Well, I noticed that we've finally got three Catholics (still waiting on the Hindus and Buddhists, though)! So here's a good debate for all of you Catholic Republicans.
The Roman Catholic Church is pro-life from cradle to grave. That is, they're anti-abortion and anti-death penalty. Personally, I highly respect Rome's position on this.
That's why it puzzles me that some Catholics are pro-death penalty. How does that work? If the church which you believe to be the one and only "Holy Catholic Church" has deemed the death penalty to be ungodly, how can you support such a position?
Roman Catholics for Death?
Started by
arunma
, Sep 17 2004 08:44 AM
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#1
arunma
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 08:44 AM
#2
Alakhriveion
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 08:48 AM
The Pope is pretty much solid on being against the president, he's hit him on the War, the Death Penalty, Guns, and allowing contraceptives.
#3
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 11:53 AM
Good!Originally posted by Alakhriveion@Sep 17 2004, 08:48 AM
The Pope is pretty much solid on being against the president, he's hit him on the War, the Death Penalty, Guns, and allowing contraceptives.
...except I'm all for contraceptives. A male's ejaculate is not a form of life (at least not a form worth protecting).
#4
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 12:35 PM
Oh, yeah? Look a sperm in the eye right before he dies, and say that too it! You can't, can you?
What do you mean, which side am I on?
What do you mean, which side am I on?
#5
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Alakhriveion@Sep 17 2004, 01:35 PM
Oh, yeah? Look a sperm in the eye right before he dies, and say that too it! You can't, can you?
What do you mean, which side am I on?
Look a sperm in the eye before it dies...
but to do that arunma would have to...oh GOD!!!
*throws up*
But now that I'm okay...when I was a Roman Catholic, I was against abortion and the death penalty. To those who are against abortion and for the death penalty, I think they are placing different levels of value on the potential life, versus the life of an offender TO life.
And I didn't always believe what the Pope says, because I believed my free will meant I made my decisions, not old man John Paul (I mean no offense by this comment, it is light-hearted...let out a bellowing laugh)
#6
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 03:07 PM
I'm for the death penalty but against abortion. Why not just give your kid up for adoption to someone who wants him/her?
#7
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 03:09 PM
Why are you for the death penalty?
Can you give us a bit more info?
Can you give us a bit more info?
#8
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 03:18 PM
I have always thought, Catholic or not, that the Catholic Church is very tolerant and civilized, about the Catholics who support the death penalty, well, I have never met one, it's rare to find someone who thinks it's right in my country.
#9
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 03:25 PM
Well, the problem here is that I believe in God and belong to the church, but I don't believe it is always right. It's made of people. People can be wrong.
I believe in the death penalty (only in extreme cases) because while an unborn child has done nothing wrong, people like Osama bin Laden simply must be eliminated to make the world a safe place.
I believe in the death penalty (only in extreme cases) because while an unborn child has done nothing wrong, people like Osama bin Laden simply must be eliminated to make the world a safe place.
#10
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 03:27 PM
I say an arm for an arm, If you kill somebody (not in self defense) you deserve to die. And if you rape someone you deserve to die (or be raped).
#11
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 03:28 PM
The official stance of Rome on the death penalty is that it is bad. The Catholic magazine my family subscribes to stresses this a lot. The Church is always interested in preserving life, and in the case of a criminal, they would want him to live specifically so that he might be turned to the light.
I think the Church does allow nations to use the death penalty in extreme situations, but even then they prefer that a better alternative be used.
Yes, some Catholics are for the death penalty, but some "Catholics" are also for abortion. Think of it that way. The question is whether they should associate themselves with an institution that they disagree with on key doctrines.
Also, the contraception issue is not about preserving life, we believe that life doesn't start till conception. That's another issue altogether.
I think the Church does allow nations to use the death penalty in extreme situations, but even then they prefer that a better alternative be used.
Yes, some Catholics are for the death penalty, but some "Catholics" are also for abortion. Think of it that way. The question is whether they should associate themselves with an institution that they disagree with on key doctrines.
Also, the contraception issue is not about preserving life, we believe that life doesn't start till conception. That's another issue altogether.
#13
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 03:32 PM
Originally posted by Ganondorf@Sep 17 2004, 04:27 PM
I say an arm for an arm, If you kill somebody (not in self defense) you deserve to die. And if you rape someone you deserve to die (or be raped).
I'm guessing you aren't Christian? Jesus kind of condemned that notion.
#14
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 03:40 PM
I'm supposed to be Christian cause I go to a Catholic school. And Moses killed people so Jesus is anti-Moses. Same with a lot of other Old Testament guys.
#15
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 03:48 PM
I'm atheist and I go to a Catholic school...
Anyway, I think that Jesus was very smart and wise, crazy, yes, but very smart and wise.
Anyway, I think that Jesus was very smart and wise, crazy, yes, but very smart and wise.
#16
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 03:53 PM
I believe in most Catholic things except for the Trinity and that Mary was a virgin. In the Bible it never says anything about a Trinity, it was an assumption made by the church. And I believe that Jesus was married. There was a show on TV once and it convinced me.
#17
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 04:22 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Ganondorf+Sep 17 2004, 03:27 PM-->
QUOTE(Ganondorf @ Sep 17 2004, 03:27 PM)
I say an arm for an arm, If you kill somebody (not in self defense) you deserve to die. And if you rape someone you deserve to die (or be raped).
[/b][/quote]
Jesus disagrees.
