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#61 Nameless_Joe

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Posted 07 July 2008 - 08:18 PM

Got it, thanks!!! :)

I’ve spent some time watching RPG XP tutorials so I shouldn’t have to ask too many basic questions. I’ve learned how to add NPCs with branching dialogues, and I’m beginning to work with variables now.

Spoiler : click to show/hide
Question: How does one mix and match tilesets? (Or are you forced to use only one per map?) For example: I was cobbling a desert stage together and when I brought up another tileset to import a tree from that second tileset, the desert changed to the graphics in the second tileset. (And the map was completely screwed up. :blink: )

Also, Tseb, I was able to import a modified tileset per your instructions, but when I attempt to use it on a map, the menu (I’m right-clicking on ‘map properties’) just acts like the imported tileset isn’t there. What’s up with that?
Edit: I *believe* playing around with the program has just answered my question in the spoiler above.

Finally, I've been attempting to create an invisible barrier. Any suggestions how to do this? I was think of having a hidden entrance to something among a stand of trees, of using a row of trees to seperate parts of the map, like in Zelda, but if I change the passage rules (x's and o's) via the database, then the rules obviously apply to all trees on the map...

Edited by Nameless_Joe, 08 July 2008 - 02:50 AM.


#62 Ken the Wandering Soul

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 01:15 AM

I am not too certain of this, but try creating an event with a graphic of a tree that the character can walk over.

#63 Tseb

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 09:45 AM

Hey,

About the whole tile import thing, sorry I have no idea what yhe problem is with yours Joe. Mostly cause I've never done that before and that's the way I think you would have to do it. D~N said it worked for him so see what he did to make it work. Some things to try though, make sure that you re-import it after modding it. make sure you imported it as a tileset and didn't accidentaly import it as something else. Check my step-by-step and try it again. If that doesn't work I'll try and figure the problem out.

Yeah you can only use one tileset at a time (yeah it's a pain).

Invisible bariers. I think if you make an event with a graphic that can't be walked though (like a person or some of those support ones) and then use the image properties (I think you'll have to use change graphic properties) then set the oppacity to 0. Or you might be able to set up some conditional branches along the lines of

If player is facing left:
show text "there's something blocking my way"
Set move route: move right (one space)
(you may have to add exit event processing to keep it from bugging)

that should make the character move away from the area by one space when ever they hit your "wall"
Jumping script pics coming up soon.

any more questions?

#64 D~N

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 12:03 PM

Finally, I've been attempting to create an invisible barrier. Any suggestions how to do this? I was think of having a hidden entrance to something among a stand of trees, of using a row of trees to seperate parts of the map, like in Zelda, but if I change the passage rules (x's and o's) via the database, then the rules obviously apply to all trees on the map...

Here's what would work. Try exporting the tileset to another program, (instructions above). Once you've done that, copy the tree you want to use. Then paste it in some of the white space. You may need to stretch the tileset vertically. Now you should have two of the same tree. Import the tileset, and now you have two trees that you can change the x's and o's for. This way, you can have trees on your map that are normal, and ones that are different for specific locations and reasons, like you said you needed.

Edit: also, I feel your pain with the one-tileset-only thing. However, exporting and importing should again solve all of your problems. This time, export both the tileset you want to use mainly plus the tileset that has that one tree or whatever it is that you need. Open them up in any program, and cut or copy the tree from the second tileset and paste it into the first. Inport the new tileset, and tada!

In case you couldn't tell, I'm fiddling around with importing and exporting. It solves many problems. ^.^

Edited by D~N, 08 July 2008 - 12:07 PM.


#65 CID Farwin

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 01:36 PM

Question: How does one mix and match tilesets? (Or are you forced to use only one per map?) For example: I was cobbling a desert stage together and when I brought up another tileset to import a tree from that second tileset, the desert changed to the graphics in the second tileset. (And the map was completely screwed up. :blink: )
Also, Tseb, I was able to import a modified tileset per your instructions, but when I attempt to use it on a map, the menu (I’m right-clicking on ‘map properties’) just acts like the imported tileset isn’t there. What’s up with that?

That's easy. Just so everyone knows, all the Import/export stuff does is basically move stuff around in your folders. So, if it's already imported, What you've got to do is:
1. go into your database,
2. click on the tilesets tab.
3. In the bottom left corner, click on change maximum.
4. Use the little arrows to increase the number of tilesets and click OK.
5. click on the arrow next to the box under "tileset Graphic"
6. click on your imported tileset. (as Tseb said, it should be orange) and click OK.
7. Enter the name for your tileset.
8. Apply and exit your database.
9. Do what you did before, go into map properties and change the map to your new tileset.

And I like visuals, so here's my screenshot(by click) explanation.

