502 replies to this topic

[Alakhriveion]

its like every generation, if the crowd believes that its worthless, then the gospel is worthless, so they banned it from the bible

im a christian but im not really sure if god is really all that real, i mean my sunday school teacher says all the parts in the bible fall into place. but why hasnt god come to us yet, why doesnt he speak to us? or guiding us to what is right and what is wrong? We've been waiting for jesus for 2006 years now and still not even a single sign that he will ever come

1,973 years by my count. But it don't matter.

[SteveT]

More like 20,000 (becuase you're a Jew and I don't feel like looking up when those particular prophesies were written, so I'll err on the side of caution and be wrong by a whole order of magnitude.

Edited by SteveT, 11 March 2006 - 04:14 PM.

[Toan]

I would love to hear your arguements for or against the truth of the Bible.

Remember that there are "shades-of-gray" involved in this issue: Some of the Bible may be historical, while other parts may be allegorical.

What do you believe and why?

Nope. I believe the Bible was written as a standard to live by, a book of morals, what one should do, and what one should not do, and is therefore not meant for literal interpretation. Everyone knows the person who sees something without fully understanding it, and proceeds to stretch the truth... i.e. A man gets hit by a car, this person turns around and says "DID YOU SEE THAT? Dude went 20 FEET in the AIR!" There's always the possibility that happened in parts of the Bible...

*shrug* At least the Roman Catholic Church agrees with me - one of the few points we agree on. http://www.timesonli...1811332,00.html

[Alakhriveion]

More like 20,000 (becuase you're a Jew and I don't feel like looking up when those particular prophesies were written, so I'll err on the side of caution and be wrong by a whole order of magnitude.

Well I was just talking about Jesus. But it's been 2937 years for us, give or take. We've kept busy.

[spunky-monkey]

I would love to hear your arguements for or against the truth of the Bible.

Remember that there are "shades-of-gray" involved in this issue: Some of the Bible may be historical, while other parts may be allegorical.

What do you believe and why?

Well the Bible is as real as you or me but it is written by man not God so I don't believe everything I hear in it. Recently my futile attempts to understand the Old and New Testament and use Jesus' teachings in everyday life is backfiring. I believe now that the Bible is causing me more harm than good because the more I read about God, the more frightening, terrible and wrathful "he" becomes to me - I can't relate to this image of God at all, with "his" angels slaughtering unfaithful children to the sending of lions to kill Prophets who disobeyed him once..well..for those reasons I find I can only enjoy to read about Jesus and Saint Paul nowadays.

And Relevations just scares the hell out of me.

[arunma]

im a christian but im not really sure if god is really all that real, i mean my sunday school teacher says all the parts in the bible fall into place. but why hasnt god come to us yet, why doesnt he speak to us? or guiding us to what is right and what is wrong? We've been waiting for jesus for 2006 years now and still not even a single sign that he will ever come

May I ask what you mean when you say "I'm a Christian." The reason I'm asking you this is because when the average American says that he is a Christian, what he means to say is: "Because my white European ancestors took their children to church, my parents have maintained the tradition, and since I go to church, I suppose that I can rightly be called a Christian, but I think that every culture has developed its own way to God through the religions of the world."

I don't mean to offend you. Indeed, I'm made quite a few unjustified assumptions about you, and I may be wrong to do so (if so, then please forgive me). But I have devoted an entire post to the three words of yours, "I'm a Christian," so I hope it is clear that this is an important issue to me. I mean to point out that the above statement is not the true definition of a Christian. Going to church, having Christian parents, or being a white American of European descent does not make anyone a Christian. A Christian is someone who is genuinely trusting in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sin, and receives him as the one true God and Savior. Is it possible to be a Christian who has doubts? Of course it is. But I think it may be a good idea for you to ask yourself how far your trust in Jesus Christ goes, and determine for yourself whether you have true faith in Jesus Christ, or if you just play the "church game," because your parents go to church, and feel its your cultural obligation to outwardly practice Christianity.

Now as to the other pertinent issue you mentioned, it is true that we have waited for the return of Christ for almost 2,000 years now. And we may wait another 1,000 years. This doesn't surprise me. The world has existed for 4.2 billion years, and humanity for over 100,000 years. Though God made an initial promise to Eve that her descendant (Christ) would destroy the work of the devil, it took this long before he first arrived. Likewise, it could take very well before the Second Advent, and this ought not to surprise anyone.

well..for those reasons I find I can only enjoy to read about Jesus and Saint Paul nowadays.

Well, that doesn't bother me too much. The Gospels and letters of the Apostles are probably the most important writings in the Bible. But I would recommend that you also read from James, Peter, John, and Jude. Paul is one of the great Apostles of the Bible, but by no means is he the only Apostle who had great things to say.

