106 replies to this topic

[SOAP]

Native to "Hyrule"? You mean the Lokomo people? What's to say they're native to this new hyrule?

Um, it's explicitly said in the only explanation of them we have as reference, which was linked above.

Sorry. I was going by the earlier link with the storyline.

[MikePetersSucks]

Yeah I just said I know that in response to someone else. But it does in away even while being on a seperate timeline.

In a more recent interview of the same person after the game came out (and therefore, the most accurate stance of his view), TP is "parallel" to TWW, in that as far as meta-time goes, they're happening simultaneously to each other.

also lol train people.

[ganonlord6000]

Uhmmm no! I can't believe that people actually think that skeleton knight in TP is an old Link. I forgot all about that speculation...it's a good thig I did!

Oh. Tri-Enforcer, the reason people think that the Hero's Sprit in TP is a previous Link is 1. his name, and 2. He actaually tells you that he was a previous hero.

So the natives of "Hyrule" are not the Hylians. This seems like a new mythos for a new land being build up here, it doesn't fit with other games from what we know so far... I mean, I'm combining that with the assumption that the Sacred Realm was connected to the old Hyrule, and everything else we know about what was destroyed, and what remains destroyed due to the king's wish.

It does seem that the spirit of the king's wish was kept. Even though the land is called Hyrule, it's only Hyrule in the sense that New York is a city in northern England.

And yet that doesn't prevent people from doing stuff like this:
Spirit Tracks Geography Speculation

Note that this is essentially just trying to prove that TMC and FSA happen after ST, which is pretty preposterous as it is.

The ST-LOZ map comparison is plausible. LOZ can easily be in a new Hyrule. I'm rewriting my timeline. Some of those ST screenshots with the soldiers wearing the tunic show that Link's tunic doesn't mean anything. The fact that Link was given the tunic in ST to blend in and he has the hat...I think this means that the hat is the sign of a hero. Not the tunic. I guess TMC is first is still very possible. I guess we will still have to wait four weeks until the game is released. After that, I will leave LA until I beat it.

[Person]

Uhmmm no! I can't believe that people actually think that skeleton knight in TP is an old Link. I forgot all about that speculation...it's a good thig I did!

Oh. Tri-Enforcer, the reason people think that the Hero's Sprit in TP is a previous Link is 1. his name, and 2. He actaually tells you that he was a previous hero.

So the natives of "Hyrule" are not the Hylians. This seems like a new mythos for a new land being build up here, it doesn't fit with other games from what we know so far... I mean, I'm combining that with the assumption that the Sacred Realm was connected to the old Hyrule, and everything else we know about what was destroyed, and what remains destroyed due to the king's wish.

It does seem that the spirit of the king's wish was kept. Even though the land is called Hyrule, it's only Hyrule in the sense that New York is a city in northern England.

And yet that doesn't prevent people from doing stuff like this:
Spirit Tracks Geography Speculation

Note that this is essentially just trying to prove that TMC and FSA happen after ST, which is pretty preposterous as it is.

The ST-LOZ map comparison is plausible. LOZ can easily be in a new Hyrule. I'm rewriting my timeline. Some of those ST screenshots with the soldiers wearing the tunic show that Link's tunic doesn't mean anything. The fact that Link was given the tunic in ST to blend in and he has the hat...I think this means that the hat is the sign of a hero. Not the tunic. I guess TMC is first is still very possible. I guess we will still have to wait four weeks until the game is released. After that, I will leave LA until I beat it.

The guards in ST likely wear the tunic because Link was their founder, and he certainly wasn't the first to wear it. TMC is still the clear origin story for the hat/tunic outfit, especially since the hero in the backstory doesn't wear one, so it's the clear intent to show "Why Link wears his hat."

[Raien]

LoZ/AoL can't be in ST's Hyrule because there's no Triforce. End. Of. Theory.

[Person]

LoZ/AoL can't be in ST's Hyrule because there's no Triforce. End. Of. Theory.

But they put some numbers on a vague map in the background of a trailer! It's totally confirmed! And there's mountains in the north and a coastline!!!1!

[Raien]

LoZ/AoL can't be in ST's Hyrule because there's no Triforce. End. Of. Theory.

But they put some numbers on a vague map in the background of a trailer! It's totally confirmed! And there's mountains in the north and a coastline!!!1!

Alright, you've convinced me. It makes much more sense to observe geography that was designed to fit with the top-down viewpoint, rather than an important plot point in the timeline. Timeline theorising is awesome!

