122 replies to this topic

[Hero of Legend]

Lets be fair though; 12 year old kid fighting the King of Evil, or a young man fighting him... Who is going to have the easier time?

Eh... Ganny simply was more agile in TWW (The guy could dodge attacks coming from behind). I'm sure he'd beat himself.

You didn't even like the cutscene where he was introduced?

Alright, I'll give you that one. It was a good scene.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 22 January 2007 - 05:09 PM.

[Fyxe]

I don't really see any similarities in either of those cases.

You don't? Well, then I can't help. I thought the similarities between the Fused Shadows and Majora's Mask are obvious.

I just checked - It's not. Watch for yourself at YouTube or something.

No thanks, Youtube isn't exactly high quality.

Yeah, I figured that too. Still, physical attacks didn't stop Mario when he fought Shadow Peach, did they?

They didn't exactly involve sticking sharp things through people's chests. It's MARIO, for heck's sake.

I liked the fight with Zant. My beef is with Ganondorf alone.

To be honest, everything after Zant is a bonus in my eyes, quite frankly. And it was all great. Remember that the fight with Ganondorf is essentially four stages, you have to look at it as a whole.

I thought it looked like something made by the Twili.

So? Ganon's Technique of Darkness used Twili symbols, and he warped in the same fashion.

And you can't deny that the Arbiters' Grounds had a lot of undead, and that the 'flying sword' is a classic ghost boss.

No, but you can't deny the similarities to Phantom Ganon either. In fact, it's a perfect location for Phantom Ganon to appear.

You can't honestly tell me you thought Ganondorf looked good when Link stabbed him? I mean, you could even see the edges of the polygons in his mouth. That's just bad.

Oh noes polygonz. Like I give a damn about miserable little details like that. I don't mean any offense, but quite frankly, I was too busy paying attention to the events as a whole to go 'oh look, it's zoomed in close and the character model doesn't look quite as nice'. That was for like, a couple of seconds at most, anyway. Honestly, I don't want to sound like an old fart, but when people complain about Twilight Princess' graphics it's like kicking a puppy because it's not quite cute enough.

I dunno. I do think the ocean falling down around them gave a sense of urgency in TWW. And Ganondorf just never seemed to die in TP, so it felt kinda pointless towards the end.

Eh? He only 'dies' once in TP, when you kill Beast Ganon. No, it's right, they didn't top the awesome ocean falling down thing, but the whole horseback thing was awesome, and the final fight was very enjoyable, if you ask me. Maybe I loved it more because I stood up and did it properly. It felt like a real fight. I just think you're expecting a bit too much after TWW's excellent dramatic ending. TP had more dramatic events throughout the whole game, it just seems harsh to complain about a perfectly excellent ending just because it doesn't quite top the previous game. Heck, the whole stuff with Midna makes it instantly better anyway, barring the gameplay bits.

Also, he was a wuss compared to in TWW, where Link couldn't even touch the guy. In TP he just fell over.

What? No he wasn't. o.o

One thing I do like about that battle is that only the Master Sword works against Ganondorf. We have heard about it throughout the games, but this is the first time you can see it for yourself.

Hm? The Master Sword is what kills Ganon in the Oracle games and in TWW. Actually, the only thing that was ever meant to kill Ganon was originally the Silver Arrows.

Damn kids these days.

What can I say? The best Zelda game didn't do it (to that extent).

What are you saying is the best Zelda game? And I'm not saying TP is the best Zelda game, but personally I think it rivals Majora's Mask as the best 3D Zelda.

Which is exactly what the chance move is as well. You wait until the little button flashes, then you mash A, and if you repeat it trice, you get the cheapest final boss victory of any Zelda game.

TP is designed so that even those who aren't good at this type of game can win if they keep trying. As for those of us who are experienced, DO IT PROPERLY THEN. You don't have to use the Chance function. That's why it's called 'Chance'. If you lose, you get tons of hearts knocked off, if you win, you get a good chance to chop at him.

Certainly not during any Ganondorf related events.

Come off it, Wolf Link versus Beast Ganon was cool, and Midna using the Fused Shadows was awesome. Oh, and don't forget King Bulblin finally speaking, I loved that bit. There's no pleasing some people, there really isn't.

