138 replies to this topic

[MikePetersSucks]

We don't need any more bloody acronyms.

YEA! WDNMBA!

[Duke Serkol]

I vote this for best Zelda thread ever.

[Fyxe]

FPT it is!

It's because of you that babies are shot.

[Chaltab]

I vote this for best Zelda thread ever.

Let's see. We've had someone compare Zelda Single-Timeliners to Holocaust deniers, and Godwin's Law didn't even kick in. We've had Fyxe... do that rude thing she usually does, and we've had two people at each others throats come to a vague truce. You may just be right. (Then again, I may be biased as I started the thread.)

We've already said Shigeru Miyamoto never really cared about storyline as much as gameplay; being a games designer his priority was to make the adventures as engaging and playable for the audience as possible. That's why Zelda franchise is often considered the epitome of that specific genre.

That's what ought to be Aonuma's priority as well. (I don't think you meant to imply that he's slacking off, but that's how it comes across.)

Disregarding what the creators say shows us you don't care about a Zelda chronology in the first place.

Buh!? If I didn't care about the chronology, I wouldn't be here at this site. I just don't like the Split Timeline theory. I used to be a splitter until I saw the ending of Wind Waker, but after that it feels like the writers just wrote themselves into a corner and are now using the split as a cop-out.

And no, until the games openly declare a split timeline, I won't really consider it official, because the games themselves Drumpf creator interviews.

[Fyxe]

We've had Fyxe... do that rude thing she usually does,

I did NOT have sex in public.

[Hero of Slime]

The split does seem like a cop out to me too. It's like the creators used it in order to relate more games back to OoT.

I don't see how a game can reference the split though? Since one reality will heve no knowledge that the other exists.

[Chaltab]

I did NOT have sex in public.

Can you prove it?

The split does seem like a cop out to me too. It's like the creators used it in order to relate more games back to OoT.

I don't see how a game can reference the split though? Since one reality will heve no knowledge that the other exists.

Hm, good point. Well, I am a sucker for crossovers. But I digress. And yeah, I hope the Zelda staff gets out of their OOT=GOD phase soon. I'm not disrespecting OOT by any means, but it's not the only game in the series, and it's not the only masterpiece in the series. Why not make a game that takes a cue from ALTTP or Majora's Mask? (And I mean a direct cue, like the Pyramid of Power or something involving Majora's dark tribe.)

Edited by Chaltab, 30 March 2007 - 07:21 PM.

[Duke Serkol]

Let's see. We've had someone compare Zelda Single-Timeliners to Holocaust deniers, and Godwin's Law didn't even kick in. We've had Fyxe... do that rude thing she usually does, and we've had two people at each others throats come to a vague truce. You may just be right. (Then again, I may be biased as I started the thread.)

It did not turn out as it was planned, I'm sure, but the streak of humor it got was teh awesome.

[Fyxe]

something involving Majora's dark tribe.

One could argue this has happened already.

[Duke Serkol]

Stop talking about me already.

[The Missing Link]

Can you prove it?
Hm, good point. Well, I am a sucker for crossovers. But I digress. And yeah, I hope the Zelda staff gets out of their OOT=GOD phase soon. I'm not disrespecting OOT by any means, but it's not the only game in the series, and it's not the only masterpiece in the series. Why not make a game that takes a cue from ALTTP or Majora's Mask? (And I mean a direct cue, like the Pyramid of Power or something involving Majora's dark tribe.)

Agreed. I'm frankly tired of Ocarina of Time. I wrote a ZBlog article about that very thing towards the turn of this year. I'm hoping that Twilight is able to become the new basis for Zelda stuffs and that we get out of Ocarina mode.

It's because of you that babies are shot.

This is true; you can't have a gun without you; then it'd just be "gn".

[Chaltab]

It did not turn out as it was planned, I'm sure, but the streak of humor it got was teh awesome.

Hm? Where?

[Fyxe]

This is true; you can't have a gun without you; then it'd just be "gn".

*Tumbleweed*

[MikePetersSucks]

Heheheh. Hey Beavis...she said Weed.

[CID Farwin]

Agreed. I'm frankly tired of Ocarina of Time. I wrote a ZBlog article about that very thing towards the turn of this year. I'm hoping that Twilight is able to become the new basis for Zelda stuffs and that we get out of Ocarina mode.

I would like to see something just plain NEW. Maybe more games directed at the old ones, and that sort of stuff, but I just want something new.

