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Storyline Article: Defense of the Split Timeline theory


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#211 Chaltab

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Posted 10 November 2006 - 11:43 PM

Link's not a fairy. At all. He's Hylian in some games, human in others, but he's never been called a fairy by anyone in the know. And yes, Tingle is insane.

#212 coinilius

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 12:43 AM

I've never even considered that Tingle could be mistaking Link for a Kokiri. I mean, how would a Terminan know of Kokiri, who are exclusive to Hyrule? I think Tingle mistakes Link for exactly what he calls him: a forest fairy, an undeterminable term that was bred in his own weird mind. After all, later games have confirmed that Tingle wishes to become a fairy - one like those that can be bottled, we should presume.

But the dialouge clearly describes Link as being what Tingle thinks a 'forest fairy' is, and his description of a forest fairy fits with the description of the Kokiri - Green clothes, white fairy that follows them around and not ageing. Later games have indeed confused the issue, but that's because they have moved beyond what was originally stated in MM, either through convience (no Kokiri or fairy companions) or design. It's possible that a Terminian might know what a Kokiri is - whose to say that they don't have legends at least of 'forest fairies' that resemble the Kokiri of Hyrule? Tingle does establish a 'forest fairy' as resembling Link and, bu extension (youth, green clothes, fairy companion) a Kokiri. And Tingle IS addressing Link as being a forest fairy, and attributing Kokiri features to forest fairies, even if they are just a product of his imagination (in Termina).


Link is not actually a fairy, no.

"Fairy folk shall not leave these woods."

Ring any bells?


Ahh yes, I did forget that one - so yes, the specific term is used. But in any case, my point before was that similar enough terminology was used anyway, so it's the same in the end.

#213 Chaltab

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 11:23 AM

Fairy folk doesn't mean "folks who are fairies" it means "folk who HAVE fairies"... in all likelyhood.

#214 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 01:09 PM

Koroks are still considered fairy folk and they have no fairy companions

#215 Raien

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 01:16 PM

Koroks are still considered fairy folk and they have no fairy companions


Where does it say this in TWW?

#216 Showsni

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 04:36 PM

Fairy folk doesn't mean "folks who are fairies" it means "folk who HAVE fairies"... in all likelyhood.


Not in English. It says fairy folk; that's what it means. Fairy folk.

Link's not a fairy. At all. He's Hylian in some games, human in others, but he's never been called a fairy by anyone in the know. And yes, Tingle is insane.

No, we know he isn't, but they think he is a Kokiri/forest fairy.

I've never even considered that Tingle could be mistaking Link for a Kokiri. I mean, how would a Terminan know of Kokiri, who are exclusive to Hyrule? I think Tingle mistakes Link for exactly what he calls him: a forest fairy, an undeterminable term that was bred in his own weird mind. After all, later games have confirmed that Tingle wishes to become a fairy - one like those that can be bottled, we should presume.

Termina presumably has Kokiri analogues. Fairy is also short for forest fairy - Tingle always wants to be a Kokiri, not a bottled fairy. That would be ridiculous. Look at TWW - he dresses in green, and says he thinks he is a fairy. Clearly he is talking about the forest variety, else he would dress in a white dress and carry a wand. Presuming he thinks he is a fairy (of the bottleable type) is ridiculous. He's not insane - he's more like a child who hasn't grown up, playing at being one of the forest children in the stories. Maybe he even saw one when he was younger, living in the Swamp.

Think about Anju for a second: she's called the chicken girl, but does that make her a chicken herself?! Or, is a dog biscuit made of dog?!
The logic behind those nicknames is that the respective persons are *surrounded* by fairies or chickens, not that they themselves *are* them.

Don't be silly. If I called you a human boy, would that imply that no, of course you're not a human yourself - you're just surrounded by them? The word "fairy" has many meanings beyond small, fluttery winged things. It is obvious that they're referring to Link as a fairy child, which they believe he is. The Kokiri clearly are fairy, even if the game didn't state it. Spirits of the forest that never age? Clearly they are fairy.

I wonder if they pay a tithe to hell every seven years...

#217 LionHarted

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 03:23 PM

The Kokiri clearly are fairy, even if the game didn't state it. Spirits of the forest that never age? Clearly they are fairy.

Actually, they're clearly drawn from Peter Pan's Lost Boys--children who never grow up due to fairy magic.

