168 replies to this topic

[Person]

I just say that since TWW only mentions the knights in passing, and that TP explicitly states that Link carries the hero's bloodline, I think it's safe to put ALttP after TP, where the bloodline can continue. The Knights appear to have died out completely in TWW, during the siege of Ganon's Tower, while they have descendants in ALttP. Since a hero always arises from the Knight's bloodline, and no hero arose, the bloodline is probably dead.

[LionHarted]

1) TP doesn't mention the Knights at all.
2) Hero's bloodline =/= (necessarily) Knights' bloodline. The second could exist without the first.
3) The Knights died out in the IW, too. And in FSA. I would assume the hero can come from any group of Hyrulean Knights who protect the royal family (including the TWW ones).

[Person]

In the IW, most of them died. We are told that there were probably survivors. Since Link is said to come from the Knight's bloodline, I think that hero's bloodline=knight's bloodline. While is real life this probably wouldn't be true, we are told repeatedly that Link carries the knight's bloodline. Since TP and ALttP Link carry the knight's bloodline, they also carry the hero's bloodline. In TWW, the knight's bloodline probably died out when Ganon invaded, because a hero would've arisen from it to fight him.

In FSA, the knights die out for good. That is one of the main reasons I say that it is part of the IW narrative. They might've had sired descendants already, or FS Link might be related to them. Since he probably comes from the knight's bloodline, I say it's the latter. Notice that Link shares an affinity with them.

[CID Farwin]

They might've had sired descendants already, or FS Link might be related to them.

And this CAN'T be true of TWW because....?

I think what LionHarted is getting at is Hero's Bloodline=/=Knights' Bloodline.

[LionHarted]

Basically, from my point of view:

-- Child timeline: hero's bloodline; the hero himself carries on a lineage
-- Adult timeline: knights' bloodline; the hero goes to the child timeline, legends of a knights' bloodline arise in lieu of an actual hero lineage

[Jumbie]

1) Kokiri Forest has the Deku Tree, in the two depictions we've had of it.

If he's not there in ALttP, he must have died. Why? Because he isn't there.

2) Gerudo Valley has a valley and a river running through it, in the only depiction we've had of it.

The river's flow was redirected in ALttP to go around Hyrule Castle.

4) Fire Temple has lava, in the only depiction of it in the series.

The Temple is pretty deep down, so Link might not necessarily access it in ALttP's caves.

5) Water Temple is underwater, in both depictions.

Sure, as it would be in ALttP. I'm saying it's located below the island with the Pond of Happiness (or how it's called).

7) Desert Colossus has a Colossus.

The Colossus would be recrafted into three worms' heads, of course. Why? Because the boss worms may have appeared inside the temple, so the Gerudo wanted to warn anyone from entering.

In other words, none of the places I mentioned actually exist in ALttP, nor do they have equivalents upon which they are based; you're just picking out places that exist roughly where these places should be.

Which doesn't really help your position; anyone can do that.

I know. That's why I never use this to justify my timeline, but rather for explaining away the geographical differences that result from my game order.

As for the maps, I really don't think that KoRL had anything to do with them, or he'd at least mention it while you're hunting for them. More likely, it was some random mapmaker who knew where they were and preserved maps for them after the flood.

Um... Tingle? He's the only one in TWW who can decipher the Triforce charts. Maybe because his ancestor actually made them.
You know, that's why NoA stated that the Legend of the Fairy does have storyline significance

Of course, Triumph Forks may be a real object, considering that a book in TMC tells you how to find them.

Oh, okay. That's what it means. I thought that the "paradox" was referring to something different.

It is. Read this.

TWW Link was chosen by destiny, as were LoZ Link and probably most of the other ones. TP Link and ALttP Link were chosen by bloodline specifically.

They may as well have been chosen by destiny AND have been born into the bloodline, too. The bloodline certainly doesn't need to lead the way for destiny to select a hero.

"A paradox is an apparently true statement or group of statements that leads to a contradiction or a situation which defies intuition."

Hmm, in literary studies I was taught that it's an apparently wrong statement that has a deeper truth.

