Divine prank" MEANS "unfortunate event." =/

The Triforce in this child timeline inexplicably split without someone touching it; for the last time READ my post properly. In fact the ToC glowing can be taken that the child timeline events determine this version of Hyrule cannot, and will not share the future's fate thanks to Link's actions, nor will they result in the flooded Hyrule shown in TWW - that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

1) Your first sentence ought be flagged as opinion.
2) The ToC glowing at one point but not immediately after he returns to the past serves as proof for many that it appears someone did touch it.

[FDL]

I probably won't be able to respond that well at the moment, so if I say anything confusing just ask me to clarify...

At first glance I thought this scene was originally a series of unfortunate events but once the Sages mentioned 'divine prank' I reflected upon it and watched the cutscene again until the meaning sunk in, then realized Ganon getting the ToP was more than a coincidence; from a gameplay perspective definitely, because its de-facto as every Zelda game requires a villain.

As I said above, the way it seems to be phrased in the original Japanese script casts the truth of that idea in even more doubt. In fact, I'd say it's possible they're not even just talking about the Triforce.

Its obvious the Sage's reaction was pure horror because the guy they executed essentially came back to life; they could never predict or anticipate this wicked man would be one of the chosen ones destined to weld power. Denying the horrible timing of this incident is futile because this was clearly the storywriter's own intentions Ganon would get ToP and be banished at that specific moment for dramatic effect (also would serve to keep him alive throughout TP's story despite being impaled by the Sage's sword). If Ganondorf wasn't executed the outcome he would have been still chosen at some point or other; as SOAP said, when his desire for power was at its strongest the ToP comes; after all 'power' is all he knows and the Triforce part would eventually find its way to him regardless of his failed invasion and/or being brought to justice.

Thing is, nothing in the game actually says most of what you're claiming to be the truth. I mean, why don't you try to put it in the context of being related to OoT and TWW(story-wise, not timeline-wise). In OoT, we are told that the Triforce splits when someone with an unbalanced heart touches it. It does not say that the Triforce splits for the chosen ones, it does not say that the Triforce will float around for years before it goes to the chosen ones when they need it, it says only this:

If the heart of the one who holds the sacred triangle has all three forces in balance, that one will gain the True Force to govern all.
But, if that one's heart is not in balance, the Triforce will separate into three parts:
Power, Wisdom and Courage.
Only one part will remain for the one who touched the Triforce...the part representing the force that one most believes in.
If that one seeks the True Force, that one must acquire the two lost parts.
Those two parts will be held within others chosen by destiny, who will bear the Triforce mark on the backs of their hands.

You see, it says that the Triforce mark signifies that a person is chosen. TWW further proves this when Link only has the ToC as an item until he is chosen by the gods. With this quote in mind, we can clearly see that Ganondorf is chosen in at least three games as he has the mark on the back of his hand. Ganondorf being considered chosen does not hinge on him randomly getting the Triforce of Power. And I'm not sure where you and SOAP got the idea that the Triforce can split and still just be floating around waiting until the chosen one needs it the most.

Well Zelda isn't even in the Temple of Time so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here; not forgetting there's an indeterminable amount of time for each scene to take place; Link doesn't instantly arrive at the castle courtyard so what transpires inbetween then isn't crystal clear, and strengths the possible argument the Triforce split on its own accord and Link's ToC doesn't appear yet.

My point is that Link not having the ToC on the back of his hand when he first re-appears in the Temple of Time doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't have it yet.

Arbiter's Grounds and TP's Ancient Sages aren't shown in OoT, so...

No, I mean in the infamous scene in TP. He appears to be turning into his beast form, not blowing up the AG.

The Triforce in this child timeline inexplicably split without someone touching it; for the last time READ my post properly. In fact the ToC glowing can be taken that the child timeline events determine this version of Hyrule cannot, and will not share the future's fate thanks to Link's actions, nor will they result in the flooded Hyrule shown in TWW - that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I don't think that TWW was planned back then...

Or rather, you dislike the theory and completely ignored every shred of evidence given because you oppose the very idea of a divine prank. You're not very open-minded when dealing with speculative discussions.