[Crazy Penguin]

I also immediately thought that the mini-boss in Arbiter's Grounds was Phantom Ganon (even tried to deflect the blasts at first). Is there a guide book or anything available with all of the enemy names?

Hm? The Master Sword is what kills Ganon in the Oracle games and in TWW.

The Master Sword isn't a necessary item in the Oracle games. Ganon can be defeated by a lower level sword, but you will need to use spin attacks. Normal stabbing only works with the Master Sword.

I found Twilight Princess's final battle with Ganondorf to be suitabley intense, dramatic and long enough... as long as you don't use the fishing rod!

[Hero of Legend]

You don't? Well, then I can't help. I thought the similarities between the Fused Shadows and Majora's Mask are obvious.

Ah, you mean that it looks like Majora's Mask? I guess that’s true.

They didn't exactly involve sticking sharp things through people's chests. It's MARIO, for heck's sake.

Link could have bashed her in the face with his shield or SOMETHING. He doesn't need to stab her in the guts.

To be honest, everything after Zant is a bonus in my eyes, quite frankly. And it was all great. Remember that the fight with Ganondorf is essentially four stages, you have to look at it as a whole.

It is good as a whole. Happy?

So? Ganon's Technique of Darkness used Twili symbols, and he warped in the same fashion.

But if it was Phantom Ganon's sword, wouldn't it look like it was his, rather than the sword Zant used on Stallord? BTW, it could just as easily be a Twili artifact since they were once imprisoned there.

No, but you can't deny the similarities to Phantom Ganon either. In fact, it's a perfect location for Phantom Ganon to appear.

Perfect or no, that doesn't make it so. (I rhymed!) And the fact that was invisible (like all ghosts in TP), and that it didn't look anything like Phantom Ganon doesn't exactly help matters.

Honestly, I don't want to sound like an old fart, but when people complain about Twilight Princess' graphics it's like kicking a puppy because it's not quite cute enough.

What? Did you go into defense mode or something? I didn't complain about Twilight Princess graphics. They are great. However, that scene is one of the worst in the game IMO (Midna’s transformation... Oh, not my cup of tea.) and, well I'm kinda disappointed about it.

Eh? He only 'dies' once in TP, when you kill Beast Ganon.

You still had to beat him four times before he went down, and even then it was Zant of all people who killed him. It just didn't feel right.

And the fight WAS great, just not as good as the TWW one, IMO.

What? No he wasn't. o.o

Badass Ninja > Lumbering Lightsaber Guy

Hm? The Master Sword is what kills Ganon in the Oracle games and in TWW. Actually, the only thing that was ever meant to kill Ganon was originally the Silver Arrows.

My point was; this was the first time you could try a different blade against him. And it doesn't work.

What are you saying is the best Zelda game? And I'm not saying TP is the best Zelda game, but personally I think it rivals Majora's Mask as the best 3D Zelda.

I think the same way.

TP is designed so that even those who aren't good at this type of game can win if they keep trying. As for those of us who are experienced, DO IT PROPERLY THEN. You don't have to use the Chance function. That's why it's called 'Chance'. If you lose, you get tons of hearts knocked off, if you win, you get a good chance to chop at him.

Abusing it wasn’t intended, it is simply broken. And no, I don’t use it, but it is still a flaw in the battle design.

Come off it, Wolf Link versus Beast Ganon was cool, and Midna using the Fused Shadows was awesome. Oh, and don't forget King Bulblin finally speaking, I loved that bit. There's no pleasing some people, there really isn't.

I don't get what the Bullblin King has to do with Ganondorf (Though I did like him. Comic-relief antagonists FTW!), but to recap; all I said was that Ganondorf was not the best part of TP, and I think you can agree with that.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 22 January 2007 - 06:09 PM.

[Fyxe]

Goddamnit, I made a whole reply to your post that's just been lost thanks to this goddamn useless forum.

Ah, you mean that it looks like Majora's Mask? I guess that’s true.