Attached File  explanation_1.png   1.21MB   9 downloads
Attached File  explanation_2.png   1.33MB   6 downloads

Finally, I've been attempting to create an invisible barrier. Any suggestions how to do this? I was think of having a hidden entrance to something among a stand of trees, of using a row of trees to seperate parts of the map, like in Zelda, but if I change the passage rules (x's and o's) via the database, then the rules obviously apply to all trees on the map...

I agree with use an event.

#66 Nameless_Joe

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 09:13 PM

make sure you imported it as a tileset and didn't accidentaly import it as something else.

Yeah, that was my mistake; importing it as something else. I was also distracted by the fact that the tiles at the top of each tileset (the autotiles) weren't being imported/exported with the other tiles. After a period of frustration, I realized what was wrong! :lol: It's all good now, though, thanks.

any more questions?

Not at present, but I'm sure I'll have more soon... :)

Here's what would work. Try exporting the tileset to another program, (instructions above). Once you've done that, copy the tree you want to use. Then paste it in some of the white space. You may need to stretch the tileset vertically. Now you should have two of the same tree. Import the tileset, and now you have two trees that you can change the x's and o's for. This way, you can have trees on your map that are normal, and ones that are different for specific locations and reasons, like you said you needed.


Yes, that's what I ended up doing. I may go back and change it to an event later. Right now, I'm cursing out a treasure chest.

Just so everyone knows, all the Import/export stuff does is basically move stuff around in your folders.

Thank you for the screenshots; I'm going to save them in case I forget what to do! I've been working with the program throughout last night and this morning, so I've got a good grasp on importing/exporting now.

#67 D~N

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 11:18 AM

Hmm. Alright, because my scanner just -died- and I can't get things up for a while, I'm redirecting my attention to music for a bit. I of course will continue working on the game but at the same time I can work on the music. What I need to know is, who was someone with the ability or the desire to create music. I need to have a good word with whomever that may be. Also, anyone interested in making music needs to download Finale NotePad (2008 version if you can) and get back to me. I want to show you some of the stuff I've created but you need that program first. So, anyone interested in the music portion of the project, step forward! :)

#68 CID Farwin

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 04:55 PM

Music sounds fun. I've got Finale NotePad already.(2006)

#69 D~N

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 07:11 PM

Okay that's great, I should be able to send you files. I find it easiest to send files over AIM, actually. If you would like to do that, we could get a quick chat going, and I could give you specifics about the music i need and what actually needs to be done. I'm not musically talented at all, so I need someone to help me in many ways, someone that is educated in the musical arts, not just a dabbler like me. I hope you can help me in that area.

#70 CID Farwin

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 03:25 PM

So...This project dead or somethin'?

#71 D~N

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 09:55 PM

Oh no no no, by no means! In fact, I've got three people (my neighbor, another personal friend, and myself) working on towns right now, and quite diligently at that. As long as people are still working (you guys are still working right? ...RIGHT?!) then everything is going acording to plan. I mean, I've completely engrossed myself in my work, so I kinda just assumed everyone was doing the same thing. I didn't really give the official "on your mark, get set, go! Make some levels!" But yeah, seriously guys, make some stuff. Heheheh. And of course, if you need more instructions than that, that's why I'm here, and why this thread exsists. Just ask before you start making somehting, and if I already know what you're doing, just continue with that. If anyone has questions, ask 'em!

I forgot who said they have it at this point, but does anyone have musical tallents, and a music program with really good quality? I know CID said a while ago that he'd help, so is there anyone else? Because that's whay I need right now. Of course I also need level and town designers, but yeah, whoever has music stuff step up, because the time is now! I've got my scanner working again, so those sprite people are about to get busy too. I'll scan my characters (and I'll also scan my overworld map, so you guys know what the hell you're doing, heh heh heh.) But yeah, I'll get you the stuff CID, the sheet music I was explaining before. ...you'll have to PM me your AIM screenname again, and a time I can reach you (or did you not have one, I forget what you said. I think you said you didn't use AIM...bah, just PM me that if you find the time.) but yeah if you do that I'll send you what you need and instructions too. Basically I have some songs, but they're not good, and I need someone with musical talents and a high-quality program to fix what I've started.

Yeah, and if anyone's got something to show me, lets try and figure out how to fileshare (I use AIM, which I found works really well for sending things quickly thanks to the convinient "send files" button) so that I can integrate everything once it's complete. Also, I'd like to know how everything is coming, if anyone's actually been working. So, who's still alive, other than CID and myself? Let me know! This project still has plenty of pizazz left in it!

Edited by D~N, 08 August 2008 - 09:56 PM.


