Yeah. I wasn't exactly ran out of my old forum but people there did alienate me for thinking "differently." To them, having a mind of your own is some sort of indication that you're a Mikey Clone. I was like whatever and ditched that place like a bad habit.
State of the Sages
Started by
Guest_BlackHawkA100_*
, Oct 11 2004 12:46 PM
112 replies to this topic
#61
SOAP
-
- Members
-
- 7,750 posts
So Oo Ap Puh
- Location:Savannah, GA Hell Yeah!
- Gender:Male
-
Posted 18 October 2004 - 05:54 PM
#62
Tri-Enforcer
-
- Members
-
- 820 posts
Master
- Gender:Male
Posted 18 October 2004 - 05:58 PM
Well, in the old forums I noticed [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of but kissing going on...and I was ousted for criticizing a well respected member, who criticized me about something...and he came at me bogus first. So I was looked at as the bad guy...and it didn't make it any better that I was multi-theorist...oh man the debatahating was coming from every direction.
#63
SOAP
-
- Members
-
- 7,750 posts
So Oo Ap Puh
- Location:Savannah, GA Hell Yeah!
- Gender:Male
-
Posted 18 October 2004 - 06:04 PM
Yeah. I've lurked these forums before the crash. It was pretty crazy. I almst wanted to join in when Mikey was still around and really embarass him with my mushy-gushiness. But the stupid forum wouldn't let me log on...
#64
Tri-Enforcer
-
- Members
-
- 820 posts
Master
- Gender:Male
Posted 18 October 2004 - 06:07 PM
Yeah the jerks who got me ousted are lurking around here as if their gods, and everyone buys their BS whenever they speak. "I'm in close with Nintendo so everyone listen"....ooooh ahhhh. "Yeah listen to him...he's done so much for the forums".
#65
Hero of Winds
-
- ZL Staff
-
- 2,428 posts
Quiet Riot
Posted 18 October 2004 - 06:11 PM
He was an ass that didn't know when to shut up. A self-centered egotistical jerk, who could shoot down an idea before it was thought up. None of which, despite his claims to the contrary, involved facts.I was apart of the forums just before the reboot. So, I wasn't around that long. What is it with this Mike Peters and Luigi 64 stuff? What's that all about?
#66
SOAP
-
- Members
-
- 7,750 posts
So Oo Ap Puh
- Location:Savannah, GA Hell Yeah!
- Gender:Male
-
Posted 18 October 2004 - 06:13 PM
Goddammit. What did I start now...
#67
Tri-Enforcer
-
- Members
-
- 820 posts
Master
- Gender:Male
Posted 18 October 2004 - 06:16 PM
Why would I want to hack the forums? I like this place. I suggest you watch who you're callin' a kid...lil boy. You'd as likely a culprit to hack the forums...you're on the inside. I'm just peacefully having a conversation with Mario Jr. I ain't mention no names...so this is an A and B conversation...so you can C your way out of it.
#69
Tri-Enforcer
-
- Members
-
- 820 posts
Master
- Gender:Male
Posted 18 October 2004 - 06:25 PM
Listen...there is no need for all that...I think you're over reacting. I mean you get a lil power and you don't know how to act. So calm down, you're still lil bitty HoW. Now smile. Oh BTW, how shiny are TSA's shoes now?
#70
MikePetersSucks
-
- ZL Staff
-
- 4,174 posts
Actual Japanese Person
- Gender:Male
Posted 18 October 2004 - 07:40 PM
Tri-Enforcer, just cram it already, your being very rude and your only making your situation worse. Now everyone, please get back on topic. This argument is going nowhere, so either drop it or make a new thread for it.
#71
Tri-Enforcer
-
- Members
-
- 820 posts
Master
- Gender:Male
Posted 19 October 2004 - 11:00 AM
Anyways....
How did we get on the topic of time travel and time lines...when this thread is called "State of the Sages"?
How did we get on the topic of time travel and time lines...when this thread is called "State of the Sages"?
#72
Guest_Moonman_*
Guest_Moonman_*
-
- Guests
Posted 19 October 2004 - 03:27 PM
Well, this thread has been derailed, but I still want to talk about the topic (or at least the topic that ended up under discussion), and I don't care to start a new thread...
The obvious answer to your question: because Ganon was a threat before Link retrieved the MS. He killed an ancient demi-god sort of being (deku tree), he was starving out the Gorons, he caused Lord Jabu-Jabu to gain homicidal tendencies, and he was able to chase the Princess Zelda right out of Hyrule Castle. He was seroiusly tearing things apart, and unless you assume that he was trapped behind the door when Link was sent back in time, one must assume that he remains a threat to Hyrule.