Edited by Raien, 08 November 2009 - 06:52 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

Oh. Tri-Enforcer, the reason people think that the Hero's Sprit in TP is a previous Link is 1. his name, and 2. He actaually tells you that he was a previous hero.

That's really, really, really fucking weak evidence.

[Average Gamer]

Oh. Tri-Enforcer, the reason people think that the Hero's Sprit in TP is a previous Link is 1. his name, and 2. He actaually tells you that he was a previous hero.

That's really, really, really fucking weak evidence.

There's more to it than that. The Hero's Shade states that he was the/a hero, and we only hear of one hero throughout TP. The Light Spirits even state that the iconic green tunic was worn by that hero, and when Link meets the Resistance group in Telma's bar, they state that Link is apparently wearing the clothing of said hero.

Additionally, the Hero's Shade and TP Link are the only left-handed characters in the game, and the footwork of the Hero's Shade is reminiscent of OoT/MM Link. Some people have also said that they looked into the game and discovered that the Hero's Shade's voice is OoT Link's voice run through a synthesizer or something.

LoZ/AoL can't be in ST's Hyrule because there's no Triforce. End. Of. Theory.

Though it is no longer the royal crest, the Triforce is supposedly on Zelda's dress.

However, from what we've seen and heard so far, the world appears to be technologically advanced. In contrast, LoZ and AoL seem to have been in a period similar to the Dark Ages. I even recall LoZ's manual saying that the world wasn't very advanced.

Edited by Average Gamer, 08 November 2009 - 07:57 PM.

[Raien]

Though it is no longer the royal crest, the Triforce is supposedly on Zelda's dress.

Honestly, the royal crest is just reinforcing evidence for the main proof, which is TWW's ending. The Triforce clearly did not follow Link and Zelda to a new land.

[Average Gamer]

I thought that you were also saying that there was no knowledge of the Triforce in ST. While I agree that the Triforce didn't follow Link and Tetra to the new land, the Triforce is still shown on Zelda's dress in ST. Whether that has any importance still remains to be seen.

Edited by Average Gamer, 08 November 2009 - 08:20 PM.

[SOAP]

I think it's more fitting to place the FS games after ST. Knowledge of the Triforce is either lost or just really obscure. Force Gems/Light Force appear to be rising in importance. The only problem is FSA which seems to heavily allude to ALttP, with the simmilar geography as well as themes, concepts, and gungeons taken directly from ALttP. However as someone said earlier: simmilar=/=same.

[Sir Turtlelot]

I think it's more fitting to place the FS games after ST. Knowledge of the Triforce is either lost or just really obscure. Force Gems/Light Force appear to be rising in importance. The only problem is FSA which seems to heavily allude to ALttP, with the simmilar geography as well as themes, concepts, and gungeons taken directly from ALttP. However as someone said earlier: simmilar=/=same.

I agree with SOAP on this.

Plus it's always bothered me how the Master Sword and Four Sword just seem non-existent in the games they aren't featured in...

[Raien]

I think it's more fitting to place the FS games after ST. Knowledge of the Triforce is either lost or just really obscure. Force Gems/Light Force appear to be rising in importance. The only problem is FSA which seems to heavily allude to ALttP, with the simmilar geography as well as themes, concepts, and gungeons taken directly from ALttP. However as someone said earlier: simmilar=/=same.

You've pretty much learned my stance on FSA > ALttP. Considering that Nintendo recycles their characters, items and general symbols an awful lot, showing progression from one game to another is the only reliable way to establish timeline connections. But since there is almost no real progression from FSA to ALttP, there is no reliable way to establish a timeline connection between them.

However, the same thing could potentially be said for ST. If ST doesn't show progression to the FS Trilogy, then there is no reliable timeline connection between the games. And as ideal as the placement would be, I could not endorse it as a probable developer-intended placement.

[Erimgard]

Raien, I'm not by any means saying aLttP has to come on the adult timeline, or that ST confirms such a thing. I'm just saying that a shift in the Royal Family's interest doesn't necessarily prevent it. I tend to avoid theorizing about a game we know very little about, but honestly, I'm under the impression that ST will force aLttP onto the child timeline.

[SOAP]

I think it's more fitting to place the FS games after ST. Knowledge of the Triforce is either lost or just really obscure. Force Gems/Light Force appear to be rising in importance. The only problem is FSA which seems to heavily allude to ALttP, with the simmilar geography as well as themes, concepts, and gungeons taken directly from ALttP. However as someone said earlier: simmilar=/=same.

You've pretty much learned my stance on FSA > ALttP. Considering that Nintendo recycles their characters, items and general symbols an awful lot, showing progression from one game to another is the only reliable way to establish timeline connections. But since there is almost no real progression from FSA to ALttP, there is no reliable way to establish a timeline connection between them.

