126 replies to this topic

[Reflectionist]

In the game, he tells Link that the hidden skills can only be learned by 'our bloodline'

who do you suppose this guy is? Is there a reason he is a werewolf too, like Link?

discuss.

[Mad Scrub]

He was once a hero and many think he is the HoT. If he was the HoT, that means he once had the ToC and one of the Light Spirits said Link inherited certain gifts or traits of a hero. These qualities are what made TP Link unique and turn into a wolf when he entered the Twilight Realm. A tombstone in Hyrule Castle that I think belongs to him refers to him as the Cursed Knight, Soldier or Warrior. All of this seems to suggest to me that that he could be the HoT and that TP Link could be related to him.

Edited by Mad Scrub, 25 December 2006 - 03:18 AM.

[MikePetersSucks]

Yea, but why would the Hero of Time wear armor, be referred to as cursed, and be associated with the color Gold? It's probably one of the old Knights of Hyrule or something.

[Hylian Diety]

I agree with MPS. I don't think he's the Hero of Time at all. The Hero's Shade (as the official US guide calls him) seems to be a Knight of Hyrule. Could even be related to TP Link through some way. When he mentions a bloodline, he seems to be just refering to the bloodline of heroes, and that in order to learn his techniques, you must first be a hero. I dunno, something along those lines. Definitely not the Hero of Time, though.

[Hero of Winds]

I think it's important to realize that Nintendo probably intended for the Hero's Spirit to be the Hero of Time, especially considering how frequent the HoT is referred to throughout the game.

[Hero of Legend]

*Sigh* The Hero's Spirit/Golden Wolf is obviously the Hero of Time. Deny this fact and you deny the blatant intention of the creators, aka canon. And no, things don't have to be spelled out to be factual.

Yea, but why would the Hero of Time wear armor, be referred to as cursed, and be associated with the color Gold? It's probably one of the old Knights of Hyrule or something.

You forgot one-eyed.

But then why would a Knight of Hyrule be any of those things? Not that your arguments can't be explained either, him being a Stalfos (cursed) and embodied through the power of the Triforce of Courage (The Golden Power). What you should ask is why we never saw him turn into a wolf in OoT, though that too has its explanation (OoT was kinda lacking in the Twilight departement).

The Hero's Shade (as the official US guide calls him)

Too bad they just made that up, huh?

seems to be a Knight of Hyrule.

Evidence?

Edited by Hero of Legend, 26 December 2006 - 07:42 PM.

[Hylian Diety]

Lol, funny you would ask for evidence when you can't provide any for claiming he's the Hero of Time.

I'm not saying one way or the other (since I honestly don't know any better), and though the guide isn't technically canon, it does have a comprehensive bestiary with proper names designated to all characters and enemies that I'm more than 80% certain they didn't just pull out of thin air. Among those names is Hero's Shade. Now, that name could also SUPPORT your point that he's the HERO of Time's SHADE, hmm.

Now, why should it be a Knight of Hyrule instead of the Hero of Time? Honestly it could be anyone, but considering the guy is handy with a sword, I would assume him to be a swordsman, and most likely a knight at that. And considering they're in Hyrule, it makes sense to me that he would be a Knight of Hyrule.

And he shouldn't be so quickly labeled Hero of Time because of the reasons MPS mentioned and a few others. One, the Hero of Time has never been associated with gold (frequently green, but never gold). Nor armor for that matter (tunics, instead). Maybe in someone's eyes the Hero of Time could be considered cursed, but in all of the games he's mentioned in, not once is he actually said to be cursed (and remember, you want canon as evidence, not speculation). Also, in all of the games the HoT is in, he never uses ANY of the attacks that he teaches TP Link. Sure, maybe he could have known them but not used them, or learned them later, but that's more speculation. Sure the developers needed something new in TP that wasn't offered in the other games, but that's not in-game canon. The developers don't live in the Zelda Universe, so in that sense, their words are less credible than...even Tingle's.