[quote]Originally posted by Matthew 5:38-42@
"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.[/quote]
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#22
Which is often times Christian-speak for, "He's got a good point."
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#28
Jesus didn't kill people because that wasn't the right course of action (not too mention unbecoming of a messiah whose main deal was pacifism). And the Bible really hasn't been edited much at all. It's a serious offense in Judaism to mess with scripture, so transcribers were obsessive about getting every word right. As for the Apocrypha, there were many books that did not make it into the Bible because they were deemed, after much deliberation on the part of the Nicean Council, to not be considered divinely inspired, due to either inconcistency or questionable authenticity.
In a thread in the old LA, people were also being conspiracy nuts about the Church, claiming that she's been trying to cover up stupid details for millenia, with (what seems to me) very little proof. "The Church doesn't want us to know the truth." No offense, dude, but do you have any idea how that sounds? Believing in every conspiracy theory isn't generally a good idea.
This is Tanaka, reminding you all that we did, in fact, land on the moon. And again, Jews don't mistranscribe the Bible. They're cool like that, meticulous and all.
#29
#30
[/b][/quote]
Jesus disagrees.
[quote]Originally posted by Matthew 5:38-42@
"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.[/quote]
#18
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 04:38 PM
Why didn't God tell Jesus to kill people then? The bible might be wrong on the part that Moses killed people. After all, the bible has been edited many times. That's why there is no Gospel of Matthias, or a Gospel of Peter in the bible. The church doesn't want us to know the truth. And maybe God in the Old Testament seems so vengeful because Jewish priests edited it to fit their liking so people would sacrifice to God and visit the temples on the basis of fear of the Lord.
#19
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 08:38 PM
Uh...I smell heresy.Originally posted by Ganondorf@Sep 17 2004, 04:38 PM
Why didn't God tell Jesus to kill people then? The bible might be wrong on the part that Moses killed people. After all, the bible has been edited many times. That's why there is no Gospel of Matthias, or a Gospel of Peter in the bible. The church doesn't want us to know the truth. And maybe God in the Old Testament seems so vengeful because Jewish priests edited it to fit their liking so people would sacrifice to God and visit the temples on the basis of fear of the Lord.
#20
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 08:41 PM
Let's burn him!!!
Oh, wait, I practice heresy too
.
Oh, wait, I practice heresy too
.
#21
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 08:46 PM
Burning people is heresy too. See Leviticus 18:21.Originally posted by Bulmaro@Sep 17 2004, 08:41 PM
Let's burn him!!!
Oh, wait, I practice heresy too
#22
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 08:49 PM
Originally posted by arunma@Sep 17 2004, 09:38 PM
Uh...I smell heresy.
Which is often times Christian-speak for, "He's got a good point."
#23
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 08:54 PM
OK, anyone want to explain how the Bible has supposedly been edited?
All the "Council of Nicea" arguments could be equally applied to stuff like the Gospel of Thomas, you know.
...but do so in another thread. That way we can get back to Roman Catholics for Death.
All the "Council of Nicea" arguments could be equally applied to stuff like the Gospel of Thomas, you know.
...but do so in another thread. That way we can get back to Roman Catholics for Death.
#24
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 08:58 PM
Well, maybe it's like Zelda, there are many translation mistakes.
#25
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 09:09 PM
What? Are you talking about Japanese to English translations?
#26
Alakhriveion
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 09:16 PM
Oooh!! Granite, 1, God, 0!Originally posted by GraniteJJ@Sep 17 2004, 08:49 PM
Which is often times Christian-speak for, "He's got a good point."
#27
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 09:19 PM
No, I'm talking about Japanese-Englsih, I'm talking about Hebrew-English and Armenian-English. Zelda was just a example of how common the misstranslations are.
#28
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Posted 17 September 2004 - 09:28 PM
Originally posted by Ganondorf@Sep 17 2004, 05:38 PM
Why didn't God tell Jesus to kill people then? The bible might be wrong on the part that Moses killed people. After all, the bible has been edited many times. That's why there is no Gospel of Matthias, or a Gospel of Peter in the bible. The church doesn't want us to know the truth. And maybe God in the Old Testament seems so vengeful because Jewish priests edited it to fit their liking so people would sacrifice to God and visit the temples on the basis of fear of the Lord.
Jesus didn't kill people because that wasn't the right course of action (not too mention unbecoming of a messiah whose main deal was pacifism). And the Bible really hasn't been edited much at all. It's a serious offense in Judaism to mess with scripture, so transcribers were obsessive about getting every word right. As for the Apocrypha, there were many books that did not make it into the Bible because they were deemed, after much deliberation on the part of the Nicean Council, to not be considered divinely inspired, due to either inconcistency or questionable authenticity.
In a thread in the old LA, people were also being conspiracy nuts about the Church, claiming that she's been trying to cover up stupid details for millenia, with (what seems to me) very little proof. "The Church doesn't want us to know the truth." No offense, dude, but do you have any idea how that sounds? Believing in every conspiracy theory isn't generally a good idea.
This is Tanaka, reminding you all that we did, in fact, land on the moon. And again, Jews don't mistranscribe the Bible. They're cool like that, meticulous and all.
#29
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Posted 18 September 2004 - 01:32 PM
Yeah, I still don't get why people love the church conspiracy theory. Maybe they just want to believe it?
#30
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Posted 18 September 2004 - 01:44 PM
Well, I believe that there's a conspiracy behind every buisness establishment, and that religion is just a religion that gets to be tax-exempt. I think it's just because we don't believe the chrch is above the others.
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