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Proof as to why FSA cannot follow after ALttP


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#31 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 11:29 AM

But with the changes that occur between OOT and LTTP, there's no way two centuries would suffice.

#32 HeroOfTime5

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 02:27 PM

ZeldaGamer21, where did you get that info from?
OoT was confirmed to be the prequal to aLttP, just like WW was. Though I agree that there is no way of knowing how many centuries between them.

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There is no way in my opinion that ALttP can take place before TWW, because of the overwhelming amount of evidence. So that concludes that ALttP is many, many centuries after OoT.

#33 LionHarted

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 02:51 PM

But didn't already OoT depict the sealing of Ganon?! ..Of course it did, that's being sarcastic ;)

And TWW depicted his being released.

..For the first time after his reincarnation, that is. Ganon had had the Trident from the start in OoT: Phantom Ganon bore it, and Pig Ganon wielded two swords that could easily be a transfiguration of the Trident.

There is no "Trident" in OoT. What Phantom Ganon uses is not a Trident. What Ganon uses in OoT are not Tridents.

And where is Blind in FSA? Shouldn't he have entered the Dark World once his band vacated, as hinted in ALttP?

Irrelevant. The evidence is concerning the thieves, not Blind. The fact that Blind is not featured explicitly means absolutely nothing.

Well no, but can you explain things like how the Dark Tribe was sealed in the Dark Mirror? Probably not, nobody can (yet), but what harm does this to the overall timeline?!

Probably also sent to the Dark World, THROUGH the Dark Mirror (just like Link gets "sucked into" the Magic Mirror, and appears in the Light World).

Maybe, just maybe, because only some centuries after ALttP the power of the Four Sword began to fade?

There is no evidence of any sword's power fading without the intervention of an evil force. Vaati sucks up the Four Sword's power, and Ganon the Master Sword's.

Whenever Zelda first appointed them! Strictly this could've been even after FS GBA, though that's only a rash guess.

Maybe they protected the Shrine instead of the temples, since Ganon was now dead and there was no further need to seal away the evil there.

You won't find one (I suppose). And it's not that I would look for one. To me, FSA's placement after ALttP simply works, whereas a placement before ALttP would be much too retcon-y for my taste.

But FSA's placement after ALttP doesn't explain the things that definitely lead into it (extermination of the Knights, vacating of Kakariko by the thieves, creation of the Lost Woods). All of these things have already happened in ALttP, and all of these things happen in FSA.

#34 Jumbie

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 05:49 PM

What the? ALttP happens a couple of centuries after OoT? Yeah right! Considering that the first part of the timeline has been confirmed (OoT - MM - TP - TWW - PH) by Nintendo themselves, and TWW is hundreds of years after OoT, I don't see how it's possible for ALttP to happen that soon after OoT. If you want to disagree, fine, but you'd just be arguing against evidence given by the guys who make Zelda, so you'll never win.

My timeline is not based on thin air, you know. If you take a look at my sig, you'll notice that I do acknowledge the order OoT>TP>TWW>PH (while there's never been any confirmation of MM before TWW).

There is no way in my opinion that ALttP can take place before TWW

Who ever talked about ALttP being before or after TWW?! Both games happen at nearly the *same time*. That's why they both refer to OoT as happening directly before them, and that's also why the backstory of TWW is almost identical to the in-game plot of ALttP. Really, Single Timeliners can be so shallow at times..!

And TWW depicted his being released.

In either of the two timelines, Ganon is sealed in the Dark World only once (not twice), and he breaks free from there only once (not twice).

There is no "Trident" in OoT. What Phantom Ganon uses is not a Trident.

Posted Image
..Not a Trident, you say? Following your logic, the thing he rides on would have to be a cow. <_<

Irrelevant. The evidence is concerning the thieves, not Blind.

That's nice. And to me it's totally irrelevant if 10 would-be thieves (among which are a middle-aged man, a little girl and a housewife) run off to the woods. They really have nothing in common with ALttP's thieves. They are ridiculously few in number, and it seems they only turned up after Vaati/Ganon was freed. Unless FSA had shown Blind as their leader, there's no way I'm gonna believe FSA's thieves to be ALttP's ancestors.

Probably also sent to the Dark World, THROUGH the Dark Mirror (just like Link gets "sucked into" the Magic Mirror, and appears in the Light World).