And if you insist that the developers intended it (and so obviously, at that), then show a quote from an interview or something. If they were alluding to the HoT, I think they would have made more similarities, rather than making them seem like entirely different people.

Again, though, I don't know one way or the other. I just don't think he should be so quickly labeled the Hero of Time, when there isn't any evidence of it.

[Hero of Legend]

Lol, funny you would ask for evidence when you can't provide any for claiming he's the Hero of Time.

He is the Hero who saved Hyrule, and he is Link's predecessor. Link has his spirit inside him (Reincarnation, dude) That's all the proof you need.

Honestly it could be anyone, but considering the guy is handy with a sword, I would assume him to be a swordsman, and most likely a knight at that.

Wow, that sounds almost like the Hero of Time!

One, the Hero of Time has never been associated with gold (frequently green, but never gold).

Didn't I just explain that to you?

Nor armor for that matter (tunics, instead).

"Link has the Magic Armor in Twilight Princess! Oh noes, he's not the real Link!"

Maybe in someone's eyes the Hero of Time could be considered cursed, but in all of the games he's mentioned in, not once is he actually said to be cursed (and remember, you want canon as evidence, not speculation).

I've got that. What do you have, Mr. Knight of Hyrule?

Also, in all of the games the HoT is in, he never uses ANY of the attacks that he teaches TP Link. Sure, maybe he could have known them but not used them, or learned them later, but that's more speculation.)

So? They ripped off TMC. That doesn't mean anything.

The developers don't live in the Zelda Universe, so in that sense, their words are less credible than...even Tingle's.

They make it.

And if you insist that the developers intended it (and so obviously, at that), then show a quote from an interview or something. If they were alluding to the HoT, I think they would have made more similarities, rather than making them seem like entirely different people.

He is the Hero. It doesn’t become any more similar than that.

Again, though, I don't know one way or the other. I just don't think he should be so quickly labeled the Hero of Time, when there isn't any evidence of it.

And there is no "evidence" the Triforce is in Twilight Princess, because they never say so. Gues what? That doesn't mean its a different Triforce.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 27 December 2006 - 07:44 AM.

[Duke Serkol]

And there is no "evidence" the Triforce is in Twilight Princess, because they never say so.

*Pokes head into the topic* I'll hold you to that!

[Hero of Winds]

This isn't rocket science, people. The Hero's Spirit said he used to be a hero. Aonuma, Miyamoto, and the game itself have made it painfully obvious that TP is (however it best fits your timeline) a continuation of OoT.

Put 2-and-2 together.

[MikePetersSucks]

He is the Hero who saved Hyrule, and he is Link's predecessor. Link has his spirit inside him (Reincarnation, dude) That's all the proof you need.

I'm only halfway through the game, but when does it say he's a Hero that saved Hyrule? Not that it matters. The Knights of Hyrule saved the land in LTTP's backstory. As for having his spirit inside of him via reincarnation. Um...duh? How can TP Link be the HoT's reincarnation of the HoT's spirit is like, wandering around teaching him sword techniques? Dee

This isn't rocket science, people. The Hero's Spirit said he used to be a hero. Aonuma, Miyamoto, and the game itself have made it painfully obvious that TP is (however it best fits your timeline) a continuation of OoT.

Put 2-and-2 together.

LTTP is a continuation of OOT. Does that mean LTTP Link's uncle is the Hero of Time? No.

The only conclusive evidence I see for the Hero of Time arguement is bloodline (which doesn't mean anything. Link, in almost all his incarnations, has had Knight lineage) and the Wolf Form the Shade takes. Which doesn't really mean anything, since LTTP Link had a rabbit form when his heart was physically manifested. Different hearts = different animal forms.

I could also trounce the wolf arguement by mentioning the Japanese superstition that wolves were thought to be the spirits of dead knights and samurai appearing to their descendants. Link was never a knight or a samurai, and I don't expect him to become one after OOT. He never seemed like that type of dude.