More than just looks. It was created by a mysterious, unknown tribe, like the Fused Shadows. It has the property of consuming it's wearer, like the Fused Shadows, and both objects have immense power nearing the strength of the Triforce.

Link could have bashed her in the face with his shield or SOMETHING. He doesn't need to stab her in the guts.

So he'd hit her a bunch of times with his shield. That's not exactly exciting.

But if it was Phantom Ganon's sword, wouldn't it look like it was his,

It looks like his sword as much as Dodongos look like Dodongos. It doesn't have to look identical to be a reference.

BTW, it could just as easily be a Twili artifact since they were once imprisoned there.

The phantom looks nothing like a Twili, however. Also, it's similarity to Zant's sword means nothing, all of Zant's magic is directly connected to Ganondorf's magic anyway.

Perfect or no, that doesn't make it so. (I rhymed!) And the fact that was invisible (like all ghosts in TP), and that it didn't look anything like Phantom Ganon doesn't exactly help matters.

The fact that it's invisible means nothing, it's a phantom after all. And Phantom Ganon in TWW looked nothing like Phantom Ganon in OoT.

What? Did you go into defense mode or something? I didn't complain about Twilight Princess graphics. They are great.

You did though, you complained that you could see the polygons.

However, that scene is one of the worst in the game IMO (Midna’s transformation... Oh, not my cup of tea.) and, well I'm kinda disappointed about it.

Worst? No way was it the worst. C'mon, where's that coming from? I love the image of Ganon standing in the sunset with the sword sticking out of him. Very emotive and dramatic. And which Midna transformation are you talking about? The Fused Shadows? That was cool. Her regaining her original form? That bit was *great*.

You still had to beat him four times before he went down, and even then it was Zant of all people who killed him. It just didn't feel right.

Wait, WHAT!? Since when did Zant kill Ganon? What on Earth are you babbling about?

And the fight WAS great, just not as good as the TWW one, IMO.

No, I would agree with that, but TWW's finale was based primarily around one brilliant fight, while TP was more about a culmination of battles.

My point was; this was the first time you could try a different blade against him. And it doesn't work.

Oh, I see. I never tried that.

Abusing it wasn’t intended, it is simply broken. And no, I don’t use it, but it is still a flaw in the battle design.

You think they didn't consider what the Chance function does at this stage in the game? It was intended to work exactly how it does. It's there to help less skilled players beat Ganon. You're not meant to just sit back and let it occur, and in fact I'm not sure if it even does occur if you just sit and wait. You're meant to fight and weaken him in the meantime. Chance is there to finish off the battle, similar to the fight with him in TWW.

I don't get what the Bullblin King has to do with Ganondorf (Though I did like him. Comic-relief antagonists FTW!), but to recap; all I said was that Ganondorf was not the best part of TP, and I think you can agree with that.

I look at the Ganondorf sections as a whole. Hyrule Castle is TP's version of Ganon's Tower. And no, Ganondorf wasn't the best part, Midna was, and her large involvement in the final scenes made it more than just another fight against Ganon.

[Fyxe]

I'm just making another post to bump this topic above Tekky's due to the spoiler in the title.

[Nevermind]

1. What battle design flaw are you talking about? All I see is nit-picking.

2. I'm about 98% certain that Midna's spear had three prongs arranged in a circle.

3. The battle with Ganondorf was just plain awesome, and those scant few people who feel the need to complain about it...well....get over it is really the only thing you can say, because none of them can be persuaded.

[FDL]

Come off it, Wolf Link versus Beast Ganon was cool, and Midna using the Fused Shadows was awesome. Oh, and don't forget King Bulblin finally speaking, I loved that bit. There's no pleasing some people, there really isn't.

The Bulblins as a whole were awesome, IMO. They were the first time that the orcish kinda enemy really seemed to be a true race of Hyrule. In TWW, all the enemies seemed to all just be Ganon's creations, but in TP the Bulblins felt like their own race which Ganondorf just allied himself with. And of course, the fact that we finally get a surbodinate of Ganondorf who wasn't being controlled magically like Zant and Aghanim were is awesome. And I know I've badmouthed TWW [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img], but I was just so dissapointed. TWW felt the least like a real world of the 3D games, which is weird because TWW was so much better in AI and graphical smoothness than OoT and MM. But I still liked MM waaayyy more than TWW, and I like OoT somewhat more.