Cool, that's the same explanation I would've given.

There is no evidence of any sword's power fading without the intervention of an evil force. Vaati sucks up the Four Sword's power, and Ganon the Master Sword's.

What.. the...?!

Maybe they protected the Shrine instead of the temples, since Ganon was now dead and there was no further need to seal away the evil there.

Sorry, I don't get the context.

But FSA's placement after ALttP doesn't explain the things that definitely lead into it (extermination of the Knights, vacating of Kakariko by the thieves, creation of the Lost Woods). All of these things have already happened in ALttP, and all of these things happen in FSA.

ALttP's Lost Woods weren't created in FSA. They've probably been there since Farore created them. Consider that FSA's woods are made of DarkWorld-type trees and full of beasts, whereas ALttP's Lost Woods are a peaceful though foggy forest. Yes, the fog leaves after Link draws the Master Sword, but not so the (mostly natural and harmless) animals you find there.
The two Woods may be at the same location, but one game doesn't explain their existence in the other. I think after FSA the Dark Forest will return to be the Forest of Light.
As for your other points, I don't think they require explanation. Some thieves haunting Kakariko can definitely happen twice, the same goes for the defeat of the Knights of Hyrule. Both scenarios aren't such groundbreakingly historic events that they couldn't repeat themselves.

Edited by Jumbie, 26 August 2006 - 05:50 PM.


#35 LionHarted

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 06:48 PM

My timeline is not based on thin air, you know. If you take a look at my sig, you'll notice that I do acknowledge the order OoT>TP>TWW>PH (while there's never been any confirmation of MM before TWW).

Yes there has.

MM comes after Link goes back in time (and therefore before Adult OoT), and TWW comes after Adult OoT (and therefore after MM). That's good enough confirmation for me.

Who ever talked about ALttP being before or after TWW?! Both games happen at nearly the *same time*.

Proof?

That's why they both refer to OoT as happening directly before them, and that's also why the backstory of TWW is almost identical to the in-game plot of ALttP. Really, Single Timeliners can be so shallow at times..!

The in-game plot of ALttP has Ganon getting stuck in the Dark World for some unexplained reason, not sealed. He seems still to be stuck after the seal is broken.

In either of the two timelines, Ganon is sealed in the Dark World only once (not twice), and he breaks free from there only once (not twice).

Prove the double-timeline first.

Posted Image
..Not a Trident, you say? Following your logic, the thing he rides on would have to be a cow. <_<

Not the Trident. I apologize.

That's nice. And to me it's totally irrelevant if 10 would-be thieves (among which are a middle-aged man, a little girl and a housewife) run off to the woods. They really have nothing in common with ALttP's thieves. They are ridiculously few in number, and it seems they only turned up after Vaati/Ganon was freed.

That actually corresponds wonderfully to ALttP, since the leader of the thieves apparently is one of Ganon's henchmen.

Unless FSA had shown Blind as their leader, there's no way I'm gonna believe FSA's thieves to be ALttP's ancestors.

Unless OoT shows evidence of a timeline split, I have no reason to believe that, either.

Cool, that's the same explanation I would've given.

Good. It was my concept for FSA leading into ALttP.

What.. the...?!

Oh, please.

And yet...unfortunately, due to Ganondorf's evil designs, the Master Sword you hold has lost this power.

However, Vaati's magic has robbed the Four Sword of its power to vanquish darkness.

Sorry, I don't get the context.

The Sages protect Hyrule against Ganon in OoT-TWW. In FSA the Maidens protect Hyrule against Vaati, since Ganon is no longer there. When Ganon appears, they help seal him away. And again, in ALttP, Vaati is out of the picture, and they guard against Ganon.

ALttP's Lost Woods weren't created in FSA. They've probably been there since Farore created them. Consider that FSA's woods are made of DarkWorld-type trees and full of beasts, whereas ALttP's Lost Woods are a peaceful though foggy forest.

Consider that FSA's woods are actually called the Dark World on the overworld map.

The two Woods may be at the same location, but one game doesn't explain their existence in the other. I think after FSA the Dark Forest will return to be the Forest of Light.

You haven't seen the credits, have you?

As for your other points, I don't think they require explanation. Some thieves haunting Kakariko can definitely happen twice, the same goes for the defeat of the Knights of Hyrule. Both scenarios aren't such groundbreakingly historic events that they couldn't repeat themselves.