But how do you know the same thing happened in the other timeline? How do you know Ganon is even still a threat in the alternate timeline?
The obvious answer to your question: because Ganon was a threat before Link retrieved the MS. He killed an ancient demi-god sort of being (deku tree), he was starving out the Gorons, he caused Lord Jabu-Jabu to gain homicidal tendencies, and he was able to chase the Princess Zelda right out of Hyrule Castle. He was seroiusly tearing things apart, and unless you assume that he was trapped behind the door when Link was sent back in time, one must assume that he remains a threat to Hyrule.
#73
Tri-Enforcer
-
- Members
-
- 820 posts
Master
- Gender:Male
Posted 19 October 2004 - 03:34 PM
Well we don't know exactly what is the status of Ganon when Link returned to the past. I'd like to believe Ganon was still a threat...it would gauge a more interesting story...to see what other route Link will take to defeat Ganon and what new route Ganon would have to take to gain access to the Triforce. If they were to make a game about this...it'll be nice to see the OOT characters again! Then again that's just me.
#74
Guest_Moonman_*
Guest_Moonman_*
-
- Guests
Posted 19 October 2004 - 03:45 PM
Well, if kid Link leaves things well alone, and lets events unfold, I think we would see the IW as described in ALttP. That's for the Child timeline of the parallel theory. If you go time-loop, then OoT could easily be interpreted as the IW, as the events are fairly similar.I'd like to believe Ganon was still a threat...it would gauge a more interesting story...to see what other route Link will take to defeat Ganon and what new route Ganon would have to take to gain access to the Triforce.
#75
Tri-Enforcer
-
- Members
-
- 820 posts
Master
- Gender:Male
Posted 19 October 2004 - 03:57 PM
Well, if kid Link leaves things well alone, and lets events unfold, I think we would see the IW as described in ALttP. That's for the Child timeline of the parallel theory. If you go time-loop, then OoT could easily be interpreted as the IW, as the events are fairly similar.
With a loop everything will keep happening over and over again...and you'll never get beyond Link going back to past. With a loop things don't progress...then other events like the Ganon breaking the seal...the flood...and LTTP itself won't happen...you won't get to those points with a loop...until the loop is broken at least...but at the rate many of you describe the loop it just keeps going.
#76
SOAP
-
- Members
-
- 7,750 posts
So Oo Ap Puh
- Location:Savannah, GA Hell Yeah!
- Gender:Male
-
#77
Guest_Moonman_*
Guest_Moonman_*
-
- Guests
Posted 20 October 2004 - 05:14 PM
With a loop everything will keep happening over and over again...and you'll never get beyond Link going back to past.
I don't think you've ever heard the proper explanation of the Time Loop theory, so here it is. Link gets trapped by the master sword, appears 7 years later, defeats Ganon, and then is sent back into the past. When he is sent back to the past, there are actually two Links -- two of the exact same person -- in existence. One is trapped by destiny into defeating Hyrule, the other has the freedom to do as he pleases. So, the free one goes off to look for Navi (who was apparently sent back in time as well) and MM mask ensues. After 7 years, the Link trapped by the MS comes out, defeats Ganon, and is sent back into the past, leaving only one version of himself in the world after that point.
It's kinda like a big hiccup in time. Everything that is fated to happen happens, but Link is also given the gift of the 7 years he lost in fighting Ganon. The only big assumption made is that the Link who was sent back in time won't interfere with anything in Hyrule. If he does, it could change the whole outcome of the battle with Ganon, and make a big mess of everything.
Now, you also have to get it in the right perspective. From one perspective, the loop never ends and there is always a link fighting and one free, but that's the wrong perspective. Time travels one way, and there is truly only one big hiccup in the flow of things, and that's the free Link. So, in regard to the world (and that whole time-space continuum thing), those 7 or so years it takes to defeat Ganon only pass once. So basically, OoT and MM take place simultaneously.
Get it?
#78
Tri-Enforcer
-
- Members
-
- 820 posts
Master
- Gender:Male
Posted 20 October 2004 - 05:30 PM
I get it....buuuut you know me....
How can there be a double when Link's soul is what's travelling back into time--not his body. If it would've been his body...he would've come back as adult Link. So there can't be a double if the spirit is what's going back into time. Your loop would work if that were the case.
How can there be a double when Link's soul is what's travelling back into time--not his body. If it would've been his body...he would've come back as adult Link. So there can't be a double if the spirit is what's going back into time. Your loop would work if that were the case.
#79
SOAP
-
- Members
-
- 7,750 posts
So Oo Ap Puh
- Location:Savannah, GA Hell Yeah!
