138 replies to this topic

[Duke Serkol]

Ah, I must have missed that post. Interesting ideas... though it has the downside that the Gods apparently didn't plan ahead (though that could be counter argued by saying they may have wanted to make an example of the Interlopers, I suppose).

[Chaltab]

Well, lack of foresight isn't an uncommon trait among fictional dieties. One can say that even leaving behind something as powerful as the Triforce or the Light Force wasn't terribly smart of them.

[Fyxe]

The fact that you have to jump from game to game to get the Master Sword makes it's existence logically incoherent from a storyline standpoint as well,

You only have to 'jump' from game to game if you want to get the Master Sword in the *first* game you played. If you link the Oracle games together, getting the Master Sword in the second game is a fairly logical thing, it merely requires that Link do some things after the ending of the first game you play before he visits the next world. Then all you need to do is to take the code with you.

Unless I'm misremembering.

I've always argued that the Oracle games take place after ALttP anyway, and KnS was technically the first game to break the 'forever' rule. Although I doubt it and the Oracles will be the last, either.

[Chaltab]

Hm? You're probably right. I just lost my copy of Ages, and started the linked Seasons game with a password I got off the Internet, so I'm really not sure exaclty how a person got the MS.

And I'm sort of ambiguous about the "Forever Rule"... It was contradicted in KNS shortly after ALTTP was released, but the canonical status of that game is iffy. It's only in my timeline for completion's sake (and acknowledging KNS's existence was a litmus test of your Zelda nerditude at the time I made it.)

Edited by Chaltab, 07 April 2007 - 07:46 PM.

[FDL]

Well, lack of foresight isn't an uncommon trait among fictional dieties. One can say that even leaving behind something as powerful as the Triforce or the Light Force wasn't terribly smart of them.

That's a really good point, and something I've argued for in the past. We can't say that every single thing in the games were planned by the gods, because there's [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] that says that's not true. No gods are perfect, and no god(at least in fiction) micro-manages every little thing in the world.

[MikePetersSucks]

Can't remember the last time you made a post that wasn't just an angry statement about something. So you 'shut the hell' up yourself if you've got nothing better to say.

Try "yesterday"

Well, lack of foresight isn't an uncommon trait among fictional dieties. One can say that even leaving behind something as powerful as the Triforce or the Light Force wasn't terribly smart of them.

1) That applies to real deities too. Oh wait, they're all fictional. Lawl.

2) The Goddesses had nothing to do with the Light Force, that was the Minish.

That's a really good point, and something I've argued for in the past. We can't say that every single thing in the games were planned by the gods, because there's [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] that says that's not true. No gods are perfect, and no god(at least in fiction) micro-manages every little thing in the world.

Says who? I can think of five examples off the top of my head of even demigods planning every little nitty-gritty detail, and I could probably think of more if I actually took the time to think about it.

Also, lawlz, Destiny.

[Fyxe]

Try "yesterday"

I checked, didn't see anything. ¬.¬

LAWLZ.

Yeesk, definitely not using that word again. I feel unclean.

[FDL]

Oh, I figured I'd mention something I overlooked before. While this isn't any definitive proof, neither Zant nor Midna make any mention of the interlopers being from somewhere other than Hyrule. Zant, in fact, is given the perfect chance to say so and he still doesn't. He refers to his people merely as a tribe that mastered magic. Oh, and Ganondorf saying they were "cast aside" has less meaning if they didn't have an existing relationship with the gods.

[Chaltab]

Oh, I figured I'd mention something I overlooked before. While this isn't any definitive proof, neither Zant nor Midna make any mention of the interlopers being from somewhere other than Hyrule. Zant, in fact, is given the perfect chance to say so and he still doesn't. He refers to his people merely as a tribe that mastered magic. Oh, and Ganondorf saying they were "cast aside" has less meaning if they didn't have an existing relationship with the gods.

