128 replies to this topic

[TempleMaster]

God is real and out there. History will tell you that Jesus himself was here and died two thosand years ago. It is up to you weather or not you believe in God or not. For some it is easy, for others it is hard. God is real and the denial of his exsistence is just the enemy trying to blind us from seeing the truth. If you will open your mind and consider yourself. What sets us apart from animals (Don't bring the theory of evolution into this part. Whether or not you believe in evoloution or creation is up to you.) Consider this though. What sets us apart from animals is the knowledge that we have. God has taken time to make every single one of us and there is not one person here who is without a purpose. God has a purpose for every individual. Your not here by a cosmic accident, your here because God made it so that you would be here. His love for everyone on earth is greater than anyone can imagine and he has his arms open ready to recieve anyone who trusts him. If you need to know that he is there though, why not ask for a touch? You can feel in your heart and know that he is there.

[wisp]

The reason you don't see the proff is because your not opening your mind to the possiblities.

No, the reason we don't see the proof is that it's not really proof. These 'proofs' you are offering do seem like they could possibly be related to Biblical events, but it's also possible (perhaps even probable in some cases) that they are totally unrelated to the book, like Meep said.

According to the Bible, as TempleMaster said, faith is "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." According to the dictionary, faith is simply "belief that is not based on proof." So, from a religious standpoint, most people do believe their faith to be proof enough of their religious convictions, whereas in fact, faith is inherently lacking in... proof.

[Reflectionist]

Then I see it as convincing youself to believe things you know may not be true. That is so backwards to me. We have these incredibly powerful minds and people would prefer to just ignore them.

For having such powerful minds, how much, percentage wise, do you think we know about the Earth and how it works?

Maybe 20-30%?

Seriously, for all the talk about how great science is and how much it proves God doesn't exist, it never once dawns on people that Science may be the way God created the Earth to work. Nobody ever says, "Gee, what an awesome process God has created with Photosynthesis" they just give you the science of it, and think that there's no God factor to it at all.

Again I cite Newton's laws. 'An object at rest will remain at rest until it is acted upon by an OUTSIDE FORCE."

So that screams God to me, because what better way for an object to begin a motion than by the hand of an omniscient, omnipresent being?

And you say "Well you can't see God, so he must not be real."

Wow, guess air isn't real then.

And if you could see God, so much for free will, yes? If God just showed up in the corner of a crowded room, what do you think people would do? You think they would believe then? You're darn right they would. Everyone in the room would get on their face in fear of God.

It explicitly states in the bible that God didn't want that. He wanted us to worship Him out of love, and not fear. So that's why He doesn't show himself in person to you. He'll definitely tug at your conscious and tug at your thoughts and your heart though, if you're willing to listen.

But you're not, so don't worry about it.

According to the Bible, as TempleMaster said, faith is "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." According to the dictionary, faith is simply "belief that is not based on proof." So, from a religious standpoint, most people do believe their faith to be proof enough of their religious convictions, whereas in fact, faith is inherently lacking in... proof.

So if I have faith that the sun is going to rise tomorrow, then it might not because there's no proof that it does?

Edited by Reflectionist, 03 May 2007 - 01:32 PM.

[vodkamaru]

What sets us apart from animals is...

...an increased mental capacity. I think I'm done with contro. This shit is the biggest waste of time.

Seriously, for all the talk about how great science is and how much it proves God doesn't exist, it never once dawns on people that Science may be the way God created the Earth to work.

What the fuck are you talking about. Read that sentence and think about the words you're using. Science doesn't prove that god doesn't exist. And saying that science may be the way god created the earth to work... What does that mean? Crap like this is driving me fucking crazy. There's no conversation its just a bunch of fucking words...

Edited by vodkamaru, 03 May 2007 - 01:31 PM.

[TempleMaster]

Let me ask you this. Do you believe what you've read? Such as do you believe that there was an Abraham Lincoln or a George Washington or that Rome fell in history? Do you believe in the American Revolution, World War I? Where did find these things and believe them if you didn't even see them. Did you read them from the history books? The Bible has been proven as a historical book and you find this book harder to believe than what you've seen in another historical book?

[Reflectionist]

Let me ask you this. Do you believe what you've read? Such as do you believe that there was an Abraham Lincoln or a George Washington or that Rome fell in history? Do you believe in the American Revolution, World War I? Where did find these things and believe them if you didn't even see them. Did you read them from the history books? The Bible has been proven as a historical book and you find this book harder to believe than what you've seen in another historical book?

It's because US History books don't challenge someone to make a U turn in life. People are afraid of change dude.

[TempleMaster]

Yes, but why did we come here to fight in the first place. It was for freedom of religion. The Bible doesn't want to change you. It wants to provide you with a better way of your life or a better world by your choice. You have a free will in what you want to choose and this is just setting examples for us to follow. Does anyone like to be lied to or cheated? The Bible is as much of a moral hand book as it is historically.

[vodkamaru]

Let me ask you this. Do you believe what you've read? Such as do you believe that there was an Abraham Lincoln or a George Washington or that Rome fell in history? Do you believe in the American Revolution, World War I? Where did find these things and believe them if you didn't even see them. Did you read them from the history books? The Bible has been proven as a historical book and you find this book harder to believe than what you've seen in another historical book?

What about the quran, the vedas, the Theravada, the Mahayana, or any other religions sacred text. I don't believe what they have to say either. Just because it's in a book doesn't mean a fucking thing.

[Reflectionist]

Yes, but why did we come here to fight in the first place. It was for freedom of religion. The Bible doesn't want to change you. It wants to provide you with a better way of your life or a better world by your choice. You have a free will in what you want to choose and this is just setting examples for us to follow. Does anyone like to be lied to or cheated? The Bible is as much of a moral hand book as it is historically.