You may also want to read the Psalms of King David. These writings are not "scary" either. I think it may take a bit of spiritual maturity before you can learn to rejoice over the wrath of God, but through prayer and time in the Bible, this will certainly develop.

[Alakhriveion]

You may also want to read the Psalms of King David. These writings are not "scary" either. I think it may take a bit of spiritual maturity before you can learn to rejoice over the wrath of God, but through prayer and time in the Bible, this will certainly develop.

Babylon, you whore,
Blessed are those who tear your walls to their foundations
and burn your cities to the ground,
Who smash your children's heads against rocks. (Psalm 137)

Amen.

Edited by Alakhriveion, 12 March 2006 - 10:44 PM.

[SteveT]

Those kids had it coming.

They probably talked all through the bard's performance.

[arunma]

Those kids had it coming.

They probably talked all through the bard's performance.

Or maybe those rotten kids thought they were good Jews by virtue of having Jewish parents.

(See the post before my previous post.)

Edited by arunma, 13 March 2006 - 03:14 AM.

[spunky-monkey]

Well, that doesn't bother me too much. The Gospels and letters of the Apostles are probably the most important writings in the Bible. But I would recommend that you also read from James, Peter, John, and Jude. Paul is one of the great Apostles of the Bible, but by no means is he the only Apostle who had great things to say.

You may also want to read the Psalms of King David. These writings are not "scary" either. I think it may take a bit of spiritual maturity before you can learn to rejoice over the wrath of God, but through prayer and time in the Bible, this will certainly develop.

It's not quite about being spiritually mature. All my life everyone has spoon-fed this compassionate, loving, forgiving, understanding God (people here do it too). But when I actually read the Bible properly I found out my beliefs or rather assumptions of the one God were crushed and replaced now with a wrathful, vengeful, jealous God. On one hand you have the incarnation of evil (Satan) and on the other an all-powerful God with a terrible temper – the "no win scenario" if you will.

I think the teachings of Christians against the teachings of the Bible has actually isolated me (and possibly many others) from God, as we now fear/hate 'him', not love 'him' as we're supposed to. So I'm not spiritually mature/immature, I've become spiritually dead.

[arunma]

It's not quite about being spiritually mature. All my life everyone has spoon-fed this compassionate, loving, forgiving, understanding God (people here do it too). But when I actually read the Bible properly I found out my beliefs or rather assumptions of the one God were crushed and replaced now with a wrathful, vengeful, jealous God. On one hand you have the incarnation of evil (Satan) and on the other an all-powerful God with a terrible temper – the "no win scenario" if you will.

I think the teachings of Christians against the teachings of the Bible has actually isolated me (and possibly many others) from God, as we now fear/hate 'him', not love 'him' as we're supposed to. So I'm not spiritually mature/immature, I've become spiritually dead.

Actually, a good understanding of God's wrath is very important to properly understanding his love. God is not all love and no wrath, nor is he entirely wrathful and not loving. God loves with perfect love, and yet gives place to his own wrath.

If you're interested in learning more, my pastor has done a sermon on this. I can PM it to you in text or mp3 if you'd like.

[Reflectionist]

A scientific debate on the accuracy of the Bible.

Wow.

I think that's like, trying to scientifically prove that George Washington was the first president of the united states.

It just doesn't work like that.

Prophecy says the Bible is true.
Archaeology says the Bible is true.
History says the Bible is true.
and how many people's lives have been changed?

That wouldn't be possible if it weren't true.

[Fizzbit]

Wow, this thread has been dead for over a month.

As for the bible's truth, I think maybe a few aspects of it could be true, but overly exaggerated.

[Reflectionist]

Well, I haven't been here in a few months, so I wouldn't know.

My apologies.

[Korhend]

and how many people's lives have been changed?

That wouldn't be possible if it weren't true.

It does follow that Changing peoples live = true
The Secret Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion have effected peoples lives, so those are all true to?

Archaeology says the Bible is true.
History says the Bible is true.

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, I cannot believe in the bible because it contradicts history and anthropology...many, many times.

Edited by Korhend, 30 April 2006 - 06:14 PM.

[Reflectionist]

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, I cannot believe in the bible because it contradicts history and anthropology...many, many times

Then, don't believe in that bible. What does this have to do with Christianity? And....isn't anthropology the study of bones or something like that? Is this the start of an evolution debate? I've seen pictures that some scientist drew that made the fetuses look all the same.... but the pictures that were taken of them they all looked different....

It does follow that Changing peoples live = true
The Secret Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion have effected peoples lives, so those are all true to?

Did the Secret Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion affect 24,437,959 people as of 2001?

Edited by Reflectionist, 05 May 2006 - 10:46 PM.

[Doopliss]

Envy me, people! I'm an Atheist since I was 13.