The thieves vacate Kakariko before ALttP and in FSA. You can't explain them vacating twice because you'd have to invent an unseen event to do so, and ignore the event that we actually do see.

By the same token, I could say the same for the SW. Ganon being sealed can and does happen twice (OoT and FSA).

Edited by LionHarted, 26 August 2006 - 06:49 PM.


#36 Jumbie

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 07:32 PM

The in-game plot of ALttP has Ganon getting stuck in the Dark World for some unexplained reason, not sealed. He seems still to be stuck after the seal is broken.

You can't go by the in-game plot alone. The manual story, which has Ganon being sealed by the Seven Sages (not Maidens), is there for a reason. How else would we have learned of the three Goddesses creating the world? That isn't even scratched upon in-game, and yet it is fully canonic as OoT showed.
Anyway, TWW's backstory and ALttP's plot only differ in the fact that in the first Ganon broke free whereas in the latter he was prevented from escaping and killed by the destined Hero. Everything else matches up too perfectly for them not to be alternate histories of each other.

Not the Trident. I apologize.

What makes you so sure it's not the same? We know for certain that FSA's Trident once belonged to the King of Darkness before it was enshrined in the Pyramid, and seeing as there is only one King of Darkness in the Zelda series..

That actually corresponds wonderfully to ALttP, since the leader of the thieves apparently is one of Ganon's henchmen.

But understand, the thieves in FSA have no leader at all!! They're just 10 small fries, no Blind, no hideout, no nothing. ...That's totally contradicting what ALttP says about their past! (to put it in bold words ;) )

Good. It was my concept for FSA leading into ALttP.

And to me it's but one of many possible explanations for the Dark Mirror issue.

TWW: And yet...unfortunately, due to Ganondorf's evil designs, the Master Sword you hold has lost this power.

Again, you're taking words much too literal. These 'evil designs' are the killing of the two Sages, which in turn led to the Master Sword losing its power. This has nothing to do with Ganondorf absorbing its powers.

FSA: However, Vaati's magic has robbed the Four Sword of its power to vanquish darkness.

Nothing about him absorbing the powers though. Whether the sword's powers fade or are robbed by the villain doesn't change anything. In any of the seen cases, it took centuries for the sword seal to be broken.

The Sages protect Hyrule against Ganon in OoT-TWW. In FSA the Maidens protect Hyrule against Vaati, since Ganon is no longer there. When Ganon appears, they help seal him away. And again, in ALttP, Vaati is out of the picture, and they guard against Ganon.

It's just as possible that the Sages sealed Ganon in OoT, guarded the seal in ALttP, then after Ganon was killed in Oracles their descendants went over to guarding the seal on Vaati, and after FSA it was Ganon who was guarded again.

Consider that FSA's woods are actually called the Dark World on the overworld map.

Sure, but does the name make this area identic to the actual Dark World we saw in the game? Even in the area "Dark World" you can travel between Light and Dark Worlds, in the Lost Woods for example. Thus, the name "Dark World" just means that this area is full of darkness now, but it needn't have anything to do with the actual Dark World.

You haven't seen the credits, have you?

Yes I have, only I haven't recorded them on tape or stored every single scene in my mind <_<
Do you wanna imply that the Dark Forest is shown not to have changed back?

Ganon being sealed can and does happen twice (OoT and FSA).

Sure, Ganon is sealed twice: first in the Dark World, later in the Four Sword. Both canonically proven!
While his sealing in the DW leads into ALttP and TWW respectively, his sealing in the Four Sword leads into LoZ.

Edited by Jumbie, 26 August 2006 - 07:33 PM.


#37 Fyxe

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 08:01 PM

Not the Trident. I apologize.


I'm not getting into this whole arguement, but I'd just like to say that the trident Phantom Ganon uses in OoT is likely intended to be the same trident Ganon used in ALttP. It is merely an upgraded representation of the same weapon. However, since the Oracle games and FSA the trident's design has become solidified and is more akin to it's appearance in ALttP.

I'm not so sure about the swords, I'd need to see them clearly to comment. I'm not sure if they're based around the trident or not. Ganon uses two very different swords in TWW.

Oddly, Phantom Ganon in TWW borrows elements from OoT Ganondorf (the floating, the tattered cape, the balls of magic and the sword) and OoT Ganon (the horns) as well as OoT's Phantom Ganon (he had different horns, but horns nontheless, glowing eyes, and also floated and used balls of magic and a weapon, and split into copies).

