135 replies to this topic

[Evilsbane]

Just like all the arguements that say they're the same. "like, oh my god, they both transport people." We have multiple unrelated magical swords, magical canes, magical medallions, magical ocarinas, etcetera. Why can't we have unrelated magical mirrors?

We can. It's just not certain that we DO.

[Arturo]

Except for that there are no hints for them being the same. But oh well, since they are mirrors, they aree the same. No matter how different in function.

Edited by Arturo, 03 July 2007 - 05:46 AM.

[Person]

I suppose the fact that the Twilight Mirror gets...I dunno... split into a bajillion pieces at the end of TP doesn't prove that it's not the same mirror as the magic mirror. Nope. No way.

[TheAvengerLever]

Not to those who still think that TP goes into a different timeline than Alttp.

[Arturo]

Because the mirror is obviously not teared to pieces after Hyrule's destruction in TWW

[Evilsbane]

Because the mirror is obviously not teared to pieces after Hyrule's destruction in TWW

What is your deal? I'm not saying they're the same, I'm saying they MIGHT be the same. And they might. That's it. Why is it that people on these forums are more prone to superiority complexes than in other Zelda forums? You'd swear I'd just insulted your family or something.

[Arturo]

Lesson 1:

Sarcasm=/=Arrogance

Sarcasm is just a way of expressing yourself. Instead of saying:

The mirror in TP can't be the same as in ALttP because it would be torn to pieces during Hyrule's destruction in TWW

You say:

Because the mirror is obviously not torn to pieces after Hyrule's destruction in TWW

If you don't like sarcasm, you'll have to deal with it, because you will find it all over your life. Honestly, I find a little bit childish feeling offended about such an harmless comment. But that's just my opinion. It's not law.

And I believe I am right. If I didn't believe it, the discussion would be pointless. It would be like:

They might be the same

Ok, you are right, they might be the same

I think they might be the same

etc.

Edited by Arturo, 03 July 2007 - 05:43 AM.

[CID Farwin]

it's nice to have a gentle reminder of why I love it here.

Not to those who still think that TP goes into a different timeline than Alttp.

I beg your pardon. I think ALttP happenes in another timeline, yet this only provides a possibility for them to be the same, it seems pretty riddiculous to say they're the same mirror.

someone explain HOW TP leads right into ALttP. Maybe I just missed something.

But then it isn't the Golden Land by definition.

Art doesn't mean anything. Hell, clothing colors don't even match up. "Where the sky shines gold, not blue."

And that's not even taking into account that the Golden Land thing is exclusively North American, so it doesn't matter either way.

so WHY the Ganon are you still arguing!?!?!?

What, is there someone here saying otherwise? If someone's running into their backyard looking for the Master Sword, I think we have bigger issues than what color the sky in the Golden Realm is or what the hell Agahnim's supposed to be. Someone call the Psych Ward.

Nobody's saying that explicitly. And if anyone looks in their backyard for the Master Sword, then that person in a Moron, because the Master sword is in the Temple of Time. Or in the Lost Woods. Or both.Duh. I'm saying that people seem to be acting like Hyrule actually exists *somewhere.* And we can't call the psych ward, because then they'd get stuck in this conversation, and then who'd pick up all the loonies?

So in short: (including your nit-pickyness) there's no substantial argument against me saying the Sacred Realm makes an appearance in TP.

Except for that there are no hints for them being the same. But oh well, since they are mirrors, they aree the same. No matter how different in function.

exactly and also 'Except for that there are no hints for them being the same. But oh well, since they are mirrors worlds that aren't the Light World, they are the same. No matter how different in function.'

It's nice to know I can count on people to word my arguments right

Oh, and I just realied that there's something I need to add to my signature.

[MikePetersSucks]

so WHY the Ganon are you still arguing!?!?!?

Hey, don't look at me, you're the one who wanted to put his bits in after I offered to drop it.

someone explain HOW TP leads right into ALttP. Maybe I just missed something.

I wouldn't know, since I don't argue it, but I would think such arguments like how TP neatly provides a transition from a Temple to a Forest for the Master Sword's resting place.

exactly and also 'Except for that there are no hints for them being the same. But oh well, since they are worlds that aren't the Light World, they are the same. No matter how different in function.'

Win.

there's no substantial argument against me saying the Sacred Realm makes an appearance in TP.

Neither is there a substantial argument FOR. Occam's Razor kicks in. I win.

[Evilsbane]

Neither is there a substantial argument FOR. Occam's Razor kicks in. I win.

Pick a number between 1 and 1,000,000...

[CID Farwin]

Neither is there a substantial argument FOR. Occam's Razor kicks in. I win.

no, an inate sense of skepticism kicks in.
My point is that there's no real argument either way, and I can say it is and you can't argue.

then again you can say it isn't and then I can argue.

Win.

By the way, I was referring to Dark World/Twilight Realm.

I wouldn't know, since I don't argue it, but I would think such arguments like how TP neatly provides a transition from a Temple to a Forest for the Master Sword's resting place.