Well, back to topic. I believe absolutely everything supernatural described in the Bible to be false. It is a history book, but I wouldn't trust a lot on it because obviously some events were modified to fit its religious purpose. As a philosophy book, it is nice, though I disagree with some of its teachings.

However, the lack of reliability on the Bible doesn't disprove the existence of God.

[Reflectionist]

Envy me, people! I'm an Atheist since I was 13.

Well, back to topic. I believe absolutely everything supernatural described in the Bible to be false. It is a history book, but I wouldn't trust a lot on it because obviously some events were modified to fit its religious purpose. As a philosophy book, it is nice, though I disagree with some of its teachings.

However, the lack of reliability on the Bible doesn't disprove the existence of God.

Funny how you can state your beliefs without actually refuting the Bible, offering up any proof, or anything of the sort. Whereas I have all the proof I need in an Inch and a Half thick book with two millimeter letters, in two collumns on each page from cover to cover.

Also, that's like the fifth time you've said in this thread that you're atheist. We get it. You're atheist. When you just slam it down our throats like that you make me think you're not comfortably an atheist and you're really just doubting that you are. That's not a good thing. It shows weakness.

Good try.... but that is not how you debate. That is how you get pwned.

And I don't envy you, that's just sad. Anyone who does envy you is sad also.

Edited by Reflectionist, 05 May 2006 - 10:45 PM.

[Doopliss]

Funny how you can state your beliefs without actually refuting the Bible, offering up any proof, or anything of the sort. Whereas I have all the proof I need in an Inch and a Half thick book with two millimeter letters, in two collumns on each page from cover to cover.

Actually, those are respected texts I have read. You haven't answered to any of the arguments of my last posts

Also, that's like the fifth time you've said in this thread that you're atheist. We get it. You're atheist. When you just slam it down our throats like that you make me think you're not comfortably an atheist and you're really just doubting that you are. That's not a good thing. It shows weakness.

Sorry, but this thread is 4 months long. Pathetically weak as I am, I can't remember how many times I have posted that I am an atheist. I do that because sometimes the reader could interpret that I'm theist.

Good try.... but that is not how you debate. That is how you get pwned.

You have now scared me to death. Now I'm seriously thinking on abandoning controversial permanently.

[Goose]

Wait up guys. I should let the mods do this, but I like interfering. They know that by now. Keep the personal attacks down to a minimum, in other words, dont do it.

Being Christian and reading the bible is about having faith. We can never really know about whether the bible is historically accurate, but we can never really know if anything is historically accurate, because history is written by the victors. Its about faith, and if you have faith you will believe in the bible and what it can teach you about God and about yourself, and if you need proof, then your going to have a pointless and endless search.

You gotta have faith..

[Oberon Storm]

Also, that's like the fifth time you've said in this thread that you're atheist. We get it. You're atheist. When you just slam it down our throats like that you make me think you're not comfortably an atheist and you're really just doubting that you are. That's not a good thing. It shows weakness.

The same could be said of some Christians.

[Reflectionist]

The same could be said of some Christians.

well, those Christians are just as egotistical. Not everyone is perfect, I was just pointing something out.

It's pretty shallow to say that all Christians are bad because of what a few people who say they are Christians Act like (*cough*BannyHenn*cough*)

[Oberon Storm]

I didn't say bad. I didn't say all. If I gave that impression I'm sorry. But there are some Christians that feel the need to shove that fact in other people's face. There the same people that need Wal-Mart to validate their faith. I didn't think it fair to pick on the Atheist for it. But then for all I know you might think the same thing of anyone that wishes to cram a fact like that down everyones throat. So maybe me saying anything was unwarranted.

[Reflectionist]

Well, don't worry, I say stuff that offends people all the time. But that's just who I am. Emotion is hard to convey in Type, so, it generally gets misunderstood a lot....

People like to mistake curiosity for word-bending rhetorical questions, and Love for Hatred. The brightest light casts the darkest shadow, well, that happens sometimes. Oh well.

[arunma]

Unfortunately, finals week has caused me to temporarily shirk my mod duties (OK, for about a week and a half, but I had papers to write too, and I'm still not done with finals week, by the way). Anyway, everyone stop personally attacking everyone else, or I'll close this thread and beat y'all with an ugly stick.

[Reflectionist]

I've been beaten with Teh Ugleh Stick many a time....

[Alakhriveion]

People, People, talk has swayed from the main topic, The Bible is true, if you really wanted to find out, deep down in your heart, you would find that not only is it spiritually true, but also historically.

If I look deep down in my heart, Batman is our Lord and Savior. Let's stick to the empirical, or at least the intersubjective.

[Korhend]

wow, looking into your heart to establish historic fact, that way beats the method historians have been using for the past 2,000 years.

[Alakhriveion]

Look, it may not be the best way to find truth, but it's the only way to find truthiness (That which feels true).