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More clues to the new game's placement


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#61 Tekky

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 03:35 PM

Heh, does anyone remember one of Davos old articles entitled "Zelda: Myth or Legend" or something along those lines? I find that quite a interesting article now (although majorly out of date), considering the mess the storyline is in...

#62 martinDTanderson

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 06:11 PM

The quote is pretty straight forward, though if you really that sceptical, you may find someone willing to check the translation was acurate. Having said that, I can't think why it wouldn't be in this case. It's not so hard to believe that Nintendo want to remain consistant... then again, maybe it is :P

Mohammed Ali

Think about it, why would there be any ambiguity or uncertainty to placement of games if they were going by this written timeline or guide. Ideas which couldnt be achieved in HF were then used in ALttP, and stuff in ALttP which wasnt used, was used in OoT.

A research, ideas document makes the most sense to me, not a defined order and placement for games, it would mean they have a story written beginning to end, and that doesnt fit with their ideals in making games. (you never end a story, always leave the chance of a sequal.

#63 mohammedali

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 06:22 PM

Think about it, why would there be any ambiguity or uncertainty to placement of games if they were going by this written timeline or guide.  Ideas which couldnt be achieved in HF were then used in ALttP, and stuff in ALttP which wasnt used, was used in OoT.
 
A research, ideas document makes the most sense to me, not a defined order and placement for games, it would mean they have a story written beginning to end, and that doesnt fit with their ideals in making games. (you never end a story, always leave the chance of a sequal.

Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, that's kinda what I meant. The way I see it is that they have a document of everything that has happened thus far. They then come up with what ever crazy story that comes in their head (let me think, something really strange, like a giant flood destroying Hyrule for example :P) and then check where it would fit in the existing timeline without any contradictions. I didn't mean they have the timeline already completed and predefined. Not at all. But I do think this document links all the existing games together (just as the quote says). I imagine they also have a seperate document which lists various ideas that could fit into the existing timeline, should anyone choose to make another game. Hope that clears up what I meant.

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#64 Wolf O'Donnell

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 08:12 AM

This big document, I believe is just all the ideas and planning which goes into development of the games and backstories. I dont think there is a timeline planned out being told from game to game. It would be interesting to see the word for word japanese quote rather than an interpretation.


Very true. I'm currently writing a story and had a timeline set out to ensure that nothing would contradict, but it inevitably became far too restrictive so I destroyed the timeline document.

I think it would be too creatively restrictive if they have everything planned out, but not only that, but I think it would be terribly restrictive for them if the timeline document never encountered any big changes and if the order of the games didn't change every now and then.

Obviously, they'd try not to do that but if things come to the worst then they'd have to.

Also, Fyxe, you cannot fit this new game after WW perfectly without making up fanfiction, as the Triforce of Courage is no longer with Link and therefore cannot be on any of his descendents.

Unless the Triforce mark on this new Link's hand is a tattoo or something occurred between WW and this Gamecube game to give the ToC back to the Link "family", you cannot fit it directly after WW.

#65 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 08:38 AM

@Wolf

The hero doesn't always have to be in possession of the of the Triforce of Courage in order to have the mark. This has been discussed so many times. You must forget that Link had the mark when he became of age back in AoL. He got the mark before he even came close to having the ToC. Thus Zelda 05 Link having the mark does not disqualify this game as coming after TWW. I'm not saying it does come after TWW, but the mark cant be used to justify this game is not after TWW.

#66 Guest_LegendaryFrog_*

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 07:42 AM

If you ask me, all clues point to this taken place after Wind Waker, in the Hyrule thats under the Great Sea.

(trailer spoilers ahead)

Most oviousis that this world looks like the OoT Hyrule, and Link looks and sounds similar to OoT Link. When Link left Hyrule in the WW intro, he culd have went to the village he (or his son?) is in in Twlight Princess. The triforce leaves him, Hyrule is flooded.

Fast Forward to WW. WW unfreezes Hyrule, but leaves in a state of disarray. The "Twilight Relam." Some evil force, possible Ganon's minions, use the Tower of the God as a gateway to Hyrule. (The creatures and portal in the trailer remind me of the patterns in the Tower of the Gods very much.) If true, they might be there to free Ganondorf from his stone prision.

#67 Wolf O'Donnell

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 08:33 AM

@Wolf

The hero doesn't always have to be in possession of the of the Triforce of Courage in order to have the mark. This has been discussed so many times. You must forget that Link had the mark when he became of age back in AoL. He got the mark before he even came close to having the ToC. Thus Zelda 05 Link having the mark does not disqualify this game as coming after TWW. I'm not saying it does come after TWW, but the mark cant be used to justify this game is not after TWW.


