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#31 Impossible

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 01:47 AM

I love the "we were right all along" posts flooding ZU, even though:

1. Most people argued for some ridiculous baseless bullshit like the Deku Tree creating Hyrule, or the old Hyrule being restored - which is necessary for a lot of games to take place. It was generally accepted that Link and Tetra finding a new Hyrule wouldn't explain that much, and people who argued the other theories were, of course, wrong. Link and Tetra finding a new land was always possible - and always what I said was the most likely and the only plausible outcome - because unlike the other crap, it was mentioned in the story. It seems like people are already completely disregarding the numerous continuity issues and things that require all the previous Hyrule games to be set in the same Hyrule (as intended), and just acting like the whole fanfic abyss between TWW and ALttP is magically gone.

2. This is nothing like the split timeline confirmation. Nobody was "right all along" except the people who said that the idea of restoring the old Hyrule was bullshit. There WAS no Hyrule after TWW until ST, and it was fanfiction to say otherwise. For that matter, nobody here has so far been wrong about anything except that Link and Tetra shouldn't call the new land Hyrule - and arguably, that's Nintendo's mistake, and I still disagree with it. However, the claim has always been that it was fanfiction to claim that games were set in Hyrule after TWW, without any games indicating the possibility. That hasn't been disproved, and in no way has anything argued by people here been wrong - as nobody ever denied the possibility that Nintendo would, in the FUTURE, make games after TWW/PH. We can't predict the future, and we didn't try to, so where's this crap about anyone's theories being vindicated or disproved?

3. On top of that, regarding distinctions as far "official confirmation" (a la the split confirmation) goes, the only game after PH right now is ST. This has no real bearing on other games yet, and it's just idiotic jumping to conclusions to say otherwise - the same thing people did when they made huge assumptions before TP came out, and ended up being wrong. What the hell is with the 5 pages of people declaring themselves to be right and stating connections to TMC or FSA or ALttP as though they're facts? None of this has been confirmed, and there are already contradictions (like the Triforce-less crest). And at Erimgard's suggestion: If this sets up the IW, then OoT is not the IW. If that's the case, what the fuck is the point in putting ALttP on the Adult Timeline? It's clearly still more consistent and less contradictory for it to be on the Child Timeline, especially given hints in TP, and the fact that all previous games were made to be set in a single Hyrule, with not a single mention of a new one. What I always said was that if they were going to make a new Hyrule, they would have fucking hinted at this having occurred in TMC or FSA, and they did no such thing - it's now ST that is doing it, and this doesn't magically move all the other games.

I do kind of think Nintendo are idiots and ignoring the intent behind TWW by calling the new land Hyrule, though. I'm doubtful that was decided by the same person who wrote TWW's ending. It's a minor thing, though.

Oh, but as far as predictions do go... I know I was actually completely right about ST. This is exactly what I thought already regarding its timeline placement and its setting in a new land (not a revived or reconnected old Hyrule). It seems like I was right about the reasons for it, too... Stupid PH sequel. Thinking that Nintendo would be stupid to make a game after TWW/PH isn't the same as thinking they wouldn't, though - Nintendo have been incredibly dumb regarding the timeline many times, and I think this is another issue born out of the fact that different people work on each game and have different ideas about the story. And actually, with Nintendo's stupidity, I wouldn't put it past them for games to be retconned and moved around between timelines AGAIN by this. Unlike with the split, though, there would be no evidence as to what the timeline was prior to ST changing things. While the split was a consequence of OoT, indicated by MM, and was stated by Aonuma as of TWW.

Edited by Impossible, 07 November 2009 - 02:47 AM.


#32 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 02:08 AM

Until I see screenshots reading "This land is Hyrule", I'm not believing it, for the same reason I'm doubting that they actually killed off Zelda, even if only temporarily. Shenanigans!

Also, lol, Vaati was also called a demon king/king of darkness you gaiz.

