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Twilight Princess - my impressions


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#31 NM87

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Posted 15 May 2008 - 11:18 PM

Seems to me that in the child timeline the crests mean something different than they do in OOT Future. The crest doesn't mean you own one of the Triforce, it appears you merely gain the power of that respective goddess...as the chose one.

I was correct.

#32 Jumbie

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 12:02 AM

Seems to me that in the child timeline the crests mean something different than they do in OOT Future. The crest doesn't mean you own one of the Triforce, it appears you merely gain the power of that respective goddess...as the chose one.

I was correct.

...Did I miss something?

#33 Hero of Legend

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 03:37 AM

Huh? What the shit is this?

...Okay, so that's unusually blunt of them. In case anyone failed to realize this, there are obvious fatalistic and dualistic implications here. I guess Zelda says something of the sort also, but yeah, not nearly as bluntly.

Jumbie is right about Ganondorf too; I'm glad, because this makes him look a whole lot less pathetic. I also noted he said 'darkness' instead of 'shadow', which makes sense.

...Now I wonder how the hell he knows this shit.

As for whether the crests indicate the possession of a Triforce piece or not... that's still up in the air at this point. Ganondorf's words don't really prove anything - it is, after all, true that when one who is unworthy touches the Triforce, the gods grant the crests to three people, who then act as the antithesis of each other and strive to obtain the true power - though, with the 'divine prank' in mind, the implication is obviously there.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 16 May 2008 - 09:28 AM.


#34 NM87

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 08:30 AM

Seems to me that in the child timeline the crests mean something different than they do in OOT Future. The crest doesn't mean you own one of the Triforce, it appears you merely gain the power of that respective goddess...as the chose one.

I was correct.

...Did I miss something?

Do Ganondorf, Link and Zelda obtain the Triforces of Power, Courage, and Wisdom respectively, or do they merely receive the power of their respective Goddesses? Twilight Princess never states that they obtain the Triforces, so the latter is correct. You see, the Triforce and the entrance to the SR is still unknown.

This is what I proposed on another topic, before you had translated this bloc of text. Not that I am the first person who came up with the idea, is just that my theory got a plus from this discovery. After TP, the SR and the Triforce are both undisturbed.

#35 Raien

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 08:49 AM

Hang on... Doesn't Ganondorf say that the goddesses awarded the trio their powers? Could this be the divine prank?

#36 NM87

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 09:06 AM

Hang on... Doesn't Ganondorf say that the goddesses awarded the trio their powers? Could this be the divine prank?

I've been trying to tell you that all along, they only got their powers, not the Triforces. The goddesses CHOSE THEM.

#37 Duke Serkol

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 09:23 AM

MPS, I'm not going to dignify your post with a reply.

NM87, it's great to see someone else coming to these conclusions on their own :)

Jumbie and HoL... good posting! *thumbs up*

#38 Raien

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 11:29 AM

I have a new point to add. In OoT, when Ganondorf acquired the Triforce of Power, he went to the task of searching for the other two people who came to possess the Triforce pieces of Wisdom and Courage, in order to acquire their pieces and rule Hyrule uncontested.

Now, I presumed for a long time that Ganondorf in TP didn't attempt to take the Triforce pieces from Link and Zelda because he could control Hyrule with the support of the Twili, but of course with Link and Zelda contesting his power, there is no reason why he should not take their pieces... unless he was actually unable to.

This, more than anything I've seen so far, would lead me to believe that the crests are not Triforce pieces.

Edited by Raian, 16 May 2008 - 12:07 PM.


#39 NM87

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 03:35 PM

I have a new point to add. In OoT, when Ganondorf acquired the Triforce of Power, he went to the task of searching for the other two people who came to possess the Triforce pieces of Wisdom and Courage, in order to acquire their pieces and rule Hyrule uncontested.

Now, I presumed for a long time that Ganondorf in TP didn't attempt to take the Triforce pieces from Link and Zelda because he could control Hyrule with the support of the Twili, but of course with Link and Zelda contesting his power, there is no reason why he should not take their pieces... unless he was actually unable to.

This, more than anything I've seen so far, would lead me to believe that the crests are not Triforce pieces.