Which merely goes to show that the Triforce is nothing more than a Deus Ex Machina and should not be used to help decide which games go where.

#68 FDL

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 09:40 AM

This game is a few decades after OoT and Link is a new Link. This is said in the new Jeux-Zelda video clips by Anouma. Also, the description of the new Forest Temple says the Forest Temple was once a Sacred Place in one of Hyrules many forests. Awesome, huh?

#69 Zythe

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 09:44 AM

It would fit well with OoX, what with the horses, but it would also suit a post-OoT pre-flood world.

#70 Fyxe

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 09:55 AM

Which merely goes to show that the Triforce is nothing more than a Deus Ex Machina and should not be used to help decide which games go where.


Whoa. Where are you getting that? We were just talking about the Triforce mark on Link's hand, which, as shown in the Oracle games and AoL, doesn't necessarily mean Link HAS the Triforce at all.

The Triforce is vital in explaining where some of the games go. For example, the placement of the Triforce at the end of OoT is vital for the plot of Wind Waker. The collection of the Triforce of Wisdom and the Triforce of Power but the lack of Triforce of Courage at the end of TLoZ is vital for AoL.

The fact that the Triforce is complete and in Hyrule Castle in the Oracle games shows neither Ganon, Zelda or Link have it or even a part of it, and shows it must take place after the entire Triforce was removed from the Sacred Realm (ALttP?).

The fact that Ganon has the whole Triforce in ALttP means he must of recovered the Triforce of Wisdom and Courage since OoT.

I think people put too much emphasis on the damn bloody horses. THEY'RE JUST HORSES. Epona is just a horse like any other. What difference does it make? He rides a horse at the start of the Oracle games. So what? It's a horse. You can apparently name your horse in this game. So what? You can name Link in every game, for heck's sake.

#71 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 10:01 AM

(Zythe) It would fit well with OoX, what with the horses, but it would also suit a post-OoT pre-flood world.



Hyrule, just before the flood? Perhaps this game will have a sad ending with this game's Link becoming a fallen hero who does not become a legend and will not be remembered like the Hero of Time. Which would help explain why only the Hero of Time is mentioned in TWW backstory and not Twilight's Link. (I actually don't support this concept, but it helps to throw things out...so I actually wouldn't mind if someone discredits this)

#72 mohammedali

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 11:11 AM

This game is a few decades after OoT and Link is a new Link. This is said in the new Jeux-Zelda video clips by Anouma. Also, the description of the new Forest Temple says the Forest Temple was once a Sacred Place in one of Hyrules many forests. Awesome, huh?

Woah, are you definate? That's pretty cool. Has anyone got the quotes?

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#73 Zythe

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 11:30 AM

Woah, are you definate? That's pretty cool. Has anyone got the quotes?

Mohammed Ali


Yep, he's definite. Also, there's a new ogre bad guy, some shadow (VAATI PLEASE!) possesses Link and Kaebora Gaebora seems to be Link's pet... more to come.

EDIT: Is it possible that this is TWW's backstory and not OoT?

#74 thabto81

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 11:39 AM

This was taken from TSA's site. I hope he doesn't mind if I post it here:

"Additionally, according to the Japanese guy in the Jeux-France video, it is 100% sure the game takes place "several tens of years after Ocarina of Time in The Wind Waker timeline". Thanks to Zethar for verifying it for us. So what does this mean? If you're brushed up on your Zelda history, there is only one obvious way to go. Spoilers only if you haven't played The Wind Waker and know it well.

Link has to die in this game. He has to fade out of memory because in The Wind Waker, there is no memory of anyone but The Hero of Time. Hyrule also has to be flooded during this game. We saw Fado is in this game as a villager, and there is the Forest Temple with the Kokiri Symbols. Perhaps Fado will become the Kokiri Sage and pray to the Master Sword? Either way, this game has to end with the King of Hyrule praying to the gods and having Hyrule sealed. This would also mean The Wind Waker COULD be in this game, since in the game TWW, it is said the King used the Wind Waker to conduct the sages. Also, notice Hyrule is BLACK AND WHITE in The Wind Waker? Oh boy, Hyrule is black and white in this new game when you are in Twilight Hyrule. Maybe the Master Sword is used a seal at the end of this game. This would also explain how the Master Sword gets to HYRULE CASTLE in the spot it does. In the end, this also means Zelda must become a pirate and protect the Triforce of Wisdom and pass it down through her royal blood. This could also have something to do with the mark on LINK'S HAND, something about the Triforce of Courage perhaps and why it really split?"