#33 Masamune

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 02:30 AM

Who cares if they name it Hyrule? King Daphnes was kind of a dick anyways.

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#34 Fin

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 03:13 AM

I hope this demon king is a new recurring antagonist for the Wind Waker timeline games.

#35 Person

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 03:46 AM

I hope this demon king is a new recurring antagonist for the Wind Waker timeline games.

I bet he's the nasty train in the trailer. It kind of looks like a Nosepass.

And to those who were "right all along," most of their theories involved the un-flooding of Old Hyrule, which Spirit Tracks completely shuts down. This New Hyrule also seems sufficiently different from the old one to prevent the old games from happening in this timeline. It stretches credulity to think that the people of ALttP would have records of the creation of the world, but not the Great Flood, war with the Demon King, foundation of the New Hyrule, etc.

This just seems to confirm that Nintendo is taking the post-TWW timeline games in a new direction. The little niggle of the land being named Hyrule doesn't really confirm or deny anybody's theories. It only disproves that bullcrap Deku Tree un-flooding theory. What we have here is a new land with a new history and a new mythology that doesn't lend itself to an Imprisoning War or Four Swords series set-up.

The fact that the crest of Hyrule got changed is also a pretty strong indicator that this isn't the same Hyrule as the old games. Why would the crest get changed in ST, and then suddenly be back to the way it was before in FSA?

Edited by Person, 07 November 2009 - 03:53 AM.


#36 Gibdo Master

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 04:53 AM

Ign's rewind is actually very informative, if a bit spoilerish.

The triangles are "Tears of Light".

Edited by Gibdo Master, 07 November 2009 - 04:53 AM.


#37 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 06:25 AM

Geez it's dead around here, this place really fell off! Also, I'm cracking up laughing at all the noobs and their timeline theories, boy do I remember wasting so much time debating with folks on here. Well I just thought I'd come back, since a new Zelda game is coming out with a so far decent story behind it.

For the first time we have three consecutive Zelda games that directly relate to each other (TWW, PH, and now ST) and makes sense. It looks like the Hero of Wind only got two games (TWW and PH) like so many other Links. We got yet another completely new Link on board (no pun intended) here in Spirit Tracks. Now I see why the subtitle is called 'Spirit Tracks' instead of just 'Tracks'...lol.

Ign's rewind is actually very informative, if a bit spoilerish.

The triangles are "Tears of Light".


Yep that's right. Tears of Light are indeed used in Spirit Tracks, and appear to have a different use. The last and only game to have Tears of Light was...I'm sure you all know what game that was.

I don't want to say there is a connection, since it would be a stretch and something I don't feel like pondering.

Also, the old lady who people here say looks like Tetra is a sage name Anjean (spelling?). Considering Zelda is known for aliases (Tetra and Sheik) I wouldn't discount that lady being Tetra/Old Zelda. Yeah wouldn't that be something, two legendary Zeldas in the same game?! I watched a video and noticed that she has similar facial expressions to Tetra (like her wink).

#38 Masamune

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 09:52 AM

For the first time we have three consecutive Zelda games that directly relate to each other (TWW, PH, and now ST) and makes sense. It looks like the Hero of Wind only got two games (TWW and PH) like so many other Links. We got yet another completely new Link on board (no pun intended) here in Spirit Tracks. Now I see why the subtitle is called 'Spirit Tracks' instead of just 'Tracks'...lol.


Four games, really, if you throw Ocarina of Time in there too. For the Zelda series, that's impressive.

#39 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 02:28 PM

I bet he's the nasty train in the trailer. It kind of looks like a Nosepass.


Can't be. The villain's plan is to revive him, which can't happen as long as the Spirit Tracks are in place. Not only does that already break the common premise of the story, and make no sense since you can't have a train without a railroad....they wouldn't show us the final boss this early.

#40 Wolf O'Donnell

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 02:37 PM

Wait a minute! I just went back through the material and came across the most terrifying thing ever?

Chancellor Cole?