No, I don't disregard the "evidence". I just think that the "prank" phrase and Zelda being in the courtyard are not sufficient enough to make me believe it. Still, some of you have raised some good points.

[MikePetersSucks]

"Divine Prank" is a phrase of speech that's used in the real world, too, and it pretty much means the same as "A twist of fate."

So shut the hell up.

[SOAP]

And that's why exactly? It's still the same Link who did everything before Zelda sent him into the past.

Presumably because he returned to the past, and because the Triforce was left in the future (obviously).

He doesn't have the Triforce of Courage when he leaves the Temple of Time.

That doesn't answer my question. Like I said before, the Triforce itself gets shattered as goes back in time, but he's still technically the chosen one. The Triforce of Courage of the past goes to him because he's already earned that title of being it's bearer. Whether or not it appeared on his hand in Temple of Time is a moot point, especially since his hands weren't being focused on anyways. I'd say the fact he has no Goron bracelet is a bigger indication of how far back in time he was sent.

[FDL]

No offense, but him not having the Goron Bracelet means absolutely nothing. You want to know why? It's because in Link's final scene in the future he has no Golden Gauntlets. Go ahead, beat OoT again and look at Link's arms closely. You will notice that Link has the Golden Gauntlets as he strikes Ganon and then does not when he's talking with Zelda. This situation clearly has no meaning so I'd say neither does the situation with the Goron Bracelet.

[spunky-monkey]

"Divine prank" MEANS "unfortunate event." =/

There's no such definition under "divine prank" anywhere, if you find a suitable one then please post it.

The ToC glowing at one point but not immediately after he returns to the past serves as proof for many that it appears someone did touch it.

Only Link can open the doorway to the Sacred Realm, we see him leaving the Temple of Time after Navi does so we've reached an impossibility thus your statement collapses in on itself.

As I said above, the way it seems to be phrased in the original Japanese script casts the truth of that idea in even more doubt. In fact, I'd say it's possible they're not even just talking about the Triforce.

Actually the Japanese script pretty much clarifies there was some kind of a divine prank, otherwise I wouldn't have brought up this issue.

Thing is, nothing in the game actually says most of what you're claiming to be the truth. I mean, why don't you try to put it in the context of being related to OoT and TWW(story-wise, not timeline-wise). In OoT, we are told that the Triforce splits when someone with an unbalanced heart touches it. It does not say that the Triforce splits for the chosen ones, it does not say that the Triforce will float around for years before it goes to the chosen ones when they need it, it says only this:

Err, your argument is becoming increasingly vague FDL. WHY are you quoting the Legend of the Sheikah anyway? Everything regarding the execution and altering of events in the split timeline theory was already confirmed by Eiji during an interview. And its common knowledge the Triforce splits up whenever it wants to (see ALttP, Ocarina of Time & Wind Waker for more). That's all there is to it...

My point is that Link not having the ToC on the back of his hand when he first re-appears in the Temple of Time doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't have it yet.

You are repeating yourself. Stop it at once.

No, I mean in the infamous scene in TP. He appears to be turning into his beast form, not blowing up the AG.

He blew up Hyrule Castle during the fight with Midna, so again what's your point? The Triforce of Power isn't in name only.

I don't think that TWW was planned back then...

What?

I'd say the fact he has no Goron bracelet is a bigger indication of how far back in time he was sent.

That's a good observation; unfortunately it's virtually nullified by another sprite-altered scene within the same ending. Nevertheless, I'd like to believe the lack of this bracelet shows Link went back to the day of their original meeting.

No offense, but him not having the Goron Bracelet means absolutely nothing. You want to know why? It's because in Link's final scene in the future he has no Golden Gauntlets. Go ahead, beat OoT again and look at Link's arms closely. You will notice that Link has the Golden Gauntlets as he strikes Ganon and then does not when he's talking with Zelda. This situation clearly has no meaning so I'd say neither does the situation with the Goron Bracelet.

Do you know why the designers left out the Golden Gauntlets? N64 character & item sprite design.

If it wasn't the moment when Zelda puts her hand on Link's would look silly as that gauntlet's red crystal obviously sticks out way too much. It also obscured the ToC during the final fight somewhat; although we still had to tolerate Link's cap going through his shield, which got fairly annoying after a while. >_> (I've known some players who lose their shields deliberately because of this)

Edited by Ricky, 24 November 2007 - 11:43 AM.