[CID Farwin]

Cool. Those look just like the ones I...WAIT A SECOND!

It is. Read this.

I have. That's what I thought it meant. I don't really see the paradox, though.

[Showsni]

If an evil person gets the trifroce, the Prophecy of the Great Cataclysm kicks in; and that hero has to be of the knight's bloodline. However, they don't have to appear immediately; in ALttP, it's a very long time between the evil one getting the triforce and the hero's appearance, with much loss along the way. So this negates the point about no hero appearing in TWW's backstory.

But, furthermore, the prophecy only applies when an evil person gets the entire triforce, it seems. Which has only happened in ALttP; so none of the other Link need necessarily be from the knight's bloodline anyway, though it would be nice to think that they are.

However, the knight's bloodline must always continue, as there is always the possibility of an evil person getting the triforce; and then the PotGC forces the hero that then arises to be from the bloodline.

So, no Links but the ALttP one have to come from the bloodline. But the bloodline must exist during the time of each other Link; so it makes more sense that they do come from the bloodline, anyway.

Even if the knights don't exist, their bloodline can continue. As far as most TWW people are concerned, the royal family died out long ago. But the bloodline carries on in Tetra. Bloodline magic is a very strong power in the Legend of Zelda (just look at the sages). Presumably, it always finds a way. (Like migrating from a Zora to a Rito somehow...)

[CID Farwin]

All good points.

(Like migrating from a Zora to a Rito somehow...)

Fish to bird; That's about as far opposite as you can get.

So, no Links but the ALttP one have to come from the bloodline. But the bloodline must exist during the time of each other Link; so it makes more sense that they do come from the bloodline, anyway.

Occam's Razor at work.

But, furthermore, the prophecy only applies when an evil person gets the entire triforce, it seems. Which has only happened in ALttP; so none of the other Link need necessarily be from the knight's bloodline anyway, though it would be nice to think that they are.

Well, there is this quote from Sahasrala(or however the heck you spell his name.)

Generations ago, an order of
knights protected the Hylian
royalty. These Knights of
Hyrule were also guardians
of the Pendant of Courage.
It has been said that whenever
disaster waylays the royal
family, a Hero shall emerge
from the bloodline of the
Knights of Hyrule...
Unfortunately, most of them
were destroyed in the great
war against evil that took
place when the seven sages
created their seal, so it was
thought that a hero would
never again emerge...

It says basically the same thing as the PotGC, just without the great cataclysm part.

[Jean-vic]

I have my own timeline. It goes like this:

OoT/MM -> TP -> WW/PH

That's it. The other games have two many inconsistencies to be considered canon, IMO. I mean, The Hero of Time is supposedly the same Link in LOZ and AoL. How is that right when he knows nothing of his role?? As far as I am concerned, only the games that reach the consoles, such as the ones above me, are canon and part of the timelin The others just don't fit, IMO. Apparently LOZ is centuries after OoT yet Impa is in it. That makes no sense to me.

Edited by Jean-vic, 30 October 2007 - 10:28 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

I have my own timeline. It goes like this:

OoT/MM -> TP -> WW/PH

That's it. The other games have two many inconsistencies to be considered canon, IMO. I mean, The Hero of Time is supposedly the same Link in LOZ and AoL. How is that right when he knows nothing of his role?? As far as I am concerned, only the games that reach the consoles, such as the ones above me, are canon and part of the timelin The others just don't fit, IMO. Apparently LOZ is centuries after OoT yet Impa is in it. That makes no sense to me.

....You're kidding, right? LOZ/AOL Link is not the same as the Hero of Time, first of all. There's multiple Links over Hyrule's history. Furthermore, you failed to list SEVERAL games that reached consoles, so what are you blathering about?

And what, there can't be two Impas? Especially considering that they're separate species? If some of the games are going to be discredited as canon due to inconsistencies, it should be the newer ones since LOZ/AOL were here first.

[Jean-vic]

Hey, I just don't understand the need to create timelines and make theories. Everyone can have an opinion and that is their opinion. My timeline is the games I mentioned. Anyone else is free to put whatever they want in there. Put Smash Bros in if you want. Personally, I don't like to categorise these games as canon, in my gamership, because of inconsistencies. Doesn't mean it applies to you, so calm down.