- Gender:Male
-
Posted 20 October 2004 - 05:58 PM
Not really since sending adult Link to the past would really screw things up. I don't know realy how to counter the whole Spirit Time travel thing. I used to know how to explain iot but it's been so long...
The thing with Time Loops is that it's based on the assumption that you can freely travel back through time and make any changes you want. But Time will do anything to preserve it's original form and will always outmanuever you. So no matter what you do, any changes you make will just futher insure the future's original outcome. Like say your mom dies on August the 12th, at 8:15 pm after she gets shot in the head by some robbers trying to break into the house. You build a time machine on August 14th to go back to August 12th 7:30 pm and stop the robbers from killing your mother. You find them trying to break into the house at 8: 10 pm and try to fight them off. Your mother hears the noise and goes out to investigate and BAM! She gets shot in the head.
Pretty scary huh? That's a time loop. No matter what you do, you can't change history because it's already set in stone.
The thing with Time Loops is that it's based on the assumption that you can freely travel back through time and make any changes you want. But Time will do anything to preserve it's original form and will always outmanuever you. So no matter what you do, any changes you make will just futher insure the future's original outcome. Like say your mom dies on August the 12th, at 8:15 pm after she gets shot in the head by some robbers trying to break into the house. You build a time machine on August 14th to go back to August 12th 7:30 pm and stop the robbers from killing your mother. You find them trying to break into the house at 8: 10 pm and try to fight them off. Your mother hears the noise and goes out to investigate and BAM! She gets shot in the head.
Pretty scary huh? That's a time loop. No matter what you do, you can't change history because it's already set in stone.
#80
Tri-Enforcer
-
- Members
-
- 820 posts
Master
- Gender:Male
Posted 20 October 2004 - 06:13 PM
I understand...that's also similar to what happened in Time Machine.
But the second time around happens a little differently only the same outcome. This time around you try to stop the robber but it still happens, where as the first time around you weren't stopping them beccause you didn't see it coming.
Things having the same outcome but happening in a different way still fits what I say about what happens to Link. He goes back, Ganon is still a threat but Link will do things differently, but he will still ends up defeating Ganon one way or the other. This can, still, all be done with out throwing a loop in the equation.
But the second time around happens a little differently only the same outcome. This time around you try to stop the robber but it still happens, where as the first time around you weren't stopping them beccause you didn't see it coming.
Things having the same outcome but happening in a different way still fits what I say about what happens to Link. He goes back, Ganon is still a threat but Link will do things differently, but he will still ends up defeating Ganon one way or the other. This can, still, all be done with out throwing a loop in the equation.
#81
SOAP
-
- Members
-
- 7,750 posts
So Oo Ap Puh
- Location:Savannah, GA Hell Yeah!
- Gender:Male
-
Posted 20 October 2004 - 06:32 PM
I suppose so. And I loved the Time Machine! Both the book and the two movies. But what I really was going for was the 12 Monkeys. And it seems what you're going for is all three Terminator movies.
#82
Tri-Enforcer
-
- Members
-
- 820 posts
Master
- Gender:Male
Posted 20 October 2004 - 06:37 PM
I suppose so. And I loved the Time Machine! Both the book and the two movies. But what I really was going for was the 12 Monkeys. And it seems what you're going for is all three Terminator movies.
I am...didn't know they flowed like that...guess I should've paid closer attention. But I'm certain they don't speak of a split timeline!
#83
SOAP
-
- Members
-
- 7,750 posts
So Oo Ap Puh
- Location:Savannah, GA Hell Yeah!
- Gender:Male
-
Posted 20 October 2004 - 06:46 PM
Well, maybe not split timelines (though it is possible they do split, it's just that those other splits don't matter) but timelines erasing other timelines. Hold on. There's a site made by someone named MJ Young who explains it better...
#84
Guest_Moonman_*
Guest_Moonman_*
-
- Guests
Posted 20 October 2004 - 06:54 PM
Except that with this, the future timeline of OoT would equate to nothing more than a lesson for Link. Because, if the future occurs differently when Link is sent into the past, the future he came from ceases to exist except as a memory for Link. So, then, why would fate deem it necessary for the whole adventure to occur when it turns out the world is all the better without it?Things having the same outcome but happening in a different way still fits what I say about what happens to Link. He goes back, Ganon is still a threat but Link will do things differently, but he will still ends up defeating Ganon one way or the other. This can, still, all be done with out throwing a loop in the equation.
How can there be a double when Link's soul is what's travelling back into time--not his body. If it would've been his body...he would've come back as adult Link. So there can't be a double if the spirit is what's going back into time. Your loop would work if that were the case.
