164 replies to this topic

[Fyxe]

Who holds that belief? I think that belief is even crazier than being empowered by the mirror.

Neither of such things happen. Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power before the scene, and the ToP is not empowered by the Twilight Mirror, there is zero prescedance for this.

Why so much emphasis on the world 'empower'? Empower doesn't mean much at all. It's just a fancy word for 'feeling strength'. It doesn't mean he was actually given a physical power by an emotion. It merely means that the malice remaining in the Twili (predominantly in Zant) strengthened him after his defeat. It gave him the lust and desire for power - to return to Hyrule and make it his own.

The mirror did *nothing* to make the ToP resonate. It was doing nothing. It was never seen to do anything, Ganondorf never says it did anything, if it was meant to be the mirror that somehow powered up the ToP (an object of unbridled power ANYWAY, it's not like it needs charging like a battery) it would have been said, or shown. Neither things happen. jhurvid is just making a large assumption based on vague pieces of dialogue.

Honestly, all this stuff about empowerment is really over the top.

[FDL]

Who holds that belief? I think that belief is even crazier than being empowered by the mirror.

Actually, [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of people. I personally don't, even if there is a split timeline and if TP is in the child time, I think OoT's ending and TP make that clear. But, many people do.

[Fyxe]

In that case, they're all wrong. o.o

[Mgoblue201]

What is that quote even supposed to prove? So Zant wouldn't allow Midna back into the Twilight Realm. That alone has nothing to do with Ganon, nor does it have anything to do with originally breaking out of the realm. That quote simply says that Zant had power strong enough to supercede even the Twilight Princess. My entire point was that there is only one known connection between the two worlds, and its power has nothing to do with twilight. There might have been other methods used, but we don't even know if that used twilight either. But regardless, it's simply proof that the power of Zant, the power of twilight, is not the only way to get out of the Twilight Realm.

Of course, I knew you'd change your theory to the mirror, which is even more proposterous a theory than the Twili. I hope you at least have more than an ambiguous line or two about the mirror being cursed. Do you have any proof at all that Ganon was able to feed off of the mirror's "malice"? You're so big on what the text says. So why does Ganon not directlly tell us that it was the mirror? Was the void now a mere twenty feet? I think I'm speaking for everybody else in this thread when I say stop. making. stuff. up.

One does not need the power of twilight to go back to the light world. The mirror itself provides passage by opening up a portal. We do not know by what means, but the mirror does not have the properties of twilight, so it stands to reason that twilight is not the only way to go between realms. Link needed Midna because light and shadow occupied the same realm. Link does not need a twilight creature to go between realms though. He simply needs a vehicle with which to take him there. I do not know if Ganon has that power. However, you claim Ganon does. But we can see that twilight is not required as a means of travel. Therefore that does not help your point.

Of course Ganon took his time to be reborn in the light world. Even before TP to nearly all the way through the game, Ganon never once shows himself. What was he doing that entire time? If he was fully empowered, then why not just show himself and conquer Hyrule? Instead, he leaves his dark ambitions unfilfilled while Link skirts around Hyrule trying to stop him. It really makes no sense that way.

[Jumbie]

Who holds that belief? I think that belief is even crazier than being empowered by the mirror.
Neither of such things happen. Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power before the scene

Oh how I wish it was as you say! Many have held that belief from the first time they saw the cutscene, although not me. I was only beaten and convinced by visual proof.
After the sword pierced Ganondorf, the Triforce mark flashes up for a second with only the ToP glowing. Immediately afterwards it dies down to a black silhouette of the emblem, just like it's seen on Link's and Zelda's hands as long as their respective marks are not glowing. Now the proof: this black silhouette is not there on Ganondorf's hand until after the mark first flashed up, whereas with Link and Zelda it was there already before we first saw their Triforces glowing in the game. You can see this by highlighting two screenshots, one of before and one of after the initial glowing, and will see that the silhouette (a clear indicator for having a Triforce piece) was never there before the sword pierced his stomach.