[Tekky]

When you get the last hidden move, the Wolf Guy says words to the effect of "I too chose the path of the Hero" or something like that

[Hero of Winds]

LTTP is a continuation of OOT. Does that mean LTTP Link's uncle is the Hero of Time? No.

Don't be stubborn. The connection between ALttP and OoT is, at best, a retelling of the Imprisoning War - living out the backstory of a game that occurs quite a while after OoT.

TP, on the other hand, takes place in the same settings as OoT. Both the game's creators and the game itself have made it obvious that TP is the spiritual successor to OoT. Furthermore, we have constant mentions of the legendary, ancient hero (i.e. the Hero of Time). If you cannot accept the explicit intention to link OoT and TP, and the Hero's Spirit being one such link (pun intended), then you're being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

It's no wonder there's so much debate about the Zelda timeline...

Edited by Hero of Winds, 27 December 2006 - 03:11 PM.

[Tri-Enforcer]

When TP Link first receives the green tunic, a text box indicates that the 'legendary hero' once wore it. If Nintendo wanted to make it 'obvious' that the ghostly warrior was the Hero of Time, then why not depict him wearing the tunic and hat as opposed to only armor, considering the legendary hero once wore the tunic. The Hero of Men, from the Minish Cap backstory was depicted as wearing a green tunic, and so was the Hero of Time in the TWW backstory--that's what I call an 'obvious' portrayal of a Link from a previous adventure or installment.

Edited by Tri-Enforcer, 27 December 2006 - 04:48 PM.

[Hero of Winds]

How could TP Link and the Hero's Spirit wear the same tunic at the same time?

[SOAP]

I just now came across him and I gotta say, I'm reminded of the Hero of Time as well. Not only does he talk about bloodlines, he talks [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] about courage and living up to the green tunic. Why would the green tunic even matter to him if he's not a Link himeslf or knows of the Hero of Time? And fact you meet him in the forest... where... OoT Link started out and where we last him... and the fact we meet him when we just barely got the Tunic. That's the first impression I got.

[Hylian Diety]

Real mature Hero of Legend. Real mature. Shall we all just have quote-posts to make us sound more wise, or is that right reserved for only you and your sage wisdom?

If you're all so insistent that he IS the Hero of Time, dish out the quotes that says so. Until you do, your word's as good as mine. You say the developers inteded it, and if they did please show the interview quotes. If you don't have them, don't make your large accusations on their oh-so-obvious intentions.

And I've said this already, I'm not saying he is or is not the Hero of Time for certain, because there MAY JUST BE something you guys know or have seen that I haven't. I'm just saying he doesn't seem to the Hero of Time. He could be anyone.

Edited by Hylian Diety, 27 December 2006 - 07:23 PM.

[Showsni]

Doesn't he call Link "son" when he passes on the seventh move? This could just be a term of affection, but what if he is literally Link's father? Note that I haven't completed the game yet, so I may be missing some information.

[Hero of Winds]

Until you do, your word's as good as mine.

You thought that the Twilight Realm was the Sacred Realm. So, no, your word is definitely not as good as mine.

Doesn't he call Link "son" when he passes on the seventh move? This could just be a term of affection, but what if he is literally Link's father?

I think it's the former. IIRC, Link in TWW is also called "my son" or "my child" by the King.

Edited by Hero of Winds, 27 December 2006 - 09:19 PM.

[SOAP]

Real mature Hero of Legend. Real mature. Shall we all just have quote-posts to make us sound more wise, or is that right reserved for only you and your sage wisdom?

If you're all so insistent that he IS the Hero of Time, dish out the quotes that says so. Until you do, your word's as good as mine. You say the developers inteded it, and if they did please show the interview quotes. If you don't have them, don't make your large accusations on their oh-so-obvious intentions.