However, the same thing could potentially be said for ST. If ST doesn't show progression to the FS Trilogy, then there is no reliable timeline connection between the games. And as ideal as the placement would be, I could not endorse it as a probable developer-intended placement.

that's why I'm holding out on making any solid theories till after I've played the game (or get spoiled to death beforehand). It could be the creators' way of giving the FS games a more definitive placement. But it could also turn out that the developers want to take the series in a new fresh direction that has nothing to do with Triforces OR Force Gems. The latter is more likely to turn out to be the case.

However. I'm confident that my speculation about st possibly leading into the FS games might not be too far off. PH, already shows some progression by foreshadowing the Force Gems and the Light Force manifested in Hyrule's royal women. The ocean King's life force physically manifested as what appeared to be force gems and Tetra had life force energy that attracted Bellum much in the same way Vaati was attracted to Zelda. To me this could be precursors to what is later to come.

Edited by SOAP, 08 November 2009 - 09:51 PM.

[Erimgard]

Also, at someone from awhile back (MPS I think?)
Vaati is mistakingly believed to be the King of Darkness. The Trident inscription makes it seem that the title is reserved for the bearer of the Trident though: Ganon.

I believe one of the Maidens even flat-out says "Vaati is not the King of Darkness"

[Impossible]

LoZ/AoL can't be in ST's Hyrule because there's no Triforce. End. Of. Theory.

But they put some numbers on a vague map in the background of a trailer! It's totally confirmed! And there's mountains in the north and a coastline!!!1!

Thanks for this, it sums up exactly why that geography stuff on ZU and ZI is so fucking facepalm-inducing. HOW ABOUT THE FACT THAT OOT AND ALTTP HAVE NEAR-IDENTICAL MAPS, YOU GODDAMN BIASED IDIOTS WHO CAN ONLY SEE EVIDENCE FROM A PREDETERMINED POINT OF VIEW.

[Erimgard]

Meh, I'm a tad annoyed at the geography comparisons myself, but don't take it too seriously. The thread has "LOL" in the title after all...

[Person]

LoZ/AoL can't be in ST's Hyrule because there's no Triforce. End. Of. Theory.

But they put some numbers on a vague map in the background of a trailer! It's totally confirmed! And there's mountains in the north and a coastline!!!1!

Thanks for this, it sums up exactly why that geography stuff on ZU and ZI is so fucking facepalm-inducing. HOW ABOUT THE FACT THAT OOT AND ALTTP HAVE NEAR-IDENTICAL MAPS, YOU GODDAMN BIASED IDIOTS WHO CAN ONLY SEE EVIDENCE FROM A PREDETERMINED POINT OF VIEW.

This geography theorizing also reminds me of a time when people were trying to argue that PH's map was a flooded AoL map because they both had mazes.

Really, when you have a geography that shifts every freaking game, trying to argue timeline placements based on an in-game map is ultimately futile. I've even seen mock-ups of Labrynna and Holodrum over the AoL map. If Termina wasn't a parallel dimension, people would probably be doing this to its map as well.

[Erimgard]

LoZ/AoL can't be in ST's Hyrule because there's no Triforce. End. Of. Theory.

But they put some numbers on a vague map in the background of a trailer! It's totally confirmed! And there's mountains in the north and a coastline!!!1!

Thanks for this, it sums up exactly why that geography stuff on ZU and ZI is so fucking facepalm-inducing. HOW ABOUT THE FACT THAT OOT AND ALTTP HAVE NEAR-IDENTICAL MAPS, YOU GODDAMN BIASED IDIOTS WHO CAN ONLY SEE EVIDENCE FROM A PREDETERMINED POINT OF VIEW.

This geography theorizing also reminds me of a time when people were trying to argue that PH's map was a flooded AoL map because they both had mazes.

Really, when you have a geography that shifts every freaking game, trying to argue timeline placements based on an in-game map is ultimately futile. I've even seen mock-ups of Labrynna and Holodrum over the AoL map. If Termina wasn't a parallel dimension, people would probably be doing this to its map as well.

Oh, they still do. Trust me.

[Jarsh]

^
Not only that, but some refuse to believe it's a parallel dimension and believe it to be west of Hyrule (thus the coast). Now, I realize that this post would probably be better in that kookie theories thread, but oh well.

[Person]

^
Not only that, but some refuse to believe it's a parallel dimension and believe it to be west of Hyrule (thus the coast). Now, I realize that this post would probably be better in that kookie theories thread, but oh well.