Ganondorf in OOT searched for the remaining to pieces of Triforce because the legend of the Triforce had prevented him from making his wish and/or the fact that his ambitions were not satisfied, and it was a necessity to obtain the other two Triforce to receive the “True Force” enabling him to “gain complete mastery of the world”.

We have new knowledge now that Ganondorf, Link and Zelda never acquire the Triforce pieces, which means its not a question of Ganondorf being able to take them, they just aren’t’ there. The only threat Link and Zelda pose are being the two chosen by destiny to battle the evil one Ganondorf, who is also chosen by destiny.

It is now debatable if the “legend of the Triforce” is negated because of this divine prank.

#40 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 04:19 PM

MPS, I'm not going to dignify your post with a reply.


I figured. ¬_¬

We have new knowledge now that Ganondorf, Link and Zelda never acquire the Triforce pieces


What? That was never confirmed. It's still a theory, not "new knowledge."

#41 Raien

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 04:21 PM

MPS is right. Although I'm leaning toward the crests not being Triforce pieces, it's far from proven and it probably will never be proven unless an active distinction from the Triforce is made (which is highly unlikely since the Triforce is never named in TP).

PS: Another thought has come to mind. What would you think if the trio randomly have crests in a future Zelda game? If the trio are chosen to have power by the goddesses, then perhaps we will see more divine pranks in future titles.

Edited by Raian, 16 May 2008 - 04:23 PM.


#42 NM87

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 09:45 PM

Mike

What? That was never confirmed. It's still a theory, not "new knowledge."


The fact that the Triforce isn’t even mentioned in TP is proof enough that the Triforce has nothing to do with anything in the game. Although, its not one hundred percent proven, since nowhere is it explicitly stated, it may never be a “completely” proven fact. In spite of this, the evidence becomes stronger with every new “discovery“. Even so, Link’s Awakening isn’t completely proven to be ALTTP’s sequel, but it is generally accepted that it is.

You cannot deny the apparent absence of the Triforce in TP, while in every other game who’s story includes the Triforce, makes clear mention of it. As in OOT and WW, its is drilled into the players head that Ganondorf, Link and Zelda have the Triforces, while games that feature Link with a crest make a clear distinction that the mark only means he is chosen.

jhurvid/Raian

PS: Another thought has come to mind. What would you think if the trio randomly have crests in a future Zelda game? If the trio are chosen to have power by the goddesses, then perhaps we will see more divine pranks in future titles.


Its very possible the trio can have the marks in future games, to establish them as the chosen ones, but it might not be because of a “divine prank”. Perhaps there was one divine prank by the goddesses which triggers this “Great Cataclysm”, in which the chosen ones constantly do battle.

This would only strengthen the separation of the realities in that the crests have different interpretation between the two.

#43 CID Farwin

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Posted 16 May 2008 - 11:27 PM

Okay, how is that quote suddenly vindication of a theory? How is it 'proof' of anything?

All it does is to basically say that Nintendo has no intention of abandoning Ganon. The Triforce's place in all this is up in the air. While I now have not so firm a belief about the Triforce crests, I intend to stick with my current ideals--with an open mind--until more light is shed on the issue. TP left far too many questions to be answered to say that anything is definite. You can't see something as absolute fact when it's still an assumption that only works with your way of seeing things. We cannot say anything for certain until the next game comes out.

That goes for the Triforce, Sacred Realm, ALttP, and anything else we've been debating here.

The games where Link possesses no Triforce piece feature a one-triangle crest. The games where Link possesses a Triforce piece feature a three-triangle crest with one piece glowing. TP features a crest that is both the one-triangle and three-triangle crest. Make of that what you will.

PS: There's been much talk of similarities and differences; does anyone perchance remember the thread I made on the matter?

Edited by CID Farwin, 16 May 2008 - 11:30 PM.


#44 Duke Serkol

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 07:25 AM

I have a new point to add. In OoT, when Ganondorf acquired the Triforce of Power, he went to the task of searching for the other two people who came to possess the Triforce pieces of Wisdom and Courage, in order to acquire their pieces and rule Hyrule uncontested.

