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#151 FDL

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 08:22 AM

I still don't understand how the Triforce would just leave them, ALTTP says the Triforce stays with you till death.

#152 Mystic Kitsune

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 08:38 AM

Strange aint it? I think it was just a programming error and nothing else. They dont think people would actually bother looking for that type of stuff.

#153 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 09:28 AM

I still don't understand how the Triforce would just leave them, ALTTP says the Triforce stays with you till death.


I'm sorry but no. That applies to a person who has the whole Triforce to themselves.

#154 Fyxe

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 11:38 AM

Clearly Ganon can take the Triforce pieces from them, if briefly.

But it does seem likely that none of the three had their respective pieces during the final battle. However, if you go by the theory that Ganon never actually broke the seal of the sages and that his true demonic form still lies within the Dark World, then maybe the Triforce merely returned there. Maybe that is why he was laughing so much. With the wish the king made, he actually inadvertantly returned the entire Triforce to Ganon's clutches.

Unfortunately this does somewhat mute the whole dramatic finale and Ganon's death in Wind Waker, so I'm not sure if I buy my own theory in this case.

I'm actually almost tempted to go by a split timeline, *almost*. What with OoT being a prequel to ALttP and TWW. However, I have issues with the Majora's Mask references in TWW.

And apparently OoT is a prequel to Twilight Princess too, at least this seems most likely. Who knows what THAT will do to the timeline.

Actually, how about a 'Gaiden' timeline... Hmm... A split but not a split...

#155 Crazy Penguin

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 11:53 AM

Actually, how about a 'Gaiden' timeline...  Hmm...  A split but not a split...


I've suggested this before, a bit like the old Marvel comic series called "What If?" where Uatu the Watcher would give the readers glimpses into alternate realities where things happened differently.

#156 Fyxe

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 12:03 PM

Or, for a very Japanese (what with Zelda always originally being Japanese and all) example, I believe the hit anime series Evangelion did a special gaiden episode. Or two. Or something rediculous, anyway.

So a timeline would go, ignoring some of the least important games at the moment...

OoT - MM - ALttP - LoZ - AoL

OoT - MM - hey what if Ganon got out and Link wasn't there to stop him and Hyrule got flooded - TWW

Presumably with Twilight Princess occuring after OoT and before TWW. I would predict they would put it in that timeline anyway, because TWW was the last major game in the series.

#157 FDL

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 12:56 PM

I'm sorry but no. That applies to a person who has the whole Triforce to themselves.


I'm sorry but where does it say it only happens when you have the whole Triforce?


Or, for a very Japanese (what with Zelda always originally being Japanese and all) example, I believe the hit anime series Evangelion did a special gaiden episode. Or two. Or something rediculous, anyway.

So a timeline would go, ignoring some of the least important games at the moment...

OoT - MM - ALttP - LoZ - AoL

OoT - MM - hey what if Ganon got out and Link wasn't there to stop him and Hyrule got flooded - TWW

Presumably with Twilight Princess occuring after OoT and before TWW. I would predict they would put it in that timeline anyway, because TWW was the last major game in the series.




That could work.

#158 Crazy Penguin

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 01:40 PM

Or, for a very Japanese (what with Zelda always originally being Japanese and all) example, I believe the hit anime series Evangelion did a special gaiden episode.  Or two.  Or something rediculous, anyway.


There've been about a dozen crappy video games. Although you're probably thinking of End of Evangelion, which was a movie that served as a replacement for the last two episodes of the TV series (which suffered from budget and censorship issues). End of Evangelion was based upon the original scripts for episode 25 and almost entirely new stuff for the episode 26 section.

#159 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 02:58 PM

I'm sorry but where does it say it only happens when you have the whole Triforce?


Here:

...The Triforce will grant the
wishes of whoever touches it,
as long as that person lives...

That is why it was hidden in
the Golden Land. Only a select
few were told of its location,

It's very very obvious this maiden is referring to the whole Triforce. In LTTP the Triforce is whole, so she's not referring to individual pieces. Also, "IT lay hidden in the Golden Land..." not "they" or "the Triforce parts". When the word "Triforce" is used alone it's referring to the united Triforce.

