143 replies to this topic

[Toxin]

i think Ganondorf should cast a spell on link that would mess up. so instead of killing him or whatever he would change body's with Zelda. that way he would be still link but he would be a girl.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

I've just realised something.

This game will never happen. And if it would, it would resemble something like Super Princess Peach. It would be nothing like the original game and ridiculously easy in comparison.

[Chaltab]

I've just realised something.

This game will never happen. And if it would, it would resemble something like Super Princess Peach. It would be nothing like the original game and ridiculously easy in comparison.

If you were playing as Zelda, probably.

If Link just so happened to be a girl because of storyline reasons, I see no reason for ti to be ridiculously easy.

[SOAP]

I don't think it'd be more easy with Zelda as the heroine. Unless it was a DS title with TWW art style. Otherwise I think it'd be more puzzle/magic based instead of action/dungeon crawling though it'd still have a good measure of the latter. Think OoA, with Zelda instead of Link.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Well, I am judging this from what Nintendo did with Princess Peach and you must admit Super Princess Peach is easier than any of the traditional Mario games.

[Duke Serkol]

I repeat that I don't think princesses and swordplay mix well.
On another hand though, weird as even I may find it, I enjoyed Super Princess Peach more than New Super Mario Bros (probably because I didn't really see what was "New" about it). I guess difficulty isn't the main factor for me when appreciating games.
Fortunately I also like Yoshi's Island DS more than both of the above.

[Hero of Legend]

I repeat that I don't think princesses and swordplay mix well.

Why? Because of some stereotype? It's not like Zelda follows that norm as it is anyway.

Well, I am judging this from what Nintendo did with Princess Peach and you must admit Super Princess Peach is easier than any of the traditional Mario games.

Well, Yoshi's Island (the original) worked out quite well, didn't it?

[Masamune]

I think I'd rather play with an adult Tetra than as Zelda. The concept of the "Warrior Princess" is such a tired concept. I'm sure Zelda can hold her own and everything, but somehow that seems like it would take away from the character of Zelda. Even if she had those Hawt-Pants from the cartoon.

I realize Tetra IS Zelda, of course. But as a character, she's a pirate instead of a princess. That's a world of difference there.

[Fyxe]

Is everyone forgetting Zelda's kick-assitude in Smash Bros. Melee? And the fact that she weilds a sword in Twilight Princess?

And that she can turn into Sheik?

Controlling Zelda would be awesome, quite frankly. Not sure if I'd choose it over other possibilities (I was always disappointed by the lack of Gerudo Mask in Majora's Mask as another transformation, c'mon, it'd be awesome), but it's work fine and it'd allow you to fight in an entirely different style.

[Hero of Legend]

I think I'd rather play with an adult Tetra than as Zelda. The concept of the "Warrior Princess" is such a tired concept. I'm sure Zelda can hold her own and everything, but somehow that seems like it would take away from the character of Zelda.

I realize Tetra IS Zelda, of course. But as a character, she's a pirate instead of a princess. That's a world of difference there.

That was kind of my point, actually. Zelda has had a dual nature for quite some time. While still being a princess, she's been both a pirate AND a ninja. And who here can say they would truly have been shocked if Midna had turned out to be Zelda (which many people speculated)? So really, who knows what Nintendo will come up with next?

So no, I don't think her, uh, character takes away from her character.

Of course I don't want any Exena bullcrap. That'd just be wrong.

I was always disappointed by the lack of Gerudo Mask in Majora's Mask as another transformation, c'mon, it'd be awesome

I know this wasn't what you were going for, but if he was a male Gerudo... Well, that'd be kinda interesting actually. Link could've been King, and stuff.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 31 May 2007 - 12:15 PM.

[Arturo]

It would have made him female... like the Fairy spell.

[Duke Serkol]

Why? Because of some stereotype?

Yes.
That and limits to suspension of disbelief. That a princess would be a swordfighter capable of taking on monsters like the ones fought by Link I mean (incidentally that's also why I'm usually against the "child hero" thing).

Is everyone forgetting Zelda's kick-assitude in Smash Bros. Melee?

