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Is the Bible True?


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#91 Wolf O'Donnell

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Posted 25 May 2006 - 08:27 AM

People, People, talk has swayed from the main topic, The Bible is true, if you really wanted to find out, deep down in your heart, you would find that not only is it spiritually true, but also historically.


Or you could look deep down into your gut like this guy did...

Stephen Colbert: Do you know you have more nerve endings in your gut than you have in your head? You can look it up. I know some of you are going to say "I did look it up, and that's not true." That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut. I did. My gut tells me that's how our nervous system works.

Excerpt from Stephen Colbert's speech at the White House



#92 SOAP

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Posted 25 May 2006 - 09:46 AM

No it's not true.

#93 Hero of Slime

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Posted 25 May 2006 - 11:11 PM

Do you have any evidence to back that up, SOAP?

Edited by The Zol, 25 May 2006 - 11:14 PM.


#94 Wolf O'Donnell

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 04:43 AM

Do you have any evidence to back that up, SOAP?


Evidence? Who needs evidence? He looked it up in his heart... or his gut.

#95 spunky-monkey

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 07:04 AM

Please tell me you guys are not actually talking about human biology...


The heart (♥) has long been used as a symbol to refer to the spiritual, emotional, moral, and in the past also intellectual core of a human being.
http://en.wikipedia....m_and_Metaphor)


I believe this is all a spiritual voyage of self-discovery after all God/Jesus are supposed to reside in your heart i.e. your s-o-u-l because God created you therefore you are a small part of him (only people who love to do evil things are ultimately cut off from God's spirit and sent to 'Hell'). Whatever YOU believe about God will come true, that's why God has no physical form. The Bible being just a book is worthless in the end for it is only based on other people's beliefs about this 'almighty God' out there. However this man-made book is useful for as a guide, or a first step in the right direction to make you self-aware about your own soul and that this God created it.

Don't follow the Bible word-for-word, its been cut up and edited so many times over, that the teachings of the Holy Spirit are completely lost and there are even King James' versions of it out there.

#96 Wolf O'Donnell

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 07:37 AM

Please tell me you guys are not actually talking about human biology...
I believe this is all a spiritual voyage of self-discovery after all God/Jesus are supposed to reside in your heart i.e. your s-o-u-l because God created you therefore you are a small part of him (only people who love to do evil things are ultimately cut off from God's spirit and sent to 'Hell').


So that's what it means to beat the bejesus out of someone. If I beat them enough, does that mean they won't have any soul left? :D

#97 Alakhriveion

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 07:38 AM

Look, the fact of it is none of this religious stuff is real. Humans made up all the scriptures and churches and dogmas and such, except, of course, for Allah's One True Faith of the Nation of Gods and Earths (Five-Percent Nation* if you're not in to formality). And they really don't CARE what religion the white devils follow, because we're all going to hell anyway. Not white? Probably see you in hell anyway. God pretty much hates everyone except Clarence 13X and the Wu-Tang Clan.

See? The truth makes these things a lot easier.

#98 Nevermind

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 07:49 AM

You poor, poor soul. You are on the right track knowing that none of these religions are real, but your thetan count still seems to be rather high. All you need to do is donate more money to the church so your body thetans can be slowly removed. Help us help you.

#99 spunky-monkey

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 11:30 AM

So that's what it means to beat the bejesus out of someone. If I beat them enough, does that mean they won't have any soul left? :D

I'm not sure where that saying comes from.

Sure you can destroy a person's physical form (body) if that's what you mean, but you can't destroy what made them up because 'The Law of Conservation of Energy' states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can change its form. I imagine 'souls' work the same way.



And they really don't CARE what religion the white devils follow, because we're all going to hell anyway. Not white? Probably see you in hell anyway. God pretty much hates everyone except Clarence 13X and the Wu-Tang Clan.

That's very negative Alak. Avoid those 'Lake of Fire' teachings in the Bible (New Testament) because this wrathful hateful God is NOT the same loving 'father' that Jesus spoke about.

Consider this then: Why would God create everything just to destroy it?