That's also a good point. Although given the few Triforce symbols in Termina, it's possible that they could have know about the goddesses even from that realm.

[Duke Serkol]

That's also a good point. Although given the few Triforce symbols in Termina, it's possible that they could have know about the goddesses even from that realm.

Yep. In fact, several people noted the resemblances between Zant and the Garo Master, and we know the Garo tried to take over Ikana, which is exactly where those few Triforce symbols are seen.

[Chaltab]

Well, if this is true it bites for the premise of my fanfiction, but it's nice to see that Nintendo is including Majora's Mask concepts in a Triforce-saga title--other than frickin' Tingle.

[Fyxe]

Yep. In fact, several people noted the resemblances between Zant and the Garo Master, and we know the Garo tried to take over Ikana, which is exactly where those few Triforce symbols are seen.

I completely FORGOT about the Garo Master. Nicely spotted. I knew Zant's fighting style reminded me of something other than just Majora.

[Duke Serkol]

Of course Zant can at best be classified as a Garo Master on crack given the way he swings those swords of his, but hey, that's Zant

[Hero of Legend]

I completely FORGOT about the Garo Master. Nicely spotted. I knew Zant's fighting style reminded me of something other than just Majora.

Argh! I told you about that! I! Damn infidel, you dare forget about me?!

...

[FDL]

That's also a good point. Although given the few Triforce symbols in Termina, it's possible that they could have know about the goddesses even from that realm.

But he still probably would have said something else about it when he was given the chance if they wanted us to believe they were from Termina. Again, I'll say, the only piece of evidence which is brought up time and time again actually proves nothing. Yes, they say they were interlopers but the game also calls Ganondorf an "invader" and he's definetly of the same world. This theory is pretty much baseless, and as such cannot be used to contradict other theories.

Yep. In fact, several people noted the resemblances between Zant and the Garo Master, and we know the Garo tried to take over Ikana, which is exactly where those few Triforce symbols are seen.

I'm not sure about that. Is it ever said that the Garo were actually taking over Ikana? Because I was under the impression that they were just agents for whoever was doing that, but the Garo themselves weren't the ones with the ambition to do so.

Argh! I told you about that! I! Damn infidel, you dare forget about me?!

...

Ah, tough break again. I wonder if Fyxe does this purposefully to irritate you?

[Fyxe]

But he still probably would have said something else about it when he was given the chance if they wanted us to believe they were from Termina. Again, I'll say, the only piece of evidence which is brought up time and time again actually proves nothing. Yes, they say they were interlopers but the game also calls Ganondorf an "invader" and he's definetly of the same world. This theory is pretty much baseless, and as such cannot be used to contradict other theories.

You have to admit, the similarities between the Twili and elements of Majora's Mask are hard to ignore completely. Then again, there's the Shadow Link similarity as well.

I'm not sure about that. Is it ever said that the Garo were actually taking over Ikana? Because I was under the impression that they were just agents for whoever was doing that, but the Garo themselves weren't the ones with the ambition to do so.

I thought it was specifically the Garo against Igos Du Ikana, but I might be wrong. Of course, they're all *dead*, anyway.

Ah, tough break again. I wonder if Fyxe does this purposefully to irritate you?

I wouldn't put it past myself. o.o I think it's more to do with my memory being rubbish, however.

[FDL]

You have to admit, the similarities between the Twili and elements of Majora's Mask are hard to ignore completely. Then again, there's the Shadow Link similarity as well.

Perhaps visually. But visuals can't always be used as timeline confirmation I think, considering how Ganondorf is portrayed in TWW's opening. No one seems to use that as confirmation that TWW is after LoZ or ALttP. But the tribe of Majora's Mask, which is far more similar to the Twili in comparison to the Garo, isn't even necessarily from Termina.

I thought it was specifically the Garo against Igos Du Ikana, but I might be wrong. Of course, they're all *dead*, anyway.

You may be right. Although there are very little similarities between the Garo and Twili regardless.