Well, at least they didn't go with Old King Coal.

#41 ganonlord6000

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 03:02 PM

I love the "we were right all along" posts flooding ZU, even though:

1. Most people argued for some ridiculous baseless bullshit like the Deku Tree creating Hyrule, or the old Hyrule being restored - which is necessary for a lot of games to take place. It was generally accepted that Link and Tetra finding a new Hyrule wouldn't explain that much, and people who argued the other theories were, of course, wrong. Link and Tetra finding a new land was always possible - and always what I said was the most likely and the only plausible outcome - because unlike the other crap, it was mentioned in the story. It seems like people are already completely disregarding the numerous continuity issues and things that require all the previous Hyrule games to be set in the same Hyrule (as intended), and just acting like the whole fanfic abyss between TWW and ALttP is magically gone.

2. This is nothing like the split timeline confirmation. Nobody was "right all along" except the people who said that the idea of restoring the old Hyrule was bullshit. There WAS no Hyrule after TWW until ST, and it was fanfiction to say otherwise. For that matter, nobody here has so far been wrong about anything except that Link and Tetra shouldn't call the new land Hyrule - and arguably, that's Nintendo's mistake, and I still disagree with it. However, the claim has always been that it was fanfiction to claim that games were set in Hyrule after TWW, without any games indicating the possibility. That hasn't been disproved, and in no way has anything argued by people here been wrong - as nobody ever denied the possibility that Nintendo would, in the FUTURE, make games after TWW/PH. We can't predict the future, and we didn't try to, so where's this crap about anyone's theories being vindicated or disproved?

3. On top of that, regarding distinctions as far "official confirmation" (a la the split confirmation) goes, the only game after PH right now is ST. This has no real bearing on other games yet, and it's just idiotic jumping to conclusions to say otherwise - the same thing people did when they made huge assumptions before TP came out, and ended up being wrong. What the hell is with the 5 pages of people declaring themselves to be right and stating connections to TMC or FSA or ALttP as though they're facts? None of this has been confirmed, and there are already contradictions (like the Triforce-less crest). And at Erimgard's suggestion: If this sets up the IW, then OoT is not the IW. If that's the case, what the fuck is the point in putting ALttP on the Adult Timeline? It's clearly still more consistent and less contradictory for it to be on the Child Timeline, especially given hints in TP, and the fact that all previous games were made to be set in a single Hyrule, with not a single mention of a new one. What I always said was that if they were going to make a new Hyrule, they would have fucking hinted at this having occurred in TMC or FSA, and they did no such thing - it's now ST that is doing it, and this doesn't magically move all the other games.

I do kind of think Nintendo are idiots and ignoring the intent behind TWW by calling the new land Hyrule, though. I'm doubtful that was decided by the same person who wrote TWW's ending. It's a minor thing, though.

Oh, but as far as predictions do go... I know I was actually completely right about ST. This is exactly what I thought already regarding its timeline placement and its setting in a new land (not a revived or reconnected old Hyrule). It seems like I was right about the reasons for it, too... Stupid PH sequel. Thinking that Nintendo would be stupid to make a game after TWW/PH isn't the same as thinking they wouldn't, though - Nintendo have been incredibly dumb regarding the timeline many times, and I think this is another issue born out of the fact that different people work on each game and have different ideas about the story. And actually, with Nintendo's stupidity, I wouldn't put it past them for games to be retconned and moved around between timelines AGAIN by this. Unlike with the split, though, there would be no evidence as to what the timeline was prior to ST changing things. While the split was a consequence of OoT, indicated by MM, and was stated by Aonuma as of TWW.

I don't think that any of this prevents ALTTP from being on the CT. TP has far more connections to it than any other game in the series besides OOT.

Also, lol, Vaati was also called a demon king/king of darkness you gaiz.