#72 D~N

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 09:16 PM

Scanner was a difficult thing to get running (though I may have fixed it, getting the instalation disk for the skanner to work on Vista was impossible, so I had to find an old computer and a flash drive, and start transfering things slowly but surely. In the end, it's worth it, 'cause now you all may see how mediocre I am at drawing!

Sprite artists and other character design artists should pay attention here!

http://img175.images...598/cyankl9.jpg
These are some logo ideas I thought of. The full title of the game, I think, is going to be The Cyan Chronicles (and if there wereto be multiple entries in this supposed "series" the games would be presented in chapters). I like the largest one there (obviously) but also I like the one under it, the one where the "C" and "y" connect to make a circle. The circle will make more sense as I explain further. Also, the title "cyan" will too, as they are connnected.

http://img181.images...76/shaw2to8.jpg
Oliver Shaw is set to be the protagonist in the series. This is my first shot at drawing him, so he may seem a bit odd. Also, nothing is finalized in this picture. After discussing this picture with my co-creator, we decided the stubble makes him look too old. We want a mature protagonist, but certainly not that old. More like Link's age in OoT's grown-up poprtion, or TP.

http://img511.images...585/shawpb1.jpg
This is a very early sketch of the protagonist, probably the second time I drew him. I was trying out different things like clothes and body shape, although I'm set on his face.

http://img179.images...61/shaw3ch3.jpg
Another early sketch. This time a 1:1 perspective. The eye piece is important. If I didn't already explain, or for those who don't know or remember, his eyes (both) were injured during a fight with the antagonist during his childhood. The one with the scar sees okay now, but the other one had to be helped surgically. Since this is a fictionaly universe, the corrective surgery, despite the "olde thyme" apperance of my video game, is actually futuristic. His eye permanently has a round, holographic ring around his eye. The kind of hologram you'd expect out of Metroid or something. This eye can only see the color cyan, but it can capture things like depth, volume, and whatnot. Essentially, he sees everything properly, just tinted a different color. That color is Cyan, the name of the game. There will be some parts of the game where puzzles must be seen through his eye to see, and so there will be a button to overlay the entire screen with a cyan tint. It will solve some awesome puzzles, I hope. Pretend it's like the X-Ray or Echo visor in Metroid. I've decided that the cyan ring, if he doesn't wish it to be popping out of his face, can infuse itself into his face. In effect, it creates a blue ring within his skin that can still be seen glowing, like glowing blue veins, in the shape of a circle. But that's not important right now...

http://img365.images.../shawetccd0.jpg
My best illustrations of Oliver. There's a bunch of sketchy crap going on, so just ignore it. I was also wondering at this point, what weapon should he use? I ultimately decided his main would be a Mace, but he'd also tinker with a crossbow and a staff or pike (not shown, haha). The important thing in this picture is that he appears the appropriate age, here. Still, his vest still isn't the kind of outfit I'm looking for. I keep falling back on "tunic" but I don't want this to be Zelda. I need something original and cool, that's not a green tunic...

http://img371.images...121/vladhg8.jpg
This one is my proudest illustration of the antagonist, whose name I keep switching. So far I like "Vladimir Savage" the best, though it's also the corniest last name. Any name help would be good. He's human, but has limited 'dark magic' abilities. It's important to remember that he's just as old and as strong as you, because you're more "rivals" than "enemies" at some points of the game. Rather than a one-sided dominance (ala Ganondorf's takeover of Hyrule or something like that) the antagonist and protagonist find themselves fighting for the same goals all along, and because they are evenly matched, the conflict is much more interesting. Sometimes the hero wins, sometimes he doesn't.

http://img508.images...76/vlad2il2.jpg
Vlad as seen in a early sketch. You'll notice the hair is different. To see the eveolution of his character, look at these pictures in reverse, because the one above this one is the most recent, and the one below this one is the oldest. Nothing interesting here, other than more poorly drawn pictures.

http://img508.images...30/vlad3nt8.jpg
At first I was satisfied with his look in this one. As you can read, he's inspired by Gary from Pokémon, which is why I'm going big on the whole "rival" thing. Still, I ended up changing it, probably because i felt he wasn't "evil" enough. I'd like to point out that his leg is of the same technology and machinery as the "gear golems." Remember the fight that cost Oliver his eyes? Well that was with this dude, and the fight costed him his leg. He, too, had surgery. Now his leg is like, t3h pwnage. He hides it throughout the game until the end, thanks to his cloak, never revealing his leg, if he can.

Posted Image
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Yeah too big for t3h scanner. Anyway, that's kinda what I meant. This was my original inspiration, of course.

http://img211.images...69/marksfk2.jpg
My only illustration of Professor Marks. What do you think? Too boring? I dunno, i like his general appearance, but there's nothing to really "wow" anyone with...btw he's always checking the time.