No, I'm not forgetting, I just always found it rather silly (all the more with the ripping off of Link's magic from OoT rather than having her own). I'd love an action replay code that keeps the computer controlled Zelda always in Sheik mode. I agree with Masamune about Tetra being a very different character than Princess Zelda (whole different raising) and Sheik as well (Sheikah training).

And the fact that she weilds a sword in Twilight Princess?

Which was never used much to my content

Edited by Duke Serkol, 31 May 2007 - 02:50 PM.

[Hero of Legend]

It would have made him female... like the Fairy spell.

I was thinking if he found a male Gerudo mask.

But yes, indeed, Link HAS been a girl. Nice.

Yes.
That and limits to suspension of disbelief. That a princess would be a swordfighter capable of taking on monsters like the ones fought by Link I mean (incidentally that's also why I'm usually against the "child hero" thing).

I'm sorry, but that excuse is kinda weak. I mean, an adolescent farmboy with no real sword training can fight monsters and save the world, but a princess can't, simply because she's a princess? Come on, it's not like there's any real realism to these games as it is. Again, I'm sorry, but if your argument is simply "princesses traditionally don't learn to fight" and some kind of sexism, then that's not really going to cut it, in my opinion.

I agree with Masamune about Tetra being a very different character than Princess Zelda (whole different raising) and Sheik as well (Sheikah training).

So? That's still Zelda. I never said she had to be some wuss princess, and the games have never shown this to be the case.

Which was never used much to my content

That might have to do with her only appearing three times in the game, two of which were conversations. She obviously can use it, and you know it. She's quite good with the bow, too.

[Selena]

Serkol:

Erm... but as Masa also pointed out, "Sheik" and "Tetra" are still both Princess Zelda. The only difference is the clothing. I'm not really seeing the logic. If Zelda's a main character, her background doesn't necessarily have to be that she was raised in Hyrule Castle and decided to become warrior princess one day. Nor does it mean that in order to fight she has to be raised by barbarian wolves. "Sheik" was raised as a fair (but tomboyish) princess for many years before she presumably learned to fight. A Zelda doesn't exactly have a set personality or history behind her. You can do almost anything with her background story if it's a brand new game. Have her raised as a Sheikah again. Have her chased out of the castle and then let her be reared by Gerudo women after she makes an alias for herself.

Call her what you like - Tetra, Sheik, whatever - but they're all still Princess Zelda.

As for the stereotype, that's been done away with for a long time. Fair maidens have been able to fight for themselves in both games, movies and literature for decades. Eowyn, for example.

[Koroks Rock]

Um, last I read, Tolkien didn't ever actually have Eowyn fight. The whole sword thing was interpreted in by the movies- in the books she was just a really good rider. So she's a bad example.

I do agree that the "child warrior" thing is kinda ridiculous. I don't care if it's a little boy or a little girl- they shouldn't be able to hand a full-grown moblin. WW Ganon makes it pretty clear that Tetra and Link are physically insignificant, especially compared to him (the whole Darth Vader-style strangulation thing). As an adult, Zelda has never been depicted as buff. Shiek had muscles, but Zelda's, well... practically translucent. Medieval swords were extremely heavy, and every time a sword has been dropped in a Zelda game they give a nasty clang indicating their weight.

What I'm trying to say that Zelda should, if playable, have an entirely different method of fighting than Link. He's the kid blessed with the inability to worry about getting hurt or killed (wait, that's a blessing?), she's the one gifted with great wisdom. Let her cast nifty complex spells, take advantage of stealth, talk other people into doing her dirty work. She does two of those already with the light arrows and sending Link out to do the questing. And Sheik is sneaky.

I've always wondered about the fairies. Are they really female? We've never seen a male fairy, and the WW fairies don't even have legs. Do they actually reproduce at all or do they fount out of fountains?

[Selena]

*grabs book off nearby shelf* I don't know, mine says Eowyn rode into a huge battle and stabbed a dreaded Witch-King through the head with her sword after taking a hard hit to her shield arm. So, actually, I'd say she's indeed good example of a fair maiden who can pull her own weight in a fight and get out of the castle for a change. Whatever the case, she's certainly no Arwen or any other wussy female figure. But whatever. I'm not terribly obsessed with Tolkien. She just came to mind.