It's a sad truth, appears to be insane storytelling, and causes many incommodities, but in the end it's unfortunately a fact that Ganondorf didn't bear the ToP inside himself before his execution was completed.
Now we'll have to accustom to the idea that OoT Link was sent back to a time before either he and Ganondorf first entered the Sacred Realm. OoT Zelda and Ganondorf presumably didn't get their Triforces because they didn't travel back in time with Link, that's why Link's ToC glows in the courtyard, because he comes from the future where he had the ToC.

Edited by Jumbie, 07 February 2007 - 08:23 PM.

[FDL]

No, I don't that's correct. Ganondorf was wearing a glove. We can't see it because of this. I know that isn't valid because at the end of the game, when Ganon definetly has the Triforce of Power, we can't see it unless it glows. I'm 99% sure on this, the other 1% there only because one can never be sure on anything. But, anyway, I'm basically sure it's true, you CAN'T see the Triforce unless it glows.

[Jumbie]

No, I don't that's correct. Ganondorf was wearing a glove. We can't see it because of this. I know that isn't valid because at the end of the game, when Ganon definetly has the Triforce of Power, we can't see it unless it glows. I'm 99% sure on this, the other 1% there only because one can never be sure on anything. But, anyway, I'm basically sure it's true, you CAN'T see the Triforce unless it glows.

I heard about the later scene, that the silhouette is not visible there, but that pic is not such a close-up as the one in AG is.
His glove doesn't have anything to do with it. That was also my initial counter argument to this, but the silhouette is actually seen on the glove's *surface* in the AG cutscene. Before the execution it's not visible when you highlight, after the Triforce has first shone it is visible on the glove by highlighting the pic.

[Fyxe]

After the sword pierced Ganondorf, the Triforce mark flashes up for a second with only the ToP glowing. Immediately afterwards it dies down to a black silhouette of the emblem, just like it's seen on Link's and Zelda's hands as long as their respective marks are not glowing. Now the proof: this black silhouette is not there on Ganondorf's hand until after the mark first flashed up, whereas with Link and Zelda it was there already before we first saw their Triforces glowing in the game. You can see this by highlighting two screenshots, one of before and one of after the initial glowing, and will see that the silhouette (a clear indicator for having a Triforce piece) was never there before the sword pierced his stomach.

Blah blah blah OVERINTERPRETATION THAT WAS NEVER EVER INTENDED. You think Nintendo excepts anyone to take screenshots to compare things in minute detail? Of course they don't. Why do you think there are all the inconsitencies between cutscene and gameplay at the end of TWW in relation to the crests? So we couldn't see the mark before Ganondorf got stabbed. So what? Don't you think that would have been a bit of a giveaway if we could?

Honestly. Like that means a single thing. You have to *edit* the screenshots before you can even see it.

In one cutscene, Midna appearing from Link's Shadow has her Fused Shadow mask glowing in an eerie, whitish manner that it never does during normal gameplay. It's called a graphical inconsistency.

Edited by Fyxe, 07 February 2007 - 09:01 PM.

[FDL]

But, thing is, we don't see his hand Triforceless after the impalement hardly at all. The only time we might is after it initially glows, and it cuts away as it's fading. We NEVER, EVER see his hand Triforceless while it's not in mid-fade, as far as I know. I just watched the scene, and I don't see anything like that. And, I don't mean any disrespect with the bolding and all caps, just emphasis.

Edit: Actually, it doesn't completely cut away, but it all depends on when you take the picture, or pause the scene. At first, it appears to be imprinted, but if you pause it right before the back of his hand isn't visible, the Triforce symbol isn't visible at all.

Edited by Fierce Deity Link, 07 February 2007 - 09:02 PM.

[Jumbie]

Don't you think that would have been a bit of a giveaway if we could?

No, because:

You have to *edit* the screenshots before you can even see it.

I could think of no reason for the programmers to renounce that shady crest before his execution but then make it discernable after it has glowed...
Can it really be laziness on their part? I'd be fine if it was just an inconsistency, but this time I'm not valiant enough to shout this out to whoever opposes me.