Posted ImagePosted Image

Too big yet again (large paper) but that's the overworld. I'll give the grand tour after the next pic, it's important.

Posted Image
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That's the last of the pictures. The overworld is essentially a large grassy plain. There are mountains to the north, a desert to the east, and a beach even further to the east. A castle town and castle reside in the north, and forest to the southwest. The giant tree in the middle (no that's not an explosion :P) is no Great Deku Tree, it doesn't talk. It's just a thriving tree, that feeds off the lake it resides in. In the center of the lake is an island, where the tree lives. a river shoots off from the mountains, and a graveyard (important!) is next to the castle town. There are other towns scattered around the map, represented by houses.

In the middle you'll see an odd-looking shape. That's the city-in-the-sky thing I was talking about. Again, it's held up by giant pillars, and is one giant metal machine. Under that is the underground citym not drawn. Off the beach is a small island, where something will happen, I'm sure. I'm thinking about the final dungeon being off on a small island, maybe. Now, for the southwest corner. Your hometown is the one to the left of the bridge. The bridge stretches over a giant cliff, an abyss that was formed by the moving tectonic plates. Across the bridge is the other half of your hometown. The town itself actually was split appart over the years by the moving plates. How cool is that? South of your town is a forest, and beyond that forest, is the entrance to the secret city of the ancient gear dieties. That giant gear is the first and last "dungeon." On the map that's zoomed up, pay no attention to the giant tree. It should be in the lake like the zoomed-out picture. The zoomed-in one is an earlier concept, when I hadn't yet put the tree in the lake. Originally there was nothing in the lake at all, and the tree was positioned right where you see it. Also, originally the castle was in the south, but I didn't like it. Everything felt to cramped, the castle was too close to the desert, and the tree was too close to the giant "gap/abyss/thing." So yeah, the final map is the small one, the zoomed-in one is just to see where the home town is and whatnot.

Well, that's basically it. This post is huge, so I hope it works. A lot of hotlinks in this one...

Edited by D~N, 13 August 2008 - 10:07 PM.


#73 D~N

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 06:46 PM

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^READ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Sorry, double post . =/
I got the code working though! Yay Vet!
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^READ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Edited by D~N, 12 August 2008 - 06:49 PM.


#74 Keen

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 04:25 AM

Aw shoot, I'm late. And I'm really into this kind of thing too. Well, I'm a whiz at programming and English writing, not to mention I can offer mathematical skills that might help you balance your combat system. If you're still interested in any of those talents, I'm definitely interested in what you've got going on here.

#75 D~N

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 10:48 AM

Don't worry one bit, you're not late to the party. We're just getting started, in fact, so your talents certainly wont go to waste! A good script writer was something I was lacking, so I'll certainly welcome you aboard. Those mathematical skills will come in handy soon (but not until we get a combat system going, which is a while off) and you programming skills will be, of course, indispensable. Your first step, like everyone new to the fold, is to download RPG Maker XP. If you've already got that, then I guess you can start doing whatever you'd like. If you're keen on writing, I would like to work closely with you on that, because I'm not really up to that step yet. Working ahead of ourselves could proove to be weird, but perhaps right now, in this thread, we can work out the plot. What do you guys say? Anybody can help that is interested in making a cool plot, not just the "writers." But this step is essential for actual script writing, so it needs to be done first.

So, anyone wanna make a cool plot?

#76 Steel Samurai

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 05:52 PM

How good do you want it to be? As in, do you want a basic generic RPG plot or something a little less cliche?

#77 Keen

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 06:01 PM

I think the place to start with plot-making is genre, then world-building, then character design, then the actual plot points. All these things will overlap, and you'll often have to step backward to change something. The genre here is future fantasy, and you've done plenty of world-building. If you could write up the world and character designs you have so far, that would give us a place to start adding on. Every town should have at least one character of interest, the more the merrier. Also, consider adding other people to the main party. Each of them would carry a meaningful plot hook, and the interaction between them will really drive the story.

#78 D~N

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 07:47 PM

Well, it's already destined to be clichéd, considering the plot twist at the end is "the supposed professor" that was a good guy is actually evil! However, I don't want the game to contain "save the princess" levels of cliché-ness. Let's try and be a little original, yes? I already feel guilty for stealing a bunch of stuff from Zelda as it is. :P

Well, the basic plot is this:

- Shaw & Vlad were friends
- Shaw and Vlad fight
- Shaw and Vlad are now enemies, looking for same fragmented pieces
- Shaw and Vlad go and find the pieces
- Shaw and Vlad fight, Shaw reclaims pieces
- Professor Marks steals pieces, takes control of ancient monsters, was evil all along, must be defeated
- Shaw and Vlad team up, peace is restored.