When has Vaati ever been called demon king? I recall him being called either Wind mage or Dark Sorcerer. Unless you are refering to FSA when they thought that Vaati was the Demon King. That was never Vaati's actual title. Only Ganon has been called that. TWW's ending is being torn apart. I guess we can call TWW, PH, and ST the TWW trilogy. We already have another trilogy of games in the series.

Edited by ganonlord6000, 07 November 2009 - 03:19 PM.


#42 Average Gamer

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 03:43 PM

Also, lol, Vaati was also called a demon king/king of darkness you gaiz.

When has Vaati ever been called demon king? I recall him being called either Wind mage or Dark Sorcerer. Unless you are refering to FSA when they thought that Vaati was the Demon King. That was never Vaati's actual title. Only Ganon has been called that.


The fact that they had no problem with Vaati holding the title shows that it isn't necessarily exclusive to Ganondorf.

Wait a minute! I just went back through the material and came across the most terrifying thing ever?

Chancellor Cole?

Well, at least they didn't go with Old King Coal.


He probably wants Zelda dead so that he can become Old King Cole. Heck, if she's actually dead in ST or otherwise incapacitated, he may very well become king, and I wouldn't be surprised if he just so happened to be an old man either.

I mostly agree with Impossible's post. None of us ever said that Nintendo making a "New Hyrule" was completely impossible, just that a "New Hyrule" was incredibly implausible unless a game came out that featured one. Also, like Impossible said, this isn't equivalent to the Split Timeline confirmation.

Edited by Average Gamer, 07 November 2009 - 04:16 PM.


#43 ganonlord6000

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 03:47 PM

Also, the old lady who people here say looks like Tetra is a sage name Anjean (spelling?). Considering Zelda is known for aliases (Tetra and Sheik) I wouldn't discount that lady being Tetra/Old Zelda. Yeah wouldn't that be something, two legendary Zeldas in the same game?! I watched a video and noticed that she has similar facial expressions to Tetra (like her wink).

Why not? We already have a game that possibly has two Links in it (an old one and the current one)(TP)

#44 Impossible

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 04:23 PM

Wait a minute! I just went back through the material and came across the most terrifying thing ever?

Chancellor Cole?

Well, at least they didn't go with Old King Coal.


My favourite part is when Link and Zelda are run down by the unstoppable might of the COLE TRAIN!

#45 Average Gamer

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 04:26 PM

Wait a minute! I just went back through the material and came across the most terrifying thing ever?

Chancellor Cole?

Well, at least they didn't go with Old King Coal.


My favourite part is when Link and Zelda are run down by the unstoppable might of the COLE TRAIN!


Legend of Zelda and Gears of War crossover confirmed.

#46 Fin

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 05:11 PM

...

I think the Thomas the Tank Engine stuff has been outdone.

Nintendo, I tip my hat off to you.

#47 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 05:12 PM

Also, the old lady who people here say looks like Tetra is a sage name Anjean (spelling?). Considering Zelda is known for aliases (Tetra and Sheik) I wouldn't discount that lady being Tetra/Old Zelda. Yeah wouldn't that be something, two legendary Zeldas in the same game?! I watched a video and noticed that she has similar facial expressions to Tetra (like her wink).

Why not? We already have a game that possibly has two Links in it (an old one and the current one)(TP)


Uhmmm no! I can't believe that people actually think that skeleton knight in TP is an old Link. I forgot all about that speculation...it's a good thig I did!

@Average Gamer

"I mostly agree with Impossible's post. None of us ever said that Nintendo making a "New Hyrule" was completely impossible, just that a "New Hyrule" was incredibly implausible unless a game came out that featured one. Also, like Impossible said, this isn't equivalent to the Split Timeline confirmation."

This. I always believed that Wind Waker Link and Tetra would find a new home. I think for most people it was a matter of how, when and what it would be called. [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of misguided people thought Old Hyrule would be resubmerge or the deku tree sprouts would create land (as stated by the Deku Tree itself). Whatever land those sprouts will create I don't know (and technically not possible, but this is a game), but it's not New Hyrule.