This 'Hell' was made up by the Church to scare you so they could control you. The idea that God would lose souls to Satan is laughable and that we mortals could find this place outside the infinite creator another lie. When we die we all go back to God because such an entity is obviously beyond time, I suppose to some people that is 'Hell' because they don't love God.

#100 Korhend

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Posted 26 May 2006 - 09:47 PM

See? The truth makes these things a lot easier.

I know, obviously God is an incarnate being with thick glasses and a crippling lack of anything resembling charisma or empathy who spends his days locating the reproductive organs of brine shrimp.
Posted Image

Edited by Korhend, 26 May 2006 - 09:47 PM.


#101 Kazi

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 12:41 AM

I have just this to say on 'is the bible true?'

my opinion: no. the only proof of god ever existing is in the form of a book written during a time when it was common sense that the earth was flat and lightning was caused by an angry deity.

so:

my cactus is the ruler of the universe. it created all life and governs every aspect of the cosmos. my cactus is your father, your lord, and your king. because I have it written here that it is true, and I have read it, it must be true.

#102 Reflectionist

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 12:27 PM

Sorry if my ban isn't up, feels like a week, and this post just caught my eye.

I have just this to say on 'is the bible true?'

my opinion: no. the only proof of god ever existing is in the form of a book written during a time when it was common sense that the earth was flat and lightning was caused by an angry deity.

so:

my cactus is the ruler of the universe. it created all life and governs every aspect of the cosmos. my cactus is your father, your lord, and your king. because I have it written here that it is true, and I have read it, it must be true.


Fact:
You're just one man. Even if you did write about the cactus, it couldn't possibly be true. The Cactus wasn't written about thousands of years ago saying the same things you're saying now.

From Genesis to Matthew, the Bible is looking ahead towards Christ. From Acts to Jude, the Bible is looking back. Revelation... well, you know..

But the point, throughout the WHOLE book is the same.

It doesn't matter what you believe. What matters is what's right.

You can say the Bible hasn't been explicitly proven, but there's been more suggestive evidence for it than against it. No matter what the media is going to tell you. Or the Atheist college professors who are hell bent on destroying the morale of Christians.

Once again: if there's no God, then... that must mean that the Universe was created completely randomly... which means that we're all insignificant and live pretty useless lives.

So why would you want to do anything good? Why not just run around naked, smoking crack, and raping nuns? There's no High Law to abide by.

Sorry, but people who think that Science disproves God are stupid.

Science doesn't disprove God. Science explains how He does things.

What's funny, is that half the people who don't believe in God haven't even read the Bible. They just assume that God doesn't exist. The other half, has read the Bible, and they just don't want to believe it because they believe in being Tolerant, and being different. So they're just being different just to be different.

Edited by Reflectionist, 28 May 2006 - 12:29 PM.


#103 Kazi

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 01:06 PM

to me, your argument is moot because I don't believe the bible is true. quoting the bible isn't much of a standing point. as far as I'm concerned, god does not exist. jesus christ was a normal, selfless man, but he did not have divine powers. to me, god is no more believable than the easter bunny.

that is what I believe. I wasn't brainwashed by the media or an anti-christian, I just find it silly that a mysterious ghost man spoke and everything appeared.

It doesn't matter what you believe.

Sorry, but people who think that Science disproves God are stupid.


I hope you get banned again. it's funny that if I say that god is no more than your imaginary friend, I get a slew of insults, but when you tell me I'm stupid and wrong because my opinion differs from yours, it's fine to you. apparently, 'because I said so' is all the point this forum needs to prove or disprove something.

#104 Selena

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 02:15 PM

The other half, has read the Bible, and they just don't want to believe it because they believe in being Tolerant, and being different. So they're just being different just to be different.

Or, uh... I just don't agree with it. But find the Old Testament fascinating none the less.

From Genesis to Matthew, the Bible is looking ahead towards Christ. From Acts to Jude, the Bible is looking back. Revelation... well, you know..


I don't know. If it was all about Jesus right from the beginning, then the Jews probably would of hopped on the Christ bandwagon ages ago.

Once again: if there's no God, then... that must mean that the Universe was created completely randomly... which means that we're all insignificant and live pretty useless lives.

So why would you want to do anything good? Why not just run around naked, smoking crack, and raping nuns? There's no High Law to abide by.