[MikePetersSucks]

There's no such definition under "divine prank" anywhere, if you find a suitable one then please post it.

So you have some sort of magical dictionary that lists the meaning of phrases of speech?

A wrong one, at that?

Actually the Japanese script pretty much clarifies there was some kind of a divine prank, otherwise I wouldn't have brought up this issue.

Not what I'm reading.

What?

Are you seriously trying to imply that TWW was planned while they were working on OOT?

That's it, there's no arguing with you anymore. You're delusional.

[SOAP]

No offense, but him not having the Goron Bracelet means absolutely nothing. You want to know why? It's because in Link's final scene in the future he has no Golden Gauntlets. Go ahead, beat OoT again and look at Link's arms closely. You will notice that Link has the Golden Gauntlets as he strikes Ganon and then does not when he's talking with Zelda. This situation clearly has no meaning so I'd say neither does the situation with the Goron Bracelet.

Okay, you say "no offense" but you claerly take on offensive tone? That's why I hate coming to these debates. I try to have an intelligent discussion nad everyone wants to be a condescending dick. It';s like a contest to see how retarded you can make the other person look. Well fine. I'm leaving. In fact I'm LA forever. I'm tired of this shit. Talk shit about me all you want. Go ahead and say I'm overeacting and just being a big baby. Just goes to prove my point. This will be my last post. I don't need this shit.

[Selena]

Okay.

You'll have to forgive my admin-self for not looking in sooner. I don't really like Zelda all that much (Shadow of the Colossus spoiled me), and just browse a couple threads once and a while. So I've otherwise ignored a large problem that's now become apparent. In multiple threads in multiple Zelda sections. I'm not going to single people out, because it seems very widespread and there are likely few innocents to be found. I simply don't understand how the Zelda sections - where you discuss a video game franchise - became as hostile as the Contro section. Where they discuss international war and abortions and religion. Both sections argue to no end about fairies, but both have very different opinions about what kind of fairies they're talking about. Getting up in arms about aborting a fetus is one thing, but fighting over an elf who occasionally doesn't even bother to wear pants? I hope everybody takes the time to reflect on how silly this all looks to an outsider. Have a good laugh. Then have a frown, because if a girl reads these threads, your chances of getting laid will drop by at least 70%. Girls spread gossip. Quickly.

So, for the love of all that is good, drop your disrespectful attitudes. There is no reason for you to post the way some of you do. Threads read like people forget their manners when they get into this section. It's unacceptable and will not be tolerated. I don't care if Jimmy called you a bad name while discussing Jar-Jar the Big Fish (or whoever it is). Unless people have a fetish with being suspended, it will all stop now. And you will post like the grown ups you are. I'll be watching future threads for continued snobbery and jackassness. Now, as I expect excuses, I will counter them now:

Excuse #1: "But HE acted that way first! I'm just defending myself!"
--Answer: This answer is only acceptable if the poster is five years old.

Excuse #2: "I was just being sarcastic when I called him a douchebag. It's not my fault you don't understand my humor. It's just dry. Like the Sahara."
--Answer: Stfu and learn some better jokes.

Excuse #3: "The devil made me do it."
--Answer: The Devil has always been open about his love affair with Madden. He doesn't play Zelda, and thus doesn't care about your arguments.

Excuse #4: "I'm only saying these things to him because he's OBVIOUSLY an idiot."
--Answer: Is it Picman? No? Then shut up.



Now. I invoke the "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" rule for all Zelda sections and threads. Or the anti-flame rule. Whatever you want to call it. And if you don't follow it from now on, I'm going to let Thumper kick you in the face with those big feet until your nose bleeds.



Look at those eyes. He means it.

[Reflectionist]

Did somebody say Snobbery and Jackassness??

I'm here!

>.>

<.<

Wait... this isn't Contro.

Edited by Reflectionist, 25 November 2007 - 12:02 AM.

[FDL]

Anyway...

Actually the Japanese script pretty much clarifies there was some kind of a divine prank, otherwise I wouldn't have brought up this issue.

How?