Edited by CID Farwin, 31 March 2007 - 08:03 PM.

[Kairu Hakubi]

I'm still single timeline!
The idea that G-dorf's execution in TP was post-OoT is so ridiculous to me I can't even come up with proof. All's I'm gonna say is, they made a lot of stuff in TP identical or near-identical to OoT when it was meant to be the same exact thing. When they made it different, it wasn't supposed to be. This 'dorf is clearly meant to be transitional between the burly bearded windwaker-ganondorf and the babyfaced young wizard from OoT.

[Duke Serkol]

It's not really an April fool... but here you go. To commemorate the end of a civilization:
 Aonumalypto.jpg   146.76K   14 downloads

Edited by Duke Serkol, 01 April 2007 - 01:06 PM.

[Chaltab]

I'm still single timeline!
The idea that G-dorf's execution in TP was post-OoT is so ridiculous to me I can't even come up with proof. All's I'm gonna say is, they made a lot of stuff in TP identical or near-identical to OoT when it was meant to be the same exact thing. When they made it different, it wasn't supposed to be. This 'dorf is clearly meant to be transitional between the burly bearded windwaker-ganondorf and the babyfaced young wizard from OoT.

My thought on Ganondorf:

This TP Ganondorf the Ganondorf of Ocarina of Time, seven years younger and having never touched the Triforce.

Rather than admitting that his desire for Hyrule was essentially coveting their easier life-style, the fact that Twilight Princess Ganondorf was literally just handed the Triforce of Power on his deathbed (er... death rock, I guess) means that he literally believes himself to be chosen by the Goddesses as Hyrule's ruler, hence his little monologue before you fight him.

Personally, I don't think it was the Goddesses that granted him the Triforce of Power; I think it was the Sealed Ganondorf from the final battle of Ocarina of Time. Motive? If Ganondorf of TP went after the rest of it, assuming it was in the Sacred Realm still, he'd let his older evil alternate self out. Of course that didn't pan out and he ended up with nothing more than the Master Sword through his sternum.

[Fyxe]

the fact that Twilight Princess Ganondorf was literally just handed the Triforce of Power on his deathbed

Didn't happen.

[Chaltab]

Didn't happen.

I beg your pardon? Did you miss the whole 'Excecution... yup, he's dead... Oh, wait, he's not!' cut scene?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you're saying he had it already before they killed him? To which I would reply:

If he already had the Triforce of Power, why hadn't he broken out of prison? Why did the sages even try to excecute him? How did they get him chained to the rock if he had within him the power to break the chains?

[Fyxe]

I'll respond with a question of my own.

If he already had the Triforce of Power, why had he lost to Link at the top of Ganon's Tower? Why had he coughed up blood and collapsed? Why did he destroy the whole tower instead of turning into a demon and just throwing Link off the edge? Why did he crush himself in the ruins of his own tower before transforming?

[Chaltab]

I'll respond with a question of my own.

If he already had the Triforce of Power, why had he lost to Link at the top of Ganon's Tower? Why had he coughed up blood and collapsed? Why did he destroy the whole tower instead of turning into a demon and just throwing Link off the edge? Why did he crush himself in the ruins of his own tower before transforming?

In the climax of Ocarina of Time, Link had the Triforce of Courage and the Master Sword. He's the chosen hero with the power to defeat whatever evil Hyrule faces. Ganondorf clearly underestimated him in the fight and transformed into Ganon as a last-ditch effort to save his life. Similarly, Link appears to have the ToC and defintiely has the Master Sword in Twilight Princess, and is able to defeat Ganondorf.

But it was explicit that he already had the Triforce of Power in Ocarina. Whether he already had it in Twilight Princess isn't explicit. However, whether you like Split Timeline or Single Timeline, it seems unlikely that he could have had it in the Child Timeline, because in that timeline he never entered the sacred realm.

Edited by Chaltab, 02 April 2007 - 04:15 PM.

[FDL]

I'll respond with a question of my own.

If he already had the Triforce of Power, why had he lost to Link at the top of Ganon's Tower? Why had he coughed up blood and collapsed? Why did he destroy the whole tower instead of turning into a demon and just throwing Link off the edge? Why did he crush himself in the ruins of his own tower before transforming?

Fyxe=right. In this case, at least.

[Chaltab]

Fyxe=right. In this case, at least.