Sure it's Link's soul that travels back in time when he travels using the Master Sword, but when Zelda sends him back, she doesn't return him to his body that is trapped in the sword's magic, but instead a younthful version of his adult body at the end of OoT. And don't dismiss that as mere speculation, because all talk about what actually travels back and forth in time is speculation.
#85
Tri-Enforcer
-
- Members
-
- 820 posts
Master
- Gender:Male
Posted 20 October 2004 - 07:02 PM
Because...Zelda and Rauru were tampering with fate and time...they weren't supposed to have done that. It's not until the end when Zelda realizes this and sends Link back so that everything can happen the way it should've--without time travel.(Moonman) So, then, why would fate deem it necessary for the whole adventure to occur when it turns out the world is all the better without it?
Hold up...! What other youthful body could his soul be sent back to? There's only one youthful body in the past.Sure it's Link's soul that travels back in time when he travels using the Master Sword, but when Zelda sends him back, she doesn't return him to his body that is trapped in the sword's magic, but instead a younthful version of his adult body at the end of OoT.
#86
MikePetersSucks
-
- ZL Staff
-
- 4,174 posts
Actual Japanese Person
- Gender:Male
Posted 20 October 2004 - 08:03 PM
Tri-Enforcer is completely right. I'm sorry you guys, but the loop is impossible. It just doesn't work. Now please, stop arguing about something that's already been proven wrong by logic alone and get a nightlife -.-
#87
Guest_Moonman_*
Guest_Moonman_*
-
- Guests
Posted 21 October 2004 - 05:00 PM
I don't think you quite got what I said. Basically, at the end of OoT, Zelda sends Adult Link back in time, body and soul. But, travelling backwards in time, Link's body goes through a reverse ageing process, and he exits time travel as a child once again.Hold up...! What other youthful body could his soul be sent back to? There's only one youthful body in the past.
Good enough. That was just a sub-point anyway. It's all how you want to see it, I guess.Because...Zelda and Rauru were tampering with fate and time...they weren't supposed to have done that. It's not until the end when Zelda realizes this and sends Link back so that everything can happen the way it should've--without time travel.
MikePetersSucks: quit being a douchebag. We'll argue over what we want to argue over. Besides, I've never seen any strain of logic to disprove the theory, so if you'd like to present it, be my guest. By all means, lord your nerdy knowledge over mine. Otherwise, just keep out of it.Tri-Enforcer is completely right. I'm sorry you guys, but the loop is impossible. It just doesn't work. Now please, stop arguing about something that's already been proven wrong by logic alone and get a nightlife -.-
#88
SOAP
-
- Members
-
- 7,750 posts
So Oo Ap Puh
- Location:Savannah, GA Hell Yeah!
- Gender:Male
-
Posted 21 October 2004 - 05:56 PM
It could also be that his soul was returned to version of himself when he first entered the Sacred Realm and underwent stasis, which was still a child. He didn't become an adult overnight, ya' know. :cool:
#89
Guest_Moonman_*
Guest_Moonman_*
-
- Guests
Posted 21 October 2004 - 08:44 PM
It could also be that his soul was returned to version of himself when he first entered the Sacred Realm and underwent stasis, which was still a child. He didn't become an adult overnight, ya' know.
No, it couldn't. You see, I'm trying to explain how there could be, in essence, two of the same Links existing at the same time.
#90
Tri-Enforcer
-
- Members
-
- 820 posts
Master
- Gender:Male
Posted 22 October 2004 - 01:09 PM
Where are you grabbing these ideas from--the crack of a certain part of your body?I don't think you quite got what I said. Basically, at the end of OoT, Zelda sends Adult Link back in time, body and soul. But, travelling backwards in time, Link's body goes through a reverse ageing process, and he exits time travel as a child once again.
Good enough. That was just a sub-point anyway. It's all how you want to see it, I guess.
MikePetersSucks: quit being a douchebag. We'll argue over what we want to argue over. Besides, I've never seen any strain of logic to disprove the theory, so if you'd like to present it, be my guest. By all means, lord your nerdy knowledge over mine. Otherwise, just keep out of it.
If Link's body regresses back to a child-like state, when he returns to the past, then how do you explain his clothing? He would've had over-grown clothes on. Also when adult Link is in the red or blue tunic...you time travel and are wearing a green outfit as a kid. Don't tell me any BS about him hurrying up to change clothes, before we see him! Then again with your explanations--you'd try to run with that idea. We see Link the instant he's transported back, taking his hands off the MS.
Face it, guy...it's his soul that's being transported back--thus there is no bodily double running around causing an unneeded loop.