Well you know us non-believers. We meet up on Saturdays for our usual nun raping sessions, followed by a midnight orgy amongst ourselves, ended by one of us biting the head off of a bat and bathing in its blood. And in the words of Fight Club, I think that we're "the same decaying matter as everything else," personally. And I'm not having an emotional breakdown over it. Nor do I think I'm useless. But that's just little nun-raping me.

You can say the Bible hasn't been explicitly proven, but there's been more suggestive evidence for it than against it. No matter what the media is going to tell you. Or the Atheist college professors who are hell bent on destroying the morale of Christians.


Yup. We, the small minority of atheists/agnostics in the States, are all out to get you. Why some people go into martyr mode when they're questioned I'll never know. Especially when they're by far the largest religious group in the States. o.O

#105 Alakhriveion

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 04:06 PM

Sorry if my ban isn't up, feels like a week, and this post just caught my eye.
Fact:
You're just one man. Even if you did write about the cactus, it couldn't possibly be true. The Cactus wasn't written about thousands of years ago saying the same things you're saying now.

OK, but people WERE writing about things other than Jah or Jesus, and still are.

From Genesis to Matthew, the Bible is looking ahead towards Christ. From Acts to Jude, the Bible is looking back. Revelation... well, you know..

Now, see, when I read it, for some reason that doesn't happen. There are people who say it builds up to Muhammed, to Haile Selassie, to Wallace Fard, to L. Ron Hubbard, to Menachem Schneerson... Myself, I think the totality of the Bible points to the arrival of the Sugarhill Gang.

You can say the Bible hasn't been explicitly proven, but there's been more suggestive evidence for it than against it.

There's that Truthiness again.

No matter what the media is going to tell you. Or the Atheist college professors who are hell bent on destroying the morale of Christians.

T.I.N.C.

Once again: if there's no God, then... that must mean that the Universe was created completely randomly... which means that we're all insignificant and live pretty useless lives.

So why would you want to do anything good? Why not just run around naked, smoking crack, and raping nuns? There's no High Law to abide by.

That's always been my philosophy. I just wish convents wern't so well locked!

Why am I even bothering with this?

#106 Reflectionist

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 04:13 PM

XD

"everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved"

So, if you feel like it, do that. If not, well, it's not really my job to make sure you do it. It's just my job to make sure you hear it.

#107 Korhend

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 04:34 PM

Once again: if there's no God, then... that must mean that the Universe was created completely randomly... which means that we're all insignificant and live pretty useless lives.

Pick up a copy of The Gay Science, it explains things pretty well. Also thus Zalthurustra has relavent passages as well

'To the clean are all things clean' — thus say the people. I, however, say unto you: To the swine all things become swinish! Therefore preach the visionaries and bowed-heads (whose hearts are also bowed down): 'The world itself is a filthy monster.' For these are all unclean spirits; especially those, however, who have no peace or rest, unless they see the world FROM THE BACKSIDE — the backworldsmen! TO THOSE do I say it to the face, although it sound unpleasantly: the world resembleth man, in that it hath a backside, — SO MUCH is true! There is in the world much filth: SO MUCH is true! But the world itself is not therefore a filthy monster!

To believe that without a secondary world this world has no value is to believe in Nihilism and is moral collapse, not the belief in a moral soley of this world. If what needs divine retribution to make what is virtuous virtuous, and what is immoral immoral, one is ethically lacking. I do not hold out for a punishment in the next world for the monsters of this world, but I still know they are monsters without one to tell me.

Edited by Korhend, 28 May 2006 - 04:43 PM.


#108 TheAvengerLever

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 07:44 PM

The Trial of Jesus...