Edited by Fierce Deity Link, 22 January 2007 - 07:40 PM.

[Showsni]

Now that you mention the Majora's Mask connection, the idea of teh ancient tribe who used it being the Twili (pre banishment) is very appealing.

It is an accursed item from
legend that is said to have been
used by an ancient tribe in its
hexing rituals.

The Twili are an ancient tribe, and they could have used the mask - it beasr similarities to other of their artefacts.

According to legend...
the troubles caused by Majora's
Mask were so great...
the ancient ones, fearing such
catastrophe, sealed the mask in
shadow forever, preventing its
misuse.

Ancient ones = Light spirits, anyone? Or else the sages. And sealed in shadows could well be sealing it in the Twilight Realm.

But now, that tribe from the
legend has vanished, so no one
really knows the true nature of
the mask's power...

And now teh tribe have vanished. Also sealed in the shadows, perchance?

[Fyxe]

My god, I totally forgot about that shadow stuff in the Majora's Mask backstory. The connections feel even more acute now. o.o It'd make sense that Aonuma would want to draw Majora's Mask, the first game he directed, into the series as a whole, even if it's only as a reference.

[Duke Serkol]

Majora would be a person.

Can we really tell? The masks backstory doesn't sound like it's the same as one of the mask with a spirit trapped within, like those Link uses to change.

True, but how else could Link fight her? He can't exactly just go and stab her, can he? It's a perfect opportunity to use the Agahnim style of battle. At least she has that awesome triangle attack.

I would have liked for her to have more unique attacks too. What's the point of possessing her when Ganondorf himself fought much more efficiently in OoT (granted, he doesn't have collapsing terrain here...)
I'm also bothered that Ganondorf changes into pig before fighting the way he normally is... if that's his last stand (his stronger method of combat) what's his reason for changing at all? Other than that, and the very DragonBall-ish explosion of the castle, I enjoyed the last battle.

Oh and isn't it strange that we see Midna with her headpiece when the spirits revive her even though the thing is still laying broken on the ground afterwards? It's not like Nintendo didn't have a model of her without it already in the game...

Except that he appears in the place where Ganon was sealed, and the sword seems very similar to Phantom Ganon's sword (and was also sealed, using sutras).

I also thought immediately "Phantom Ganon!", but between the fact that you don't reflect his shot back at him and Phantom Ganon actually shows up in the last battle exactly as he is in OoT, I came to assume it's just a liche (if just fits that sentence, really)

Oh and about the Twili's ancestors creating Majora. The Light Spirits described them as "Interlopers". Well where do you think they interloped from..? (Somewhere so foreign from Hyrule and its people that the Gods would not let them claim the claim the triforce as they appeared to be striving for....)

Edited by Duke Serkol, 22 January 2007 - 08:58 PM.

[Fyxe]

Can we really tell? The masks backstory doesn't sound like it's the same as one of the mask with a spirit trapped within, like those Link uses to change.

Well, Majora would be a thing with a brain, anyway, and presumably Majora's spirit IS trapped within the mask, as we see it take on a humanoid form as you fight the mask. Also, interestingly, Majora's Wrath is called something like 'Magic Emporer Majora' in the Japanese version, 'magic emporer' presumably just meaning some kind of lordly magician, which seems very akin to Zant's own role.

I would have liked for her to have more unique attacks too. What's the point of possessing her when Ganondorf himself fought much more efficiently in OoT (granted, he doesn't have collapsing terrain here...)

Efficiently? Zelda's physical weakness aside, she did have that awesome triangle attack, and she tried to impale Link on her sword. Ganondorf in OoT just floated there and threw energy bolts at Link, unless he got close. He had that big attack, but we know how flawed that was. ¬.¬

I'm also bothered that Ganondorf changes into pig before fighting the way he normally is... if that's his last stand (his stronger method of combat) what's his reason for changing at all? Other than that, and the very DragonBall-ish explosion of the castle, I enjoyed the last battle.