#218 Ogmios22188

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 08:38 PM

fair‧y  /ˈfɛəri/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fair-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural fair‧ies, adjective

–noun 1. (in folklore) one of a class of supernatural beings, generally conceived as having a diminutive human form and possessing magical powers with which they intervene in human affairs.
2. Slang (disparaging and offensive). a male homosexual.
–adjective 3. of or pertaining to fairies: fairy magic.
4. of the nature of a fairy; fairylike.
5. fairy green.

So, according to this, fairy folk don't necessarily have to be fairies, if you take the fairy in the term to be an adjective, and not a noun.

#219 Chaltab

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 09:37 PM

Fairies in the Zelda games are ethreal--the Kokiri are corporeal. They're not people who are fairies--just those that have faries.

Think about it--if they are fairies why do they need other fairies to fly around their heads?

#220 Showsni

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 10:24 PM

Those are a different kind of fairies. You wouldn't say Titania's a flower fairy, would you? Of course not.

#221 Arturo

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 11:21 AM

Fairies in the Zelda games are ethreal--the Kokiri are corporeal. They're not people who are fairies--just those that have faries.

Think about it--if they are fairies why do they need other fairies to fly around their heads?


Kokiris are not corporal. They appear and disappear, as seen in OoT. Last time I checked, I couldn't become invisible when Link was far enough from me. And don't say this is a bug or somethinkg because we still see the fairies, and that doesn't happenin Kakariko Village for example

#222 CID Farwin

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 07:18 PM

*Laughs at ludicracy for about 3 hours then sighs in desperation*

Yea, why not. In the end all creatures of the forest (Deku Scrubs, Deku Babas, Kokiri, Skull Kids) might be relatives, since they might all stem from the father of all living, the Great Deku Tree. He represents the power of Farore who created life in Hyrule. ..I'm not completely serious now, but I think I may have a little point.

not completely serious, but the best little point i've seen yet. "fairy folk" could very well mean "Forest folk." I am pulling this out of thin air like everybody else, but I at least have common sence on my side. at least I think I do.

Actually, they're clearly drawn from Peter Pan's Lost Boys--children who never grow up due to fairy magic.


Just what I was thinking. Which would actually mean that tingle isn't insane; he just has "the Kokiri syndrome" as opposed to "the peter pan syndrome." :P
Seriously, if you want to know what tingle believes or doesn't, than play his new RPG. I, for one will avoid it like the plague.

Don't be silly. If I called you a human boy, would that imply that no, of course you're not a human yourself - you're just surrounded by them? The word "fairy" has many meanings beyond small, fluttery winged things. It is obvious that they're referring to Link as a fairy child, which they believe he is. The Kokiri clearly are fairy, even if the game didn't state it. Spirits of the forest that never age? Clearly they are fairy.

He's clearly ranting, leave it alone.

#223 Ogmios22188

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 09:19 PM

I at least provided a definition of fairy, which can help in determining what "fairy folk" actually means.

#224 Chaltab

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 01:29 AM

Kokiris are not corporal. They appear and disappear, as seen in OoT. Last time I checked, I couldn't become invisible when Link was far enough from me. And don't say this is a bug or somethinkg because we still see the fairies, and that doesn't happenin Kakariko Village for example


The ability to turn invisible doesn't make their bodies any less solid.

#225 SOAP

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 03:54 AM

Aren't their bodies an illusion? I thought the Koroks were their real forms and they took the form of Hylain Children as the Kokiri.

#226 LionHarted

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 08:17 AM

Kokiris are not corporal. They appear and disappear, as seen in OoT. Last time I checked, I couldn't become invisible when Link was far enough from me.

This happens with all characters in OoT.

And actually, they're not called "fairy folk"--they're called "forest folk."

Edited by LionHarted, 14 November 2006 - 08:20 AM.


#227 Arturo

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 09:44 AM

That doesn't happen to the same extent with the rest of them. Of course they disappear, but when you are much further.

And I agree with SOAP in that

#228 Raien

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 10:26 AM

Before you come to an instant conclusion, let me say this.

In Kokiri forest, walk away from a Kokiri just beyond the point where he/she turns invisible. Now turn around and go into first-person view. If the Kokiri appears, this shows it to be a graphical issue, not a plotline issue. For some reason, OoT will not show character sprites from a certain distance.

You can do the same thing with the running man at night time. I think you'll find he will also disappear at a certain distance.

Edited by jhurvid, 14 November 2006 - 10:27 AM.


#229 Fyxe

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 10:51 AM

It's quite simple, it's to avoid slowdown. If you could see all the Kokiris at once, which you could if they didn't fade away from sight and stood in the right place, the game would run too slowly.

#230 Hero of Legend

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 10:52 AM

Normal people appear/disappear in one instant - This is a classic example of pop-ups.

