112 replies to this topic

[SOAP]

^Not that that would be a bad thing though they'd probably just cut him from the waist down or do some nifty "hiding" tricks like they did in Austin Powers 2.

[Darunia]

Okay, I was reading over the "Observation on the Sages" thread and I started thinking, with all the debate over sages and how many and what their purpose is etc. it deems a closer look storyline wise.
 
Starting with OoT, we know of two sages which existed before that time, Kaepora Gaebora and Rauru.  Later in the game there are seven other sages who seal Ganon.
 
In WW there are four sages, two dead and two living, with the job of powering the Master Sword, these are arguably not related to the sages of OoT.
 
ALttP there are seven descendents of the sages, obviously not related to any of the previous sages known in the games because of their purely Hylian nature.  
 
This can imply a few things, in the multiple timeline theory it shows a different set of seven sages being called to seal Ganon in an Imprisoning War which is not represented in any of the games.  This imprisoning war would simply come in the time period between OoT and ALttP.  The two sages of WW are not related to the sages of either of the other games and reasonably so because of the timeline split during OoT.
 
In a single timeline it means that the Imprisoning War comes after WW and that a new set of sages are created at that time, all of Hylian descent.  There is no information regarding any of the other sages in any of the other games.  None of the sages are related whatsoever.  In either situation we have to assume the Imprisoning War comes directly before ALttP (chronologically speaking, there would of course be many hundreds of years between)  
 
Any critiques to this?  Any other ideas of this same vein?

After Link awakens from his 7 year slumber, Rauru points out that the SAGES built the Temple of Time as a stronghold against any evil-doers wishing to gain access to the Sacred Realm. What puzzles me is that I don't think that just TWO sages could have built that, now does anyone else?

[Showsni]

Can we go back to talking about the sages now?

My thoughts:
I'll talk about it in the order the games were releaesed, to avoid timeline debates.

Firstly, what is a "sage?" Basically, it's either a wise old man, or a kind of herb. In Zelda, obviously, the former. In LoZ, AoL and LttP we see the sages as typical sages - LoZ has the wise old men living in caves, and in AoL each town has its own wise sage. In LttP's backstory, the sages were again wise old men, who were gathered together by the king to pool their knowledge and create the seal on the Sacred Realm. From hereon, though, the view of sages changes. Somehow, the magic of the seal is maintained by the descendants of the sages who made it - the maidens in aLttP. The notion of a sage here seems to change to become a hereditary magical office, with little to do with age or wisdom. The Sages in OoT are purely hereditary magically based beings, as are those in TWW. Sages are now awakened to their position, and gain enormous powers simply by being a sage.

[MikePetersSucks]

well, in the older games, no one actually SEES them try and use magic, and it could be possible that those aren't THE Sages anyway, and that they're just old dudes, kinda like that one "Sage" in MM. (whatshisface) It's generally accepted that LOZ and AOL come after LTTP, right? anyway, we could say that when Link wished on the Triforce, he erased the Sages' powers since they were no longer needed to seal Ganon and whatnot. Also, the Old Sages in the LTTP backround seems to imply the OOT Sages, and the illustration only depicts them as Wise Men because of the tale being transfered by word of mouth. Also, the LTTP backstory Sages also have magical powers, since they made a freaking magic Seal and a Sword that repelled evil

[Showsni]

No, that's what I'm saying - the NES sages are just old men, they don't have particular magic powers. The only become THE sages when Nintendo changed its ideas about them to being some kind of magical group.

[Tri-Enforcer]

Ok, then, smart guy. How does Link get into an appropriately sized outfit the first time he goes into the future? Did Rauru come by with his tapes and pins and tailor up a new tunic, some pants, and then think "You know, he might just want his ears pierced" and then did that too? NO! That's utterly ridiculous. It's just one of those discrepencies we are all glad to ignore because if it didn't happen that way we'd see Link penis.

Well that just goes to show, why certain aspects of Zelda can't be taken too seriously or literally, because it's obvious the creators didn't. They just wanted a cool and simple time travel story, with loose ends they overlooked. Loose ends which they didn't think people would think much about.

[MikePetersSucks]

Yea. besides, it's the Sacred Realm. since He slept there for 7 YEARS, the whole heart reflecting property kinda rubbed off and changed some things to make him look a tad more heroic than a guy in a child's dress

[Tri-Enforcer]

Then why did you make your point about the clothes in the first place?

Honestly.... I didn't think of that before.

(Blackhawk) Seriously, as far as the heart reflecting property goes that wouldn't quite work. As far as ALttP goes all we see are non-human transformations, not simply a bit of "accesorising" in order to make the person better reflect their heart. Besides, if you believe that the Links share a lot in common then wouldn't he have just grown bunny ears?

That's a good point. So,the Sacred Realm had nothing to do with what Link was wearing when he was an adult. Also...if you look different in the Sacred Realm, you change back to your normal self when you leave it. Adult Link's adventure was totally outside the realm but he didn't change back to whatever he should've appeared as.

[MikePetersSucks]

Yea, and maybe since he was in the Temple of Light (is is sometimes described as being inbetween the realms, I think) It only reflected part of it so he would look humanoid, and I did state earlier (if you read my post carefully) that maybe since he was there for 7 YEARS, some of the effect stuck

[Tri-Enforcer]

Yea, and maybe since he was in the Temple of Light (is is sometimes described as being inbetween the realms, I think) It only reflected part of it so he would look humanoid, and I did state earlier (if you read my post carefully) that maybe since he was there for 7 YEARS, some of the effect stuck

Ganon was stuck in the Sacred Realm for generations but it's effects didn't "stick" to him physically, when he broke out. He still came out as a Gerudo and not whatever deformity he had when he was in the Sacred Realm (and no the SR has nothing to do with him changing to pig form...please...nobody think that).

[MikePetersSucks]

Ok, so my idea is stupid either way, it doesn't even MATTER! what was the original discussion, again?

[Tri-Enforcer]

Heh, the whole dark world thing came by via me rationalizing how there could be two Links, body and soul, during that 7 year period where Link was trapped in the Sacred Realm, thus making the time loop theory plausible. Then, the only argument I was met with was the clothing argument, which I think we've settled as a convenient game convention.

True...but we haven't settled anything on whether there's a loop and a Link double causing the loop. Well actually, I'm settled on that not being true. Anyway...this can be saved for another thread...so back to topic guys.