Dragonball-ish? At least it didn't have any big glowyness. It just went boom.

As for Beast Ganon... I'm not sure if he was using his full power. His beast form seemed less human-like than it's ever been before, obviously. I don't think Ganon does things by half, though. He tries one way, if that fails, he tries another. The order doesn't make one more or less powerful. If he wanted to fight with full power, he would have become a twin-bladed beast, like in OoT. But in TP, his more powerful form is actually as a human, at least when armed with the Light Sword. Maybe he just doesn't like to wield the blade that gave him that wound, and would prefer to be a beast if he can get away with it. It's just mixing things up, really, for dramatic effect.

Oh and isn't it strange that we see Midna with her headpiece when the spirits revive her even though the thing is still laying broken on the ground afterwards? It's not like Nintendo didn't have a model of her without it already in the game...

Obviously, one reason we see her with the headpiece is that it makes her much more recognisable as a silohette. But we see it laying on the ground after she's changed back into her normal form, so obviously she was wearing it again for a moment, then no longer. It's so we think for a moment that Link was imagining it or something.

I also thought immediately "Phantom Ganon!", but between the fact that you don't reflect his shot back at him and Phantom Ganon actually shows up in the last battle exactly as he is in OoT, I came to assume it's just a liche (if just fits that sentence, really)

Well, Phantom Ganon in OoT was pretty much a lich anyway. And Puppet Zelda isn't Phantom Ganon. ¬.¬ But yeah, just because you don't reflect his shots doesn't mean it's not the same creature. Gohma has been a crab, a spider and a worm. That boss was so much like Phantom Ganon it can hardly not be the same thing. Does anyone have the Official Guide? Are any names given in there?

Oh and about the Twili's ancestors creating Majora. The Light Spirits described them as "Interlopers". Well where do you think they interloped from..? (Somewhere so foreign from Hyrule and its people that the Gods would not let them claim the claim the triforce as they appeared to be striving for....)

To be fair, I think 'interlopers' means interlopers into the Sacred Realm, but I could be wrong.

I have a question, actually... The Sacred Realm... It's not the same place as the Twilight Realm, or is it? I've forgotten the details of Lanayru's vision. I mean, I'm glad that Twilight Princess didn't have so much exposition as OoT did (the story felt so much more realistic and grown-up, that way, like Majora's Mask), but since it took so long to finish, I have forgotten a few details.

Edited by Fyxe, 22 January 2007 - 09:43 PM.

[coinilius]

The mini-boss of Arbiter's Grounds is called...

Death Sword!


....


No, I'm not making that up (although it is second hand iformation, since I don't have a player's guide of my own).

[SOAP]

Um can't we all just say Fyxe is right and call it night?

Anyways, I agree with Fyxe completely on this. There has to be some connection. Even if they're not the same people they could be each other's counterparts. Just one thing though: I had thought the entire tribe was sealed in the mask.

[Duke Serkol]

Well, Majora would be a thing with a brain, anyway, and presumably Majora's spirit IS trapped within the mask, as we see it take on a humanoid form as you fight the mask. Also, interestingly, Majora's Wrath is called something like 'Magic Emporer Majora' in the Japanese version

A spirit doesn't necessarily require a brain in fantasy stories, like Elric's Stormbringer as a spirit of its own, but it certainly doesn't hava brain, nor was it human previously to being a sword. But yeah, the title Emperor isn't usually given to masks, so that is a pretty good point. And I never meant to say this cannot be the case, just to suggest not to go assuming on things we can't be certain about.

Efficiently? Zelda's physical weakness aside, she did have that awesome triangle attack, and she tried to impale Link on her sword. Ganondorf in OoT just floated there and threw energy bolts at Link, unless he got close. He had that big attack, but we know how flawed that was. ¬.¬

Overall the fight against puppet Zelda is easier though (the awesome triangle attack is extremely easy to dodge, like anything else she does)... but I guess the one and only reason for that is really the terrain. Imagine hopping out of the triangle attack in OoT, you'd plummet to the floor below.

Dragonball-ish? At least it didn't have any big glowyness. It just went boom.