Jesus is brought before Annas, Caiaphas the High Priest father, who charges him with blasphemy (what Jesus was teaching contradicted the rules of the Sanhedrin) Caiaphas charged him for not keeping the Sabbath day holy (as Jesus had healed the blind man on the Sabbath) then Jesus was brougth before the Sanhedrin, and then taken in the morning to Pilate. Pilate found no charge to bring this man to death. But he feared the revolt of the people. Jesus is brought before Herod, who also finds no charge against him. But finally Pilate cracks under pressure after Caiaphas brought the charge of treason against Jesus (treason for what? Who knows?) Pilate orders Jesus to be flogged with the cat of nine tails. He is beaten. But that isn't enough for Caiaphas and the Jewish leaders. Pilate casts the vote...he plans to release either Barabbus, a known murderer, or Jesus, who seems innocent. The crowd votes Barabbus, Jesus is crucified. Now, to those who think that the Bible isnt true, you've got the tomb. Jesus's body was missing from the tomb. But robbers couldn't have taken it. According to the book of Matthew, guards were placed in front of the tomb. Where there was also a big freakin' rock rolled in front of. And to those who thought the Apostles stole his body...the idiots didn't even know that Jesus was supposed to be resurrected. How would they have known to take his body? This fact is stated in the Book Of John. Secondly...you've got over five hundred eye witness accounts of Jesus being seen after his resurrection...Mary, the guards, the Apostles, others...all before he ascended to heaven.

BTW another point I want to make is that Satan is not a horned dude with a scepter in red sitting on a throne down in hell. He was an angel, the most beautiful before he fell from Heaven (as in Ezekiel and Isaiah) and he doesn't rule in hell, as hell was created for his suffering, not his enjoyment. He rules the world. Thats why it sucks so bad. And if you're wondering why God allowed him to do this...dont worry. There will come a time when Jesus will return and take back what he created. And then he'll kick Satan's ass into hell.

About the false gospels...there was no church conspiracy to cover up the truth about Jesus...The Council of Niecea was a meeting to prove the diety of Jesus, not to choose which of the Gospels they wanted to be true or not. Besides that, the four gospels you see today in the Bible were written around AD 60's whilst the supposed true gospels you hear about today were written 300 years after the resurrection.

Edited by TheAvengerButton, 13 June 2006 - 07:47 PM.


#109 Alakhriveion

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 08:20 PM

Pilate casts the vote...he plans to release either Barabbus, a known murderer, or Jesus, who seems innocent. The crowd votes Barabbus, Jesus is crucified.

A story which contradicts all extrabiblical information about Roman law.

Now, to those who think that the Bible isnt true, you've got the tomb. Jesus's body was missing from the tomb. But robbers couldn't have taken it. According to the book of Matthew, guards were placed in front of the tomb. Where there was also a big freakin' rock rolled in front of.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, taking a body off the cross is a capitol offense.

you've got over five hundred eye witness accounts of Jesus being seen after his resurrection...Mary, the guards, the Apostles, others...all before he ascended to heaven.

Eyewitness accounts supporting the accuracy of the Bible IN THE BIBLE? Whoud'a thunk it?

BTW another point I want to make is that Satan is not a horned dude with a scepter in red sitting on a throne down in hell. He was an angel, the most beautiful before he fell from Heaven (as in Ezekiel and Isaiah) and he doesn't rule in hell, as hell was created for his suffering, not his enjoyment. He rules the world. Thats why it sucks so bad.

Which isn't EVEN supported by the Bible.

About the false gospels...there was no church conspiracy to cover up the truth about Jesus...The Council of Niecea was a meeting to prove the diety of Jesus, not to choose which of the Gospels they wanted to be true or not. Besides that, the four gospels you see today in the Bible were written around AD 60's whilst the supposed true gospels you hear about today were written 300 years after the resurrection.

Do your homework.

#110 Showsni

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Posted 13 June 2006 - 11:00 PM

A story which contradicts all extrabiblical information about Roman law.

The Bible says that it was a local custom that allowed the freeing of one prisoner... I don't know the historical specifics, but the Romans were very hot on letting the places they'd conquered have a say in hor they were run and assimiliating local cultures into their own.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, taking a body off the cross is a capitol offense.

Joseph did ask for permission first, apparently.

Which isn't EVEN supported by the Bible.

Well, the bit about him being punished in hell is. The rest of it...

#111 TheAvengerLever

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 12:26 AM

Homework for what? Don't use a word like that...use RESEARCH instead. And oh by the by, I've done my research: From gotquestions.com:

"Suggested dates for the writing of the Gospel of Matthew range from as early as 40 A.D. to as late as 140 A.D. This wide range of dates from scholars indicates the subjective nature of the dating process. Generally, one will find that the presuppositions of the scholars greatly influence their dating of the gospel.