Now, I presumed for a long time that Ganondorf in TP didn't attempt to take the Triforce pieces from Link and Zelda because he could control Hyrule with the support of the Twili, but of course with Link and Zelda contesting his power, there is no reason why he should not take their pieces... unless he was actually unable to.

This, more than anything I've seen so far, would lead me to believe that the crests are not Triforce pieces.

Aye, that has always been one of the chief reasons for my belief that the Triforce parts are not physically in the game (like I always said, the three could perhaps be somehow bound to their powers, but Ganondorf would not be able to steal their "connections").

Although I'm leaning toward the crests not being Triforce pieces, it's far from proven and it probably will never be proven unless an active distinction from the Triforce is made (which is highly unlikely since the Triforce is never named in TP).

That is true certainly, yes.

PS: Another thought has come to mind. What would you think if the trio randomly have crests in a future Zelda game? If the trio are chosen to have power by the goddesses, then perhaps we will see more divine pranks in future titles.

Mhm, wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Its very possible the trio can have the marks in future games, to establish them as the chosen ones, but it might not be because of a “divine prank”. Perhaps there was one divine prank by the goddesses which triggers this “Great Cataclysm”, in which the chosen ones constantly do battle.

This would only strengthen the separation of the realities in that the crests have different interpretation between the two.

That is a very interesting concept... it could be the Goddesses' answer to Zelda's act of splitting the timeline to stop Ganondorf from reaching the Triforce in OoT.

#45 Showsni

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 11:13 AM

More than anything, that new quote seems like the Prophecy of the Great Cataclysm from ALttP.

When the chosen ones appear...
They are always born into this world in perfect balance.
That is the destiny of the chosen. That is the fate decreed by your gods, the only path for those who bear their crests.
When this world brings forth another marked as you are...
Know too, that it shall also be visited by one of my blood.
Do not think this ends here...
The history of light and shadow will be written in blood!


This is the way I heard it...
If a person who has an evil heart gets the Triforce, a Hero is destined to appear...
...and he alone must face the person who began the Great Cataclysm.


When an evil person threatens the triforce, a hero appears. Now Ganondorf says when a hero appears, an evil person will rise too.


#46 Duke Serkol

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 11:25 AM

Yep, I was thinking of that too Showsni, yet another reason to have ALttP after TP (and FSA ;))

#47 NM87

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 12:29 PM

Its very possible the trio can have the marks in future games, to establish them as the chosen ones, but it might not be because of a “divine prank”. Perhaps there was one divine prank by the goddesses which triggers this “Great Cataclysm”, in which the chosen ones constantly do battle.

This would only strengthen the separation of the realities in that the crests have different interpretation between the two.

That is a very interesting concept... it could be the Goddesses' answer to Zelda's act of splitting the timeline to stop Ganondorf from reaching the Triforce in OoT.

Especially considering that the Goddesses are all powerful, who can transcend time and space. Even though Ganondorf may had split the Triforce in another reality, the Goddesses know of it.

We must also look at Ganondorf's ambitions during OOT and TP. In OOT he wanted to become ruler of the world, but in TP his goal was to become king of light and darkness. Appears that the Triforces were of no consequence in TP because no one obtained any of them.

More than anything, that new quote seems like the Prophecy of the Great Cataclysm from ALttP.


Exactly what I was getting at. :)

#48 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 12:50 PM

The fact that the Triforce isn’t even mentioned in TP is proof enough that the Triforce has nothing to do with anything in the game.


Are you fucking serious? Holy shit, you're worse than Lex.

Even so, Link’s Awakening isn’t completely proven to be ALTTP’s sequel, but it is generally accepted that it is.


Yea, so why can't we accept the Triforce's presence despite all the evidence, even though the word "Triforce" is replaced by "Power of the Gods?"

Could it not be that the word is avoided because the plotline doesn't focus on the Triforce, but the Twilight Realm? Especially since TP is marketed mostly to people who are only casual gamers or new to the franchise?

You cannot deny the apparent absence of the Triforce in TP, while in every other game who’s story includes the Triforce, makes clear mention of it. As in OOT and WW, its is drilled into the players head that Ganondorf, Link and Zelda have the Triforces, while games that feature Link with a crest make a clear distinction that the mark only means he is chosen.