The point doesn't change though. It's just like in Dragonball when enemies (and eventually goodguys) became so powerful they could blow up the planet they were standing on with a punch (freeza was the first, I believe, and it was then that I lost any interest in it). They can do that and yet need energy beams and who knows how many hits to kill a single opponent?
Similarly, if Ganon has the power to blow up a huge castle... why does he use a big toothpick against Link?
Even worse, the castle blowing up doesn't serve any function at all (within the story). It's just to make the player go "OMG powar!!!11 "

It's just mixing things up, really, for dramatic effect.

Personally, I'm with those who believe the last battle was originally going to be shorter but then they (Miyamoto and his total disregard for games plot?) kept adding to it until it grew to the four phases battle we've got. That and I suppose they wanted Ganon to die by Master Sword, not Sacred Beast bite since apparently as of TWW and TP the Master Sword is the new Silver Arrow...

Obviously, one reason we see her with the headpiece is that it makes her much more recognisable as a silohette. But we see it laying on the ground after she's changed back into her normal form, so obviously she was wearing it again for a moment, then no longer. It's so we think for a moment that Link was imagining it or something.

Yeah, Link imagining it seems more plausible than Midna actually wearing it (since it's broken and continues to be so)

Well, Phantom Ganon in OoT was pretty much a lich anyway. And Puppet Zelda isn't Phantom Ganon. ¬.¬

I didn't mean Zelda, I was talking about the horseback battle.

To be fair, I think 'interlopers' means interlopers into the Sacred Realm, but I could be wrong.

Uhm, possible... but seeing as the Gods left the Triforce for someone living in Hyrule to claim (or at least that's what ALttP's manual told us). I believe their intervention would make much more sense if the interlopers were in fact not from Hyrule and never meant for it.
After all, they didn't do anything to stop ganondorf from claiming it in OoT, so it doesn't seem like that banished the twili simply because they were being evil and whatnot.

I have a question, actually... The Sacred Realm... It's not the same place as the Twilight Realm, or is it? I've forgotten the details of Lanayru's vision.

Well, I should hope not. It would make little sense to banish someone in the land they want to conquer. That and Ganondorf was still going after the Sacred Realm long after the interlopers got banished into the Twilight Realm... so again I don't think it'd wrk very well for the sages to exile him there.
So no, I didn't really see anything in the expositions (by Lanayru and Midna) that coul be interpreted in that sense (but I do see why you may wonder, what with the way the Twilight Realm looks...)

[coinilius]

Overall the fight against puppet Zelda is easier though (the awesome triangle attack is extremely easy to dodge, like anything else she does)... but I guess the one and only reason for that is really the terrain. Imagine hopping out of the triangle attack in OoT, you'd plummet to the floor below.

I remember the first time I fought Puppet Zelda, I had this horrible moment when I thought it was going to take forever to finish because I couldn't work out what to hit her with after I had reflected her attack back at her enough times to stun her... then I realised I just had to hit her with her own attack three times in a row

The point doesn't change though. It's just like in Dragonball when enemies (and eventually goodguys) became so powerful they could blow up the planet they were standing on with a punch (freeza was the first, I believe, and it was then that I lost any interest in it). They can do that and yet need energy beams and who knows how many hits to kill a single opponent?
Similarly, if Ganon has the power to blow up a huge castle... why does he use a big toothpick against Link?
Even worse, the castle blowing up doesn't serve any function at all (within the story). It's just to make the player go "OMG powar!!!11 "

To be fair, the explosion may not have just been caused by Ganon, but perhaps by his battle with Midna. He may also have been weakened by all those flashy attacks he'd been using earlier which could account for why he then reverted to less 'showy' attacks from then on

That and I suppose they wanted Ganon to die by Master Sword, not Sacred Beast bite since apparently as of TWW and TP the Master Sword is the new Silver Arrow...

Bring back the Silver Arrow, I say!

[Duke Serkol]

To be fair, the explosion may not have just been caused by Ganon, but perhaps by his battle with Midna.

Midna "died" from the blast, Ganon came out without a scratch. So even if it was their combined power, I think it's pretty clear Ganondorf supplied the most of it.