For example, in the past many liberal theologians have argued for a later dating of many of the New Testament books than is probably warranted or valid, in an attempt to discredit or cast doubts upon the content and authenticity of the Gospel accounts. On the other hand, there are many scholars that look to a much earlier dating of the New Testament books. There are some that believe there is good evidence to support the view that the whole New Testament, including Revelation, was written prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. It is our contention that the evidence supports the earlier dating more than it does the later dating.



There are scholars who believe that Matthew was written as early as ten to twelve years after the death of Christ. Those that hold to this earlier dating of Matthew believe that he first wrote his Gospel in Aramaic and then it was later translated into Greek. One of the evidences of this earlier dating of Matthew’s Gospel is the fact that early church leaders such as Irenaeus, Origen, and Eusebius recorded that Matthew first wrote his gospel for Jewish believers while he was still in Palestine. In fact Eusebius, (a bishop of Caesarea and known as the father of church history), reported that Matthew wrote his gospel before he left Palestine to preach in other lands, which Eusebius says happened about 12 years after the death of Christ. Some scholars believe that this would place the writing of Matthew as early as 40-45 A.D. and as late as 55 A.D.



Even if the Gospels were not written until 30 years after Christ’s death, that would still place the writing of them prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. This presents no major problem with their authority or accuracy. Passing on oral traditions and teachings was common place in the Jewish culture of that day, and memorization was highly cultivated and practiced. Also, the fact that even at that time there would have been a considerable number of eyewitnesses around to dispute and discredit any false claims, and the fact that none of the “hard sayings” of Jesus were taken from the gospel accounts, further supports the accuracy of them. Had the Gospels been edited before being written down, as some liberal scholars contend, then it was a very poor job. The writers left far too many “hard sayings,” and culturally unacceptable / politically incorrect accounts that would need explaining. An example of this is that the first witnesses of the resurrection were women, whose testimony held no value as a witness in the culture of that day."

BTW I WAS wrong about something, it was the Council of Carthage that tried to prove the diety of Jesus, so I'll give you that one, Alak.

But read this, from the same site, about the Gnostic Gospels (the fake ones)

"So, what are we to make of the Gnostic gospels? Should some or all of them be in the Bible? No, they should not. First, as we pointed out above, the Gnostic gospels are forgeries. The Gnostic gospels were fraudulently written in the names of the apostles in order to give them a legitimacy in the early church. Thankfully, the early church fathers were nearly unanimous in recognizing the Gnostic gospels as promoting false teachings about virtually every key Christian doctrine. There are countless contradictions between the Gnostic gospels and the true Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The Gnostic gospels can be a good source to study early Christian heresies, but they should be rejected outright as not belonging in the Bible and not representing the genuine Christian faith."


Btw on the Satan thing, the rest of it is an idea held and accepted by [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of Christians, but it is a strange idea to think that Satan rules the place he is supposed to be punished in.

And on the note of the eye witness accounts, they were recorded by the early church. I forgot to say that and I apologize. Alak I dont mean to attack you or anything, but since we are debating, you obviously need to read up on this stuff. You were wrong about the "extrabiblical" Roman law. You were wrong about taking the body off the cross...and you obviously didn't have anything better to say than "Do Your Homework" which shows that you probably dont know what happened. I dont either, I wasn't there, but I get my information from scholars...

Edited by TheAvengerButton, 14 June 2006 - 12:29 AM.


#112 Alakhriveion

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 12:53 AM

The Bible says that it was a local custom that allowed the freeing of one prisoner... I don't know the historical specifics, but the Romans were very hot on letting the places they'd conquered have a say in hor they were run and assimiliating local cultures into their own.

Ah, but Rome had a special campaign against Jewish religion because it had long fuelled resistance movements. Pilate, in fact, was notorious both for his ruthlessness and disregard for local culture, making the idea that he'd free anybody unlikey and that he'd free them for Passover, still moreso.

Joseph did ask for permission first, apparently.