I do concur that if Zelda were to be a main character, it'd be good to have different equipment. Not necessarily banish a sword outright. A broadsword is only one of a thousand different types. When I think of Zelda fighting, I'm more inclined to think of her as Sheik, so I supposed I'd prefer throwing knives and some lightweight blade. A wakizashi or something along those lines. Lots to chose from. Far faster and more agile than Link. She'd be just fine with a bow and boomerang as additional equipment. And magic. *shrug* Maybe instead of Link going around collecting medallions/triforce pieces/shiny objects from temples, it can be Zelda going into the temples to recover tomes for spells that are the only attacks that can defeat the end boss in conjunction with normal equipment. More than just the goddess spells. Bring back the quake spells and the rest. It's Zelda, so she's more magical thank Link would be anyway.

[Koroks Rock]

Ah, my apologies, you are quite right. Shows why people shouldn't browse forums after allnighter design jobs.

[Duke Serkol]

I could put down a longer reply, but Koroks Rocks already said it all.

So I'll just set this straight:

an adolescent farmboy with no real sword training can fight monsters and save the world, but a princess can't, simply because she's a princess? Come on, it's not like there's any real realism to these games as it is. Again, I'm sorry, but if your argument is simply "princesses traditionally don't learn to fight" and some kind of sexism

I'm not being sexist, I'm being realistic. Princesses are traditionally brought up without ever hefting heavy objects. As KR as mentioned, Zelda's arms are typically near transparent. An "adolescent farmboy" as you put it, is a completely different customer. An aolescent farmgirl too, despite the light constitution would be definitely better off as a fighter than a sheltered egg.

So don't come tell me I'm being sexist. If anything I'm speaking of social classes here, not gender.

[Showsni]

I've always wondered about the fairies. Are they really female? We've never seen a male fairy, and the WW fairies don't even have legs. Do they actually reproduce at all or do they fount out of fountains?

The cartoon/comics have male fairies, and reproduction among them. (And possible cross-species relationships... Spryte certainly likes Link...)

Plus Tael's male, of course. It seems to follow Peter Pan rules - male fairies are mauve, female white. (And blue are unsure, in Peter Pan...)

And since there are male fairies, the fairy spell probably makes Link into a male fairy. But they only had one sprite.

Edited by Showsni, 31 May 2007 - 07:28 PM.

[Chiaki]

I've always wondered about the fairies. Are they really female? We've never seen a male fairy, and the WW fairies don't even have legs. Do they actually reproduce at all or do they fount out of fountains?

Well...my guess is that male fairies are either very uncommon, or are just feminine enough for anyone to not notice. There HAS been one male fairy; Tael, Tatl's brother in Majora's Mask. The black/purple one.

As for Zelda fighting, it would be much better if she used mostly magic-based attacks, kind of like she did in SSBM; heck, she could probably even use a staff instead of a sword, or possibly even have some magic powered Light sword. Either way, magic based.

One thing that would be kind of cool is if the story went something like...actually, a bit Paper Mario-ish, like where Zelda is captured, but she still manages to find a way to cause trouble for Ganaondorf, either by her own actions, or with the help of a traitor. Ganondorf can't (or won't) kill Zelda, though, because he needs her for something or another. Meanwhile, Link is doing his thing with exploring temples and finding important stuff, blah blah blah.

Something along those lines anyway. I think a Zelda/Link cooperative thing would be a bit too RPG-ish, and odds are, you;d end up using one character more than the other.

Or we could take the Sonic route, and be able to play the game from Link's perspective, or Zelda's, but you'd have to do them both to unlock the final ending.

[SOAP]

I've always wondered about the fairies. Are they really female? We've never seen a male fairy, and the WW fairies don't even have legs. Do they actually reproduce at all or do they fount out of fountains?

Oh God, Teal people. I know he didn't really do much in MM but has everyone forgotten him?

[Masamune]

Actually the difference between Tetra and Sheik is...

Sheik is an alias for Zelda. Zelda is an alias for Tetra.

[SL the Pyro]

I'm beginning to think that controlling Sheik and Zelda would be a bad idea. We're talking about female starts here; the problem is that when Zelda transforms into Sheik, she becomes male as long as she holds the transformation. If that were to work, you'd either haveto make Zelda's Sheik form female or have no Sheik at all.

