112 replies to this topic

[Tri-Enforcer]

Yeah Tri. OoT isn't a mistake. Link defeated Ganon and saved a whole bunch of people. How is that a mistake? Yeah, sure he had to give up seven years of his life, but don't you think that the results were well worth it? The only reason Link was sent back to his own time was that he and Zelda both knew he didn't "belong" in that time. And sure, she may have been a bit sympathetic for Link's lost childhood. But that doesn't mean everything they did was a mistake.

I'm, not saying Link defeating Ganon and saving the world was a mistake. The mistake was having Link touch the Master Sword, allowing Ganon entrance into the Sacred Realm. Ganon's 7 year conquest didn't have to happen if Zelda wasn't so frantic and unsure of what to do. She even admitted she didn't think that all that had transpired would happen. Now, Link gets the chance to correct that mistake when he goes back to the past. So Ganon will need to find some other way into the Sacred Realm. When the IW occurs Link may be a member of the Knights of Hyrule, which could help explain why he doesn't stand out in the LTTP backstory.

[SOAP]

It's not that I don't see your point Tri. In fact, I'll admit it's extremely logical and I can see how you would end up with such a conclusion. I just don't see a valid reason to believe the IW has anything to do with OoT if OoT, itself, was not the IW other than it would be "Really Cool." It could just as easily happen after any other game or before the whole series altogether. Why pin it after OoT?

[SOAP]

If the FS series is supposed to be first, then the Ganon LttP refers to is from that one. At least the Knights of Hyrule make an appearance in FS so it has that much going for it. OoT was only first because it was thought as the Imprisoning War. If it's not then there's no reason to place it first or connect it with IW at all.

[Tri-Enforcer]

If the FS series is supposed to be first, then the Ganon LttP refers to is from that one. At least the Knights of Hyrule make an appearance in FS so it has that much going for it. OoT was only first because it was thought as the Imprisoning War. If it's not then there's no reason to place it first or connect it with IW at all.

OOT apparently is the first time Ganon touched the Triforce or at least threatened it. It appears that the LTTP backstory depicts the IW as the 1st time Ganon threatened or touched the Triforce or even gained entry into the sacred realm, OOT seems thus far, to be the only game that depicts such an occurence. The Triforce doesn't even play a role in the FS games and in FSA Ganon is sealed in the Four Sword--not the Scared Realm. Also, there was an interview will Bill Trinnen (a Nintendo official and interpreter to Miyamoto), which was posted in the old forums. He confirmed that OOT was the IW. Of course you may say we can not always trust what Nintendo officials say, since they've changed their minds before--but you'd have to admit most signs point to OOT as the IW. I also have a theory that OOT is not the IW, but I don't fancy that theory as much, so I'm working on it.

[SOAP]

OOT apparently is the first time Ganon touched the Triforce or at least threatened it.  It appears that the LTTP backstory depicts the IW as the 1st time Ganon threatened or touched the Triforce or even gained entry into the sacred realm, OOT seems thus far, to be the only game that depicts such an occurence.  The Triforce doesn't even play a role in the FS games and in FSA Ganon is sealed in the Four Sword--not the Scared Realm.  Also, there was an interview will Bill Trinnen (a Nintendo official and interpreter to Miyamoto), which was posted in the old forums.  He confirmed that OOT was the IW.  Of course you may say we can not always trust what Nintendo officials say, since they've changed their minds before--but you'd have to admit most signs point to OOT as the IW.  I also have a theory that OOT is not the IW, but I don't fancy that theory as much, so I'm working on it.

Well if OoT is the IW, wouldn't it make sense if it took place during OoT? o.0 I'll elaborote more later...

[Tri-Enforcer]

Well if OoT is the IW, wouldn't it make sense if it took place during OoT? o.0 I'll elaborote more later...

Well, what we experience and play in OOT is the IW. The TWW backstory is referring to that particular IW of it's timeline (The one we played; OOT). The other IW on the other timeline is a differerent IW and occurs differently...that one is explained by the LTTP backstory. Think of the IW on the LTTP timeline to be a different game or maybe just the backstory of a game (LTTP). So in at least one iteration of the IW is OOT, while the other isn't OOT. You see.