Doesn't matter. There's no point in going through the trouble of nailing them up if you're going to take the body down later. You can give someone a slow, painful, even public death in any number of ways, but to leave the body out for scavangers and as a subtle warning to would-be revolutionaries, you gotta go with the cross.

Homework for what? Don't use a word like that...use RESEARCH instead. And oh by the by, I've done my research: From gotquestions.com

Mark is the first Gospel because the others quote it, and the other synoptic Gospels draw too heavily on Thomas to predate it. I'm just going to lay out the issue I have with your nonsense because it isn't my job to nitpick lengthy articles for Christian apology sites with low standards.

Btw on the Satan thing, the rest of it is an idea held and accepted by [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of Christians,

And not supported by the Bible.

And on the note of the eye witness accounts, they were recorded by the early church. I forgot to say that and I apologize.

And recorded where...?

#113 SOAP

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 06:07 AM

Consider this then: Why would God create everything just to destroy it?

This 'Hell' was made up by the Church to scare you so they could control you. The idea that God would lose souls to Satan is laughable and that we mortals could find this place outside the infinite creator another lie. When we die we all go back to God because such an entity is obviously beyond time, I suppose to some people that is 'Hell' because they don't love God.


This post stuck to me for some reason?

Why did God create the world if he's just going to destroy it? Well why do little kids build whole cities out of building blocks just to smash them in after they're finished. To have something to destroy? Okay so maybe God isn't exactly a little kid. But destruction is just as much a part of the flow of life as creation. If God created the world he can destroy it and anyone on it as he pleases. It's his craetion.

I also find it funny that you think Hell was made up by the church to scare people into becoming Christian when it was Jesus himself who first thought of the fiery concept of hell as we know it today. Before taht, Hell was was more a beast than a place and had a large mouth that devoured the souls of the wicked. That wasn't scary enough, I suppose. *shrug* If hell exists, I think it'd be more a state of mind than anything else.

Also to answer Zol's question earlier: If I had evidence I would've provided them. Not that anyone who claimed the Bible was true provided any evidence themselves... I say it is not true for the same reason anyone else says it is. It's that simple.

#114 Wolf O'Donnell

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 06:29 AM

Sure you can destroy a person's physical form (body) if that's what you mean, but you can't destroy what made them up because 'The Law of Conservation of Energy' states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can change its form. I imagine 'souls' work the same way.


Actually, the Law of Conservation of Energy states that nothing can be created or destroyed, not even a human body. Things can only have their forms changed. Why does it apply to the physical body?

Because E=mc². (Energy = mass x speed of light²)

That's very negative Alak. Avoid those 'Lake of Fire' teachings in the Bible (New Testament) because this wrathful hateful God is NOT the same loving 'father' that Jesus spoke about.


But they have to be, otherwise the God of the Old Testament and the New Testament are two different beings, which means there are now two gods.

By the way, the Gnostic Gospels are not forgeries. They are no more forgeries than the other gospels. The only reason they were not included was because of Bishop Athasnius in approximately 400AD. (It's actually three hundred and something, but I forget which year it was). He was very adamant that the Trinity Doctrine be expounded, so he sent a letter to all the different churches, telling them to get rid of any gospel that contradicted his view.

Some people must have really loved their "heretical" gospels because they buried them up in those canopic jars for future prosperity.

The fact of the matter is that Bishop Athanasius was trying to push his dogmatic agenda through. The Church was heavily divided on the matter of Jesus' trinitarian aspect, some thinking him not a part of the Trinity and otherwise.

Athanasius was not God, was not inspired by God and ultimately was a fallible human being.

#115 spunky-monkey

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 08:26 AM

Why did God create the world if he's just going to destroy it? Well why do little kids build whole cities out of building blocks just to smash them in after they're finished. To have something to destroy? Okay so maybe God isn't exactly a little kid. But destruction is just as much a part of the flow of life as creation. If God created the world he can destroy it and anyone on it as he pleases. It's his craetion.

What's that kid going to do with himself after the city is destroyed? That little kid will have nothing to play with. The only thing that can happen now is to rebuild it all over again. A very interesting comparison but I cannot agree or disagree with what you've just said as this 'destroyer' image would have us compare God to Godzilla. There's nothing to suggest that God would not destroy everything apart from the fact that it's counterproductive.