That's very very simplified, I gave a slightly more in-depth plot analysis earlier in this thread. Anyone that hasn't read that should definately read it.

So, Oliver and Vlad both start in this game's equivelent of Pallet Town. A small, rural area with only a few houses, a schoolhouse, a store, one long river, and a surrounding woods. Also, the home town was separated long ago into two halves by an earthquake. now they're so far apart they function more like sister towns than one big town. the half that you don't start in is more developed. However, it isn't your first mission. I'm absolutely set that the first mission must be to go to The Ruins once more. It jump-starts the adventure - I'll explain.

I'm not set on his age, but let's say Oliver is 16 throughout the game. If that's the case, then when he was 10, that was when he went on a school field trip with Professor Marks and Vladimir, to The Ruins. The fight that made them enemies happened within the ruins, after they fought over one of the 9 keys to the ancient dieties. Greed got the best of them, and while it cost Oliver his eyes and Vlad his legs, it also caused a collapse of the ruins. After they escaped, Vlad swore he'd get that key and all of the keys one day soon. Oliver swore to himself that he'd never let that happen. So, years later, Oliver set out to the place he knew Vlad would return to one day. Vlad left the town when he was 12, never seen again. When rumblings of "Some mysterious teenager that was wreaking havok in search for ancient treasure" reached the home town that Oliver stayed in, he knew that he would have to return to that place once again before Vlad got there. In the years of his absence, Vlad mastered dark magic, built up a small army, and learned to phase out of reality. Now that he had finally built up enough power, he returned to his hometown to finally claim that gear-key that was lost in the cave-in a long time ago.

As I said, Oliver predicted this much, and got a headstart on Shaw. I'm not sure how he will recieve news of "Vlad's uprising," and how that will work, but I know that for a little while you have to stay in your home town, learn the controls of the game, like in Zelda, and then after some triggered event, the time comes for you to leave. Unlike in Zelda where the sword is "earned" or something in the beggining, in my game, the Mace is resting on your wall the whole time, waiting for this day. When he knows it's time, he grabs the mace and escapes his town in one swoop.

If you look at the lower-left corner of the map, you'll see that the only way to get to The Ruins is through a forest. He travels hastily through that. He arrives at the ruins, and the player plays the first "dungeon." No Boss, but the key is acquired. This dungeon will be returned to later. It acts as the pedestal for which the player presents the collected gear-keys. But for now, the player will leave the temple. As he exits, his first sight is his old rival. You fight him, right there and right then, prepared or not. Not sure what happens here. I'm thinking about making you lose, and then he takes the piece after all of that trouble. In a clichéd monologue, Vlad describes important stuff, but the real important thing is that he briefly mentions that he has already enslaved your hometown. You run back (traversing the woods is easier now that you have some newly acquired item). When you return, there are monsters all over the town. You defeat them and free the town, obviously.

Your next goal is, obviously, to get the next gear thing. The sister city has more information, so you go there. You talk to someone in the sister city. I don't know who yet. You learn that the next place to go is the peaks. There's one guy that lives in the moutnain that knows where, on top of that huge mountain range, the gear-key rests (he might join your party, as an ice mage?). Atop that mountain is a snow-themed puzzle, which is so expansive it becomes a dungeon. The puzzle is to get one large contraption to work. The contraption is a giant torch or something, which melts the ice that has engulfed the key. The key is acquired, but then on the way back down, the boss fight begins. It's some ice monster, obviously. I may be clichéd in using an ice-monster, but what I think is interesting is that the timing of the boss is always going to be different. Here the boss is after you get the key. It's quite unlike Zelda, where every boss "guards" the thing you're after. In Zelda, it's alwayd boss first, stone second. One or two bosses will be "protecting" the gear-keys in my game, traditional Zelda style, but most bosses will be after. Some might even be at a different timing, something strange and unheard of.

I want things to have less rhythm. I hate how in Zelda it's: enter dungeon, solve some puzzles, recieve item, solve more puzzles, fight boss, get stone/medallion. It's too predictable. I want my game to be less systematic, less predictable. Some gears will be where they should be. Others will have been taken by Vlad before you get there. One will be stolen the moment you step foot outside the temple. Vlad "jumps" you after the first dungeon and the sixth, maybe. Those numbers are not set in stone, but the idea of gear-keys being stolen is.

After the snow, you'll go to the lakeside town, and to the tree, of course. Not too sure about after this, so I'll stop here for now. Although I do know that after the graveyard dungeon (6th dungeon?), your piece is stolen, and so you chase after Vlad on foot, until he takes the elevator to the underground "sewer" civilization. The entire crime-infested city is the headquarters of Vlad, so this part will be all about stealth and stuff. You escape, and instead of pushing the "surface" button on the elevator, Oliver pushes the "limits" button. He ends up in the mechanical heaven miles above the ground, and completes the 7th dungeon right there. This part, too, is something set in stone. everything else, I'm open to suggestions on how to keep the plot flowing regularly.