Okay, then. All discussion of map-superimposing and such should be conducted there.

[CID Farwin]

I guess this means I'm going to be staying away from the Zelda sections here for a month or so.

[Fin]

The Spanish site gives the name Mallard to the Demon King. Of course, they also call Anjean "Radiel", but it at least suggests that the demon king is indeed a new villain. And a duck.

EDIT: Never mind, there's already a thread about that.

Edited by Finbarr, 09 November 2009 - 12:41 AM.

[SOAP]

The Spanish site gives the name Mallard to the Demon King. Of course, they also call Anjean "Radiel", but it at least suggests that the demon king is indeed a new villain. And a duck.

EDIT: Never mind, there's already a thread about that.

Mallard? That's a funny name for Sapnish translation. I can't image how spanish speaking people would pronounce it. maybe Majh-Jard or Mai-Jard. Aturo, help me ou here.

[Fin]

Apparently it's a type of train.

[MikePetersSucks]

There's more to it than that. The Hero's Shade states that he was the/a hero, and we only hear of one hero throughout TP. The Light Spirits even state that the iconic green tunic was worn by that hero, and when Link meets the Resistance group in Telma's bar, they state that Link is apparently wearing the clothing of said hero.

Additionally, the Hero's Shade and TP Link are the only left-handed characters in the game, and the footwork of the Hero's Shade is reminiscent of OoT/MM Link. Some people have also said that they looked into the game and discovered that the Hero's Shade's voice is OoT Link's voice run through a synthesizer or something.

"A hero", as in more than one. As in Hyrule has had a lot. He never calls himself a Legendary Hero, or anything.

And the Hero's Shade has to be left-handed by necessity of being Link's teacher, so irrelevant.

Footwork means nothing, it's standard swordsmen footing.

I know for a fact the synthesizer thing is bullshit, I remember reading a thread that debunked it.

Also, at someone from awhile back (MPS I think?)
Vaati is mistakingly believed to be the King of Darkness. The Trident inscription makes it seem that the title is reserved for the bearer of the Trident though: Ganon.

I believe one of the Maidens even flat-out says "Vaati is not the King of Darkness"

See above. The fact that people mistake him the title proves that he's eligible for it. The only reason he doesn't have the title is because Ganon is around, otherwise the title's pretty much up for grabs.

[Average Gamer]

"A hero", as in more than one. As in Hyrule has had a lot. He never calls himself a Legendary Hero, or anything.

Yet TP only refers to one real hero over the course of the game, and that's OoT/MM Link. Also, didn't you say that, because Japanese doesn't distinguish between "The" and "A", the Hero's Shade could also be "The hero"?

And the Hero's Shade has to be left-handed by necessity of being Link's teacher, so irrelevant.

Being left-handed is a trait pretty much only associated with the Links. The only other person in the series who was left-handed was Link's uncle in ALttP, and he apparently didn't have the stuff of heroes, considering that he died in the basement of Hyrule Castle.

Footwork means nothing, it's standard swordsmen footing.

The Hero's Shade and OoT Link are supposedly the only characters with that type of footwork though.

I know for a fact the synthesizer thing is bullshit, I remember reading a thread that debunked it.

Do you have a link?

To sum up my thoughts, with what TP shows us, the Hero's Shade is apparently either OoT/MM Link or a totally random dude who decided to help out TP Link but not OoT/MM Link. Between the two options, I think that the former is more likely.

For the sake of this thread, let's stop this discussion about the Hero's Shade.

Edited by Average Gamer, 09 November 2009 - 05:16 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

Yet TP only refers to one real hero over the course of the game, and that's OoT/MM Link. Also, didn't you say that, because Japanese doesn't distinguish between "The" and "A", the Hero's Shade could also be "The hero"?

There are indications for special pronouns though, which are equivalent to "The Hero" and "a hero" for sake of English discussion. The Hero's Shade doesn't possess this modifier.

Being left-handed is a trait pretty much only associated with the Links. The only other person in the series who was left-handed was Link's uncle in ALttP, and he apparently didn't have the stuff of heroes, considering that he died in the basement of Hyrule Castle.

The guys who teach you special moves in TMC are left-handed too, according to their sprites. Again, it's common practice for a teacher to act with the same hand as their student. It's easier to mirror.

The Hero's Shade and OoT Link are supposedly the only characters with that type of footwork though.

Says who? It's goddamn footing, and I highly doubt Link is the only person to have ever used it.

Do you have a link?

No, sorry. Someone linked me to it, and I never bookmarked it. But you don't seem to have a link over the voice synthing thing, so yea, let's just drop it.