[Tri-Enforcer]

Tri-Enforcer, I'm guessing you're using the term IW for convenience and clarity's sake, but in the WW it's never referred to as such. It can be thought of as the Imprisoning War in that timeline, but nobody ever calls it that. ALttP is the only game that ever mentions the war as far as I can remember.

That's true...maybe in the TWW timeline the people have a different name of it...or it's just forgotten..or it just don't matter--whatever the case it is what we saw in OOT. Basically, the war that Ganon first touched the Triforce and was also imprisoned in the Sacred Realm--happened on both timelines only in different ways. Ya happy now Blackhawk? LOL

[SOAP]

But how do you know the same thing happened in the other timeline? How do you know Ganon is even still a threat in the alternate timeline? The IW of LttP could just as easily happen in a different era with a different incarnation of Ganondorf. Remember, FS threw us a wild card when it proved that Ganon can be reborn as a human. How do we know OoT Ganondorf isn't just another reincarnation of the original Ganondorf Dragmire? OoT doesn't neccessarily have to be first ya' know.

[Tri-Enforcer]

But how do you know the same thing happened in the other timeline? How do you know Ganon is even still a threat in the alternate timeline? The IW of LttP could just as easily happen in a different era with a different incarnation of Ganondorf. Remember, FS threw us a wild card when it proved that Ganon can be reborn as a human. How do we know OoT Ganondorf isn't just another reincarnation of the original Ganondorf Dragmire? OoT doesn't neccessarily have to be first ya' know.

I think I asked you this before: How do we know that Ganon is NOT a threat when Link returns to the past--? We don't know. We can only speculate and that is why this issue has risen so much debate. Also, I never said OOT was the first, I said that it is the first occurence of Ganon touching the Triforce and later being sealed in the Golden/Sacred/Dark Realm.

[Tri-Enforcer]

Nobody knows exactly what happens in the alternate timeline or if it's exactly the same. Odds are however that it doesn't happen the same. Actually, it's likely that the IW proceeded to happen the way it's described in ALttP. Ganon is still a threat because he's still a threat, I don't exactly know how else to say it.

I was cracking up at this one, Blackhawk. Here's why they say Ganon wasn't a threat when Link returned to the past...many people believe that Link was returned to a point sometime after Ganon went inside of the Sacred Realm, while Ganon was still inside, Link closed the door on him! Kinda anti-climatic ain't it!

[SOAP]

I think I asked you this before: How do we know that Ganon is NOT a threat when Link returns to the past--?  We don't know.  We can only speculate and that is why this issue has risen so much debate.  Also, I never said OOT was the first, I said that it is the first occurence of Ganon touching the Triforce and later being sealed in the Golden/Sacred/Dark Realm.

Yes. Just speculation. A very good speculation and a hard one to disprove. But a hard one to prove also since we really don't know what happens after MM. Whether or not Ganon remains a threat is totally depended on which point of time Link was returned to. If he was returned to after Ganon already escaped the Sacred Realm or before he even had a chance to enter yet, then yes he's still a big threat. HOWEVER, if Link was returned BEFORE Ganon left the Sacred Realm, Ganon would've gotten stuck in there. when the Door of Time closed after Link left. That, in itself is an Imprisonment of sort. No war. No Sages. No Knights of Hyrule. And no casualties except the Great Deku Tree.

And besides, I really don't think Link would risk going on a personal side quest if he knew Ganon would still be a threat.

I was cracking up at this one, Blackhawk.  Here's why they say Ganon wasn't a threat when Link returned to the past...many people believe that Link was returned to a point sometime after Ganon went inside of the Sacred Realm, while Ganon was still inside, Link closed the door on him!  Kinda anti-climatic ain't it!

Yes very. But not as bad as having a climax we don't even see. Now your theory is good if you want to make an overall novel to tie the series together. But it's not the only approach you can go with.