Yea, except there is no absence, really. Ganondorf still goes mad with the divine power he receives, Zelda still uses her Triforce piece to act all Sagely and be a supporting character, and Link's still works as a Deus Ex Machina to give him a winning edge. The formula is exactly the same.

The Triforce being drilled into the player's head isn't that old of a phenomena. Besides, the Triforce marks the three of them have glow strongest in a single triangle, just like when they're holding a Triforce piece, instead of a dim mark like when Link is merely chosen like in OOX and AOL. Why the hell should we ignore ALL THE VISUAL CLUES, NARRATIVE CONTEXT, PRECEDENTS, WRITER'S INTENT, AND IN-UNIVERSE TRADITION AND COMMON SENSE just for the lack of one word?

#49 Marty

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 02:06 PM

Especially since TP is marketed mostly to people who are only casual gamers or new to the franchise?


I strongly disagree with that. Casual gamers do not like playing 40-hour-epics. The older version of Link was also exactly what the fans were crying out for at the time. The game design was aimed at the fans, with marketing aimed towards a wider market as thats just common business sense.

The Triforce being drilled into the player's head isn't that old of a phenomena. Besides, the Triforce marks the three of them have glow strongest in a single triangle, just like when they're holding a Triforce piece, instead of a dim mark like when Link is merely chosen like in OOX and AOL. Why the hell should we ignore ALL THE VISUAL CLUES, NARRATIVE CONTEXT, PRECEDENTS, WRITER'S INTENT, AND IN-UNIVERSE TRADITION AND COMMON SENSE just for the lack of one word?


All the visual clues - all of the visual clues in the game suggests powers granted by the goddesses. How these powers are granted are up for debate.
Narrative context - that is part of what we're debating so nobody can say that it is definitively clear
Precedent - there is a precedent for triforce pieces creating a marked hand. There is also a precedent for marked hands meaning the chosen one. These precedents are at conflict in TP, hence the debate.
Writer's intent - only the writers themselves can declare their intent. We can only speculate.
In-universe tradition - just another way of saying precedent.
Common sense - this would be to take the facts, make no assumptions and debate them to come to a reasoned conclusion.

The lack of one word can be extremely important, especially considering the previous precedent in the Zelda games for emphasizing the triforce when it is present in the game.

#50 FDL

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 04:48 PM

All the visual clues - all of the visual clues in the game suggests powers granted by the goddesses. How these powers are granted are up for debate.
Narrative context - that is part of what we're debating so nobody can say that it is definitively clear
Precedent - there is a precedent for triforce pieces creating a marked hand. There is also a precedent for marked hands meaning the chosen one. These precedents are at conflict in TP, hence the debate.
Writer's intent - only the writers themselves can declare their intent. We can only speculate.
In-universe tradition - just another way of saying precedent.
Common sense - this would be to take the facts, make no assumptions and debate them to come to a reasoned conclusion.

The lack of one word can be extremely important, especially considering the previous precedent in the Zelda games for emphasizing the triforce when it is present in the game.



The Triforce residing in them is in of itself a power granted by the goddesses. In both OoT and TWW they make mention of the crests being on their hands AND the Triforce piece residing in them(rather than being just a regular old item) as being things that prove they are chosen. That's why it's baloney to use any quotes about "chosen ones" or "divine pranks" as proof that they don't have the real pieces. The situation in TP is the same as it is in OoT and TWW.

#51 Raien

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 04:59 PM

The situation in TP is the same as it is in OoT and TWW.


If it was the same, Ganondorf would be actively searching for the Triforce pieces of Courage and Wisdom, thus mentioning this search in the game, and Link's/Zelda's/Midna's crests would be resonating when they all get close to each other. Obviously, the situation isn't the same (or at least the context referred to the players is not the same), and we should as theorists ask why it isn't the same. That the crests are not Triforce pieces is just one explanation.

Edited by Raian, 17 May 2008 - 05:04 PM.


#52 NM87

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 10:40 PM

Mike, adapt to civilized conversation, then we'll talk.