Anyway, I've been thinking some more about the issue on Majora's spirit.
Clearly the fact that it is Majora's Mask and not the Mask Majora implies that there was someone or something called Majora before the mask. It doesn't necessarily have to be a person though (could be the tribe that used it in hexing rituals before getting scared and sealing it, or a cult...) but then the fact that it is called Emperor may well indicate that it is the spirit of the Tribe's leader that came to inhabit it (even though the story told by the salesman doesn't suggest anything like that).

In fact, the name of this supposed emperor of the long gone tribe, Majora, and that of the Queen of the banished Twili, Midna seem to have a connection too apparent for it to be just a coincidence (all the more given the Majorish eye on midna's Fused Shadow).

Edited by Duke Serkol, 23 January 2007 - 12:10 PM.

[Hero of Legend]

Worst? No way was it the worst. C'mon, where's that coming from?

Well, his death is somewhat disgraceful compared to previous titles, don’t you think?

I love the image of Ganon standing in the sunset with the sword sticking out of him. Very emotive and dramatic.

That part IS good. Though I wonder, what they did with his body?

And which Midna transformation are you talking about? The Fused Shadows? That was cool. Her regaining her original form? That bit was *great*.

Minda is awesome. The Fused Shadow, not so much. And no, I don't think it is cool at all.

Wait, WHAT!? Since when did Zant kill Ganon? What on Earth are you babbling about?

On that same token, where is your evidence?

1. What battle design flaw are you talking about? All I see is nit-picking.

You are evidently not looking hard enough.



(And yes, you have to skip to the end for the Ganondorf fight. Sue me.)

Also, I’ll have you know OoT Ganondorf is broken in a similar way (as are most of the bosses in that game), but I never liked that fight anyway, so there you go.

2. I'm about 98% certain that Midna's spear had three prongs arranged in a circle.

You forgot the one in the middle.

3. The battle with Ganondorf was just plain awesome, and those scant few people who feel the need to complain about it...well....get over it is really the only thing you can say, because none of them can be persuaded.

Lucky there are none of those people here then, right? Cuz I don't say it's not good when it isn't.

I have a question, actually... The Sacred Realm... It's not the same place as the Twilight Realm, or is it?

Definitely not.

Even worse, the castle blowing up doesn't serve any function at all (within the story). It's just to make the player go "OMG powar!!!11 "

Uh... Duke, you are aware that it was Minda who blew up the castle, right? It is supposed to show the awesome destructive power of the Fused Shadow, but that Ganondorf is more powerful still (Thanks to the ToP, of course).

And besides, Ganondorf has nuked a few towers throughout the years. What makes this one different?

That and I suppose they wanted Ganon to die by Master Sword, not Sacred Beast bite since apparently as of TWW and
TP the Master Sword is the new Silver Arrow...

Actually, I'd say that goes back to OoT. The Silver Arrows never were a hit, anyway (Pun!).

Edited by Hero of Legend, 23 January 2007 - 12:04 PM.

[Fyxe]

Well, his death is somewhat disgraceful compared to previous titles, don’t you think?

Um, it was pretty similar to TWW, actually. Not hugely different. And there's that cool bit where he's standing in the twilight, still talking, before he dies for good.

That part IS good. Though I wonder, what they did with his body?

It's possible he turns to stone again. I wouldn't be surprised.

Minda is awesome. The Fused Shadow, not so much. And no, I don't think it is cool at all.

Your loss.

On that same token, where is your evidence?

Logic. But hey, I knew that that moment would be enough to confuse people who have no idea about symbolism and clearly never watch any decent films. ¬.¬

Definitely not.

Definitely? When Lanayru explained a bunch of things, it made me feel very much that the Twili were sealed in the Sacred Realm. But eh. I guess that wouldn't make sense.

On the subject of Majora's Mask, I'm fairly sure Majora would just be a person. You can't incarnate a whole tribe, Majora takes on the form of a single being, an almost childlike, insane being.

[Hero of Legend]

Um, it was pretty similar to TWW, actually. Not hugely different. And there's that cool bit where he's standing in the twilight, still talking, before he dies for good.