He doesn't borrow from TWW Ganon hardly at all.

Interestingly, Phantom Ganon shares many attributes to Agahnim - balls of magic, using duplicates and disappearing into the shadows and reappearing, and the way you fight him. He even has the glowing eyes. I'm sure this is no coincidence, as they are both alter-egos to Ganon. Could Phantom Ganon be key to Ganon's escape from the Sacred Realm in TWW's backstory? And how significant is Phantom Ganon in FSA?

Ganondorf himself has glowing eyes, actually.

#38 LionHarted

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 08:49 PM

The manual story, which has Ganon being sealed by the Seven Sages (not Maidens), is there for a reason.

Quite irrelevant, as I've already shown that there is fundamentally no difference between Sages and Maidens. Maidens is simply a term used to describe them as an individual group. More often you'll see them called "descendents of the Seven Sages" in ALttP.

How else would we have learned of the three Goddesses creating the world? That isn't even scratched upon in-game, and yet it is fully canonic as OoT showed.

That was the point. Some games show us the details behind events from other games.

Anyway, TWW's backstory and ALttP's plot only differ in the fact that in the first Ganon broke free whereas in the latter he was prevented from escaping and killed by the destined Hero. Everything else matches up too perfectly for them not to be alternate histories of each other.

Except "alternate histories" is a ridiculous concept that the developers didn't even hint towards anywhere in-game, ever.

What makes you so sure it's not the same? We know for certain that FSA's Trident once belonged to the King of Darkness before it was enshrined in the Pyramid, and seeing as there is only one King of Darkness in the Zelda series..

Phantom Ganon in OoT is sent to the "gap between dimensions" and we never see him, nor the weapon he carries, ever again. We see different-looking Phantom Ganons in TWW and FSA, but they are probably not "the same".

But understand, the thieves in FSA have no leader at all!!

Umm, what are you talking about? One of the objectives in Kakariko village in FSA is to find the leader's hideout. <.<

And to me it's but one of many possible explanations for the Dark Mirror issue.

I was applying the same concept to the Four Sword seal (when empowered by the Maidens/Sages), if you remember. <.<

Again, you're taking words much too literal. These 'evil designs' are the killing of the two Sages, which in turn led to the Master Sword losing its power. This has nothing to do with Ganondorf absorbing its powers.

You didn't read what I said. I said that swords losing their powers has always been a result of evil, not of time. I used the "sucked up" denotation to emphasize that it is Vaati that removes the sword's power, not to entail that he took it for himself.

It's just as possible that the Sages sealed Ganon in OoT, guarded the seal in ALttP, then after Ganon was killed in Oracles their descendants went over to guarding the seal on Vaati, and after FSA it was Ganon who was guarded again.

That's nice.

So Ganon never breaks free of the FSA seal? How does he appear in LoZ, then?

Sure, but does the name make this area identic to the actual Dark World we saw in the game? Even in the area "Dark World" you can travel between Light and Dark Worlds, in the Lost Woods for example. Thus, the name "Dark World" just means that this area is full of darkness now, but it needn't have anything to do with the actual Dark World.

Either that, or that's what the "Dark World" is--an area that is full of darkness.

Yes I have, only I haven't recorded them on tape or stored every single scene in my mind <_<
Do you wanna imply that the Dark Forest is shown not to have changed back?

It doesn't change back.

Sure, Ganon is sealed twice: first in the Dark World, later in the Four Sword.

The Dark Tribe is sealed "in" the Dark Mirror, but you still say it is possible that they were sent to the Dark World. Link is sucked "in" the Magic Mirror, but is sent to the Light World.

I say that Ganon is sealed "in" the Four Sword, but, due to the Maidens' power, is sent to the Dark World.

While his sealing in the DW leads into ALttP and TWW respectively, his sealing in the Four Sword leads into LoZ.

One seal cannot be broken twice.

If you explain this by citing the split timeline, you will have to prove the split timeline.

#39 Fyxe

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 08:58 PM

Quite irrelevant, as I've already shown that there is fundamentally no difference between Sages and Maidens.


Uh, there is. You can pretend they're the same thing but they're just not. If they were intended to be Sages they would call them Sages, if they were intended to be Maidens then they'll be called Maidens. It's that damn simple.