Err, your argument is becoming increasingly vague FDL. WHY are you quoting the Legend of the Sheikah anyway? Everything regarding the execution and altering of events in the split timeline theory was already confirmed by Eiji during an interview. And its common knowledge the Triforce splits up whenever it wants to (see ALttP, Ocarina of Time & Wind Waker for more). That's all there is to it...

My argument isn't really vague, all it is is that Ganondorf didn't get the ToP when you say he did. The quote I gave helps that. It tells us that the reason the Triforce splits isn't because it just feels like it, but because someone with an unbalanced heart touches it. That doesn't go along with your theory. As for the Aonuma interview, he says nothing about when Ganondorf got the Triforce so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up.

You are repeating yourself. Stop it at once.

I'm repeating myself because you're not responding to it.

He blew up Hyrule Castle during the fight with Midna, so again what's your point? The Triforce of Power isn't in name only.

He's had over a hundred years to gain control over it by then, so that really doesn't mean anything to me.

What?

You implied OoT's ending had something to with setting up TWW. MPS seems to agree.

That's a good observation; unfortunately it's virtually nullified by another sprite-altered scene within the same ending. Nevertheless, I'd like to believe the lack of this bracelet shows Link went back to the day of their original meeting.


Do you know why the designers left out the Golden Gauntlets? N64 character & item sprite design.

If it wasn't the moment when Zelda puts her hand on Link's would look silly as that gauntlet's red crystal obviously sticks out way too much. It also obscured the ToC during the final fight somewhat; although we still had to tolerate Link's cap going through his shield, which got fairly annoying after a while. >_> (I've known some players who lose their shields deliberately because of this)

But doesn't that probably mean that they programmed it so that Link didn't have his current strength upgrade and thus this made all strength upgrades disappear(considering they seem to be connected)?

Okay, you say "no offense" but you claerly take on offensive tone? That's why I hate coming to these debates. I try to have an intelligent discussion nad everyone wants to be a condescending dick. It';s like a contest to see how retarded you can make the other person look. Well fine. I'm leaving. In fact I'm LA forever. I'm tired of this shit. Talk shit about me all you want. Go ahead and say I'm overeacting and just being a big baby. Just goes to prove my point. This will be my last post. I don't need this shit.

No dude, I really didn't want to offend you, that's why I said no offense. I'm not sure if you'll read this but I really didn't mean any disrespect. I was just in debate mode and I'm somewhat condescending no matter what I'm arguing about so please pay it no mind.


As for Selena and Reflectionist, I'm not really taking it as seriously as you claim. I'm almost offended that you'd think I care more about this than war and religion.

Edited by Fierce Deity Link, 25 November 2007 - 10:20 AM.

[CID Farwin]

Okay.

You'll have to forgive my admin-self for not looking in sooner. I don't really like Zelda all that much (Shadow of the Colossus spoiled me), and just browse a couple threads once and a while. So I've otherwise ignored a large problem that's now become apparent. In multiple threads in multiple Zelda sections. I'm not going to single people out, because it seems very widespread and there are likely few innocents to be found. I simply don't understand how the Zelda sections - where you discuss a video game franchise - became as hostile as the Contro section. Where they discuss international war and abortions and religion. Both sections argue to no end about fairies, but both have very different opinions about what kind of fairies they're talking about. Getting up in arms about aborting a fetus is one thing, but fighting over an elf who occasionally doesn't even bother to wear pants? I hope everybody takes the time to reflect on how silly this all looks to an outsider. Have a good laugh. Then have a frown, because if a girl reads these threads, your chances of getting laid will drop by at least 70%. Girls spread gossip. Quickly.

So, for the love of all that is good, drop your disrespectful attitudes. There is no reason for you to post the way some of you do. Threads read like people forget their manners when they get into this section. It's unacceptable and will not be tolerated. I don't care if Jimmy called you a bad name while discussing Jar-Jar the Big Fish (or whoever it is). Unless people have a fetish with being suspended, it will all stop now. And you will post like the grown ups you are. I'll be watching future threads for continued snobbery and jackassness. Now, as I expect excuses, I will counter them now:

Excuse #1: "But HE acted that way first! I'm just defending myself!"
--Answer: This answer is only acceptable if the poster is five years old.