The Triforce residing in them is in of itself a power granted by the goddesses. In both OoT and TWW they make mention of the crests being on their hands AND the Triforce piece residing in them(rather than being just a regular old item) as being things that prove they are chosen. That's why it's baloney to use any quotes about "chosen ones" or "divine pranks" as proof that they don't have the real pieces. The situation in TP is the same as it is in OoT and TWW.


There's a difference between OOT and TP, which is the fact that in OOT, Ganondorf had the goddesses power because he obtained the a Triforce, not because the goddesses awarded their power to him as in TP.

#53 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 17 May 2008 - 11:51 PM

I strongly disagree with that. Casual gamers do not like playing 40-hour-epics. The older version of Link was also exactly what the fans were crying out for at the time. The game design was aimed at the fans, with marketing aimed towards a wider market as thats just common business sense.


I'd hardly call TP a 40-hour-epic, but even still, TP's popularity makes it clear that lots of casual players play it.

There's a difference between OOT and TP, which is the fact that in OOT, Ganondorf had the goddesses power because he obtained the a Triforce, not because the goddesses awarded their power to him as in TP.


It's NOT a fact! You're using circular reasoning, trying to prove your point with the same point that's being debated.

If it was the same, Ganondorf would be actively searching for the Triforce pieces of Courage and Wisdom, thus mentioning this search in the game, and Link's/Zelda's/Midna's crests would be resonating when they all get close to each other. Obviously, the situation isn't the same (or at least the context referred to the players is not the same), and we should as theorists ask why it isn't the same. That the crests are not Triforce pieces is just one explanation.


Midna never had a crest first of all, and Ganondorf, in this incarnation, feels that the Triforce of Power is enough. Just because he doesn't seek the Triforce doesn't mean it's not involved. The Triforce Pieces don't resonate on screen because they're probably never drawn close enough.

All the visual clues - all of the visual clues in the game suggests powers granted by the goddesses. How these powers are granted are up for debate.


So..the Triforce pieces. Right.

Precedent - there is a precedent for triforce pieces creating a marked hand. There is also a precedent for marked hands meaning the chosen one. These precedents are at conflict in TP, hence the debate.


That's not true. Whenever we see the Triforce crests, one triangle glows brighter than the rest. And even when the crests are inactive, such as when we see Link in his farmboy clothes, the Triforce of Courage in the crest is a lighter gold.

Mike, adapt to civilized conversation, then we'll talk.


Civilized conversation calls for rational minds. There's a deficit, unfortunately.

#54 Raien

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 10:59 AM

Midna never had a crest first of all, and Ganondorf, in this incarnation, feels that the Triforce of Power is enough. Just because he doesn't seek the Triforce doesn't mean it's not involved. The Triforce Pieces don't resonate on screen because they're probably never drawn close enough.


The Triforce of Power was enough for Ganondorf to conquer Hyrule in OoT, but he still wanted the other pieces because their holders could contest his power. That context is the same in TP, and thus Ganondorf should logically have made some attempt to take their pieces. And if the Triforce pieces can resonate from either end of a large room, like in OoT and TWW, then that should apply to TP as well.

Edited by Raian, 18 May 2008 - 11:21 AM.


#55 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 11:28 AM

The Triforce of Power was enough for Ganondorf to conquer Hyrule in OoT, but he still wanted the other pieces because their holders could contest his power. That context is the same in TP, and thus Ganondorf should logically have made some attempt to take their pieces.


Then how come Ganondorf doesn't desire the "power of the gods" from his opponents who can contest him?

Either way you slice it, Ganondorf's mentality is different. He doesn't seek any additional power. Even when he merely had the Trident, he sought more power.

And if the Triforce pieces can resonate from either end of a large room, like in OoT and TWW, then that should apply to TP as well.


That is true. Still, since the three are never really together except for gameplay, there's never really a good time to have the Triforce resonate. I suppose one could argue, though, that the Triforce resonates when Ganondorf's crest just glows without him actually using his powers before he possesses Zelda.

#56 Raien

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 11:29 AM

Then how come Ganondorf doesn't desire the "power of the gods" from his opponents who can contest him?