If the Bible doesn't want to change you, then why use it to argue relgion at all? You couldn't. Yes, it's part history, and yes, it's part morals, but if you're not following those morals, wouldn't the point be to change so you do?

[TempleMaster]

But, does their religion have a risen savior like the Christian Faith? Who do they worship? Our God is a God of love who sent his son to die for our sins. While he did this, he doesn't force any of us to choose a way of life, but just offers his love freely. I realize that this life sounds like change, but think of what you would really be loosing in the change. Your not loosing anything of improtance and infact gaining life more abundantly.

[Reflectionist]

...an increased mental capacity. I think I'm done with contro. This shit is the biggest waste of time.
What the fuck are you talking about. Read that sentence and think about the words you're using. Science doesn't prove that god doesn't exist. And saying that science may be the way god created the earth to work... What does that mean? Crap like this is driving me fucking crazy. There's no conversation its just a bunch of fucking words...

I wasnt specifically talking about you with that sentence. So chill. And stop cussion, you suck at it.

I meant it as in people cite science as the biggest reason why God doesn't exist. And I don't think it has to. You said you didn't believe in Him, I'm wanting to know why, and just trying to cover my bases. Just calm down, no reason to get moody, I don't have a problem with you, so stop acting like I'm trying to lead some freakin crusade. I'm not.

I'm not even mad that you referred to me as 'who fucking cares.' Because that more or less describes your lack of intelligence and maturity that you resort to profanity to get your point across, but that's cool. I don't care.

Edited by Reflectionist, 03 May 2007 - 01:45 PM.

[TempleMaster]

I'm not out to cause trouble as well. I'm just here to help you see things from a different point of view. I'm just voicing my opinion here right now.

[vodkamaru]

You said you didn't believe in Him, I'm wanting to know why.

I don't believe in Greek, Roman, Norse, Indian, or Incan gods either. You don't seem to care why I don't believe in those gods (as I'm sure you don't either). I don't believe in the Judeo-Christian god because, to me, its just tribal superstition just like the other gods that cultures believed in the past.

If I were to tell you that I had a UFO in my garage you'd want proof right? So I bring you over and open up the garage door and you don't see anything. Probably won't believe me right? What if I tell you its invisible? You'd probably try to walk up and touch it, but then I tell you its incorporeal so you can't feel it either. You'd probably think my belief in the UFO is unreasonable and maybe call me crazy. I doubt you'd sit there and say well I guess I should just have faith and open my mind up to the idea of the invisible, incorporeal UFO. The point being that the person with the extraordinary claim needs the proof to back it up. Saying "you just need to have faith" is like saying "you just need to force yourself to believe" and that doesn't jive with me.

And stop cussion, you suck at it.

How can you be bad at cussing? You just say fuck and shit a lot...

Edited by vodkamaru, 03 May 2007 - 02:01 PM.

[TempleMaster]

Rules of the site tell us not to curse if you would. Cursing only shows seriousness and I see it.

My question to you is, do you want to believe in God?

[vodkamaru]

I want Truth.

And you say "Well you can't see God, so he must not be real."

He's as real as my UFO, ghosts, and unicorns.

Lets turn this around too. For all of you believers, have you ever "opened up your mind" to the idea that there is no god?

Edited by vodkamaru, 03 May 2007 - 02:07 PM.

[TempleMaster]

Have you ever been saved or heard the message of God told?

You have a good question and I'll tell you I have, but found the truth that he is there.

Edited by TempleMaster, 03 May 2007 - 02:11 PM.

[Meep]

Anyone who's grown up in the western world has heard the 'christian message'.

And why does a 'risen saviour' make your faith so different? Life is just nature's way of keeping meat fresh.

[vodkamaru]

Have you ever been saved or heard the message of God told?

I was raised Catholic and went to catholic school until college. I know a thing or two about God's word. As far as being saved goes, I don't even know what that entails.

[vodkamaru]

Life is just nature's way of keeping meat fresh.

That deserves its own tshirt and bumper sticker.

[Meep]

I stole it from Doctor Who. =P

[vodkamaru]

Life is just nature's way of keeping meat fresh.

That deserves its own tshirt and bumper sticker.

Too late.

[TempleMaster]

That's good. You know about the Bible so why would you not want to believe that God is real?

[Meep]

Because the Bible provides a lot of lovely rhetoric and very, very little in the way of proof.

[vodkamaru]

That's good. You know about the Bible so why would you not want to believe that God is real?

Are you really confused as to why, since I know about the bible, I don't believe in god? I've studied the bible. It doesn't prove the existence of god, nor does it simply imply gods existence because it was written. Theres more to it than that one book.

[TempleMaster]

The only way I can give you proff is what you feel. like stated earlier, you can't see God, you have to feel him. Have you tried talking with him, honestly talking with him or saying a prayer to him? He's right there with you now and watching you with love waiting for you.

[Arturo]

Because it is an irrational belief. For some people believing something that isn't rational goes against their principles.

But I am a Catholic.

[TempleMaster]

Have you ever really wanted to find live, peace and happiness? I'm not talking about joining a church or finding religion. I'm asking if you had ever wanted to find life and peace and happiness through Jesus Christ?

[Meep]

Have you ever thought that you can do all that without religion?

[TempleMaster]

God doesn't judge you on what religion you come from. He sees you in your walk with Christ. He sent his son to die for us. I'm not talking about finding a religion. The only thing you need to be a Christian is to believe whole heartidly in the Bible and love God with all your heart as well as live according to his word.

[TempleMaster]

There is only one way to be saved and that is to profess Jesus our saviour and ask forgiveness of our sins. There is no other way to get to heaven other than that.