And I've said this already, I'm not saying he is or is not the Hero of Time for certain, because there MAY JUST BE something you guys know or have seen that I haven't. I'm just saying he doesn't seem to the Hero of Time. He could be anyone.

Geez man, it's just speculation. There are no quotes to prove this and i don't see why there should be. It's just the impression he gives off to some people. If you don't see it don't worry about it. It doesn't effect the timeline if he's OoT Link or not. No point getting worked up over it.

The thing that really got me was the first move he teaches Link, the Finishing Blow. Or was it the Ending BloW? It was very simmilar to the final blow Link delivers to Ganon in both TWW and OoT.

[Hero of Legend]

I'm only halfway through the game, but when does it say he's a Hero that saved Hyrule?

Several times throughout the game. Go find them yourself.

Not that it matters. The Knights of Hyrule saved the land in LTTP's backstory.

Problem - There are no knights who saved Hyrule in Twilighty Princess. There is however, a Hero who, for example, saved the Gorons and hid the Hero's Bow in the Goron Mines. He was also involved with the Zora and the of course with the Hylian Royal Family. We know that's the Hero's Spirit, because, well, it’s rather obvious to anyone who has played a Zelda game.

As for having his spirit inside of him via reincarnation. Um...duh? How can TP Link be the HoT's reincarnation of the HoT's spirit is like, wandering around teaching him sword techniques? Dee

Because he is the incarnation of the spirit inside Link, manifested through the power of the Triforce of Courage. This is stated.

I could also trounce the wolf arguement by mentioning the Japanese superstition that wolves were thought to be the spirits of dead knights and samurai appearing to their descendants. Link was never a knight or a samurai, and I don't expect him to become one after OOT. He never seemed like that type of dude.

But he is in Twilight Princess (Link himself turns into a wolf).

If Nintendo wanted to make it 'obvious' that the ghostly warrior was the Hero of Time, then why not depict him wearing the tunic and hat as opposed to only armor, considering the legendary hero once wore the tunic. The Hero of Men, from the Minish Cap backstory was depicted as wearing a green tunic, and so was the Hero of Time in the TWW backstory--that's what I call an 'obvious' portrayal of a Link from a previous adventure or installment.

Because in OoT, it is said that everyone who becomes lost in the Lost Woods become a Stalfos (and they don't wear any clothes). The Hero of Time was last seen in the Lost Woods... Get the connection?

Oh, and he is left-handed. That's a pretty obvious connection to me.

If you're all so insistent that he IS the Hero of Time, dish out the quotes that says so.

There are no such quotes, duh. I have been supplying evidence, but if you ignore that, well that’s your problem.

I'm just saying he doesn't seem to the Hero of Time. He could be anyone.

But that's wrong. You don't have any evidence at all so shut up.

There are no quotes to prove this and i don't see why there should be. It's just the impression he gives off to some people. If you don't see it don't worry about it. It doesn't effect the timeline if he's OoT Link or not. No point getting worked up over it.

Except it was something intended by the creators. It is either right or wrong, and that's worth debating over.

Not that this particular case is debatable...

The thing that really got me was the first move he teaches Link, the Finishing Blow. Or was it the Ending BloW? It was very simmilar to the final blow Link delivers to Ganon in both TWW and OoT.

And Link uses it to kill him in TP. Coincidence? I think not.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 28 December 2006 - 08:28 AM.

[D~N]

That guy isn't here anymore. Anybody who comes into the forest will be lost. Everybody will become a Stalfos. Everybody, Stalfos

That's what got me on this one. You may see the conection, but if you don't then that's fine too. It's all perspective. For myself, I think that they are too similar to be different people. I mean, the golden wolf, the bloodline, all that good stuff. It all alludes to the Hero's Shade being the HoT, but it's an opinion kind of thing. No facts to present here; just heavy implications. Whether you accept them or not is your choice.