Because Ganondorf can't take those powers, since they aren't Triforce pieces?

#57 Marty

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 01:32 PM

Midna never had a crest


In the midpoint of the game Midna receives all of Zelda's powers. Surely then Midna would have to have a crest if Zelda had held the Triforce of Wisdom. Clearly this inconsistency strengthens the argument that the Triforce was not present in TP.

#58 Duke Serkol

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 02:31 PM

I wonder how long a post I'm allowed to make (or should make, I don't want to make people go "OMG, no way I'm reading all that!")

Still, I think I'll post here an extract from my Twilight Princess Q&A, the part that relates to the condition of the Triforce during TP (now updated with the new findings about Sacred Grounds and Ganondorf's death speech):

Throughout the game, Ganondorf, Link and Zelda are described as having the "power of those chosen by the Gods". The word Triforce never appears once in the whole game (shamefully enough not even when we see it in Lanayru's vision). Now, while it seems Link, and supposedly Zelda, had the Triforce mark (and the relative power of the Gods) since birth, Ganondorf's case is quite different. According to the Sages, Ganondorf waged war on Hyrule with the intent of seizing the Sacred Realm, that is to say, the Triforce (since we know that's what makes the Sacred Realm so desirable... note though that this could actually mean he wanted to seize Hyrule because of the whole "Sacred Grounds" confusion. However in OoT Ganon wants to conquer Hyrule using the Triforce so this doesn't change much), just like the Twili's ancestors. However, immediately after saying that, the Sages add that he was careless and got caught. This sudden twist seems to imply that in this timeline Ganondorf was unable to take over the Sacred Realm (and claim the Triforce). Ganondorf is chained in the mirror chamber, and his death sentence executed. However, by "some kind of divine prank" at that very time when he should have died, stabbed by the Sages' sword, Ganondorf received the power of those chosen by the gods, broke free and after annihilating one of the Sages took the sword out of his chest (though an incurable wound remains, making it all the more clear Ganondorf could NOT break free before being stabbed or he would have avoided it). On the moment all the five Sages can do is seal him in the Twilight Realm.
Now how did this all come to pass? We know, the Triforce should normally be sought and acquired, not received as it would seem Ganondorf did. It is indeed quite a mystery how and why this happened as even the Sages are unable to tell. The game presents it as a divine intervention, and it could well be. Ganondorf's speech in the end was abridged, and the original version went on to claim that the bloodsmeared history which would come to pass would be caused by the re-appearence of one chosen by the gods, which would inevitaby be balanced by two others, as begun in this game. There's also another possibility I'd like to contemplate though: Ganon could have received his power as an echo of what transpired in the other timeline (him succesfully claiming the Triforce of Power and taking over Hyrule with it).
In the end though, it really doesn't matter why this happened, but what it is exactly that did happen. Now I believe I'm not mistaken in saying that most people who try to allocate this game in the timeline will not hesistate to place it between OoT and ALttP. That's what I do of course, along with FSA. This is because TP refers to many events from the child part of OoT but then has Ganon's banishment happen differently from the adult part of OoT (the one that leads into TWW). BUT! If Twilight Princess is indeed to happen between OoT and ALttP, then everything that occurs in it must not directly contradict the facts presented by ALttP's background. This is especially important when it comes to the Triforce. AoL's background tells of a time in which Hyrule was ruled with the Triforce. This was after ALttP, when Link took it from Ganon. On the other hand, ALttP's background tells of many of the things that happen in OoT and FSA. It says Ganon obtained the whole Triforce from the Sacred Realm... but never says anything about the Triforce being recovered from Ganon's grasp and kept in Hyrule. And if Ganondorf, Link and Zelda actually had the Triforce in TP, that is indeed what would necessarily come to pass after Ganondorf's death at the end of the game. But fortunately that doesn't seem to be the case. When Ganondorf dies in TP, the Triforce does not appear as it did in LoZ, his Triforce mark instead fades away, as if the power that was keeping him alive had abandoned him.
From this, the fact that Ganondorf refers to himself has chosen to bear the power of the Gods (not conqueror of the Triforce, and neither are Link and Zelda described otherwise) and the fact that the game appears clearly intended as taking place between OoT and ALttP (with FSA as well), I conclude that despite the Triforce marks, the three don't actually have any Triforce parts. Not physically at least. Physically, it is my belief that the Triforce still resides in the Sacred Realm. However, it appears that for some reason Ganondorf was given the might of the Triforce of Power, just as it would have happened had he touched and physically claimed it, as he did in OoT. And because of this, to balance the scales, Link and Zelda were born with the might of their respective Triforce parts, Courage and Wisdom (which also still physically reside in the Sacred Realm). It must be noted that Zelda and Link have the same triangle lit up on their hands in this game, but Ganondorf's unabridged speech about the three chosen re-appaering throughout time would indicate that this was just a mistake.