[Duke Serkol]

You have to admit, the similarities between the Twili and elements of Majora's Mask are hard to ignore completely. Then again, there's the Shadow Link similarity as well.

Rather than that, one could argue that the Interlopers may have been Hyrule's own ancient vanished tribe that trifled with masks and hexing rituals (in the same way as the pirates are Termina's own desert thieves)
...but I don't

I thought it was specifically the Garo against Igos Du Ikana, but I might be wrong.

I don't think you are wrong.

[Hero of Legend]

The Garo are ninja spies sent to watch over Ikana, according to MM. We don't know if they were part of the ones who tried to conquer the kingdom or if the originated from Termina, though.

As for the Garo-ilarity of Zant... Also note that the Garo Master wears robes and a metal mask that... Well, you get the point. It appears Nintendo did indeed do this purposely. Whether it will play part in a future game's is another matter.

But the tribe of Majora's Mask, which is far more similar to the Twili in comparison to the Garo, isn't even necessarily from Termina.

They are both called dark tribes. That's about it for a connection. I'm not against the idea, but there really isn't as much evidence as you claim.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 12 April 2007 - 01:49 PM.

[Fyxe]

I think you ignore the fact that their ancient power, the Fused Shadows, is so rediculously similar to Majora's Mask it's got to at *least* be a homage.

[Hero of Legend]

True, I'll give you that.

[Duke Serkol]

We also have a Majora looking bunch of monkeys in TP for no other discernible reason than to go "WTF?" though, we should keep note of that.

[FDL]

They are both called dark tribes. That's about it for a connection. I'm not against the idea, but there really isn't as much evidence as you claim.

No, I agree, I was saying that for the benefit of Serkol who appears to think that the Twili are Terminian.

I think you ignore the fact that their ancient power, the Fused Shadows, is so rediculously similar to Majora's Mask it's got to at *least* be a homage.

It's not that similar....

We also have a Majora looking bunch of monkeys in TP for no other discernible reason than to go "WTF?" though, we should keep note of that.

They don't really look like Majora at all. You;re reading far too much into this if you really think they look like an evil mask.

[Duke Serkol]

I'm not the one who noticed, it has been pointed out and debated in another thread.

[Fyxe]

About the monkeys... They look like the monkeys did in Majora's Mask. That's pretty much it. TP uses the same graphical style as OoT and MM.

[LionHarted]

I don't see a similarity between the Fused Shadows and Majora's Mask.

:/

[Fyxe]

I don't see a similarity between the Fused Shadows and Majora's Mask.

Do I have to spell it out?

It's fairly obvious stuff.

[LionHarted]

Yes, you do have to spell it out.

[FDL]

I'm not the one who noticed, it has been pointed out and debated in another thread.

Okay.

About the monkeys... They look like the monkeys did in Majora's Mask. That's pretty much it. TP uses the same graphical style as OoT and MM.

But they don't look like Majora, which is what I thought Serkol was saying.

[Duke Serkol]

About the monkeys... They look like the monkeys did in Majora's Mask. That's pretty much it. TP uses the same graphical style as OoT and MM.

Sigh...

 majorama.jpg   127.59K   8 downloads

Yes Fyxe, they are totally the same, especially the eyes with furless points, mouth, heart shaped head, tatoos and generally everything.

But they don't look like Majora, which is what I thought Serkol was saying.

I'm a nice guy, so here's another picture for you:
 majorization.jpg   101.39K   6 downloads


Oh and guys, let's not forget the names:
Magic Emperor Majora
Twilight Princess Midna

Also, regard this as an excessive stretch if you will, but Midna says when confronting Zant that he was not accepted by their people because they saw the same greed in his eyes to which they lost their ancestor's king.
Majora was obsessed with conuming everything when he took over the moon (remember him saying "Consume, I shall consume everything!"?).
Might just be something more than a mere coincidene...

Edited by Duke Serkol, 12 April 2007 - 09:05 PM.