Also, for the last sodding time, the Dark World isn't inside the Four Sword. The Four Sword is not a transportation device to the Dark World. You made that up.

And have you seen how bloody easy it is to leave the Dark World in FSA? Sending Ganon to the Dark World would have been a completely useless gesture.

#40 LionHarted

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 09:10 PM

Also, for the last sodding time, the Dark World isn't inside the Four Sword. The Four Sword is not a transportation device to the Dark World. You made that up.

Good thing that's not my theory then.

My theory is that the Four Sword, when coupled with the Maidens' "power of the Sages", sends people to the Dark World. Is that a bad conclusion? No. After seeing the "power of the Sages" in other games, it's a perfectly reasonable conclusion. "In the Four Sword" doesn't mean "in the Dark World". "In the Four Sword" means that someone was sealed by the Four Sword's power, and sucked into it.

No one knows quite what that means.

Also, for the last sodding time, the Dark World isn't inside the Four Sword. The Four Sword is not a transportation device to the Dark World. You made that up.

And have you seen how bloody easy it is to leave the Dark World in FSA? Sending Ganon to the Dark World would have been a completely useless gesture.

Sealing the Dark World wouldn't have been, though. Notice that all the portals OUT OF the Dark World no longer exist in ALttP.

Edited by LionHarted, 26 August 2006 - 09:12 PM.


#41 Fyxe

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 09:21 PM

The Four Sword is not a transportation device to the Dark World.

Good thing that's not my theory then.

Oh?

My theory is that the Four Sword,

sends people to the Dark World.

Mmm, the inclusion of 'some maidens did it' doesn't make your theory radically different from what I said.

Is that a bad conclusion? No.

Well, you made it up with no evidence from the game to support it, so, yes.

"In the Four Sword" means that someone was sealed by the Four Sword's power, and sucked into it.

No, it means IN. THE. Four Sword. Not in the DARK WORLD. Those are two different states of being.

No one knows quite what that means.

Then you shouldn't assume any more than what we are told. Vaati is sealed in the Four Sword. Twice. Ganon is sealed in the Four Sword. Nothing more.

Sealing the Dark World wouldn't have been, though. Notice that all the portals OUT OF the Dark World no longer exist in ALttP.

Oh, not only did they seal Ganon in the Dark World via the Four Sword for some obscure reason, but they ALSO sealed the entire Dark World by putting a magical barrier around just the Four Sword alone and you got all this from no in-game events whatsoever?

Pleeeease don't just make stuff up.

#42 LionHarted

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 09:30 PM

No, it means IN. THE. Four Sword. Not in the DARK WORLD. Those are two different states of being.

Nobody says that Ganon is sealed "in. the. Four. Sword." So I'm not going to assume it.

Oh, not only did they seal Ganon in the Dark World via the Four Sword for some obscure reason, but they ALSO sealed the entire Dark World by putting a magical barrier around just the Four Sword alone and you got all this from no in-game events whatsoever?

Pleeeease don't just make stuff up.

So the portals disappeared by themselves?

#43 Mad Scrub

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 01:15 AM

One seal cannot be broken twice.

If you explain this by citing the split timeline, you will have to prove the split timeline.

They wouldn't be the exact same seal but they would, I assume, be cast in the adult segment and after the child segment of OoT. In the adult segment, Ganondorf is sealed in the Evil Realm and breaks free in TP or if not TP then TWW. If you believe in a split timeline, after Zelda sends Link back in time seven years, he informs Princess Zelda of Ganondorf's plans before going to Termina and the IW breaks out around this time.

#44 spunky-monkey

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 02:36 AM

Okay...


Shadow Link was sealed in the Dark Mirror.

Vaati was seemingly destroyed because he evaporated into nothing.

Ganon was sealed into the Four Sword. The Four Sword is not a gateway to the Dark World and that's all there is to it.

#45 LionHarted

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 07:45 AM

Ganon was sealed into the Four Sword. The Four Sword is not a gateway to the Dark World and that's all there is to it.

Allow me to rephrase.

Ganon AND all his evil are sealed in the Four Sword. The Dark World is a product of Ganon's evil. The Dark World, too, as well as all the portals, is sealed along with him.

If you believe in a split timeline, after Zelda sends Link back in time seven years, he informs Princess Zelda of Ganondorf's plans before going to Termina and the IW breaks out around this time.