Anyway, it's nice to see the optimism of you two, now you've achieved that I'm undecided about the ToP issue once again...

[Raien]

Jumbie, I talked with Arturo about that screenshot and I can explain why we see the vague residue of the Triforce mark, even though it is not meant to be there.

You see, if the Triforce mark glows/resonates on Ganondorf's hand, then it requires a separate piece of code from the sprite that makes up Ganondorf's hand. Because this code is separate, the mark has to match the colour of Ganondorf's hand when it is not resonating, so that it camouflages with the colour of his hand. By turning up the brightness from what is actually visible, you are effectively breaking that camouflage, making the mark visible.

Of course, if the mark is not meant to glow, then it can be embedded upon the sprite of the wielder's hand, just like Link when he wears his farming clothes. When the Triforce of Courage is due to resonate, then the separate code is placed on top of the mark that is embedded into Link's sprite.

For example, if you watch the ending of TWW, you can see that the Triforce mark on Link's hand actually fluctuates its position on the hand itself at one point. As another example, towards the end of the ToP fading on Ganondorf's hand, the actual mark simply flashes off rather than completing the fade entirely. It's a graphical glitch, because the Triforce mark is a separate piece of code to Ganondorf's hand.

Neither of such things happen. Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power before the scene, and the ToP is not empowered by the Twilight Mirror, there is zero prescedance for this.

WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING THAT I THINK THE TWILIGHT MIRROR EMPOWERED THE TRIFORCE OF POWER!? I NEVER SAID THAT, I EVEN TOLD YOU THAT WAS NOT WHAT I MEANT!!

Why so much emphasis on the world 'empower'? Empower doesn't mean much at all. It's just a fancy word for 'feeling strength'. It doesn't mean he was actually given a physical power by an emotion. It merely means that the malice remaining in the Twili (predominantly in Zant) strengthened him after his defeat. It gave him the lust and desire for power - to return to Hyrule and make it his own.

To be "empowered" is to go from a weakened state to a strengthened state. Ganondorf was in a weakened state before he was sealed within the Twilight Realm, not after.

The mirror did *nothing* to make the ToP resonate. It was doing nothing. It was never seen to do anything, Ganondorf never says it did anything, if it was meant to be the mirror that somehow powered up the ToP (an object of unbridled power ANYWAY, it's not like it needs charging like a battery) it would have been said, or shown. Neither things happen. jhurvid is just making a large assumption based on vague pieces of dialogue.

We think the Twilight Mirror is doing nothing... until Ganondorf tells us that the malice caused his empowerment. That's the plot twist. You can even see how it is building up to that plot twist by referencing the "evil power" in the Twilight Mirror.

Edited by jhurvid, 08 February 2007 - 07:44 AM.

[Fyxe]

It's interesting how you're the only one who seems to have actually noticed this so-called 'plot twist'.

I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. It's too convoluted. It's far, far far too vague. It doesn't make any logical sense. It goes against all prescedants in the series and in the game. Ganondorf never states that the malice comes from the mirror. He never states that it actually gave him physical power. We never see this happen. The ToP is what gives him strength when he was near death. It's a homage to OoT. Even the music is a homage to OoT.

And of course Ganon was in a weakened state when he was in the Twilight Realm. He was TRAPPED, and possibly forced into his spiritual form, given that's all we and Zant see of him. Take the end of OoT, where we see Ganondorf floating in the void. Would you consider him to be empowered? Of course not. He's weakened. He's defeated. Even with the ToP, he has lost, and looks for his revenge.

The hatred of the ancient Twili that lives on, the desire and lust for power that Zant had, this is what empowers Ganon and allows him to revive himself and awaken himself. Ganondorf is speaking metaphorically. That is why the dialogue is vague.

[Raien]

It's interesting how you're the only one who seems to have actually noticed this so-called 'plot twist'.

Well considering how vague the Sages are in explaining their understanding of events, I'm not surprised you missed it.