The flaws from TP must be eliminated. I want interesting things to do in-between each dungeon. I want my towns to be filled with NPC's that talk to you, ones that you want to save from disaster. I want mini-games. I want the last few dungeons to not drop the ball. And I want the storyline to make sense, and for the plot to flow properly and smoothly. Those are all very important things that must not be forgotten. So, who has more ideas for storyline?

Edited by D~N, 13 August 2008 - 10:03 PM.


#79 Keen

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 12:46 AM

Something I'll plant in your mind then: What is Shaw's reaction to Vlad's immense power? I understand that he wishes to keep Vlad from obtaining all the keys, but surely he also wants to beat Vlad the next time they face each other. Perhaps this can open the door to some additional quests, wherein Shaw seeks out artifacts to increase his own power. Also, how does Vlad react to Shaw's opposition? Will he be a watchful villain, reconquering the Home Town right after Shaw leaves? Will he be setting traps along the way? Or perhaps he's more distracted by hunting for the actual deities, so he can put his keys to use. Perhaps you might even include a dungeon inside one of the deities Vlad revives? Maybe you actually have some towns destroyed while the deity rampages, as a time-limit with real lasting consequences.

As for RPGMaker, I've downloaded it and am getting reacquainted with the interface (I used to use 2000, so I mostly know what I'm doing). I'm looking forward to going beyond the events and doing some real scripting this time. One question though: How did you get around the 30-day trial? I'd like to buy it at some point, certainly (the memories are priceless!), but I doubt I'll have 60 dollars free within the next month.

Edited by Lord of Drek, 14 August 2008 - 12:48 AM.


#80 D~N

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 11:14 AM

This gives you instructions to bypass the trial period. You need to download the "drivers" to trick the system. Everything is there that you'll need.

Now, I'm loving the way you're thinking here. You brought up several good points, so allow me to address them. First, Shaw's reaction to Vlad's power. That's an interesting point. Like you said, he would logically need to seek aid. It would either be in the form of more power or, to be more traditional, find people to add to his party. Additional quests to find relics of some sort, to make himself stronger? An interesting idea indeed. It would be a logical reaction to Vlad's newfound strength. However, to be more RPG-ish, perhaps another solution would be to simply seek out help in the form of more people. Both ideas work, so perhaps a combination of both would be the ultimate plan. Good call on this one, Drek.

Then you point out Vlad's reaction to Oliver's opposition. Another good point. As you figured out, Vladimir will be distracted in his own search for the gear-key-things. So he will be busy. That isn't to say he'll be totally preoccupied. Considering that Vladimir is the "main" villian throughout the game (or at least the player would think so) he must of course set traps and such. he will send out minions to find him. He will personally try to take the gear-keys from Oliver. He will be always on the offensive, and will frequently encounter our hero. He will indeed be active.

Now, you mentioned the Home Town and if he would attack it again after Oliver leaves. That's interesting but he probably wont, and I'll tell you why. He didn't do it because he is evil. No, that wouldn't make sense, because it was his town during his childhood, after all. Rather, the reason he attacked it in the first place was because he knew he would have to wipe out two people - Oliver and Professor Marks. See, unlike Oliver, who has been fooled into thinking Marks is on his side, Vladimir knows the truth, that Marks wants the gear-keys for himself. Oliver is doing what he is doing for power, true, but he is also trying to stop them from getting into the wrong hands. In this sense, Oliver and Vlad share a common goal, they just don't know it. Now, because Vladimir comes back to take care of Oliver and Marks, he goes up some random person. In traditional bad-cop style, he'll grab this guy by the collar: "where's Oliver?!" he'll demand. The bystander tells him that Oliver has already left for the ruins, and in an outrage, Vladimir rushes through the woods with his mini-army. Some mini-army stays behind and "attacks" the village, but they're just looking for Marks. Perhaps halfway through the game, they can repeat the same action, again searching for Marks. It's an interesting idea indeed.

Rampaging deity-dungeon? Hell yes, this idea rocks! It'd be a short dungeon though, probably more like something to occupy the player in-between the actual dungeons. It's a great idea, I'm loving it!

#81 CID Farwin

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 01:21 PM

So what's the professor doing this whole time? Is he sitting around, waiting for Vlad and Oliver to get the gear keys so he can take them? Is he off somewhere scheming some big plan? I think it would be a good idea to have him be a sort of guide of Oliver through most of the game, (telling him where to find the gear keys and such. Maybe he even goes with Oliver to the first gear?) which would make an even bigger surprise when he turns out to be the bad guy in the end.