The IW happens whether he informs Zelda or not.

The problem is, the Sages still can't hear the awakening call because of the evil power coming from their temples, so they can't rise to that call without a Hero, in which case Adult OoT has to happen in order for the IW to happen in the OoT era.

Edited by LionHarted, 27 August 2006 - 07:47 AM.


#46 Mad Scrub

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 06:02 PM

The IW happens whether he informs Zelda or not.

The problem is, the Sages still can't hear the awakening call because of the evil power coming from their temples, so they can't rise to that call without a Hero, in which case Adult OoT has to happen in order for the IW to happen in the OoT era.

The IW cannot be the adult segment of OoT because the IW didn't involve a Hero and the MS was never used.

#47 Fyxe

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 07:20 PM

Mad Scrub, nothing in ALttP's backstory ever says that *doesn't* happen. The Knights of Hyrule were all heroes. The existence of Link being seperate was presumably lost over time. Considering only Zelda saw the final battle and that Link vanished into nothing, it's obvious that the knowledge of Link would be lost when it comes to historical records.

And why does the ALttP backstory mention the Master Sword at all, anyway, if it has no direct relevance to the Imprisoning War? But again, as far as the general population knows, the Master Sword was not used.

#48 Mad Scrub

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 07:59 PM

Understood, but you can't really put ALttP in between OoT and TWW though can you?

#49 Jumbie

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 10:08 PM

Interestingly, Phantom Ganon shares many attributes to Agahnim - balls of magic, using duplicates and disappearing into the shadows and reappearing, and the way you fight him. He even has the glowing eyes. I'm sure this is no coincidence, as they are both alter-egos to Ganon. Could Phantom Ganon be key to Ganon's escape from the Sacred Realm in TWW's backstory? And how significant is Phantom Ganon in FSA?

Interesting thoughts! You should really open an own thread about it :)

Except "alternate histories" is a ridiculous concept that the developers didn't even hint towards anywhere in-game, ever.

Obviously we think they did, otherwise our thoughts wouldn't ever have been led to assume a Split Timeline, in the first place. What happens in ALttP also happens identically before TWW, only that no hero appears, therefore the Flood occurs (or in other words, the Great Cataclysm).

It doesn't change back.

Not in the credits of FSA. But if ALttP really came after it, the Woods would have to change back because the trees and entire structure of the forest are totally different in FSA and ALttP.

The Dark Tribe is sealed "in" the Dark Mirror, but you still say it is possible that they were sent to the Dark World. Link is sucked "in" the Magic Mirror, but is sent to the Light World.
I say that Ganon is sealed "in" the Four Sword, but, due to the Maidens' power, is sent to the Dark World.

Well, I'm lucky that my theory about the Mirror containing the DW was only one very rash idea to explain the Dark Tribe issue. Since my idea resembles yours of the Four Sword so unpleasantly closely, it'll be best for me to skip it altogether.

If you explain this by citing the split timeline, you will have to prove the split timeline.

My entire debating is based on a Split, naturally <_< However, I'm not required to prove one of the two major timeline ideologies. Do I ask you to prove the stupid Single Timeline? No, and in fact it's impossible to prove either. What you do have to (try to) prove though, is your own shit about the Four Sword containing the DW or sending Ganon to the DW, or whatever.

No one knows quite what that means.

I do know it. I'd have to bring an example from another series, Dragonball Z once again.. Anyway, there is a character who was imprisoned inside the blade of a legendary sword. So you see, this idea is not unknown to Japanese mangaka and game designers.

Notice that all the portals OUT OF the Dark World no longer exist in ALttP.

So the portals disappeared by themselves?

Firstly, if ALttP comes first, then FSA's portals weren't even present in ALttP.
Secondly, we don't know for how long the portals in FSA remain open. Almost everytime you need a Moon Pearl to open one, but we don't know what happens to the portals after Link leaves the level. Remember, the children in the village disappeared into portals which were closed again by the time Link arrived in the village. From this we can conclude that they are not nearly as stable as the portals in ALttP, maybe only remain open for a few hours.

Nobody says that Ganon is sealed "in. the. Four. Sword." So I'm not going to assume it.

But he's seen being sucked into the blade. That's where our assuming has to end, we simply cannot add stuff like the sword transports him into the DW, or the DW is inside the blade.