Can anyone verify this?

#75 Zythe

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 11:48 AM

This is everything I wanted. In your face, Mike Peters.

#76 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 12:11 PM

You may be right about the Wind Waker making an appearance in this game. The creators mentioned before they still wanted to incorporate some of the wind elements of TWW into this game, so it might make a brief cameo. From all that I'm gathering it appears this will most likely be the story of the Great Flood--so the games placement in itself is a spoiler.

It also seems this Link won't make it or prevent the flood. At first I thought this may contradict the prophecy of the great cataclysm mentioned in LTTP: whenever a great evil arrives a hero will rise and prevail. Hyrule gets flooded and the hero couldn't prevent the forced decision the king will have to make. But then I thought maybe the this Hero doesn't fail. Hyrule has to be flooded in order for there to be new hope, otherwise Ganon would conquer it and all would really be lost. So maybe this Hero does something that allows the Gods to do their work and flood Hyrule. With world domination out of Ganon's hands, this gives new hope for a new hero to arise when Ganon strikes again: the Hero of Winds.

#77 Showsni

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 12:11 PM

The problem with direct prequels is we know how it's going to end. If this is just before the flood, we know what will happen.
Unless there's a split in the timeline - perhaps Link dying results in TWW, and him not dying results in something else...

#78 Zythe

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 12:14 PM

Could he be fighting to get Hyrule flooded, which sacrifices him in the process? It's more likely he's TWW's statue hero because no one could possibly remember OoT adult Link (seeing as he ceased to exist).

#79 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 12:29 PM

How would they have enough time to create a statue of this Link when the world is about to be flooded? That statue we see in TWW is probably already built by the time of Twilight Princess. I think the statue really does depict the Hero of Time.

#80 Zythe

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 12:30 PM

How would they know the Hero of Time even exists? And Hyrule castle never gets flooded.

#81 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 12:34 PM

I would imagine this Link will die in the hands of Ganon or in the flood, thus giving no time to create a statue of him. How could someone make a statue of him when everyone dies in the flood? I think the statue maybe seen in Twilight Princess

#82 Zythe

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 12:45 PM

OK, maybe OoT Zelda had it built. But I'd like the possibility that Nohansen builds it for TP Link.

#83 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 12:52 PM

Here's what I think, by the time TP Link meets the King, he's gonna think TP Link is the Hero of Time or at least related to him, just like he thought the same of TWW Link. Also, keep in mind this happens decades after OOT, so when OOT Link went back in time, he had time to grow up be a hero of the land and might've had other quests (other than MM of course). By the time TP Link comes around, the Hero of Time is a legend and behold--his statue is stands gallantly in Hyrule Castle. I think we might see the statue sometime during TP---I can just put my finger on it.

#84 Crazy Penguin

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 01:14 PM

This game is a few decades after OoT and Link is a new Link. This is said in the new Jeux-Zelda video clips by Anouma. Also, the description of the new Forest Temple says the Forest Temple was once a Sacred Place in one of Hyrules many forests. Awesome, huh?


Could you provide links and the exact quotes please?

#85 Zythe

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 01:28 PM

No quotes, just speech. Check Toan's thread in Zelda G.

#86 thabto81

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 01:42 PM

I would imagine this Link will die in the hands of Ganon or in the flood, thus giving no time to create a statue of him. How could someone make a statue of him when everyone dies in the flood? I think the statue maybe seen in Twilight Princess

Perhaps Link doesn't die but is turned into the statue? >.>

#87 Zythe

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 01:44 PM

^ And is never remembered again, because of his likeness to OoT Link? I'm liking the poetic justice, if that was Ganon's hand to Link. Heh. Maybe this will explain Ganon's death by petrification.

#88 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 01:44 PM

Perhaps Link doesn't die but is turned into the statue? >.>


no because that statue breaks in TWW when Link enters the chamber for the Master Sword--also that's a giant sized statue--no where near human size

#89 thabto81

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 01:45 PM

it was a joke dude XP

#90 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 02:11 PM

* the cloaked girl is Zelda
* the strange creature riding Wolf Link is Midna--she's a RESIDENT of the Twilight Realm and is also on a mission
* also confirms this game is in between OOT and TWW--completely different Link however
* much more:

http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/action/th...ew_6125176.html




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