114 replies to this topic

[LionHarted]

The mirror on TP is the Mirror of Twilight. The mirror on FSA is the Dark Mirror. The former leads to the Twilight Realm, and the latter "reveals the wickedness within a person and brings it to life. (-White Maiden, FSA)"

The Twilight Mirror also "reveals the wickedness within a person and bring it to life." This function is witnessed with respect to one of the bosses.

EDIT: On a slightly different note, Miyamoto heavily invested himself during the last year of development. Maybe we can blame him for screwing things up, as usual.

Edited by LionHarted, 20 November 2006 - 08:40 PM.

[Vertiboy]

The Dark Mirror was also a prison for a dark tribe:

In the heart of the forest is a temple. The Dark Mirror can be found there.

Long ago, a dark tribe invaded Hyrule.

They were defeated and imprisoned within the mirror.

The tribe's mirror prison was then secreted away and hidden in the forest temple to sever its connection to this world.

That Dark Mirror must never fall into the hands of those with evil hearts.

I forgot all about that. Still, the Twilight Mirror was used as a gateway to the Twilight Realm, while the Dark Mirror is the prison of the evil tribe. I'm not saying that they can't be the same mirror, but that they don't need to be.

The Twilight Mirror also "reveals the wickedness within a person and bring it to life." This function is witnessed with respect to one of the bosses.

Are you talking about the (highlight for spoilers) Blizzeta boss? In FSA the Dark Mirror brought the evil to life as in a physical being. For example, Ganon used the Dark Mirror to create all of the Dark Links in FSA. In TP, however, the Twilight Mirror (highlight again for spoilers)turns Blizzeta itself evil, but it does not create a copy.

[LionHarted]

Are you talking about the (highlight for spoilers) Blizzeta boss? In FSA the Dark Mirror brought the evil to life as in a physical being. For example, Ganon used the Dark Mirror to create all of the Dark Links in FSA. In TP, however, the Twilight Mirror (highlight again for spoilers)turns Blizzeta itself evil, but it does not create a copy.

Which is quite irrelevant, since the description of the functions still matches. Also, the Mirror is used to create more than just Shadow Links in FSA--it is also used to transform the Knights into monsters, and to cause the people in Kakariko to lose their humanity.

[TSA]

Hmm...the Mirror of Twilight was used to imprisong beings into the Twilight Realm, according to Midna, but it is also a gateway to that realm. It really does seem to lend itself to the Dark Mirror and Magic Mirror in FSA and ALttP...

[LionHarted]

Hmm...the Mirror of Twilight was used to imprisong beings into the Twilight Realm, according to Midna, but it is also a gateway to that realm. It really does seem to lend itself to the Dark Mirror and Magic Mirror in FSA and ALttP...

The only problem is the "utter destruction" of the mirror by Midna in the end... although... it could simply be referring to the connection between the Light and Twilight realms being "utterly destroyed", and not the mirror itself. The mirror pieces seem to disappear at the end of the game... but, then again, Hyrule castle explodes, too, and it is still standing later on.

Who knows what the future may hold?

[TSA]

Yeah...if fricking Hyrule Castle BLOWS UP, and comes back, then a mirror can come back...

[LionHarted]

Yeah...if fricking Hyrule Castle BLOWS UP, and comes back, then a mirror can come back...

In fact, I could see a MM-style sequel in which Link tries to repair the Mirror/Fused Shadows in order to contact Midna, which would again have him possibly leaving Hyrule.

Gee, I wonder what Nintendo could do with that...

[TSA]

Now that Nintendo threw everyone a curve ball with TP, I wonder if Eiji Aonuma's remarks about Phantom Hourglass are true now - how he recently said the game is not a sequel to TWW...

[LionHarted]

Now that Nintendo threw everyone a curve ball with TP, I wonder if Eiji Aonuma's remarks about Phantom Hourglass are true now - how he recently said the game is not a sequel to TWW...