#50 LionHarted

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 12:34 AM

But he's seen being sucked into the blade. That's where our assuming has to end, we simply cannot add stuff like the sword transports him into the DW, or the DW is inside the blade.

The Dark World is part of the "darkness", and is therefore in the blade.

"The people of this village... They're being spirited away by some force. It may be that the Dark World is drawing them in. Save the villagers, Link! Bring light to their darkness!"

"Do you know this village Link? Kakariko was once home to many kind people. Now, however, it's become a rather dangerous place. The darkness that cloaks its people has cost many of them their humanity. It's madness! How much stronger will this darkness in Hyrule grow?"

"Now, the Four Sword... Place the sword that sealed away the darkness on the pedestal."

Do I ask you to prove the stupid Single Timeline? No, and in fact it's impossible to prove either.

The burden of proof lies with you, not me. The timeline was single before the split theory was invented.

Edited by LionHarted, 28 August 2006 - 06:24 PM.


#51 Mad Scrub

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 01:00 AM

I know it's not good to base a timeline theory on art but this scan from the Official A Link to the Past Player's Guide caught my eye. When Ganon was sealed in the FS the seal looked identical to the one that's been cast here.


Edited by Mad Scrub, 28 August 2006 - 01:04 AM.


#52 LionHarted

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 07:56 AM

I know it's not good to base a timeline theory on art...

Why not? In some of the earlier interviews regarding TWW, the developers connect it to OoT (and MM and ALttP, but I won't get into that) using the soundtrack, of all things.

#53 Fyxe

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 02:52 PM

Wow, if you're going to make such a nutty claim at least back it up with quotes. Chances are you misinterepreted something and took it too literally.

Also, where is this 'darkness' that you think is somehow inside the Four Sword? Is everything dark therefore the Dark World? Is Vaati the living personification of the Dark World? If you close your eyes do you go to the Dark World?

Seriously, your claim has no evidence to back it up. At all.

Edited by Fyxe, 28 August 2006 - 02:55 PM.


#54 LionHarted

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 05:43 PM

Also, where is this 'darkness' that you think is somehow inside the Four Sword? Is everything dark therefore the Dark World? Is Vaati the living personification of the Dark World? If you close your eyes do you go to the Dark World?

"Darkness" encompasses everything in the game that can be considered to be "dark." That would include the Dark World.

If you think that's far-fetched, then you're an idiot. There's no better way to put it, so I won't even try.

Edited by LionHarted, 28 August 2006 - 05:44 PM.


#55 Fyxe

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 05:59 PM

"Darkness" encompasses everything in the game that can be considered to be "dark." That would include the Dark World.

If you think that's far-fetched, then you're an idiot. There's no better way to put it, so I won't even try.


You're an idiot to think everything dark is therefore the Dark World. That's just fucking stupid. Don't even try to insult me if you're going to be a goddamn hypocrite.

#56 LionHarted

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 06:08 PM

You're an idiot to think everything dark is therefore the Dark World. That's just fucking stupid. Don't even try to insult me if you're going to be a goddamn hypocrite.

That's not what I said.

I said that the Dark World is dark, and therefore it is part of "the darkness."

Edited by LionHarted, 28 August 2006 - 06:08 PM.


#57 Fyxe

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 06:15 PM

WHAT darkness? What darkness are you even talking about?

#58 LionHarted

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 06:16 PM

WHAT darkness? What darkness are you even talking about?

"Place the sword that sealed away the darkness on the pedestal."

That darkness.

#59 Fyxe

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 06:19 PM

...The darkness = Ganon, for heaven's sake.

#60 LionHarted

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 06:24 PM

...The darkness = Ganon, for heaven's sake.

Ganon is never called "the darkness" in FSA.

"The darkness" in Hyrule, however, is used in relation to the Dark World.

"The people of this village... They're being spirited away by some force. It may be that the Dark World is drawing them in. Save the villagers, Link! Bring light to their darkness!"

"Do you know this village Link? Kakariko was once home to many kind people. Now, however, it's become a rather dangerous place. The darkness that cloaks its people has cost many of them their humanity. It's madness! How much stronger will this darkness in Hyrule grow?"

"Now, the Four Sword... Place the sword that sealed away the darkness on the pedestal."

Please actually support your point.

Edited by LionHarted, 28 August 2006 - 06:25 PM.





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