Also, you mentioned a guy that lives in the mountain. Could he be a former associate of the professor? that could have potential.

You definitely need more characters, with their own sub-plots and side quests.

#82 D~N

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 02:59 PM

Yeah, the Professor is basically going to be the "old man" of the game, or to compare to Zelda games like Link's Awakening, the Owl that gives the dirrections. Essentially he'll give clues and basic hints as to where to go. He will join your party at some times, and at other times, he'll leave your party (too old to be a constant fighting member). Leading the player to the first dungeon is a splendid idea, good call. Certainly it will make the suprise greater, I'm liking that. But yes, sometimes he will be sitting around, letting his plot unfold, but he will be active through Oliver, too. Remember, he's using Oliver as a puppet, and using his oposition to Vlad to his advantage.

You guys are great! Yet another good idea: indeed, the guy you meet on the mountain (I'm thinking of calling him Mikhail) should be a former co-worker of the professor. How about, a while ago (just before Marks started his research on the deities' whereabouts) he was doing research in the mountain. His lab partner and he were studying somthing. Let's say they were studying how to harness the glacial movements and control them, or just studying how to control some sort of ice-themed power. Their research concluded, they planned to head back, but Mikhail decided to stay behind. He wished to further his studies, claiming to "almost be on the verge of a breakthrough." So, yes, Marks returned home, but Mikhail stayed. He'll be older than Marks, so by the time you get there, he looks more wizard-ish than scientific (he's also been alone for quite some time). And in fact he will be a master of magic somewhat, because after all of those studies, he finally had a breakthrough. He gained the power to control ice or some such thing, and will be a party member as an ice-themed mage. He'll also guide you to the hypothesized location of the gear-key that is somewhere on that mountain range.

Now, of course I'll have sub-plots and interesting characters to go with them! I just haven't gotten that far yet. I'm always open to suggestions however, because so far everything you guys have said is really good stuff!

Also, CID, I just PMed you when you were online, and then you logged off. -__-;; it defeated the purpose of the PM, since i was asking to talk to you on AIM about the music, and about transferring files. Anyway, I'll have to get a hold of you another time.

#83 Keen

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 07:58 PM

I've been playing with the scripts that come packaged with RMXP, and it's looking like we'll be able to do pretty much whatever we want with it. So, let's start talking about what kind of battle system you want to implement. My personal favorite is a tactical system (Shining Force, Final Fantasy Tactics), but some people aren't so fond of it.

Choosing the battle system can also help us figure out the right size and personality for the party.

#84 D~N

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 10:11 PM

I don't know how possible it is, but I do know that my favorite kind of battle system is the kind that is found in the Mario & Luigi series, or the Paper Mario series. The kind where the protagonists are on one side, the antagonists are on the other, and battles are more than selecting moves from a list. In M&L, I like that the moves are interactive. I think it's more involved and less boring than watching an animation after selecting a move from a list.

After visiting youtube to learn about the "tactics" way of battling, I can say that I wont be using that, sorry. I'm not familiar enough with it, and from the looks of it, it seems like interactive chess. Which isn't a bad thing, I just was hoping for something a little less stiff, ya know? Less rigid, more natural. While that system looks like it works, it doesn't look natural to me. I'm still not set on how it will work.

One thing I do know is that the way dialogue is presented in Final Fantasy Tactics is exactly how I would like my dialogue to appear. So far I have gotten the dialogue box, but like in FF:T, another thing besides the box is the character that is speaking. I would like the speaking character to be represented next to or behind the box, as shown here.

That's thinking small though. It's also thinking realistically. A more unrealistic goal is to actually get the entire character to appear behind the text, with a looped talking animation as the text scrolls. For the exact idea I'm referring to, play any Ace Attorney games.

That's how I want text displayed, ideally. As for battles, so far I'm thinking M&L, but it's always subject to change, depending on the program's limitations. My only other idea for combat was to no enter turn based battles, but to just battle it out right then and there. Essentially, like Zelda, where you walk up to an enemy and hit it physically. The difference is, unlike Zelda you still gain exp and have hit points and stuff. Basically an RPG without turn-based battles. Does anyone have any examples of that, because I can't think of anything. But I'm still leaning towards M&L/Paper Mario's system.

#85 Showsni

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 03:26 PM

Path of Radiance here what you'd like? Though that is a tactics game, of corse. There are a few visual novel makers out there...

#86 Keen

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 07:13 PM

Secret of Mana and its siblings (all made by Square) are real-time RPGs with three-character parties. As for the face-on-dialogue thing, that would be easy to implement, and I wholly approve. The only trick is providing images for every character's face.