Not a "true" sequel, if I recall. Since it features Link and Tetra, I imagine it's still somewhat of a sequel, and that he was squelching all those stupid "new Hyrule will be found in PH" rumors.

[coinilius]

Yeah...if fricking Hyrule Castle BLOWS UP, and comes back, then a mirror can come back...

Fan fiction alert, but maybe the various shards of the Twilight Mirror (assuming they aren't so utterly destroyed as it would have you believe) are re-made into the Dark Mirror and the Magic Mirror of the later games... the Twilight Mirror was a lot bigger than those two mirrors, after all.

Of course, a castle is made of mundane stone and can be rebuilt, whereas enchanted mirros may be a little more difficult to recreate.

EDIT: As for PH... since Tetra is supposed to be in it, I hope it's at least a sequel in the sense that it stars the same characters as TWW did - having another Link and Tetra on the Great Sea in a different time period would be very... odd.

Edited by coinilius, 21 November 2006 - 06:37 PM.

[LionHarted]

Fan fiction alert, but maybe the various shards of the Twilight Mirror (assuming they aren't so utterly destroyed as it would have you believe) are re-made into the Dark Mirror and the Magic Mirror of the later games... the Twilight Mirror was a lot bigger than those two mirrors, after all.

This is a good point.

Of course, a castle is made of mundane stone and can be rebuilt, whereas enchanted mirros may be a little more difficult to recreate.

Rebuilt within the less-than-reasonable-for-such-an-undertaking time frame over which TP's ending takes place? I doubt it.

[Hero of Winds]

Now that Nintendo threw everyone a curve ball with TP, I wonder if Eiji Aonuma's remarks about Phantom Hourglass are true now - how he recently said the game is not a sequel to TWW...

I think TP's "weaker" storyline has to do with the amount of influence that Miyamoto invested into this game. Even Aonuma admitted that, in it's final year of development, Miyamoto put a large degree of time into TP.

[LionHarted]

Question time!: Is the name of the strange swordsman/ghost wolf who teaches you the "Song of Healing" howl and the sword techniques ever revealed?

[TSA]

No. I thought it was the Hero of Time...though.

Also, I know that PH will not have Ganondorf and is not a continuation of the storyline of TWW directly, but Aonuma said PH is not a sequel even after all this was revealed.

It's possible they're completely changing PH...

[coinilius]

Rebuilt within the less-than-reasonable-for-such-an-undertaking time frame over which TP's ending takes place? I doubt it.

Maybe the bricks were magically put back together or something... of course, if magics involved, then the difficulty of restoring the shards becomes a moot point anyway, so... er, carry on

I think TP's "weaker" storyline has to do with the amount of influence that Miyamoto invested into this game. Even Aonuma admitted that, in it's final year of development, Miyamoto put a large degree of time into TP.

But then again, maybe Miyamoto's extra time investment was concerned with gameplay related issues, and didn't really effect the storyline development?

[TSA]

Miyamoto didn't do the storyline...he was gameplay guru...he's admitted many times, even in the TP interviews with Iwata...he really isn't a story guy.

[LionHarted]

Miyamoto didn't do the storyline...he was gameplay guru...he's admitted many times, even in the TP interviews with Iwata...he really isn't a story guy.

Miyamoto
Bringing something to completion becomes really fun. Before you reach the final stage, you can get obsessive and feel like you've got to add more and more. This desire to expand the game is overwhelming, so you find yourself unable to grasp that sense of achievement that you get from completing a project.

Aonuma
It's just that, until you've reached that point it's vital that you are being pointed in the right direction for making the transition from a state of disorder to being able to experience that thrill of completing something. This is what sets the quality of the work apart, and where Miyamoto-san shows such focus. Quite frankly, I still can't see things that clearly. He'll say to me: "How many times have we been through this? And you still get confused?!" But, yes, I still lack that certain clarity. And because I still suffer with this, so in turn do my staff. That's one of the major reasons why we couldn't see the final destination clearly.