[Tri-Enforcer]

(SOAP) I just now came across him and I gotta say, I'm reminded of the Hero of Time as well. Not only does he talk about bloodlines, he talks [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] about courage and living up to the green tunic. Why would the green tunic even matter to him if he's not a Link himeslf or knows of the Hero of Time? And fact you meet him in the forest... where... OoT Link started out and where we last him... and the fact we meet him when we just barely got the Tunic. That's the first impression I got.

That still could've been someone who was highly fond of the Hero of Time or knew him. The King of Red Lions in TWW, knew [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] about the Hero of Time and what it took to be a legendary hero--so TP wouldn't be the first time a ghost knew [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] about the legendary hero.

(Hero of Legend) Because in OoT, it is said that everyone who becomes lost in the Lost Woods become a Stalfos (and they don't wear any clothes).

Who the heck says that the Hero of Time ever got lost in the Lost Woods? Of all people...the Hero of Time? If anything, I would imagine after playing through OOT he knows his way around those woods pretty well.

Edited by Tri-Enforcer, 28 December 2006 - 01:31 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

When you get the last hidden move, the Wolf Guy says words to the effect of "I too chose the path of the Hero" or something like that

Which means he could be a Knight as well as a past Link. Link isn't the only Hero in Hyrule. He's just the most powerful/famous/blessed by the Gods and whatnot.

TP, on the other hand, takes place in the same settings as OoT. Both the game's creators and the game itself have made it obvious that TP is the spiritual successor to OoT. Furthermore, we have constant mentions of the legendary, ancient hero (i.e. the Hero of Time). If you cannot accept the explicit intention to link OoT and TP, and the Hero's Spirit being one such link (pun intended), then you're being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

Just because the Hero of Time is mentioned doesn't mean that some random ghost has to be him. That's just dumb.

How could TP Link and the Hero's Spirit wear the same tunic at the same time?

Ghosts can wear whatever the hell they want.

I just now came across him and I gotta say, I'm reminded of the Hero of Time as well. Not only does he talk about bloodlines, he talks [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] about courage and living up to the green tunic. Why would the green tunic even matter to him if he's not a Link himeslf or knows of the Hero of Time? And fact you meet him in the forest... where... OoT Link started out and where we last him... and the fact we meet him when we just barely got the Tunic. That's the first impression I got.

Because Link always did ramble on about bloodlines, right?

Doesn't he call Link "son" when he passes on the seventh move? This could just be a term of affection, but what if he is literally Link's father? Note that I haven't completed the game yet, so I may be missing some information.

If he literally means "Son" then he can't be the Hero of Time by that merit alone, atleast. Being TP Link's father is certainly as good a possibility as any.

Problem - There are no knights who saved Hyrule in Twilighty Princess. There is however, a Hero who, for example, saved the Gorons and hid the Hero's Bow in the Goron Mines. He was also involved with the Zora and the of course with the Hylian Royal Family. We know that's the Hero's Spirit, because, well, it’s rather obvious to anyone who has played a Zelda game.

When does the Hero's Spirit ever claim to have done those things?

Because he is the incarnation of the spirit inside Link, manifested through the power of the Triforce of Courage. This is stated.

Where?

But he is in Twilight Princess (Link himself turns into a wolf).

Yes, I know, but that doesn't mean OOT Link's animal form would've been a wolf. He always struck me as being closer to LTTP Link's bunny form that TP's Wolf form.

Because in OoT, it is said that everyone who becomes lost in the Lost Woods become a Stalfos (and they don't wear any clothes). The Hero of Time was last seen in the Lost Woods... Get the connection?

Yea, and then he got warped to Termina. Lolz.

There are no such quotes, duh. I have been supplying evidence, but if you ignore that, well that’s your problem.

Really inconclusive evidence.

But that's wrong. You don't have any evidence at all so shut up.

You don't need evidence for a claim such as "He could be anyone." Since it's not that specific of a claim.

Except it was something intended by the creators. It is either right or wrong, and that's worth debating over.

Not that this particular case is debatable...