[SOAP]

Holy crap, how does someone come up with an idea like that and stick with it?  Anti-climatic ain't the half of it, sure, if this were a humor game that would be great, I can just imagine Ganon turning around after he gets in, pounding on the door and screaming "Hey! I'm still in here!"  Besides, that wouldn't be grounds for him getting so upset in the rest of the games.

LMFAO! Well luckily I don't "stick" with just one theory. I have many; [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of them are no different than Tri-enforcer's in fact.

[Tri-Enforcer]

Holy crap, how does someone come up with an idea like that and stick with it? Anti-climatic ain't the half of it, sure, if this were a humor game that would be great, I can just imagine Ganon turning around after he gets in, pounding on the door and screaming "Hey! I'm still in here!" Besides, that wouldn't be grounds for him getting so upset in the rest of the games.

It reminds of the intro to the Flintstones, when Fred gets locked out by Dino... and he bangs on the door yelling "Welma...!" In this case, "You rotten kid!!"

(Mario Jr)
And besides, I really don't think Link would risk going on a personal side quest if he knew Ganon would still be a threat.

Link didn't know he'd be side tracked for awhile...he happened upon the portal to Termina by mistake...he didn't know what he was getting into. Also, with Ganon's plans thwarted...Ganon is laying low devising his next scheme.

[SOAP]

Wait a tick! I thought it was the sabertooth tiger they kept as a cat or something...

[Tri-Enforcer]

Wait a tick! I thought it was the sabertooth tiger they kept as a cat or something...

He was a pet too I think...but Dino was the main pet...we always saw...I forget exactly which one locks out Fred

Back on point though:

(Blackhawk) But on a more serious note and addressing the "Ganon got locked out of Hyrule while he was away" theory, he really wouldn't know who locked him in, he would have no idea of the sages, and thus wouldn't particularly want revenge on anybody in particluar.

Good point.

(Blackhawk) "Ah man, Koume and Kotake are going to be worried sick if I don't check in with em...and my cell phone doesn't have a signal here...man am I gonna get it when I get back..."

Even better point!

[SOAP]

Well this is rather pointless. We're debating about stuff we don't even know happened or not. The next Zelda for Gamecube better clear some of this stuff up or I'll be majorly pissed.

[Tri-Enforcer]

Well this is rather pointless. We're debating about stuff we don't even know happened or not. The next Zelda for Gamecube better clear some of this stuff up or I'll be majorly pissed.

I wouldn't call it pointless...cuz much of the talk in these forums is speculation.... It wouldn't be much of a debate or enticing if everything was just given to us. At least some speculation that is somewhat backed up by canon is good for right now.

[SOAP]

Well just to be clear, I never said I disagree with OoT's alternate future eventually leading to the IW. I just have to keep y'all on your toes sometimes. Ever since Mike Peters left the Zelda forum I was originally from (actually it was more that he was literally chased out), everyone just accepted the same speculations as the truth and the law. People were too afraid to THINK FOR THEMSELVES! God! You people have no idea how good it feels to be out of that God-forsaken place...

[Tri-Enforcer]

I was apart of the forums just before the reboot. So, I wasn't around that long. What is it with this Mike Peters and Luigi 64 stuff? What's that all about?

[SOAP]

Well I don't know much about what Mike Peters has done here but let's just say Mikey and I had a "special" love/hate relationship on two other MB's. Him and I are almost alike only we're complete opposites at the same time. We're like Link and Shadow Link, if that clarifies things. Basically he's a homophobic, self-observed, cel-hating, womanizing, Baptist, Single-Link theorist who invented the whole "TWW never hapened because it's baed on a big what-if" theory. While I'm a homopromo, empathetic, cel-loving, goddess-worshipping, agnostic, Multiple Link theorist who has one too many theories altogether.

[Tri-Enforcer]

Oh I see. I guess we all have a combination of the 2 of you in all of us. Well me at least...I know for certain. Even I was ran out of here...well more like banned at one point in time in the old forums.