I've left out the last bit becuase it deals more specifically with FSA and ALttP... and I figure you guys would rather stay focused on TP here.

#59 Hero of Legend

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 04:29 PM

I like your summary, Duke. I will point out that it is not an irrefutable fact that Ganondorf received his power during the execution scene (however it would make sense with how the goddesses apparently orchestrate events in TP) but as a whole, it makes a lot of sense. In general we need to decide if the omission of the word "Triforce" in TP was meant to signify something or was merely intended as a nod to the fans; evidence seem contradictory on this point, though Ganondorf's final words are plain enough.

Speaking of that, I'm not sure how they are supposed to foreshadow ALttP, or any game for that matter. We are so used to the Triforce marks by now, we often forget they were not present in earlier games; even AoL only had one person with a mark, and Ganondorf speaks specifically of three. As such, it is likely a spiritual reference, if anything.

More importantly however is the fact that if, as you say, TP is supposed to make way for ALttP, I have some trouble understanding why Nintendo felt it necessary to include the Triforce marks at all. Ganondorf was supposed to posses’ terrible power even before the execution (he was known as the demon thief, after all) and the Fused Shadow was right there, ready to be misused. The plot would have worked without the marks. So if you ask me, if Nintendo wanted TP to mark the end of the OoT aftermath and make way for the IW, they could've done a lot better.

Admittdely, this might be the result of Nintendo’s philosophy of prioritizing the stand-alone game over the overarching story, as well as what I deem to be a somewhat rushed and confused plot. I admit, the story would’ve lost something without Ganondorf’s decree about the fate imposed by the goddesses, as well as the redemption of the Twili.

Oh yes, I also wish to say I’ve finally understood the meaning of the ending. Remember, both Zelda and Ganondorf say these events occurred at the bidding of the gods; which includes the destruction of the Mirror of Twilight. Ergo, it was Midna’s destiny to give up her newfound friendship (and possibly love) for the sake of the greater good. And that is a pretty harsh (and personal) punishment from the goddesses for her ancestors’ crimes, I’d say.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 18 May 2008 - 04:59 PM.


#60 Raien

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 05:01 PM

More importantly however is the fact that if, as you say, TP is supposed to make way for ALttP, I have some trouble understanding why Nintendo felt it necessary to include the Triforce marks at all. Ganondorf was supposed to posses’ terrible power even before the execution (he was known as the demon thief, after all) and the Fused Shadow was right there, ready to be misused. The plot would have worked without the marks. So if you ask me, if Nintendo wanted TP to mark the end of the OoT aftermath and make way for the IW, they could've done a lot better.


The power of the gods represents absolute power to Ganondorf, which is why he compares it to the Fused Shadows. Ganondorf's own evil magic was not nearly as strong, and that's why (like the Dark Tribe) he initially failed to conquer Hyrule.

Oh yes, I also wish to say I’ve finally understood the meaning of the ending. Remember, both Zelda and Ganondorf say these events occurred at the bidding of the gods; which includes the destruction of the Mirror of Twilight. Ergo, it was Midna’s destiny to give up her newfound friendship (and possibly love) for the sake of the greater good. And that is a pretty harsh (and personal) punishment from the goddesses for her ancestors’ crimes, I’d say.


Doesn't that just apply to the chosen who possess the power of the gods? Ganondorf was chosen to wield power and Link was chosen as his antithesis; I don't see how Midna fits into that.




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