Miyamoto
Well, actually, I lose focus too you know. But when it happens, I just try to tell myself to get back on track and move forward. It still happens though.

Iwata
Sometimes thinking about something too deeply can cause you to lose focus. Which is not to say it's a bad thing to think deeply...

Miyamoto
That's right. It's okay to be uncertain from time to time. But by making a decision and sticking to it, you can keep moving forward.

Source: Nintendo-Europe

This all seems to suggest storyline involvement to me--not simply gameplay involvement. What--was Aonuma and his team confused by Miyamoto's gameplay suggestions? Given the confusing nature of the ending... I shouldn't need to elaborate.

[coinilius]

Source: Nintendo-Europe

This all seems to suggest storyline involvement to me--not simply gameplay involvement. What--was Aonuma and his team confused by Miyamoto's gameplay suggestions? Given the confusing nature of the ending... I shouldn't need to elaborate.

Actually, that seemed just as suggestive of gameplay elements as it did storyline elements to me... all that talk about adding more and more and focusing could just as easily be about game issues. But if those quotes are about storyline issues, it still sounds like he was giving input into shaping and focusing pre-existing ideas.

Edited by coinilius, 21 November 2006 - 06:57 PM.

[TSA]

That's what it says, but...I mean, it's dangerous if this is true. Now fans may think Miyamoto made TP too much like OoT...and could question his ability to make a Zelda game other than OoT...

Also, here's some more cool info:
http://video.google....7...50577&hl=en

And:
http://video.google....1...74382&hl=en

And:
http://video.google....5...80660&hl=en

Edited by TSA, 21 November 2006 - 06:57 PM.

[LionHarted]

Ah. And what of the 'sky beings'? Are they the Ooccoo-like creatures? I know we see them in the city in the sky, and I know the name of the civilization is Oocca, but are the Ooccoos (the ones you use in dungeons) the tribe that existed long before the Hylians (said to have created them in that vid), or is the tribe in question a different group?

Eiji Aonuma also revealed Twilight Princess has more "Miyamoto" in it than previous titles since Ocarina of Time.

Edited by LionHarted, 21 November 2006 - 07:09 PM.

[SOAP]

No. I thought it was the Hero of Time...though.

Also, I know that PH will not have Ganondorf and is not a continuation of the storyline of TWW directly, but Aonuma said PH is not a sequel even after all this was revealed.

It's possible they're completely changing PH...

Augh! Why!?

A friend of mine told me they're trying to connect it TP somehow. I hope my friend is just crazy.

[LionHarted]

TP Link has the Triforce of Courage. The Triforce of Courage was revealed, in OoT, to be the one on the bottom-right. Link's piece is mirrored. You see it in the scene in which he transforms into a wolf. It is on the bottom-left.

Zelda's piece is not mirrored, for whatever reason. Hers still appears on the bottom-left side. Looks like Nintendo got sloppy.

Edited by LionHarted, 22 November 2006 - 09:16 AM.

[SOAP]

How come he has the Triforce of Courage? (Don't answer that. That was rhetorical) I thought OoT Link had it. How does it pass from him to TP Link? Blood lineage? Plaese don't answer these questions directly, I've been spoiled enough. Just tell me if the game explains it or not.

[LionHarted]

How come he has the Triforce of Courage? (Don't answer that. That was rhetorical) I thought OoT Link had it. How does it pass from him to TP Link? Blood lineage? Plaese don't answer these questions directly, I've been spoiled enough. Just tell me if the game explains it or not.

I don't know. I don't have the game.

I could be wrong about him even having it, but the cutscene in question certainly shows only one of the triangles "fully glowing", and the details surrounding its appearance certainly sounds and behaves in the same way the appearances of the other characters' pieces do.

Edited by LionHarted, 22 November 2006 - 10:26 AM.

[Vertiboy]

Maybe the two mirrors are just different mirrors...

I think that Phantom Hourglass will be a sequel to The Wind Waker in the way that Link's Awakening was to A Link to the Past or Majora's Mask was to Ocarina of Time.