OoT - MM - ALttP - LoZ - AoL

OoT - MM - hey what if Ganon got out and Link wasn't there to stop him and Hyrule got flooded - TWW



Hmmmm a timeline that has TWW, and another one that that does not.

OOT-MM-LTTP would help [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] with TWW and it's related events being out the way. But it still would not eliminate [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of the discrapencies I pointed out with OOT coming before LTTP. Nonetheless, without the TWW in the picture, these discrepencies could be explained without using too much fanfic, so the less fanfic the better.

It'll be kind hard to accept that TWW has nothing to do with the other timeline. How so? Because you're describing a what if or a parallel dimension. A split would be fine however. What's the difference? A split is when an event on one timeline creates a new timeline, that shares the same past but different futures. A what if or parallel is isolated from the other timeline, as in no event on the other timeline caused this timeline to exist. In your what if scenario, nothing happens on that timeline that caused the TWW. Where as on the other line something happened that caused the TWW and it's related events to occur. So a split is perpendicular where as a what if, is parallel.

The what if scenario still wouldn't be a bad idea though.


#160 Hero of Slime

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 03:06 PM

I'm sorry but where does it say it only happens when you have the whole Triforce?

In TWW ganon takes the Triforce peices from Link and Zelda while they are still alive.

#161 Fyxe

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 03:26 PM

Actually, Tri-Enforcer, that quote doesn't say you can't lose the Triforce by some means. It just says that it will grant their wishes while they live. Semantics, I know, but.

The problem with the split timeline is that it usually requires Majora's Mask to be seperate from Wind Waker. The split timeline often also means the future events of OoT don't happen, but of course they do, they're vital to the backstories of TWW and ALttP.

I'm more inclined to believe in the gaiden thing. It's not unheard of, it allows TWW to legitimately be the true end of Hyrule and the true death of Ganon and it allows ALttP to happen without any niggling TWW-based issues. If it wasn't for TWW, the only problems with ALttP's backstory as small issues that can be explained away due to it being a legend and OoT being the events retold correctly (and retold in a way that makes a good game).

#162 Showsni

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 03:43 PM

A gaiden type timeline would solve several problems, but surely it's more fun to try and put everything into a single timeline? After all, we know that there's probably not a "real" timeline, so the only reason we do this is for fun and to test our knowledge. We could put each direct sequel set into a seperate timeline, but where's the fun in that?

#163 Hero of Slime

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 03:47 PM

OoT - MM - ALttP - LoZ - AoL

OoT - MM - hey what if Ganon got out and Link wasn't there to stop him and Hyrule got flooded - TWW

I am open to anything that gets rid of that TWW to ALttP hole.

#164 Fyxe

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 03:51 PM

While you say there's no 'real' timeline, the reason people argue about it in the first place is more than just fun, it's because there *are* references to other games throughout the series. For instance, ALttP explains the backstories of the Triforce and Ganon (and Link and Zelda were even said to be predessesors), so it's logical to put it before LoZ/AoL. Similarly, OoT is a clear reference to the backstory of ALttP, and TWW is, probably most obvious of all, a follow-up to OoT.

I still think it's vaguely possible to fit things into one timeline, but TWW really messed with things a LOT.

In a way though, OoT is a 'gaiden' version of the Imprisoning War, and has seemingly become the true events. Slightly different to TWW being a gaiden, because it's become the real events, while TWW is on it's own timeline.

#165 Hero of Slime

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 05:39 PM

but TWW really messed with things a LOT.

Not so much if you put the IW before ALttP and have the Triforce be whole at the end of TWW. Then the only problem is having Hyrule recover from the flood and still have many geographic features similar to the pre-flood Hyrule.

#166 Fyxe

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 06:08 PM

Unfortunately that's a pretty BIG problem. Hyrule is not going to recover. The only alternate is that Link and Tetra find a new land that's very very similar to the old Hyrule, has an entrance to the Golden Land just like the old Hyrule and also they name it Hyrule. Bit of a stretch, and contrary to the 'new beginning' talked about in TWW's ending.

Also that would mean the Triforce would have to return to the Golden Land, and ALttP also heavily suggests nobody had laid their hands on the Triforce until Ganon opened the way to the Golden Land.

It would also mean that the Master Sword somehow returned from the old Hyrule to the new Hyrule.