As far as certain prior Zelda games taking place in this New Hyrule, I really can't see it until I've played and finished Spirit Tracks. I mean the mapin ST looks nothing like Hyrule maps we've seen in the past. Also, no of the old loaction like Lake Hylia, Deat Mountain, etc can't just conveniently be in New Hyrule. That's whyI doubt prior Zeldas will later take place on this new land, sincmany of those game featured such locations.

The only strange thing is the inclusion of Light Tears, which were used in TP. TP happening in the land of New Hyrule? Impossible, considering TP take place between OOT and TWW and is in Old Hyrule. For now, I will just dismiss the inclusions of Light Tears as a coincidence.

#48 Person

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 05:19 PM

The only strange thing is the inclusion of Light Tears, which were used in TP. TP happening in the land of New Hyrule? Impossible, considering TP take place between OOT and TWW and is in Old Hyrule. For now, I will just dismiss the inclusions of Light Tears as a coincidence.


TP actually takes place on a separate timeline from TWW, not in between OOT and TWW.

#49 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 05:33 PM

The only strange thing is the inclusion of Light Tears, which were used in TP. TP happening in the land of New Hyrule? Impossible, considering TP take place between OOT and TWW and is in Old Hyrule. For now, I will just dismiss the inclusions of Light Tears as a coincidence.


TP actually takes place on a separate timeline from TWW, not in between OOT and TWW.


Yes it does, but it's after OOT. I was just saying it the way that Aonuma said it in an interview before TP came out. However, I also believe TWW is on a seperate timeline from TP, so I agree with you there.

As I was saying, in case people try to say that TP is linked to ST due to both games having Light Tears would be making stretch of an argument (although no one has brought this up, so lets hope it stays that way). Also I don't see any other Zelda game fitting into this New Hyrule for reasons I already explained.

#50 Fin

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 05:58 PM

Uhmmm no! I can't believe that people actually think that skeleton knight in TP is an old Link. I forgot all about that speculation...it's a good thig I did!


Is that really so outlandish? It makes perfect sense to me.

The only strange thing is the inclusion of Light Tears, which were used in TP. TP happening in the land of New Hyrule? Impossible, considering TP take place between OOT and TWW and is in Old Hyrule. For now, I will just dismiss the inclusions of Light Tears as a coincidence.


TP takes place on the other timeline, parallel to WW...

#51 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 06:57 PM

Uhmmm no! I can't believe that people actually think that skeleton knight in TP is an old Link. I forgot all about that speculation...it's a good thig I did!


Is that really so outlandish? It makes perfect sense to me.

The only strange thing is the inclusion of Light Tears, which were used in TP. TP happening in the land of New Hyrule? Impossible, considering TP take place between OOT and TWW and is in Old Hyrule. For now, I will just dismiss the inclusions of Light Tears as a coincidence.


TP takes place on the other timeline, parallel to WW...


Yeah I just said I know that in response to someone else. But it does in away even while being on a seperate timeline.

As for the skeleton knight in TP being a previous Link...although not outlandish...that idea is still wrong. Why would this 'prior Link' be dressed that way? Where is his green garb? Why don't other ghostly Links come out and teach you stuff in other games? For the sake of the current topic I won't go any further on that and stand on my claim and you can stand on yours.... You will just have to stand wrong. :)

#52 Chaltab

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 07:02 PM

I think it's a bit too early to conclude that Anjean is Zelda/Tetra. Sure, they have the similar hairstyle, but that would also make her over 112 years old. Not too far fetched for a Zelda game, but something to consider.

At anyrate, I wonder what the future of this New Hyrule will hold. If evidence supports it, perhaps some of the 2D games could be moved into the TWW timeline to remove clutter in the Child one.