I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. It's too convoluted. It's far, far far too vague. It doesn't make any logical sense. It goes against all prescedants in the series and in the game. Ganondorf never states that the malice comes from the mirror. He never states that it actually gave him physical power. We never see this happen. The ToP is what gives him strength when he was near death. It's a homage to OoT. Even the music is a homage to OoT.

Ganondorf never states that the malice comes from Zant. He never states that Zant actually gave him physical power. We never see this happen. The ToP is what gave Ganondorf strength when his evil magic was restored to him through the malice in the Twilight Mirror.

And of course Ganon was in a weakened state when he was in the Twilight Realm. He was TRAPPED, and possibly forced into his spiritual form, given that's all we and Zant see of him. Take the end of OoT, where we see Ganondorf floating in the void. Would you consider him to be empowered? Of course not. He's weakened. He's defeated. Even with the ToP, he has lost, and looks for his revenge.

By that logic, Ganon was weak and disembodied when he was sealed in the Sacred Realm during the Imprisoning War. And as I said before, the disembodied form was powerful enough to destroy the Fused Shadows, which in turn was powerful enough to destroy Zant. Ganondorf's disembodied form is more powerful than Zant.

The hatred of the ancient Twili that lives on, the desire and lust for power that Zant had, this is what empowers Ganon and allows him to revive himself and awaken himself. Ganondorf is speaking metaphorically. That is why the dialogue is vague.

How can one individual possess the malice of another, without that malice becoming something physical? If malice is a metaphor, as you say, then it cannot be possessions of individuals, that others can "inherit" or "steal". Zant's malice is Zant's malice because the malice originates from Zant. The ancient Twili's malice is their own because it was from them that the malice was preserved in the Twilight Mirror. Ganondorf drew deep the ancient Twili's malice because the ancient Twili were the origins of that malice, not Zant.

[Raien]

It's interesting how you're the only one who seems to have actually noticed this so-called 'plot twist'.

Well, considering how vague the Sages are in explaining their understanding of events, I'm not surprised you missed it.

I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. It's too convoluted. It's far, far far too vague. It doesn't make any logical sense. It goes against all prescedants in the series and in the game. Ganondorf never states that the malice comes from the mirror. He never states that it actually gave him physical power. We never see this happen. The ToP is what gives him strength when he was near death. It's a homage to OoT. Even the music is a homage to OoT.

Ganondorf never states that the malice comes from Zant. He never states that Zant actually gave him physical power. We never see this happen. The ToP is what gave Ganondorf strength when his evil magic was restored to him through the malice in the Twilight Mirror.

Notice that I simply edited what you said in your last post. Such is the futility of stating an opinion.

And of course Ganon was in a weakened state when he was in the Twilight Realm. He was TRAPPED, and possibly forced into his spiritual form, given that's all we and Zant see of him. Take the end of OoT, where we see Ganondorf floating in the void. Would you consider him to be empowered? Of course not. He's weakened. He's defeated. Even with the ToP, he has lost, and looks for his revenge.

By that logic, Ganon was weak and disembodied when he was sealed in the Sacred Realm during the Imprisoning War. And as I said before, the disembodied form was powerful enough to destroy the Fused Shadows, which in turn was powerful enough to destroy Zant. Ganondorf's disembodied form is more powerful than Zant.

The hatred of the ancient Twili that lives on, the desire and lust for power that Zant had, this is what empowers Ganon and allows him to revive himself and awaken himself. Ganondorf is speaking metaphorically. That is why the dialogue is vague.

How can one individual possess the malice of another, without that malice becoming something physical? If malice is a metaphor, as you say, then it cannot be a possession of individuals, that others can then "inherit" or "steal". Zant's malice is Zant's malice because the malice originates from Zant. The ancient Twili's malice is their own because it was from them that the malice was preserved in the Twilight Mirror. Ganondorf drew deep the ancient Twili's malice because the ancient Twili were the origins of that malice, not Zant.

Edited by jhurvid, 08 February 2007 - 03:04 PM.