I also find it funny that you think Hell was made up by the church to scare people into becoming Christian when it was Jesus himself who first thought of the fiery concept of hell as we know it today. Before taht, Hell was was more a beast than a place and had a large mouth that devoured the souls of the wicked. That wasn't scary enough, I suppose. *shrug* If hell exists, I think it'd be more a state of mind than anything else.

My views on this have changed since then. I cannot see the logic behind punishing a fellow mortal for all eternity, so if I'm going to this fiery Hell or monster's belly for some trivial sin, then I have no choice but to accept it. Therefore, in all likelihood I'll probably be denied 'Classic Hell' and be sent to 'My Little Pony Hell' where everything is horribly pink and every 5 minutes there will be another bastard song. >.<

Like death, if you don't care about Heaven or Hell then they won't have any real power over you.


But they have to be, otherwise the God of the Old Testament and the New Testament are two different beings, which means there are now two gods.

I don't know. I try not to confuse God the creator with God the destroyer. If they are the same God then we're in big trouble.

Edited by Ricky, 14 June 2006 - 08:30 AM.


#116 TheAvengerLever

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 12:16 PM

Jesus was the creator, as the first chapter of the Book of John tells us.

#117 TheAvengerLever

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 12:33 PM

Doesn't matter. There's no point in going through the trouble of nailing them up if you're going to take the body down later. You can give someone a slow, painful, even public death in any number of ways, but to leave the body out for scavangers and as a subtle warning to would-be revolutionaries, you gotta go with the cross.

...what do you mean it doesn't matter? Of course it matters.

Mark is the first Gospel because the others quote it, and the other synoptic Gospels draw too heavily on Thomas to predate it. I'm just going to lay out the issue I have with your nonsense because it isn't my job to nitpick lengthy articles for Christian apology sites with low standards.


A whole lot of scholars believe that the Gospel of Thomas wasn't even written by Thomas. And the only one spouting nonsense is you. You aren't even being relevant to the conversation:

Myself, I think the totality of the Bible points to the arrival of the Sugarhill Gang.

And what does the Sugarhill Gang have to do with THE BIBLE!?

And not supported by the Bible.


Never said it was.

And recorded where...?


Look it up, I don't have to do all the work for you.

#118 Korhend

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 01:02 PM

...what do you mean it doesn't matter? Of course it matters.

Well if his body was moved surreptitiously, as you claim, that contradicts the idea that Romans would set up gaurds for a body that was hid from them never mind the fact that any rock that was small enough to be moved in front of the cave is small enough to be moved away from the cave.


Look it up, I don't have to do all the work for you.

When your making a claim, you do. For example, if I told you that at the Potsdam conference Jesus recommended killing 50,000 people as a warning, I would have to look it up, not you.

#119 TheAvengerLever

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 01:13 PM

Well if his body was moved surreptitiously, as you claim, that contradicts the idea that Romans would set up gaurds for a body that was hid from them never mind the fact that any rock that was small enough to be moved in front of the cave is small enough to be moved away from the cave.


Joseph asked permission to take the body down from the cross, which was what I was reffering to. He and Nichodemus wrapped the body in linen and placed it in an empty tomb. The rock was massive. The Pharisees apparently knew the Jesus was supposed to rise from the dead so they placed a guard up there. The rock was freaking huge, probably took a lot of men to roll in front of the tomb. The rock was mysteriously rolled away and Jesus' body taken. The disciples couldn't have taken it, because they didn't even know he was supposed to rise from the dead (according to John)

When your making a claim, you do. For example, if I told you that at the Potsdam conference Jesus recommended killing 50,000 people as a warning, I would have to look it up, not you.


I'm just saying, the information is out there. Alak can look it up if he wants.

#120 Korhend

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Posted 14 June 2006 - 01:36 PM

I'm just saying, the information is out there. Alak can look it up if he wants.

As is the information that Jesus wanted to kill 50,000 people at Potsdam. You can totally look that up.

Edited by Korhend, 14 June 2006 - 01:37 PM.





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