The Kokiri slowly fade in/out - Their disappearance is intentional, no different from the Zora diving underwater.

And actually, they're not called "fairy folk"--they're called "forest folk."

But they ARE forest spirits. Other people just call them fairies because they don’t know their true nature. End of discussion.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 14 November 2006 - 10:55 AM.


#231 LionHarted

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 11:04 AM

That doesn't happen to the same extent with the rest of them. Of course they disappear, but when you are much further.

You also have to consider that those small glowing "forest sprites" floating around Kokiri Forest would interfere with load times, so taking measures to ensure that fewer objects appear on-screen in Kokiri Forest is more likely a gameplay/design function than a storyline function.

#232 Chaltab

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 04:15 PM

Normal people appear/disappear in one instant - This is a classic example of pop-ups.

The Kokiri slowly fade in/out - Their disappearance is intentional, no different from the Zora diving underwater.


Intentional, yes, but the intent behind it was to avoid slowdown. The fact that they fade in and out was probably a touch Nintendo added to make it look less egregious than say the blatant pop-ups of Crusin' World or suffocating fog of Star Wars: Rogue Sqadron.

#233 Jumbie

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 04:22 PM

Aren't their bodies an illusion? I thought the Koroks were their real forms and they took the form of Hylain Children as the Kokiri.

I agree. How could I not? ;)

Normal people appear/disappear in one instant - This is a classic example of pop-ups.

The Kokiri slowly fade in/out - Their disappearance is intentional, no different from the Zora diving underwater.

That's exactly the point. The Kokiri were designed to disappear from a very short distance already, much shorter than with any other characters in OoT.
In TWW, the Koroks are able to turn invisible as well, since they must have fled unseen up to the Deku Tree's face when Link entered their forest.

Even if it was primarily done to avoid slowdown, remember the way Miyamoto and Co. usually work - they think about the practical things first, and then turn them into plot points. Example: Midna was originally developed just to have something interesting to look at on Wolf Link's back so he didn't look boring to the player. Soon, however, she was turned into a major plot point.

Edited by Jumbie, 14 November 2006 - 04:27 PM.


#234 Chaltab

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 04:26 PM

If they're fairies or otherwise incoporeal, why do they need weapons like the Kokiri Sword?

#235 Hero of Legend

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 04:36 PM

Intentional, yes, but the intent behind it was to avoid slowdown. The fact that they fade in and out was probably a touch Nintendo added to make it look less egregious than say the blatant pop-ups of Crusin' World or suffocating fog of Star Wars: Rogue Sqadron.

Nope. Saria intentionally uses that ability to hide from Link when he is leaving the forest, proving it is very much a canon part of the story. Sorry, but your theory just doesn't abide by the facts.

If they're fairies or otherwise incoporeal, why do they need weapons like the Kokiri Sword?

The same reason Link needed a sword. They are not immortal.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 14 November 2006 - 04:40 PM.


#236 LionHarted

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 04:49 PM

Nope. Saria intentionally uses that ability to hide from Link when he is leaving the forest, proving it is very much a canon part of the story. Sorry, but your theory just doesn't abide by the facts.

Or they just didn't want for Link to run right past her, and there was nowhere for her to hide.

Again, graphical limitations.



Should I say that landmarks in the desert intentionally fade in and out because Link experiences mirages? No.

Edited by LionHarted, 14 November 2006 - 04:50 PM.


#237 Hero of Legend

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 04:54 PM

Or they just didn't want for Link to run right past her, and there was nowhere for her to hide.

If that was the case they could have just made her run out of the doorway behind him. Or better yet, not make him run past her at all.

Again, graphical limitations.

No, idiotic bullshit.

Should I say that landmarks in the desert intentionally fade in and out because Link experiences mirages? No.

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

Edited by Hero of Legend, 14 November 2006 - 04:58 PM.


#238 Chaltab

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 05:40 PM

Once again, I'm not saying the Kokiri can't turn invisible--I'm saying they were granted the ability for graphics reasons, and it was subsequently used as a story-telling tool. And invisibility is not a sign of not being incoporeal. Lots of very solid objects in Zelda can be invisible, and not just living things. Remember all those platforms you can only see with the Lens of Truth?

#239 LionHarted

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 09:23 AM

I've never once seen the Kokiri ability to turn invisible used as a "storytelling tool".

Edited by LionHarted, 15 November 2006 - 09:23 AM.


#240 Arturo

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 09:57 AM

Yes, in the animation where Link goes out of the Forest. He crosses the bridge, and suddenly Saria appears behind him




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