Can you prove it was intended by the creators, and not just fans overanalyzing things like they're prone to do? (Seriously, he's left handed, so he's Link? There's more than one left-handed swordsman in the lands.)

[Hero of Winds]

Which means he could be a Knight as well as a past Link. Link isn't the only Hero in Hyrule. He's just the most powerful/famous/blessed by the Gods and whatnot.

The game only talks about one past hero.

Just because the Hero of Time is mentioned doesn't mean that some random ghost has to be him. That's just dumb.

What's dumb is seeing how blatant both the creators and the game itself establish connections to OoT, and then when someone comes along and calls himself a hero, passing off said person as just some random hero/knight.

Ghosts can wear whatever the hell they want.

Wtf is that supposed to be? Is that a part of your argument, or were you just unable to say anything remotely intelligent?

When does the Hero's Spirit ever claim to have done those things?

Explain this to me:

All throughout the game, people talk about a legendary, ancient hero. A hero who left his bow with the Gorons. A hero who had Zora Armor fashioned for him by King Zora. A hero whose tunic and powers have been passed on to the new Link. A hero who "saved Hyrule from danger long ago."

Then we meet someone named the Hero's Spirit, who said that he was a hero during his lifetime and wants to pass on his skills as the hero to TP Link.

And you're trying to tell me that these two heroes are completely different people?

Yes, I know, but that doesn't mean OOT Link's animal form would've been a wolf. He always struck me as being closer to LTTP Link's bunny form that TP's Wolf form.

Nobody cares. What you think OoT Link's animal form might've been is totally irrelevant to the argument.

(Btw, had OoT Link entered the Twilight Realm, he would've transformed into a wolf as well. That transformation occurs because of the Triforce of Courage.)

Yea, and then he got warped to Termina. Lolz.

And then he returned at the end. Lolz.

You don't need evidence for a claim such as "He could be anyone." Since it's not that specific of a claim.
Can you prove it was intended by the creators, and not just fans overanalyzing things like they're prone to do? (Seriously, he's left handed, so he's Link? There's more than one left-handed swordsman in the lands.)

You think this is overanalyzing? Everything related to an ancient hero is attributed to the Hero of Time, and then the spirit of an ancient hero appears. So calling that spirit the Hero of Time is overanalyzing?

Saying that the Hero's Spirit isn't the Hero of Time is like saying that the "ancient hero" referred to throughout the game isn't the Hero of Time. Seriously. It's the exact same argument. So pick one: either the Hero of Time, Hero's Spirit, and ancient hero are three different people, or they're the same person.

Edited by Hero of Winds, 28 December 2006 - 02:35 PM.

[Hero of Legend]

Which means he could be a Knight as well as a past Link. Link isn't the only Hero in Hyrule. He's just the most powerful/famous/blessed by the Gods and whatnot.

That's complete and utter bullshit. The only "Hero" we have ever known is Link.

(Seriously, he's left handed, so he's Link? There's more than one left-handed swordsman in the lands.)

There is? Cuz I sure haven't seen any.

[Showsni]

The only "Hero" we have ever known is Link.

No he isn't. E.g. the goron hero who defeated Volvagia with the Megaton Hammer.

[Hero of Legend]

The "hero of the Gorons" =/= The "Hero" (note the capital ‘H’)

Hero, as in, the Guy with the Master Sword, the Guy Who Saved Hyrule, the Guy Chosen by the Goddesses.

Again, no one but Link has ever been called that.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 28 December 2006 - 05:56 PM.

[Hero of Winds]

No he isn't. E.g. the goron hero who defeated Volvagia with the Megaton Hammer.

True, but the Hero of Gorons wouldn't have a human-like spirit.

[Kish]

It's just some knight. There are plenty of guys in that bloodline between OoT Link and TP Link, and if they'd meant for the ghost to be the Hero of Time, they'd have him look the part. It's not like they were shy with the fan service in this game or anything.