Actually the difference between Tetra and Sheik is...

Sheik is an alias for Zelda. Zelda is an alias for Tetra.

That could probably be worked in the Zelda Timeline forum if it hasn't been already.

Edited by Shadow_Link, 01 June 2007 - 07:40 AM.

[Koroks Rock]

Ooh, don't open the "is Sheik a male or just looks like one" argument. That can rage on for thousands of posts (seen it happen, been a part of it, don't want to do it again).

About Tael, he's from Termina. We know that Termina has slightly different rules than Hyrule (just look at the moon), and the lack of any male fairies in the other games is just odd. What was the filesize of Navi's sprite? I think it was 4k total, wings and all? I haven't browsed the OoT files in a while. But the fact is, making some of the fairies mauve in WW, 4SA, TP, or Minish would have been obscenely trivial. I assumed they didn't do so for a reason.

And the cartoons don't count, we all know that. I have the DVDs, and have watched them. If we use them as canon we should use the BS Zelda's too, which we've already established as them-that-should-not-be-mentioned.

[Duke Serkol]

Tael's male, of course. It seems to follow Peter Pan rules - male fairies are mauve, female white. (And blue are unsure, in Peter Pan...)

Blue fairies are gay? Or do you mean you are not sure what they are? Or that the book never cleared that up?

[Fyxe]

And since there are male fairies, the fairy spell probably makes Link into a male fairy. But they only had one sprite.

Depicted as a female fairy in the official art as well, mind you. Male fairies or not, Link turns into a female.

If we use them as canon we should use the BS Zelda's too, which we've already established as them-that-should-not-be-mentioned.

Excuse me, where this bollocks coming from? I assume you mean the Cd-i games?

[Koroks Rock]

Yeah, sorry, fixed in edit. Sleep now.

[Mystic Kitsune]

I have never seen the official art, so I can't really add much to the statement. Where'd you see it?

I don't know why there is such a debate. As said before ( I think ) Link barely talks, and well, I don't think it'd make too much of a difference.

[Hero of Legend]

I'm not being sexist, I'm being realistic. Princesses are traditionally brought up without ever hefting heavy objects. As KR as mentioned, Zelda's arms are typically near transparent. An "adolescent farmboy" as you put it, is a completely different customer. An aolescent farmgirl too, despite the light constitution would be definitely better off as a fighter than a sheltered egg.

So don't come tell me I'm being sexist. If anything I'm speaking of social classes here, not gender.

Apparently you didn't notice the parts about ‘fighting monsters’ and ‘saving the world’, which are not, you know, realistic. Zelda canon doesn't even follow those rules of yours, so it’s not like there's an argument to begin with.

As for being sexist, you are continuing a discriminating tradition from the middle ages, which doesn't even apply to modern fiction. So yeah, I stand by my statement.

By the way, physical appearance typically has nothing to do with physical strength, or else Link would never have been able to overpower Ganondorf when they lock swords in TP. People generally don’t fly and use magic either, when I think about it.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 01 June 2007 - 02:56 PM.

[SOAP]

Ooh, don't open the "is Sheik a male or just looks like one" argument. That can rage on for thousands of posts (seen it happen, been a part of it, don't want to do it again).

About Tael, he's from Termina. We know that Termina has slightly different rules than Hyrule (just look at the moon), and the lack of any male fairies in the other games is just odd. What was the filesize of Navi's sprite? I think it was 4k total, wings and all? I haven't browsed the OoT files in a while. But the fact is, making some of the fairies mauve in WW, 4SA, TP, or Minish would have been obscenely trivial. I assumed they didn't do so for a reason.

And the cartoons don't count, we all know that. I have the DVDs, and have watched them. If we use them as canon we should use the BS Zelda's too, which we've already established as them-that-should-not-be-mentioned.

Even so, you guys act like there's never been a male fairy introduced into the Zelda series ever. Also, how do you know he and Tatl are native from Termina. There's some implication that Skillkid is the same from Hyrule and by that extension Teal and Tatl might be from Hyrule as well.

Also... Wasn't Teal Mauve?

Edited by SOAP, 01 June 2007 - 02:58 PM.