[Jumbie]

Jumbie, I talked with Arturo about that screenshot and I can explain why we see the vague residue of the Triforce mark, even though it is not meant to be there.

You see, if the Triforce mark glows/resonates on Ganondorf's hand, then it requires a separate piece of code from the sprite that makes up Ganondorf's hand. Because this code is separate, the mark has to match the colour of Ganondorf's hand when it is not resonating, so that it camouflages with the colour of his hand. By turning up the brightness from what is actually visible, you are effectively breaking that camouflage, making the mark visible.

Of course, if the mark is not meant to glow, then it can be embedded upon the sprite of the wielder's hand, just like Link when he wears his farming clothes. When the Triforce of Courage is due to resonate, then the separate code is placed on top of the mark that is embedded into Link's sprite.

Thank you, that was interesting! So I was really not supposed to highlight the screenshot.. Forgive me Nintendo!
But speaking of it, is the outline of the Triforce crest indeed not visible on farmer Link's hand? Gotta look for a screenshot...

[Crazy Penguin]

How can one individual possess the malice of another, without that malice becoming something physical? If malice is a metaphor, as you say, then it cannot be a possession of individuals, that others can then "inherit" or "steal".

It's magic. It's a common fantasy convention for emotions and magical power to be tied together.

[FDL]

Thank you, that was interesting! So I was really not supposed to highlight the screenshot.. Forgive me Nintendo!
But speaking of it, is the outline of the Triforce crest indeed not visible on farmer Link's hand? Gotta look for a screenshot...

Exactly. We can't go by that screenshot, because when you pause something midway like that, it blurs and you'll see things that aren't actually there. It'snot accurate, so we have to go by something that is more accurate, such as the ending scene.

[Mgoblue201]

Oh, you. You didn't answer my last post. But I got you.

Ganondorf never states that the malice comes from Zant. He never states that Zant actually gave him physical power. We never see this happen. The ToP is what gave Ganondorf strength when his evil magic was restored to him through the malice in the Twilight Mirror.

He never states the hatred and anguish comes from anything but the Twili. At least Zant is a part of the Twili, so that makes sense. But the mirror would have to act as a middle man. It's one step removed from the Twili. Thus it's a less viable explanation. Which would be okay if something, anything in the game actually connected the two. Not even the scene attempts to connect the two. You're connecting them by a flimsy line that says nothing about the mirror, and you're trying to use some ambiguous "cursed mirror" line. Speaking of which, Auru later calls the mirror accursed, which can mean under a curse, but it can also mean ill-fated, damned, or detestable.

By that logic, Ganon was weak and disembodied when he was sealed in the Sacred Realm during the Imprisoning War. And as I said before, the disembodied form was powerful enough to destroy the Fused Shadows, which in turn was powerful enough to destroy Zant. Ganondorf's disembodied form is more powerful than Zant.

And there's precedence for that. LTTP seems to say that there was a seal on Ganon's power. It also seems to say that Ganon had a tough time moving around within the realm, meaning that within the Dark World itself there was a check on him and his powers. Perhaps that loosened up over time. But anyway, obviously his disombodied form is more powerful than Zant. No one is disputing that. Please stop saying it.

How can one individual possess the malice of another, without that malice becoming something physical? If malice is a metaphor, as you say, then it cannot be possessions of individuals, that others can "inherit" or "steal". Zant's malice is Zant's malice because the malice originates from Zant. The ancient Twili's malice is their own because it was from them that the malice was preserved in the Twilight Mirror. Ganondorf drew deep the ancient Twili's malice because the ancient Twili were the origins of that malice, not Zant.

You're speaking of the series that invented a goddess of time on the spot and let Ganon out of the Sacred Realm for no reason in WW. The entire series is predicated on plot twists that are at best described as convenient. I mean Zelda disappeared...or did she? No, her body's back, but we don't know why. Besides, I'm not even sure what you mean. The anger itself acted like a smelling salt. But instead of being immediate, it took a while. How does it not make sense? He actually says it was his nourishment, which conjurs up an image of feeding, which would be a slower process than one instantaneous moment. By the way, you never answered my questions. I'm not gonna stop harping on those.