Finally, it would also lead to Ganon being sealed by seven sages twice, which is a slight stretch of the imagination. And, of course, two Ganons, which is a little weird.

#167 Hero of Slime

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 06:13 PM

It would also mean that the Master Sword somehow returned from the old Hyrule to the new Hyrule.

Thats only a problem if you are assuming that the new Hyrule is a new land and not the old land restored.

#168 Fyxe

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 06:16 PM

That was the assumption I was making, but it would be somewhat wreck the whole ending of TWW if Hyrule was restored. The king wished it to be washed away forever.

#169 Hero of Slime

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 06:49 PM

The King also said the new Land discovered by Link and Tetra would not be a new Hyrule and they were the only humans alive that had ever seen Hyrule.

#170 Fyxe

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 07:12 PM

Which makes it very very hard to place *anything* after TWW. Both outcomes seem unlikely.

And since a split timeline seems equally unlikely for a few reasons, I'm starting to lean on the 'gaiden' idea. I think Crazy Penguin mentioned it first awhile back, however, so it's really his idea. Went a little unnoticed.

#171 Doopliss

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 08:54 PM

The King also said the new Land discovered by Link and Tetra would not be a new Hyrule and they were the only humans alive that had ever seen Hyrule.

What about the king? It seems like he is a ghost to me, just a hypothesis, though. Anyway, he says that they are the only alive people that had ever seen Hyrule, that means the only people alive at that time, but it doesn't mean that there won't be anyone who sees it again.

#172 Fyxe

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 09:59 PM

There won't be, because it was washed away. Gone for good. Not just sealed anymore, gone.

I'm not sure what exactly the king was, but it's a bit odd that a ghost could wish on the Triforce. I don't think he was a ghost. I think he just remained with his kingdom and therefore, like Ganon, barely aged. The fact that Ganon is not dead could be attributed to the Triforce of Power, but the reason the king had not died was because he was sealed along with the kingdom.

Clearly he had magical powers as well, of course, which is how he manifests himself as the King of Red Lions and how he teleports himself about the place.

Link, Zelda, Valoo and Jabun are the only ones remaining who have seen Hyrule.

#173 Crazy Penguin

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Posted 06 August 2005 - 12:42 PM

Daphnes possessed a nice big chunk of the Triforce of Wisdom, that probably helped him a little.

#174 Nevermind

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 05:20 AM

I'm more leaning towards a single timeline than the gaiden one. I don't think it's possible to have a completely perfect timeline because of the niggling issues between games, as you said, but I'm thinking that is quite possibly on behalf of continuity faults from the writers of the games' stories.

So you CAN have a complete single timeline, however, it will have a few bumps and chinks in it because of the problems with continuity from the developers. If you can get past that fault, then you've got yourself a timeline.

Think Star Wars.

#175 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 10:21 PM

...The Triforce will grant the
wishes of whoever touches it,
as long as that person lives...

That is why it was hidden in
the Golden Land. Only a select
few were told of its location,

Actually, Tri-Enforcer, that quote doesn't say you can't lose the Triforce by some means. It just says that it will grant their wishes while they live. Semantics, I know, but.


Well, I was just addressing what Fierce Deity Link had to say about Triforce parts serving a person for the rest of their lives. He paraphrased the above quote, from LTTP, to say that individual parts stay with a person until they die. I was rebutting him about this. Actually, the person who controls the whole Triforce is the one who will have it until they die, not those who have individual parts. The above quote is obviously referring to the whole Triforce, not parts of it. If you only have a portion of the Triforce, then it could be taken or stolen from you before you die.

There's no looking around it. If you have a servant, when you die, the servant will either grant services for other people or serve no one. So the servant no longer belongs or is employed to you. True, the above quote doesn't say if individual parts can be stolen (let along any other quote), but then again what quote says individual Triforce parts can not be stolen or taken before death?

All we got is the above quote, and all that I got from that quote is what pertains to a person who has the whole Triforce--not for those who only have a certain part of it. Nothing more...nothing less. Then, looking at the TWW's during the final battle, we see the parts being stripped frm the respective holders' bodies. This tells me individual parts can be taken before death, whereas the whole Triforce can only be taken when the bearer no longer lives.




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