That was the worst part, I think... I mean, he basically went; "Damn you, this isn't over! ...Oh wait, it is. *Dies*" At least in TWW he had the decency of knowing when he was defeated.

Logic. But hey, I knew that that moment would be enough to confuse people who have no idea about symbolism and clearly never watch any decent films. ¬.¬

What are you talking about? Episode III was awesome!

Definitely? When Lanayru explained a bunch of things, it made me feel very much that the Twili were sealed in the Sacred Realm. But eh. I guess that wouldn't make sense.

How about this: Lanayru says a dark tribe tried to conquer the Sacred Realm, and for that reason, they were banished from the world of light. Latter on, Midna says the dark tribe were the ancestors of the Twili, and that the world they were banished to eventually became known as the Twilight Realm. Now, it wouldn't make a lot of sense if the Twilight Realm was the Sacred Realm, because that would defeat the entire purpose of banishing them in the first place (It would seal them up with the Triforce). Then there is the 'dark realm' =/= 'light realm' issue. Also, we don't hear about them in any other game, even though they should be there if they lived in the Sacred Realm.

So yeah, definitely.

[Fyxe]

Yeah, cos TP doesn't retcon *anything*, of course not.

[Hero of Legend]

Like what? Geography is the only thing I can think of that isn't consistent with what we know of the child ending of OoT...

Edited by Hero of Legend, 23 January 2007 - 05:08 PM.

[Mad Scrub]

That part IS good. Though I wonder, what they did with his body?

They probably stole his wallet for starters...then his jewellery...then that flashy sword of his.

Speaking of similarities to Majora's Mask, you know those enemies on Hyrule Field that lay pink bombs/eggs. Has anyone seen their faces up close? From a distance I've always thought they had a face similar to Majora's Mask.

Edited by Mad Scrub, 23 January 2007 - 05:51 PM.

[Fyxe]

Like what? Geography is the only thing I can think of that isn't consistent with what we know of the child ending of OoT...

To be quite frank, now that you're talking about 'child ending' means you have one of these wacky split timeline concepts, meaning I have no sodding idea how you place TP into the overall timeline. So I have no way of pointing out how TP rewrites the plot in a similar way to TWW, because I don't know what order you have come up with. But there's bound to be inconsistencies wherever you put it, quite frankly.

'After OoT' is about as much as I care about it's placement in the timeline, to be honest.

OoT does have four sequels now. None of which seem to be hugely consistent with each other.

[coinilius]

Midna "died" from the blast, Ganon came out without a scratch. So even if it was their combined power, I think it's pretty clear Ganondorf supplied the most of it.

Or it means Midna put in all the power she had, and Ganon just reflected it, or didn't need to put in as much energy, or the explosion was caused by the spectacular meeting of two powerful forces. Or that was Ganon having to use something extreme to take down Midna.

[FDL]

If Ganon can become a GIANT, FLAMING HEAD at will I think he can blow up a castle.

[SOAP]

Or maybe it doesn't matter. Honestly we can go over a million different scenarios all day but does it really matter?

[MikePetersSucks]

Oh and about the Twili's ancestors creating Majora. The Light Spirits described them as "Interlopers". Well where do you think they interloped from..? (Somewhere so foreign from Hyrule and its people that the Gods would not let them claim the claim the triforce as they appeared to be striving for....)

I actually like this train of thought. The Triforce was put there for Hyruleans to claim, regardless of their intentions or methods. Infact, it's just supposed to split when someone undeserving gets ahold of it, and even then they get a piece. The fact that the Goddesses and the Light Spirits intervene, create the Twilight Realm and the Twilight Mirror and stuff and banish the Twili forever seems to imply that the Twili as a whole have no rights to the Triforce, giving us the conclusion that they are not of Hyrule.

[FDL]

What's the exact definition of "interloper" again?

[Duke Serkol]

If Ganon can become a GIANT, FLAMING HEAD at will I think he can blow up a castle.

I know, but why not use the same attack on Link after Midna was dealt with? (Feel free to smugly reply "He was spent", I'll still not buy that as an explanation )

I'm glad you agree MikePetersSucks.

And FDL, interloper is pretty much the same thing as intruder.