At which arguments I would bring up how Ganondorf dies at the end.

[MikePetersSucks]

Ganon dies at the end. So what? He can just reincarnate and just do the things he needs to do for the backstory. It's not like anyone's claiming TP is the Imprisoning War.

[Fyxe]

No, but OoT is. Or was meant to be. Or still is because there's three timelines oh noes.

[MikePetersSucks]

Well, if you're putting a game in between OOT/MM and LTTP in the first place, you probably don't support the OOT=IW thing very much.

[Person]

Exactly why the IW can't be OoT, at least in its entirety.

[Arturo]

Or why there is no real timeline...

[Person]

There is a timeline, it's just very, very, very messed up.

[MikePetersSucks]

I always figured it was easier to have the Imprisoning War be it's own story, anyway.

[CID Farwin]

What's easiest for me is to have the perspective of the game. so When I play

TP: "hey coo,l it comes after the child ending of OoT."
TWW: "Hey cool, it comes after the adult ending of OoT."
OoT: "Hey cool, it's the imprisoning war."

So in other words, it's respective of the games. OoT doesn't necessarily relate to ALttP, but it is the imprisoning war.

er, I think I worded that badly.

[MikePetersSucks]

OoT doesn't necessarily relate to ALttP, but it is the imprisoning war.

Impossible. No game involving Ganon can come inbetween the Imprisoning War and LTTP.

[Fyxe]

I think you're missing CID's point somewhat, MPS.

OoT was intended as the Imprisoning War. Thus it's the Imprisoning War. He's talking about playing each game in it's own context, historically and in regards to developer intention at the time of release.

Whether it is still the IW in the grand scheme of things is irrelevant to that, especially since we don't know.

Three timelines. It's gonna happen.

Edited by Fyxe, 11 July 2007 - 07:09 PM.

[CID Farwin]

OoT was intended as the Imprisoning War. Thus it's the Imprisoning War. He's talking about playing each game in it's own context, historically and in regards to developer intention at the time of release.

Exactly. It's just easier that way. That's also how I argue

Three timelines. It's gonna happen.

Sadly, yes. If they can pull it off in a way that doesn't suck, I probably won't mind so much.

[LionHarted]

Who said the Imprisoning War related to ALttP at all, aside from explaining:

1) Why the Sacred Realm is sealed
2) Why Agahnim is going after the maidens
3) Who the hell Ganon is

Edited by LionHarted, 11 July 2007 - 08:15 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

Who said the Imprisoning War related to ALttP at all

Um, the fact that it's only mentioned in reference to LTTP? DUH?

[LionHarted]

Um, the fact that it's only mentioned in reference to LTTP?

Actually, it's mentioned in OoT (which was designed to tell the story) and TWW (which tells the story of OoT). Never called by that name, of course, but it is never called that by name in ALttP either (just its manual).

Of course, this is to be expected, since the sealing of Ganon in OoT only has immediate relevance to TWW, and the sealing of the Sacred Realm only has immediate relevance to ALttP. Why would it be mentioned in any other game? No other irrelevant events are mentioned in a particular game's storyline.

In fact, outside of OoT and ALttP, none of the games that are in the timeline of the Ganon-sealing (Adult) even mention the Sacred Realm at all. Its obscurity may be due to the fact that it's sealed. And its relevance to TP may also be due to the fact that it's... not?

Edited by LionHarted, 11 July 2007 - 08:49 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

Actually, it's mentioned in OoT (which was designed to tell the story) and TWW (which tells the story of OoT). Never called by that name, of course, but it is never called that by name in ALttP either (just its manual).

That's only if you hold OOT is the Imprisoning War. And I WAS speaking distinctly about it being referred by name. Allusions to it's events don't count.

[LionHarted]

And I WAS speaking distinctly about it being referred by name.

In that case.

No game refers to it.

Edited by LionHarted, 12 July 2007 - 01:27 AM.

[MikePetersSucks]

LTTP does, but then I consider the manual a sort of "part" of the game.

[LionHarted]

LTTP does, but then I consider the manual a sort of "part" of the game.

ALttP mentions the SEAL in reference to ALttP.
It mentions the Imprisoning War as being the name of the conflict in which the seal was cast.

Naturally, no other games mention it; no other games have anything to do with the seal. That does not change the fact that hundreds of years still passed in between the war and ALttP in which a number of things could have easily happened that don't have anything to do with ALttP, especially if they decided to represent the IW in OoT (and the story writers admit to this; there is no denying it), and then decided to rewrite OoT as the center of the series, not ALttP.

[ZimZum]

Agahnim is Ganon's alter-ego, a wizard who came from desert possessig power so great that he was able to resolve the natural disasters which were menacing Hyrule. It isn't made clear if he is possessed, a puppet or Ganon himself in a disguised form, all we have from the game is that he is Ganon's alter-ego. I think it is likely that he is just a powerful wizard who colluded with Ganon, much like Zant and Vaati in exchange for power and dominion. Who exactly he was I don't think we'll ever know as it is unlikely he'll re-appear in any future games.