Excuse #2: "I was just being sarcastic when I called him a douchebag. It's not my fault you don't understand my humor. It's just dry. Like the Sahara."
--Answer: Stfu and learn some better jokes.

Excuse #3: "The devil made me do it."
--Answer: The Devil has always been open about his love affair with Madden. He doesn't play Zelda, and thus doesn't care about your arguments.

Excuse #4: "I'm only saying these things to him because he's OBVIOUSLY an idiot."
--Answer: Is it Picman? No? Then shut up.



Now. I invoke the "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" rule for all Zelda sections and threads. Or the anti-flame rule. Whatever you want to call it. And if you don't follow it from now on, I'm going to let Thumper kick you in the face with those big feet until your nose bleeds.



Look at those eyes. He means it.

Selena wins!

Flawless victory!

Admin-ality!

Is it Picman? No? Then shut up.

Going in my sig! That one sent me into

I was going to respond some, but I just don't have the heart after that.

Anyway, here's some vids so everyone can know what the heck they're talking about and STMPU!


I've got a plausible theory for the lack of Link's Goron bracelet; the developers made this scene before they thought of putting in the Goron Bracelet. The possibilities are endless when you take into account that it is a video game made by multiple people.



check 3:57 for 'OMGZ smile,' 4:02 for sages' surprise at Ganondorf's revival, and 4:15 for 'WHAT THE TRIFORCE"/'divine prank'

Some people say the sages' shock was at Ganondorf getting the Triforce, others say that it was because he was revived, and a war ensues...

As the last ashes of the flame war subside, the few survivors look at their ruined world and come to the realization: they were both right.

Edited by CID Farwin, 25 November 2007 - 02:01 PM.

[Selena]

As for Selena and Reflectionist, I'm not really taking it as seriously as you claim. I'm almost offended that you'd think I care more about this than war and religion.

While the war vs. Zelda bit was mostly exaggeration, the case is that these sections are still more hostile than Contro in many cases. I suggest you do take it seriously. Not only because I'm an admin making a request, but also because this section has been the source of many complaints over the last few months. As much, or more, than Contro has. To the point where even hardcore Zelda posters leave LA all together due to the bad attitudes demonstrated here. Or, at best, stop storylining because of it. So the hostile and negative behavior is not only against the rules, but it drives people away.

I was just in debate mode and I'm somewhat condescending no matter what I'm arguing about so please pay it no mind.

While I didn't think the post in question was all that offensive, I do wish to give you fair warning that no member of the staff will see that as a valid excuse for genuine condescending behavior.

[FDL]

While the war vs. Zelda bit was mostly exaggeration, the case is that these sections are still more hostile than Contro in many cases. I suggest you do take it seriously. Not only because I'm an admin making a request, but also because this section has been the source of many complaints over the last few months. As much, or more, than Contro has. To the point where even hardcore Zelda posters leave LA all together due to the bad attitudes demonstrated here. Or, at best, stop storylining because of it. So the hostile and negative behavior is not only against the rules, but it drives people away.

You misunderstand me, I mean I don't take the storyline of a video game as seriously as you claim. In fact, I normally don't really care all that much, but I've been sick for a while recently so I came back here to ease the boredom. As for the complaints, I really didn't know about that. As I mentioned already, I only came back here recently so I don't really have any knowledge of what's been going on here.

While I didn't think the post in question was all that offensive, I do wish to give you fair warning that no member of the staff will see that as a valid excuse for genuine condescending behavior.

For the post in question it certainly is. I was explaining myself to SOAP(if he reads this) because I didn't want be the cause of him leaving, not because I was worried someone was going to ban me or whatever. But certainly I understand that if I were to be really condescending to someone it would be inexcusable in the eyes of any mod/admin. Again, there seems to be a misunderstanding between you and I. Hopefully it can get straightened out.

Edited by Fierce Deity Link, 25 November 2007 - 03:13 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

Excuse #4: "I'm only saying these things to him because he's OBVIOUSLY an idiot."
--Answer: Is it Picman? No? Then shut up.

For the holy love of Mary, Mother of God, can I please sig that?

Edited by MikePetersSucks, 26 November 2007 - 01:54 PM.