[Fëanen]

Hey, I just don't understand the need to create timelines and make theories. Everyone can have an opinion and that is their opinion. My timeline is the games I mentioned. Anyone else is free to put whatever they want in there. Put Smash Bros in if you want. Personally, I don't like to categorise these games as canon, in my gamership, because of inconsistencies. Doesn't mean it applies to you, so calm down.

While that's a fine (if unorthodox) opinion...it doesn't exactly mesh with the general purpose of this forum, which is to sort out (or at least attempt to sort out) the series as a whole. The series meaning all the official games.

Naturally, if you just have OoT and other directly related games, the timeline's easy to come by. But...unfortunately, you'll have very little to say in this forum then, because inevitably the entire spectrum of the canon is involved in any storyline debate. Not just the 3D games...

(Holy crap, I haven't posted here in years. Yeah, I'm still alive...)

Edit: Holy shit, I didn't notice that this thread had been revived, since there were several recent posts. Er...yeah, its lifespan may not be long anyway...

Edited by Fëanen, 31 October 2007 - 07:23 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

As Feanen said, the purpose of the board is to place ALL canon games into a timeline. You may exclude games if you want, but that's not what's considered canon and won't get you very far in discussions, here. It'd be like going into a Christian Bible Study without accepting the New Testament.

[Jean-vic]

I'm just saying the timelines don't work. I mean split timeline doesn't work and the one timeline theory has caused a lot of problems for people. It's just easier to go with the CREATOR'S timeline IMO. And a timeline can never properly be made because more games will come and throw spanners into the works. I mean, what comes first, TP or LOZ. There's no way of determining it so I why bother.

Anyway, never meant to annoy anyone. Seems already like I'm being a hinderance to people.

[MikePetersSucks]

I'm just saying the timelines don't work. I mean split timeline doesn't work and the one timeline theory has caused a lot of problems for people.

We're well aware.

It's just easier to go with the CREATOR'S timeline IMO.

Yea, too bad there is none. That's why we're coming up with our own.

And a timeline can never properly be made because more games will come and throw spanners into the works. I mean, what comes first, TP or LOZ. There's no way of determining it so I why bother.

Well, that's why we refer to the evidence provided in the games, such as hints that prove that LTTP comes before LOZ, and inferences that lead us to believe in a OOT/MM > TP > LTTP timeline.

[SOAP]

I'm just saying the timelines don't work.

I can understand that sentiment but the reasons behind is what doesn't make sense. It's never been said ever that Link from LoZ and OoT are the same Link and or the Impas from LoZ and OoT for that matter. A more legitimate argument would be the contradictions between OoT and the IW, especially in light of TWW and TP. In fact, it's because of TWW and TP, some people are begining to think they're actually two seperate timelines, both contianing OoT. One contains everything pre-MM the other contains everything post-MM with TWW and TP at opposite ends of a split. Everything post FSA is kinda up in the air though.

[LionHarted]

If he's not there in ALttP, he must have died. Why? Because he isn't there.

When the Great Deku Tree dies, the forest becomes cursed. I don't recall any forests being cursed, aside from temporarily in TP and FSA when the light was stolen from it, and in TMC.

The river's flow was redirected in ALttP to go around Hyrule Castle.

So where's the valley? That's what I'm asking.

The Temple is pretty deep down, so Link might not necessarily access it in ALttP's caves.

You argued that the cave system represented the Fire Temple. I take it you're withdrawing that argument?

Sure, as it would be in ALttP. I'm saying it's located below the island with the Pond of Happiness (or how it's called).

That's highly possible.

The Colossus would be recrafted into three worms' heads, of course. Why? Because the boss worms may have appeared inside the temple, so the Gerudo wanted to warn anyone from entering.

The Colossus was constructed with three worm heads prior to ALttP, and there were no boss worms there. (FSA)

[Showsni]

Don't revive three month old threads, please. If you want to bring up your timeline, start a new thread.