I already explained in my previous post why her question is irrelevant.

Triforce of Courage + Master Sword > Triforce of Power > Sages of the Arbiter's Grounds

Edited by Chaltab, 02 April 2007 - 04:18 PM.

[Hero of Legend]

The idea that G-dorf's execution in TP was post-OoT is so ridiculous to me I can't even come up with proof.

And the idea that it was pre-OoT just plain doesn't work. Neither does it after TWW, or in relation to any other game. So, supposedly nonsensical theory, or nonexistent theory?

In the climax of Ocarina of Time, Link had the Triforce of Courage and the Master Sword.

Funny that Link doesn't need the Master Sword to defeat Ganondorf in OoT, then.

See, it's not like Ganondorf is invulnerable to anything but the Master Sword. Any weapon infused with sacred power, such as the Light Arrows or, presumably, the sages' blade would work as well. Hell, Wolf Link worked. It's just these things don't kill him, as we have seen numerous times, including TP.

Why did the sages even try to excecute him?

Because they didn't know he had it, obviously.

it seems unlikely that he could have had it in the Child Timeline, because in that timeline he never entered the sacred realm.

Says who?

Edited by Hero of Legend, 02 April 2007 - 04:30 PM.

[Duke Serkol]

Give it up Chaltab. I tried but there's no changing their minds.
Or ours, I suppose

[FDL]

I already explained in my previous post why her question is irrelevant.

Triforce of Courage + Master Sword > Triforce of Power > Sages of the Arbiter's Grounds

You can use the Biggoron's Sword to take out Ganondorf. Hell, you can probably use the broken Giant's Knife. And Zelda says that he couldn't control the power of the gods. What more do you need? It's not like the Sages were actually able to kill him, but they were able to subdue him, which seems perfectly in accordance with OoT. So you honestly think that a group of ancient magical beings being capable of temporarily subduing a wizard-thief who can't even control his main power source is more absurd than the gods giving Ganondorf the Triforce when it's safely in the Sacred Realm? Really?

[Fyxe]

FDL is right. You have to understand that the Triforce splitting for no reason MAKES NO SENSE, and is not supported by any dialogue in the game whatsoever.

[The Missing Link]

Reason for Ganondorf being collapsed by the tower: Deus ex machina to make a two-part final boss as well as a thrilling escape sequence, Triforce of Power be damned.

[Chaltab]

And the idea that it was pre-OoT just plain doesn't work. Neither does it after TWW, or in relation to any other game. So, supposedly nonsensical theory, or nonexistent theory?
Funny that Link doesn't need the Master Sword to defeat Ganondorf in OoT, then.

See, it's not like Ganondorf is invulnerable to anything but the Master Sword. Any weapon infused with sacred power, such as the Light Arrows or, presumably, the sages' blade would work as well. Hell, Wolf Link worked. It's just these things don't kill him, as we have seen numerous times, including TP.

I didn't mean to imply that the Master Sword was the only WEAPON that could kill him, but rather that the fact that Link had both that, and the Triforce of Courage means that he is the chosen hero. And as such, he can defeat Ganon where the sages alone couldn't.

Because they didn't know he had it, obviously.

Fair enough.

So you honestly think that a group of ancient magical beings being capable of temporarily subduing a wizard-thief who can't even control his main power source is more absurd than the gods giving Ganondorf the Triforce when it's safely in the Sacred Realm? Really?

Of course not. I said that, based on the game text, Ganondorf thinks the gods granted him the Triforce of Power, that they chose him as eligible to have it. My suggestion was that it was not the gods at all, which is as you said, absurd, but rather the sealed Ganondorf from the future of Ocarina of Time.

FDL is right. You have to understand that the Triforce splitting for no reason MAKES NO SENSE, and is not supported by any dialogue in the game whatsoever.

It was already split in Ocarina of Time; we know it was split before the game even began, but there is no indication that Ganondorf of Twilight Princess actually possessed the Triforce of Power until his excecution. It's certainly possible though; however, this doesn't really change my theory, just the timing of when Ganondorf got the ToP.

Reason for Ganondorf being collapsed by the tower: Deus ex machina to make a two-part final boss as well as a thrilling escape sequence, Triforce of Power be damned.

Well, this is true too. It might be worth pointing out since the flashback in TP was pure story, whereas the battle with Ganondorf and Ganon in OOT was built around the gameplay and the two-phase battle.