Funny that you should mention Paper Mario, as I was just playing Thousand-Year Door a few minutes ago. Actually, when I used to play Shining Force II, I would always pretend that it had action commands so I would have something to do while the attack animations played. But, yeah, that would also be an easy thing to add, from the programming standpoint. The only trick is to have an animation that cues the action command for each attack.

An update: I'm removing the four-member party restriction right now, and it's definitely feeling like it'd be easier to build a battle system from the ground up. Well, from the RGSS ground anyway.

Edited by Lord of Drek, 15 August 2008 - 10:20 PM.


#87 D~N

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 08:59 PM

I fear that if I stray to close to a Zelda formula, like a full-real-time system, then it will play more like Zelda and less like an RPG. I would like some Zelda-ish adventure qualities in the game, but to guarantee it will be different, I think a turn-based system, while less "exciting," will work best. For now, my decision is that we try to achieve a turn-based system as well as we can, and impliment as many action commands mid-attack (ala M&L) as we can. The more the better, honestly. It just provides that one extra level of immersion, like the player is actually doing something to attack.

When RPG's just choose attacks from a list, and then executes the attack, don't you feel like you're commanding the player? When I choose from a list, I feel like I'm commanding some sort of pokemon, except instead of a pokemon it's a human with a sword. That's why, for me at least, the action commands make me feel like I AM the character, rather than like I'm controlling the character. You know what I mean?

I don't want the party to be too big. And I really want the focus to be on Oliver, so like in Paper Mario, the secondary characters are just that - secondary. They come and go throughout the game, joining and leaving as you pass through different towns. In the end I want it to be Oliver's journey, with *some* help. Not Oliver and Co.'s great adventure.

Mmm, Path of Radiance just hit the nail on the head! Thank you for providing that example, because that's precisely what I had in mind. However, rather than simply standing behind their dialogue and blinking, perhaps we could take the extra step and move their mouths in a relatively simple 3-frame animation process, randomly picking the next animation to keep the talking appear normal. If we can't, we don't have to, but that's my goal that I had in mind from the start. If we could achive that I'd be extremely pleased.

#88 Keen

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 09:30 PM

Well, the more I go through these scripts and play around, the more simple these propositions look. I can definitely put animations into the text boxes, and I can definitely implement some action commands (probably in place of the current critical system). But I do need some time to continue learning the environment before I can find the cleanest way of implementing those.

What I've done so far is removed the four-party-member limitation and changed the HP/SP text on the battle scene into HP/SP bars. I also slightly rewrote the attack and skill executions, well, so that they work more like Paper Mario stats honestly. Almost all the math is basic addition, with the exceptions of elemental effects, criticals, guards, and diffusion.

If you have any requests for little changes like that, I can do them fairly quickly, especially after doing them once before. If you mean to throw out the built-in battle system entirely, I can help you create a wholly new one, but it will take a bit of planning. And so you know, scripting is also used to handle the events, so I can change the workings of just about any event to your liking. Actually, there's nothing you're seeing in your game that doesn't go through a script first.

Update: After writing this, I altered the script so that whoever is attacking will score a critical hit if the C key is pressed during the attack. Some refinements such as allowing multiple hits or command timing will become possible once I've had more time with the script.

Update 2: Oh! I will need images if I'm going to animate them. Naturally. Also, I set up the attack script so that you will defend if the enemy is attacking instead of giving them a critical.

Edited by Lord of Drek, 16 August 2008 - 09:46 PM.


#89 D~N

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 10:23 PM

Wow! That's some fast coding! You certainly seem to know what you're doing. That's excelent, because I'd be completely lost if I had to code things by myself. So far, everything you've done sounds like it's exactly what we need, so a huge thank-you goes out to you. Keep up the amazing work! ^.^

On the topic of the animation images you need. Yeah, I don't really have those yet, as we're not that far along. We could be, but so far it seems that the artists have yet to respond to my huge dump of images. I uploaded all those images not for my benefit, but rather so that the people that said they were interested in storyboard art, concept art, etc., could work from sample pictures of some main characters. Once they do that, and make them look a bit more proffessional, I can start to get animation images for talking. But first, those who are interested in the artisic side of this project need to speak up, please! ^.^ I'd greatly appreciate it.

I'll try to go back a page or two in this thread and see who was interested in drawing stuff, and contact them via PM to ask if they're still up for it. For now, you're doing a fantastic job, as is everyone. I greatly appreciate everyone's hard work!

#90 nameless

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 07:31 AM

I have a good music program, so if you would like I'll put up some of my all ready done music and you can tell me what you think. I don't have a heck of a lot of time but I'll try. Can I actually put sound clips in posts?




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