Edited by Mgoblue201, 09 February 2007 - 01:39 AM.

[Duke Serkol]

*Dies of laughter upon seeing people readily gouging their own eyes out rather than seeing Ganondorf get the Triforce during TP*

[FDL]

*Dies of laughter upon seeing people readily gouging their own eyes out rather than seeing Ganondorf get the Triforce during TP*

I have no need to gouge my eyes out nor do I have to make up some whacked out theory like jhurvid. We are given absolutely no indication that he gets it at that time and there are many things that are against that very theory, so he didn't get it then. The end.

[Fyxe]

Well, considering how vague the Sages are in explaining their understanding of events, I'm not surprised you missed it.

Me and everyone else. I'm sorry, the plot of TP made perfect sense to me. Nothing was too vague, except this apparently massive plot twist that doesn't exist.

Ganondorf never states that the malice comes from Zant. He never states that Zant actually gave him physical power. We never see this happen. The ToP is what gave Ganondorf strength when his evil magic was restored to him through the malice in the Twilight Mirror.

Hey, wait a second, you know what you just forgot? I don't give a *shit* about 'malice', which is never referred to as a physical force in the game. I don't give a damn about whether Zant gave him physical power or not, because Ganondorf doesn't state that anything gave him physical power.

And The ToP is what gave Ganondorf strength when his evil magic was restored to him through the malice in the Twilight Mirror? That is quite possibly the most rediculous thing I've ever heard.

Notice that I simply edited what you said in your last post. Such is the futility of stating an opinion.

And notice that your edit did nothing to refute my points. Such if the futility of trying childish argumentative tricks like that.

By that logic, Ganon was weak and disembodied when he was sealed in the Sacred Realm during the Imprisoning War. And as I said before, the disembodied form was powerful enough to destroy the Fused Shadows, which in turn was powerful enough to destroy Zant. Ganondorf's disembodied form is more powerful than Zant.

Firstly, it's only more powerful than Zant by the end of the game.

Secondly, I said it was a POSSIBLITY, way to totally ignore my main point, which was that he was trapped, and therefore weakened.

How can one individual possess the malice of another, without that malice becoming something physical?

The fuck? Ganondorf never possesses the malice of anyone. He just states that it empowered him. Being *around* Zant's malice gave Ganondorf strength.

If malice is a metaphor, as you say, then it cannot be a possession of individuals, that others can then "inherit" or "steal". Zant's malice is Zant's malice because the malice originates from Zant.

Again, I NEVER SAID GANONDORF STOLE MALICE. That's just nonsense.

The ancient Twili's malice is their own because it was from them that the malice was preserved in the Twilight Mirror. Ganondorf drew deep the ancient Twili's malice because the ancient Twili were the origins of that malice, not Zant.

The malice of the ancestors to the Twili *lived on* in Zant. Which makes a hell of a lot more sense than living on in the very object that was their downfall, an object used by the gods.

*Dies of laughter upon seeing people readily gouging their own eyes out rather than seeing Ganondorf get the Triforce during TP*

Don't be childish, Serkol. We don't see Ganondorf get the Triforce during TP. The Triforce has never just forced itself into someone like that unless someone tries to possess it. It's against *everything* we already know about the Triforce and about Ganon. Think about it. TWW was a sequel to OoT. Did anyone question where he got the ToP from? No, of course they bloody didn't. TP is also a sequel to OoT. So why the FUCK does everyone suddenly think the Triforce of Power just hopped into his hands?

Answer - the utter hypocritcal 'child timeline'. That's the single and only reason. You're trying to adjust the plot to your own liking to suit your own outdated theory.

[FDL]

Answer - the utter hypocritcal 'child timeline'. That's the single and only reason. You're trying to adjust the plot to your own liking to suit your own outdated theory

Well, even in a split timeline, the child time still would have Ganondorf get the Triforce. There is absolutely no way Ganondorf could not get the Triforce, if you ask me, and look at the game.