#53 Fin

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 07:06 PM

For the sake of the current topic I won't go any further on that and stand on my claim and you can stand on yours.... You will just have to stand wrong. :)


Yeah, I don't really wanna derail this thread either. I shouldn't have said anything. :P

Still, if you feel like having an ancient argument that you're probably long sick to death of, there's always PMs. ;d

#54 Impossible

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 07:10 PM

I think it's a bit too early to conclude that Anjean is Zelda/Tetra. Sure, they have the similar hairstyle, but that would also make her over 112 years old. Not too far fetched for a Zelda game, but something to consider.


It's not implausible considering it's a Zelda game. And also because it's Zelda. Remember PH? Zelda still possesses an unnaturally huge life force, which, based on the fact that they're called the same thing in Japanese, I assume is the same thing as the light force...

#55 Raien

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 07:30 PM

On the Tetra/Anjean thing, we should remember one of the golden rules of timeline theorising:

Similar =/= The Same

I don't accept them to be the same until I see definite proof of progression.

#56 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 07:57 PM

On the Tetra/Anjean thing, we should remember one of the golden rules of timeline theorising:

Similar =/= The Same

I don't accept them to be the same until I see definite proof of progression.


You may stand correct on that. A new race has just been confirmed called the 'Lokomo' per this article:

http://www.zeldauniv...ule-the-lokomo/ .

Her name is Anjean (means Engine) and she is a sage and of a race called the Lokomo. So far she is the only Lokomo we've seen thus far as it is believed that the Lokomo are half human and half train (stupid) according to the article. However I think that is just something like a wheel chair since she is an old lady.

Also, the Lokomo may just be regular looking humans who have mastered the use of trains (that's what I believe).

#57 Impossible

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 11:51 PM

So the natives of "Hyrule" are not the Hylians. This seems like a new mythos for a new land being build up here, it doesn't fit with other games from what we know so far... I mean, I'm combining that with the assumption that the Sacred Realm was connected to the old Hyrule, and everything else we know about what was destroyed, and what remains destroyed due to the king's wish.

#58 Person

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 01:35 AM

So the natives of "Hyrule" are not the Hylians. This seems like a new mythos for a new land being build up here, it doesn't fit with other games from what we know so far... I mean, I'm combining that with the assumption that the Sacred Realm was connected to the old Hyrule, and everything else we know about what was destroyed, and what remains destroyed due to the king's wish.

It does seem that the spirit of the king's wish was kept. Even though the land is called Hyrule, it's only Hyrule in the sense that New York is a city in northern England.

And yet that doesn't prevent people from doing stuff like this:
Spirit Tracks Geography Speculation

Note that this is essentially just trying to prove that TMC and FSA happen after ST, which is pretty preposterous as it is.

Edited by Person, 08 November 2009 - 01:39 AM.


#59 SOAP

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 02:02 AM

So the natives of "Hyrule" are not the Hylians. This seems like a new mythos for a new land being build up here, it doesn't fit with other games from what we know so far... I mean, I'm combining that with the assumption that the Sacred Realm was connected to the old Hyrule, and everything else we know about what was destroyed, and what remains destroyed due to the king's wish.


Native to "Hyrule"? You mean the Lokomo people? What's to say they're native to this new hyrule? Recent details state that when Link and the Pirates discovered the new land it was an uninhabited aside from spirits from the earth. We only see one Lokomo person and Anjean looks like a regular Hylian/Human woman on a steam-powered scooter. The Lokomo could simply be a splinter group of the human settlers who were specifically renowned for the understanding of steam engine technology. Damn Nintendo though, using the word "tribe" so interchangeably with species.

The only strange thing is the inclusion of Light Tears, which were used in TP. TP happening in the land of New Hyrule? Impossible, considering TP take place between OOT and TWW and is in Old Hyrule. For now, I will just dismiss the inclusions of Light Tears as a coincidence.

Shhh! Let's not encourage any growing of epileptic trees here. :linksweat:

#60 Impossible

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 02:04 AM

Native to "Hyrule"? You mean the Lokomo people? What's to say they're native to this new hyrule?


Um, it's explicitly said in the only explanation of them we have as reference, which was linked above.




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