[Fyxe]

Well, actually, I was going to make that point as well, FDL. Even if a split happened, Ganondorf would still get the ToP. Why shouldn't he? Why wouldn't he?

I do think the split timeline is absolute nonsense now though. Moreso than before. I might make a topic to argue about it properly, but basically, it comes down to this...

The split timeline was originally set out to fix the inconsistencies between OoT/TWW and ALttP (well, originally it was invented to fix problems between OoT alone and ALttP, but lets ignore that for now), namely Ganondorf having only having the Triforce of Power, Hyrule being flooded, Ganondorf breaking out of the seal, and Ganondorf being deaded.

However, now the split timeline has a real problem. Twilight Princess means that THREE of these problems are STILL THERE. Namely, Ganondorf having the ToP and not the whole thing, Ganondorf being dead at the end and therefore Ganondorf not being sealed in the Dark World.

Almost all the problems of TWW still exist at the end of TP.

The split timeline is therefore rendered pointless.

[FDL]

As it stands now, neither a split timeline nor single timeline works completely. However, I can understand why TP has made the split into a more common theory. However, a split doesn't mean Ganondorf doesn't get the Triforce. OoT and TP go against that, I think.

Edited by Fierce Deity Link, 09 February 2007 - 02:29 PM.

[Duke Serkol]

Don't be childish, Serkol. We don't see Ganondorf get the Triforce during TP. The Triforce has never just forced itself into someone like that unless someone tries to possess it.

I'm not being childish, I'm being amused

But you are right about the Triforce not randomly dropping onto people. I worded my post poorly for brevity but I really should have typed "seeing Ganondorf get the Power of the Gods during TP".

...then again the same people my statement was about don't bother discriminating between the two, so it doesn't really matter

[FDL]

Well, I guess that in TWW they have both the Triforce AND the power of the gods, huh? I mean, we see both referenced, and seeing as it's not the Triforce unless they specifically call it the Triforce, we know they must have both in TWW. Wow, Ganondorf and Link must've been really powerful in TWW, huh?

[Hero of Legend]

...then again the same people my statement was about don't bother discriminating between the two, so it doesn't really matter

That's funny, cuz I remember those two being synonyms since the days of OoT...

The split timeline is therefore rendered pointless.

As an explanation for how OoT leads into ALttP, yes. However, if you remember...

Ocarina of Time basically has two endings of sorts; one has Link as a child and the other has him as an adult. This game, The Wind Waker, takes place a hundred years after the adult Link defeats Ganon at the end of Ocarina.

So with the next OoT sequel, it only makes sense for him to place it after the other ending. Canonically, at least, TP takes place after the child ending, since I doubt the sages just forgot everything about the Hero of Time and how Ganondorf was sealed in the Sacred Realm (and mysteriously escaped) when they told Link about him. Yes, you could explain it, but really, it wouldn't make any sense if it was so.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 09 February 2007 - 05:41 PM.

[Fyxe]

Everyone with eyes knows that OoT has two endings - whether they are in seperate timelines is an entirely different issue.

The Zelda Box certainly implies a single timeline, and other than a vague quote by the creators that appears to be oddly translated, there's no single scrap of evidence for a split. You would of thought that if there was a split, one of the games might of, y'know, mentioned it. A tad. They certainly had ample opportunity in Twilight Princess. Instead the game just makes the split timeline about twice as confusing as any other timeline.

I think a gaiden timeline is much, much more likely. Or even just a very complicated single timeline with lots of events that we, the players, never actually see.

Edited by Fyxe, 09 February 2007 - 05:53 PM.

[FDL]

Ehhh, it's not that unreasonable that they didn't. They had no real need to mention that Ganon had fough the HoT. That's not to say that it is in the adult time, jus that that can't be the reasoning for it.

[MikePetersSucks]

the mirror does not have the properties of twilight

I'm sorry, what? Yes it does. The name should be a big enough give away, but even if not, the fact that it gives Twilight powers to those who possess it's Fragments SHOULD.